http://dbd.game/killswitch
I'm seeing people say Unbreakable should be base kit
Let's discuss.
The argument I've seen is with how badly the "Go next" system is being implemented, it heavily now assists and encourages slugging, as the option for the hatch is basically gone. Hatch is almost non existent now if the person who is 3rd to die isn't on last hook due to it taking nearly a minute+ to void yourself to the abyss, and the killers have no incentive to hook said 3rd to last survivor if they can just leave them on the ground for a 5 minute hunt. And since snitch pigeons (Crows) now GPS the killer to your location when a survivor isn't doing something like running or a gen for more than 45 seconds,(Hiding) it makes the hatch basically a non existent option.(Something killers have been wanting removed anyway for a long time). It's not supposed to be a guaranteed escape method, but it shouldn't be that rough as an option.
Since slugging %, something the devs have been stating is a strategy for a long time now, is going to be so prominent in this new meta, what are your thoughts on some people thinking/saying unbreakable needs to be base kit like in 2v8? And if not, let's say it's going to be a perk that becomes near mandatory, how long before it's complained about until that gets nerfed where it will be some prerequisite of "Must have X amount of gens done or be the last survivor to activate" kind of nerf.
Comments
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unbreakable being base is horrifically broken. i ask you what is a killer supposed to do to pressure if you're a m1 killer and the gens are flying because there are certain situations where you don't have time to hook someone
also i'll get downvoted hard for this but i don't feel bad when killers slug for the 4k since i've also been in that situation and understand it
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True and survivors can force slug by body blocking or going under palet, or going down in the open and 2 flash lights just circling around killer with no range,dash thats hard situation not to slug because if you pick up chances survivor will get saved is huge, or when they are running around one highly progressed gen and you must slug or they will get the gen. Giving base unbreakable is the same as giving the killer base corupt/dead lock.
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I agree that unbreakable shouldn't be basekit, but I also don't think we should just dismiss the idea of a solution to slugging for the 4k. Either an abandon option, or an option to bleed out faster.
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I think bleed out faster is the go to here, people have suggested it a lot, might as well try it. If people use it to grief well roll it back, if it proves usefull keep it.
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i slug for the 4k and i also had people dc when i was letting them go the abandon option just made go next worse
i'd be fine with the bleedout option but as we've seen with abandon right now survivors just abuse it
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I'm fine how currently abandon works, when everybody is slugged. Giving an additional abandon option or faster bleedout, would just open another potential go-next problem or give killers another incentive to go for that option.
Normal basekit Unbreakable would be kinda abusable or might even counter certain ranged down situations. Also there are situations, where a killer needs to slug survivors. The problem is, when somebody excessivly strategly slugs. And I think the best approach to prevent such situations without messing with tactical slugging too much would be, to add an additional timer for survivors, after reaching maximum recovery, which isn't influenced by perks.
If that timer is gone up, they can recover to stand up. Yeah, that is kinda basekit Unbreakable, but isn't. The timer needs to be long enough so it's not beneficial for survivors to abuse, but also prevents extrem scenarios of strategical slugging, which drags out matches.3 -
I feel like if a certain amount of people have been slugged then at least one should be able to stand up freely. Slugging as a final tactic is one thing, slugging and leaving 3 or 4 people on the ground for long periods while there's still 4 to 5 gens not done is ridiculous. What's the point of even playing a game if you want it over in 30 seconds and give opponents zero chance?
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As long as things like sabo/flashlight/pallet saves are a thing, slugging is going to have a place in the game.
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The game needs comeback mechanics for Survivors and ways to avoid bottlenecking. It doesn't have to be a rehash of what we already have, but it does have to be something. Otherwise you have our current problem of most trials ending in steamrolls and stalemates.
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I think you'd need something considerably weaker than Unbreakable, and you'd need to do something to limit hook denial a bit more before it could work.
One thing I've had in mind for a while is that survivors should be able to pick themselves up at a generator after fully recovering, with a lengthy animation. This would also add crawl time, so it'd be terribly inefficient in terms of time, but it could do something about slug-locks.
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I think its fine if theres still 4 survivors alive and all slugged if the oldest down could get up automatically, that way certain playstyles like Iri flesh bubba or hit and run nurse wouldn't exist in correlation with certain perks like Forced Hesi and infectious
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I think a base-kit unbreakable would be too abusable, but I also disagree with the idea that slugging is not in need of some kind of tweaking in its current state. ( i could go on about why I think this but for time sake I'll leave it out ) That being said, I think slugging is important because it is a counter. A counter to flashlights, sabo's etc. But slugging as an alternate win condition is different than slugging as a counter.
I think that the speed in which survivors recover should be increased based upon the proximinity in which the killer is to them. The farther the killer is from the slugged survivor, the faster they recover. They will still need someone to pick them up at the end, but the point is that if the killer is trying to slug the whole team, and eveyrone is spread out (which is the counter to slugging) then it comes with much more risk. But if you're slugging because a flashlight is nearby, therefore you are hovering by the slug, then nothing changes. And if a group of survivors all get slugged because they were all grouped up, the killer can still take advantage of that kind of mistake.
Essentially it would work like the anti-camp, but reverse. The killer is in complete control if the mechanic even comes into play. If they stay near the slug then literally nothing changes. But if they leave the slug out of a set of perimeters, then the mechanic will kick in. Again, it just increases recovery time, it does not grant UB base.
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The only way the killer could be in complete control of slugging, is if killers were given a guaranteed way to hook survivors, that had zero counterplay from survivors.
But survivors don't want killers to have a guaranteed way to avoid slugging. They want to be able to force a killer to slug, and then punish the killer for slugging.
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The same has been said about every meta defining survivor perk. Be it SC, BT, DS or DH...
Its people who wanna get the strongest stuff without using a perkslot for it.
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I've never liked the idea of base kit unbreakable, and I'm genuinely curious what situation people think this would be good in.
For killers, there are some situations where slugging is the right call. Sabo plays, boil over, having a lurker with a flashlight nearby, are all valid reasons to leave someone on the ground (or drop them). Base kit UB removes that.
But this also doesn't help survivors. The most common scenario is the meta "slug for the 4k". So what good is base kit unbreakable doing in this case? At best, you're just prolonging an already lost game, and it doesn't change the fact that you can't really get gens done with just two people left. At worst, you have the killer playing whack a mole for 4ish minutes while the slug bleeds out, pops up to get instantly slugged again.
The only case this might help is if the killer is just slugging excessively at the start of the game, and never hooking. But there has to be a better solution that also takes the other two scenarios into account also.
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The important thing is figuring out if the killer is slugging excessively even though they could have easily hooked those survivors, or if the killer is slugging excessively because they don't think they can safely and reliably get those survivors to a hook.
Because some survivors will try to deny hooks even though it's the start of the game. I've seen many survivors try to pallet save or flashlight save, when there are 5 gens left, and the killer has zero hooks.
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You and I have discussed this topic in depth before, and while we’ve never quite reached common ground, I’m absolutely open to continuing the conversation.
First, I want to be clear: a slugged survivor is always better for the killer than a standing one. It doesn’t matter how or why they were slugged, even if they threw themselves at the killer or “forced” the situation. they’re now off their feet, unable to repair, rescue, cleanse, heal, or do anything else that advances the objective. Whether it was tactical on the survivor’s end or not, they are effectively removed from progress.
From past conversations, your position seemed to be that because survivors can “force” slugging (bodyblocking, hook trades, sabo, etc.) that automatically makes any adjustment to slugging mechanics invalid. But I disagree with that logic because we don’t apply it consistently.
What I’m proposing doesn’t punish the killer for slugging, and it doesn’t remove control. It just encourages smarter, more strategic use of slugging particularly when using it as a win condition versus a defensive counter.
Tactical slugging to counter flashlight saves, sabo plays, or force a trade is essential and should absolutely remain viable. That’s why I suggested a system where nothing changes if the killer remains near the slug. There’s no punishment there, no loss of power. But if the killer walks away and leaves multiple survivors bleeding out all over the map, that should carry some kind of risk.
This isn’t about removing slugging. It’s about drawing a line between tactical, reactive slugging and exploitative, drawn-out slugging that stalls the match for everyone involved. It’s similar to how anti-camp mechanics don’t remove camping, they just limit excessive camping like face-camping. The same principle applies here. That’s all I’m advocating for here too, nuance not removal.In the first 2v8 there was absolutely no reason to slug. Killers had complete control in just the way you’re describing. No flashlight, no sabo, no pallet. Complete control over the hook 100%, no chance of failure. And slugging still happened. It happened often enough that in the second version they had to make changes. I simply can’t agree to this idea that if killers didn’t risk “losing” a hook for a slugged survivor that they wouldn’t slug, and I can’t agree to it because I have quite literally experienced the opposite. The past has proved that to be incorrect.
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Slugging itself is the exactly same thing as tunneling except it takes less time. You are removing someone from the game. And with how strong changing the game from a 4v1 to a 3v1 is, people are going to abuse it to reach the path of least resistance, especially if they are of the kind that "need" to win. It doesn't even remotely make it okay, but people will do it even if they get literally nothing for it except the "win" on the endgame screen.
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