http://dbd.game/killswitch
Thanks to the new afk system, slugging in 2v1 is stronger than ever
No abandon button, no way to suicide on hook, and you have to finish totems or chests or otherwise you get crows.
Its effectively a free 2k unless you manage to sneakily do a totem or a chest.
I really hope this means slugging will effectively become non-viable soon through means of basekit self-pickups(there are balanced ways to implement that), or the AFK system needs to be effectively disabled once someone is slugged.
Comments
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Yep, if there are two survivors left and one is on the floor the survivor on the floor should be able to pick themselves up and you shouldn't get crows.
30 -
that’s a good thing
-48 -
People keep this energy for "free escapes" but not for "free kills" in EGC when certain Killers can just sit in front of the hook and get a Kill because the Survivors physically cannot rescue (vice versa). "Free for me, but not for thee," I guess. :/
But for a second, let me just play around with this idea.
If Survivors did not have the Hatch to escape from, Survivors would instantly give up at the drop of a feather because there is no reason to stick a match out if you were in any losing position. Furthermore, you would significantly raise Killrates, and BHVR would nerf Killers to compensate for matches being too miserable for Survivors.
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so basically you want a guaranteed 4k?
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Well they did get a 2k already. Seems unfair not to give them the other two.
-23 -
That's all they ever want. They want every game handed to them on a silver platter with no effort to fuel their power fantasy and ego. It's the entire reason why tunneling even exists to begin with, and why we end up in these 2v1 unwinnable situations. Killer mains demand they deserve to win because they play the role with less players. Purely narcissistic though process.
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If they got rid of the hatch, I hope they remove the pity kills killers constantly achieve by face camping since the developers think it's okay to be horrible and get a 1k by staring at the hook in the end game. Completely undeserved handholding if the hatch is too much to bear.
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It tilts me a bit when I see comments saying face-camping in EGC guarantees 1 kill without any skill, where Survivors can easily make the rescue as long as everyone's still alive.
As for slugging for 4k, I don't do it myself, but I can see why people do it, and I don't blame the killers. It's just the way hatch is designed.
You guys really shouldn't blame killer players for making the optimal play. Blame devs.
-17 -
Nah, I blame the Killer if they decide to waste my time, because they think they did not win hard enough when they have 2 Survivors dead, one slugged and are still going for the fourth one at 5 Gens. Which is exactly what happened yesterday against a Vecna. Sure, our team played like #########, the Killer got a 12 Hook-game at 5 Gens. But is it really necessary to leave me on the ground for minutes? Even if the last Survivor would have gotten the Hatch (they did not, they got found eventually), nobody could deny that the Killer won.
In general, Hatch Escapes are pity escapes and I personally dont care about them. I dont care if the last Survivor gets the Hatch or if I find it, it does not feel that I lost anything as Killer or that I won anything as Survivor.
The only thing which I would blame the Devs for is that they dont allow to abandon in such a situation. But the Killer is actively wasting the time of the Survivor on the ground, just because they want to win more in a game they already clearly won.
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Sounds like you didn't earn it if you only killed half the team.
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Pretty sure Hatch does count for escape rates and kill rates.
If we remove Hatch, expect some KR's to push well over 70%, possibly nearing 80. Killers would be massively nerfed across the board.
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i made a similar post talking about this and got downvoted 🤣
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This is the one big thing they needed to make sure was accounted for in this afk crows system and they failed hard.
People have been asking them to "do something about slugging for the 4k" since hatch was reworked years ago. Apparently they decided it should just be two guaranteed kills instead.
BHVR seems to be completely not understanding that the survivor role only works if the players have hope. This entire patch has been "we're taking any chance you have away in many situations, and also here's a punishment for feeling hopeless".
At this point, it's just shouting into a vacuum. I've personally tried to point out that hiding for up to 6-7 minutes is valid gameplay in this situation (4 minutes of bleed out, a minute or so of hatch search, and 2 minutes of door mind games). For years, on these forums.
And that's literally the only play available when gens still remain here. Now there's no choice, no play except dying.
But hey, apparently being sneaky, or stealthy isn't the gameplay the devs want. They listened to people who want survivors to stand in the open next to gens (but ideally not touching the gens) so the killer can find them easily. That's the system we got.
Pretty good job so far.
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What i've experienced unfortunately with this forum, is it hates survivor players with a passion, i'd say about 80/20 with 80 being the hating and 20 being the liking. (This could be hyperbolic by a little…) Anything in defense of survivors gets downvoted into oblivion. Regardless how constructive or true. I'm a killer main, and even I see how the flaws of this new system are effecting this game. Specifically with the morality of survivor players. Without Survivors, there is no game. Without Killers, there is no game. I think both sides are valid and have merit to their complaints and arguments, but it seems this forum spends more time saying "Get good" to anything survivor based in terms of criticism towards something that they feel they do not like.
My thoughts. AFK crows take the literal stealth aspect out of this game. It feels like it's not a viable option anymore, SPECIFICALLY WHEN it's the last 2 survivors left. I'm curious is more survivors are going to start shifting to Sole survivor and other perks to assist with this change now…I have more I can say, but i'll refrain for now 😅12 -
Exactly. And the bad thing is that it is the only viable play the Survivor who is not slugged has - stealth around, wait for the Hook or the Bleedout, hope for Hatch. There is nothing else to be done, unless there is only one Gen left and it is almost completed or so. But even then I would say it is doubtful that it would lead to an escape for anyone.
But the changes just made it nearly impossible to do this. I can understand why they wanted to remove hiding with 2 Survivors left (even tho, you can also argue there that this is the only thing those two Survivors really have left, hoping that the other person dies first). But it makes more sense to do something against it.
But not doing anything more than just making slugging for the 4K more miserable… I dont know. Yes, there are Anti-Slugging measurements coming, but those can be as late as December (which would be my guess, since many QoL-changes for Phase 1 also only arrived at the latest point). And if they are even good or just something like that you can bleed out faster… Who knows.
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Yeah keep blaming Killers. That's what you always do anyway.
-10 -
Sorry, but the Killer can decide whether they want to take their win immediatly, have AT LEAST a 3K with a pity Escape for the last Survivor (or a 4K anyway, since the Killer has all the advantages to find the Hatch, the Survivor can basically only get lucky) OR to waste everyones time for a game they already clearly won.
This is a decision the Killer has to make and if they decide for the second option - yes, I blame the Killer, the person who did the decision. Who should I blame instead? God? My neighbor?
Look, I brought you arguments and you ignore them with a one-liner. If you dont have anything against my arguments, just say it.
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hatch dynamic is indeed awful and needs a rework
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Yikes. There's actually the full game footage in the yt comments
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The game is now a chore with this new afk system. They want to just do the objectives with no in between. Removed stealth and more than half of the perks become useless.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1lg4rxl/videoproof_that_the_new_afkrule_is_insanly_bad/
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I've said it many times already and I'll say it again: I loathe the new AFK system. Truly, and with my whole chest, I hate it. But I will try to make clear the reasons why.
First of all, the very name is wrong. Nothing about this system has anything to do with players being AFK. If a player is sprinting across the map, they are not AFK. They should not be getting AFK crows. To refer to it as an anti-AFK system is completely disingenuous. It is a system that effectively punishes survivors for not playing the game in a certain way. That's all.
Which is another thing: this 'AFK' system inherently targets and punishes a specific playstyle, one that up until now has been a key aspect of gameplay. Stealth is literally built into the game design as a core element—that's why we have stealth perks, that's why non-stealthy actions (like running, fast vaulting, throwing pallets) is punished with consequences that alert the killer to the survivors location. That's a fundamental aspect of gameplay. If you aren't stealthy, if you just sprint the entire time, throw pallets, fast vault, blow up the generators, the killer will find you, and you will die.
But this patch does nothing but punish survivors for being stealthy.
It also punishes inexperience. Because you know who is most likely to hide in a locker a little too long or be a little unsure, a little skittish? New players. Just like the anti 'go next' system was disproportionately falsely flagging new players, the 'AFK' system does the same. This is a game that already has an incredibly high entry skill threshold. It's not an easy game to be a newbie at. The tutorial is limited and terrible, most perks and add on's are poorly explained, if really explained at all. So of course, new players are going to be more hesitant, and they will get crows, and those crows will get them killed.
It also encourages quick, panicked action over any meaningful strategy or gameplay. Because you have to do something quickly (but only the right things, because many actions don't actually count as 'playing' the game according to the 'AFK' crows) or you'll essentially be snitched on to the killer.
Also, for myself and for friends I've spoken to who I play the game with pretty regularly, some of whom have thousands of hours (way more than me!) have expressed that the changes to the 'AFK' system make games feel stressful and anxiety inducing—and not in a fun, tense, horror way. In a 'I'm so overly concerned about whether or not I'm doing enough quickly enough or doing the right things in order to avoid getting crows that I'm genuinely not having very much fun'.
So in conclusion: I think the system should be taken out back and shot. When the devs have come up with a functional system for dealing with this incredibly overblown issue of 'AFK' players, one that has been playtested extensively before going live, I'll happily give it a go and hear them out on how it could be good for the game.
But the 'AFK' system that launched with 9.0.0? That ain't it.
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Slugging for the 4k, such a fun gameplay moment…
7 -
and killers still can proxy camp, not engage in chase, not kick gens. Just walk around for 60-70 seconds and have zero penalty, because corrupt, dead lock, dms and pain res has done their job for them. The path devs are bringing dbd is just 2019 in reverse.
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I've been saying this for years. Why can't the person being slugged get built in unbreakable when there are 2 people left. Please make this happen, BHVR.
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Linked videos with proof. Of course no response smh
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I hope you have the same balance guidelines for phase 1 and phase 2.
Because you think the phase 1 survivor changes “should only punish extreme behaviors”, I hope you also think the phase 2 killer changes “should only punish extreme behaviors”
Because you think the phase 1 survivor changes “should err on the false negative side”, I hope you also think the phase 2 killer changes “should err on the false negative side”
-7 -
Do you want them to say "YES I HOPE KILLERS GET BANNED FOR TUNNELING" with these posts?
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Yes, I do.
And I said as much in this thread and elsewhere. Repeatedly:
This same mentality applies to camping, tunneling, and slugging btw… situationally and in moderation these are gameplay, it's only problematic when they are used excessively - just like stealth
I've also mentioned this for years, that camping, tunneling, slugging, and stealth are all situational tactics that have a time and a place in the game. Yet all of these can be problematic when taken to extremes. So when the time is "always" and the place is "everywhere", then players are likely using these excessively and we should address that. Ideally, we should address that without significantly impacting those situations where these are actually valid whenever possible.
That is a consistent attitude, and one I will continue to repeat.
That being said:
The devs also need to be consistent with their responses to all of these. Which is, honestly, the only stance that actually matters to the game.
They looked at excessive stealth, and ignored all of my (and others) feedback regarding "here are situations you should consider when implementing new AFK crows and go next" and took the hardest line they could've possibly taken. They've effectively deleted stealth, even situations where stealth is valid, or the only correct play.
So, just to have my thoughts out there again: tunneling and camping, particularly at end game (where it's basically the only play), is not what most people complain about. That's a valid situation to camp and tunnel. Any "anti-" solution to these should ideally target camping or tunneling from the start of the game (colloquially "at 5 gens"), but leave end game alone. What that looks like I'm not sure, but I'm not a dev.
Slugging, similarly, has valid situations: sabo or boil over plays, another survivor lurking nearby for a flashlight or pallet save, or even an obvious DS play, are all valid reasons to slug someone for a bit. Excessive slugging, imo, is playing the match by slugging everyone from the start of the game with no intention of hooking. And I'd also personally prefer if any slugging solution considered shortening the "slug for the 4k" situation, which is just simply a waste of everyone's time (I've recommended the slug having the option to bleed out faster, or simply die on the ground after hitting "find help" in the past, which doesn't change the game's outcome). Again, what that looks like, I'm not entirely sure. But any solution they implement should take all of this into account.
Now,
In order for the devs to be consistent with their opinion and approach for the game (the only opinion that actually matters in the long run), one of two things must happen. Either:
- Anti-camp, anti-tunnel, and anti-slug in phase 2 are also implemented in a ham-fisted, broad manner in the same way that "anti-hiding" is, right now, on live. That would also effectively delete all three of these from the game, including the valid cases. I think it's a terrible idea, but it's the only way for them to be consistent with their approach.
- They immediately rework the anti-hiding and go next systems entirely to allow for valid reasons for survivors to hide. This, at minimum, should include the slug for the 4k issue, where hiding for up to 4 minutes is valid stealth with any gens remaining. Then, in phase 2, implement reasonable anti-camp, anti-tunnel, and anti-slugging measures that also take situational gameplay into account.
I should hope that every single person, regardless of which "side" you are on, should agree with me that #2 is the correct approach. It requires BHVR to fix this debacle they've created and not take player agency completely away from players. All of these tactics (camping, tunneling, slugging, and hiding) have a place and can be good gameplay, when not used excessively. We need to target the excessive use, and not impact the tactical, situational use.
If anyone thinks that #1 is the correct approach, then I really have nothing to say other than that they are wrong.
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You sound like a angry survivor main. The crows for to quickly I will agree with that but you just sound angry and narcissistic in a survivor way. This needs to stop being a us vs them and just agree that the crows are a problem without making it a fight
-4 -
"Angry and narcissistic" for… not wanting a VIDEO GAME to be unfun? I play 50/50, so I'm by no means a "survivor main". This has always been an "us vs them" fight and it never will stop being that way until the devs stop showing blatant favoritism. At first its survivors, killers get jaded and hate the game, and then it flip flops until we're at today, where the game is nearly 10 years old, people are sick of favoritism, they are sick of being left out to rot over and over again, sometimes for multiple years at a time. Killers have been receiving things more and more that just makes them stronger and stronger, not even from a perk standpoint, these are innate gameplay elements that exist to punish survivors. Both sides deserve to have fun an a chance at the win, the crow system in of itself is half baked, but it is absolutely insane to not say its in the killers favor.
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this
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The problem is that survivors want to be able to weaponize the phase 2 changes.
For example, part of the anti-tunneling changes, should be adding intentional bodyblocking to the list of conspicuous actions that deactivate anti-tunnel perks.
The goal should be to reduce the issues on both sides of the game. Excessive camping, tunneling, and slugging should be addressed. But survivors that try to weaponize, and force these situations, should be addressed too.
Because if we’re going to claim that slugging isn’t fun, we should also address survivors that try to force the killer to excessively slug, because that isn’t fun either.
-4 -
It really isn't that deep for anyone with other hobbies besides this one video game…
-7 -
An incredibly important aspect of hatch that I never see brought up and that BHVR themselves even fail to realize is that it's an alternative means to progress the trial. It's an anti-bottleneck mechanic.
When the trial comes to a total standstill—too many gens for too few survivors—something has to happen to propel it forward. Before hatch was nerfed, there was a race to find it and escape or close it. Either outcome moved the trial forward. Even the standoff provided gameplay because it promoted competition. Currently, it spawns too late and with almost zero interaction to be of any practical use. Either you're lucky or you're not.
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To be kinda fair, no one is as entitled as killers slugging for a 4k in a 2v1 with 3-5 gens remaining. And they are not uncommon.
Those same killers love to call survivors entitled, but the only survivors that even come close to that same type of behaviour are survivors who bring 4 commodius with BNP and Wirespool, while running Streetwise, Built to Last, DS and either DH or Unbreakable will stand 2 minutes at the edge of the exitgate and wait untill the very last second to escape. And those are rare encounters.
Killers in general are more entitled about kills, than survivors are about escapes. Most killers can guarantee a 1k once EGC starts for a free kill. The chances of getting a 0k are extremely low and require mistakes on the killer's end. Yet "survivors shouldnt get a free escape through hatch" despite just based on mobility alone(not including other factors like spawn knowledge, offerings), Killers should find hatch 60% of the time.
That's a free kill 95% of the time, vs a free "escape" 40% of the time. Imagine if the 1k camping in the EGC didnt count as a kill in the same way hatch doesnt count as an escape, what would you expect the outrage to be? Because I am 100% certain that if I were to open a discussion about making that 1 kill count as a draw, it would only get hate. Even though survivors are 100% more cool with giving the killer a kill if they had a hard time.
And we're not even talking about bleedouts. I have literally suggested in the past that, since hooks respawn now, a bleed-out should work like hatch and count as an MMR draw, and people got angry about it. It doesnt affect the amount of deaths, it just doesnt increase your MMR.
So take that context with you, I agree that their wording was a bit aggressive, but Killers literally look at the 65% killrate and be like "yeah, thats fair" and a killer who has a 55% killrate is considered trash and not worth playing. Despite a 50% killrate being "truly" balanced. Killer mains, generalizing, literally expect to win on average or else they get loud and complain.7 -
"For example, part of the anti-tunneling changes, should be adding intentional bodyblocking to the list of conspicuous actions that deactivate anti-tunnel perks."
No, it should not, but flashlights and flashbangs(or the event versions of those) SHOULD deactivate it. Saving someone from being picked up is as impactful as sitting on a gen. Blinding a killer who is breaking a pallet while chasing you can have as much impact to the chase as DS would have. So no to bodyblocking, that's risk-reward. But using a flashlight should be added to conspicious actions.
As for weaponizing it, you rarely can actually weaponize it. There is no way for a survivor to "force" a killer to excessively slug. You can still hook the survivor, you can just decide to eat that DS because there are 3 gens remaining and if you have time to tunnel, you have time to eat a DS.
When the counterplay to "intentional bodyblocking with basekit bt" is literally "wait 10 seconds, or hit ASAP", you shouldnt really complain about it much. Because killers "weaponize" the basement stairwell to down someone who just got unhooked from the basement, which is worse in that the unhooked survivor has 0 agency on being unhooked nor being hooked in the basement.
Where the killer has agency to just m1 the bodyblocking survivor before they start standing still to waste 2 seconds while the survivor now has to waste 10 seconds to get rid of the deepwound or gets downed, also wasting time.2 -
I would even go so far as to spawn in hatch once 2 survivors are remaining and one of them gets the "FIND HELP" text on their screen.
That way, the killer only has 28 seconds before hatch spawns in after downing a survivor in a 2v1, and is forced to trigger EGC (potentially triggering Adrenaline on the downed survivor) and gives the remaining survivor the ability to open the exit gates instead, or re-open hatch in case they happen to have a key.
It gives killers at least 28 seconds to find and down the next survivor, or go back within 28 seconds to pick up and hook the downed survivor.
That way, the remaining survivor only has to wait 90 seconds in total, which is still more than plenty of time for the killer to locate that survivor, instead of the 240 seconds it would otherwise take.5 -
clearly the crow just wanted to help the poor blind spirit…
2 -
If you look at it from another angle, you won't need to bleed out as long because the killer will find the 4th faster.
-4 -
If you look at it from another angle, spawning in hatch at 2 survivors basekit will avoid the situation entirely. Slugging at 3 survivors isnt nearly as impactful and the game can still progress. Kill the 2nd survivor and now you are forced to find hatch first and start EGC early.
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Wanting a better experience with an ever-changing product you’ve invested your time, money, and effort into shouldn’t be shamed. People are allowed to care and it's the only reason this game has lasted this long.
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I can understand why it was nerfed, but I've thought it was excessive from day one. The old formula was great, but I agree that locking it to only apply once 2 survivors remain would be a good idea (if 3 gens have been completed, it spawns open, otherwise it's closed). Keep charges on key, but make them less punishing to encourage use.
0 -
Being overly invested in anything is an 'at your own risk' issue. Expecting others to know what you're feeling can't always happen as chances are, they're not as invested as you in something that doesn't effect anything at all in their day to day lives. Real world problems.
-8 -
I'd actually invert it tho, if 3 gens or more are remaining, it spawns open (one survivor is downed, the other survivor isnt), if there are 2 or less, it spawns closed, but still spawns in. Because in a 2v1 with 2 gens remaining, the possibility of finishing the final 2 gens still exists. Its small, but its there. Where with 3 gens or more, finishing gens is mathematically basically impossible.
At the very least, both the killer and survivor will know where hatch would be in a 2v1 with 2 gens remaining, so the killer can choose to hook the survivor and rush to the hatch to close it, while with 3 gens or more remaining, the killer better hooks before "FIND HELP" appears for the slugged survivor.2 -
As someone who does theatre(which includes making props, clothes, set pieces, song, dance, acting and more), plays multiple games, does miniature building and other hobbies, your take is bad.
We do hobbies, play games, for all sorts of reasons. That includes just finding a little bit of happiness when life is depressing. It includes finding friends when you have a hard time doing so in real life. It includes finally feeling validated when you've felt berated in real life. It is a piece of comfort in life. And people are in their entire right if their piece of comfort in life is no longer giving them the comfort it used to give them.
There is a reason why people say DBD used to be more fun before SBMM, because matches were more fluctuating. Sometimes you had amazing opponents you simply couldnt beat, but still had a fun time because you learned something new. Sometimes you had opponents that couldnt beat you, but both still had a fun time because you could do some silly things that you probably use even nowadays that newer players simply cannot learn in publics anymore.
And sure, sometimes there were sweaty opponents that would do their best to make the game as miserable as possible for you, but those were in the minority. SBMM has made this part of DBD quite common across the board.
Killers who will claim every single patch that gens go too fast, despite having record breaking killrates. Survivors who will claim every patch that Myers is too strong due to tombstone piece(which, the addon still needs a nerf BHVR, just move the movementspeed reduction from scratched mirror and slap it on tombstone piece, nerfs tombstone, buffs scratched mirror, win win. Please and thank you), despite him arguably being the weakest killer overall.
The fact that you made an account on forums and are posting on forums makes you as "obsessed" with the game as most others here.6 -
Everyone playing is “invested” to some degree. Pretending that only other people are “too invested” is just a way to dismiss concerns without actually addressing them. Caring about something you’ve spent real time and money on isn’t the problem. Acting like people shouldn’t care- while still engaging in the same space kind of is.
Not everyone cares about sports either, (myself being one of them) or maybe they only play casually. But that doesn’t mean athletes or fans are wrong to care about fairness or quality. Someone could look at the Super Bowl and say, “Wow, people are way too invested in this game.” And it's fine to have an opinion because everyone is entitled to one. But that doesn’t mean nobody should care just because you don’t.
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but that is exactly what will happen. Slugging three can take longer but it is far easier than slugging four. You are more likely to have someone bleed out but that still a death right?
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People playing could just be playing. It isn't always that deep. Most video games can never be 100% fair either. Expecting them to be is setting yourself up for disappointment.
-3 -
It tilts me a bit seeing comments like this, expecting the game to be balanced around 4 man swf. You have 0 idea about random lobbies, especially with crossplay. Some survs just tunnel corner gens resulting in 3 gen situation. Even if they unhook you next to killer, it doesn't mean they would take protection hits or help you in any way.
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