http://dbd.game/killswitch
It's funny how High MMR and 4 Stack SWF are a very small percentage of Players.
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The overwhelming majority of survivors are SWFing it up because BhVR are hiding the stats. I have never ONE time seen BhVR ever release statistics for just how much of the survivor playerbase is SWFing in their matches. I think it is time for an audit.
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I don't know who BHVR balances this game for, but they do seem to make some questionable decisions. Vecna has a 66% Kill rate at low MMR but they still decided to buff him recently anyway. Make that make sense to me. Presumably his Kill rate is lower at high MMR, so I guess you could say the buffs are evidence that BHVR are balancing more for high MMR now, but who really knows for sure.
I don't think they care how much Survivors at the bottom end of MMR are struggling, given how many significant Killer buffs we've seen in recent patches.
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They did release stats about each: solo, 2 man, 3 man, and 4 man. If I recall correctly, it was a few years ago and they did it only once. The majority was solo…60%? Then duos, then 3 mans, and a 4 man was 4% at the time. I would love to see an update of numbers as well.
Edit: Looks like it was 6 years ago 😄 https://share.google/TXhzLaJHFag3LTqfN
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they are hiding the data. I looked it up and the last time we had any stats on this was in 2017, in the games infancy. BhVR is picking and choosing what stats they are showing us to push a narrative. Anyone who has taken a statistics class will tell you definitively that statistics can be manipulated to tell a lie, and one of the ways this happens is by omission of data that shows that something not so good is happening.
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2019 was the last time. I made an edit and linked the stats I found. The stats include both Xbox and ps4 numbers, too. So it's much better than 2017, but yes still 6 years old.
I love the quote "Statistics don't lie, but liars love statistics."
Like I said, I'd love to see an updated stats as well. If we could get stats from every year, that would be awesome. (Year 1, year 2, etc.)
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By Omitting stats and important context behind those stats, they are essentially making it difficult to trust a single thing they put out. If they are manipulating sentiment by omitting data and context, then they could be fudging the data they do show us too. I want to see the updated stats and context behind those stats.
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Good to see that people are doing their own research. That is to say, they watched a Choy video, and are now upset lmao.
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If I'm understanding you, you don't want stats, you want access to their data files? I mean, sure they can manipulate the data, but we can only take what they give us at face value. Asking for more isn't really reasonable.
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When have they ever not omitted stats and important context behind other stats they've released? They have done it every single time, and its the standard for a live service game. Because the amount of data being collected, curated, and processed is absolutely massive and consisting almost exclusively on other data points. There will always be parts of the story missing, which is why all of the data they release is supposed to be taken as representing trending and not hard statistics.
The focus should be on the what/when/why/where/how of the data they curate, or it should be about the massive grain of salt to take with the numbers they release. Instead people just see numbers and then look for ways to try to mold them to fit their arguments, which in turn, makes them more wary to release more.
I should clarify, this isn't even remotely in defense of their internal data practices. I have zero idea what data they fudge, discard, or attribute incorrectly internally (and im sure it's more than zero,) just that the community has proven multiple times that the data released is less actual insight and more simple argument fuel.
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To be fair, if they gave you all that info and it said 4 man swf was still around 4%, would you believe it, or would you still believe that they must be manipulating the info?
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First of all it all depends what is players skill and experience then killers very differ in terms of power level offcourse blight/ghoul will do better than huntress,demogorgan against very strong team. Survivors are still underpowerd from point of viev by many people but now they are strongest they ever been (by basekit ofc). Yes killers 4k in tournaments but there are hard restrictions for survivors if everybody could bring like dead hard,ds,unbreakable, wea are gonna live forever (basicaly full meta) and medkit with styptic or instaheal then killer would have hell and survivors would beat tunnel or slugging with ease. Gen deffence is all around hooks you need hooks to get perks and not all killers can do that faster than split swf with full meta and insane skill to slow killers progress down. Another thing is every tournament begins with tunnel and there are all strategies including proxy camping, slugging without them the outcome would be different.
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Even if the stats were 2 or 3 years old they are not viable to go by and win in an argument that SWFs are still not that common.
Like why cant we as a whole group of players demand an updated statistics each year or half a year if its too demanding for them.
I still feel like BHVR is hiding stats from us to not lose partial playerbase because the stats are way more chaotic than they were 6 years ago, and 6 years ago people did not play with friends that often if my memory serves me correct people despised buying dbd and playing dbd because before the game was not that enjoyable for most.
On steam i bought the game in 2018 and booted it few times played 2hours max did not touch it since last year but on ps5.
Anyways back to stats, there is just no way that my matches as a killer are so different from one another, one match i can play casually and still win 3/4 kills at 3 gens left and then there are games i have to sweat tryhard patrol the best possible make no mistake hits just to get 1 down.
Its either that in those matches i play with 2 randoms + 2 premades or its 3 or 4 premades because its just impossible they know my every movement location at all times i run my michael ew 1 build to just jumpscare and chase people mainly hook and spread around and patrol.
So majority of aura perks dont work on me it makes no sense
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You seem to only think survivors have restrictions. Killers have restrictions in tournament/comp play as well. What if killers brought in all their red add-ons? Iri head huntress, acidic blood xeno, tombstone Myers, blight with iri or purple add-ons, 3 blink nurse or really any purple or red add-ons, etc... comp play nerfs both sides. Like I already said, slugging is often banned in comp play, unless you want to be disqualified. Tunneling is discouraged, but allowed. You get more points for each new survivor you hook. If you tunnel and 4k, then you get all 4 points, if you tunnel and 2k, then you only got half the points in that category. Camping in comp play usually loses you the game, because comp survivors will let their teammate die on first hook in order to complete 5 gens. And I already stated that nurse is often banned in comp play. A killer is so broken that she is banned in comp play...
Again, like I said, in comp games it comes down to who has the better killer. Most games end with 4ks, but how fast did you get your 4k?
You can say things would be different if there were no restrictions on either side, but every match would be a slugging 3 blink nurse. Every game would most likely end in a tie. Where is the fun in that?
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Agree, I wish they would release the stats. I even said earlier, I'd love to see what they were for each year.
Yes, we can't go by 6 year old stats, I was just saying that BHVR did release those stats once before. I thought is was like 4 years ago, but turns out it was 6. But as someone who has played since the beginning, killers have always said that they play against nothing but 4 man swfs. And when BHVR released those stats, killers said they weren't correct.
Playing solo, I have been accused of being on a 4 man several times, and then called a liar when we said we weren't. Just because a couple of survivors know how to go in for an end game unhook, or know to go down at a pallet, etc doesn't mean anything.
Games vary one match to the next? Of course they do, mmr isn't real or it's just really broken.
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The stats have always been chaotic, for the reasons I listed above. Almost every single data point is the combination of multiple other data points, many of which also have +/- variances. There will always be context missing from any released statistics, because they would have to be insane to try to release every supplementary data point variable that provides the necessary context. The data is useful as insight toward trends within the game, but it takes a lot of extra data for it to turn numbers into statistics. Due to the fact so many in the userbase are unwilling to accept the game can be anything other than their own personal experience, its both a fool's errand and actively fuels discord within the community as people weaponize any scrap they can get their hands on.
This is the crux of the issue. People make their minds up before they see the numbers, then try to either use the numbers to justify their opinion or dismiss the numbers and fall back to their lived experience. The numbers are supposed to be the "other half" of the lived experience (I.E the average of the lived experience of every other player) for you to help piece together what happens outside your own perspective. Unfortunately they are hardly used for that purpose.
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Camping is so important to comp DBD, that they forbid survivors from using the anti facecamp mechanic, so that killers can facecamp as much as they want.
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i have never seen that rule, but I know camaraderie is a popular perk so they can stay on the hook longer and waste the killers time camping/more efficient on gens
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Yeah i wont lie i do also often get matches too as a survivor since i solo q almost always since my buddies usually have work and uni hence nobody to play with much but yeah these matches feel godly and go smooth very fast gen rush and we help each other unhook nice synergy.
Its just so random the whole mmr system where its unpredictable you wont know if you will get placed with some lucky casuals that escaped by mercy of killers or left alone never helped other survivors etc.
Anyways i would love to have updated stats and behind the scenes knowledge of their way of balancing further and plans.
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Machine learning system would categorize that data in a heart beat honestly like seriously those little system designs are insane and used widely by banks, companies to manage some extreme encrypted systems but in dbd it would just be used to properly balance the game widely across all mmr variant players.
Look it wont be easy but its not impossible, my friend says we wont really see this system in place for another 5 years due to how devs dont want to do it because its just not a thing yet but its possible if whoever on BHVR team is in charge for AI.
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Yes, data systems are used internally. A few people have even dropped small insights on how their internal data aggregation works, IIRC Peanits (i think?) talked about it very briefly before years ago in a topic. Players aren't doing that with the data, nor are they going to be able to identify any of the important contextual data nor are they likely to even address data points as ranges rather than fixed number averages. They want to have numbers to prop their arguments about whatever complaint du jour they have that requires those numbers.
The net result, again, is that the data will be weaponized far more than it will be used for genuine insight, like it always has been. It will be afforded the insight the end user was already going to attribute to it regardless of what it actually represents. Like it is every single time they post any data. When they release data its usually "for fun," as a neat little perspective in the overall game outside our perspectives.
We need to be able to accept it as just that if we want more, otherwise you'll have to stick with curated proportional statistic aggregation like Nightlight. That doesn't tell the whole story either, but at least in BHVR's eyes they don't have personal responsibility to the data nor players' personal opinions about said data.
Post edited by Ryuhi on0 -
With that knowledge i think even BHVR team is by definition struggling to man handle it them selves which could be the reason why the game state is what it is right now and has been a long time.
Like even if they release the stats to the public they really wont do any good which is my concern too, what also concerns me is i think the current stats are fairly balanced around 30% - 30% - 30% and so on, its not like it was before reaching sky high 50-60% solo q casuals.
That would make sense why the changes have kinda stopped and have been slowed down ever since, the changes have been more drastic in past.
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If it was, then there would more than 3 viable killers when played at that level. Why do you think comp puts massive restrictions on survivors against pretty much any other killer?
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Think of it like dozens of spreadsheets printed on transparencies, then stacked on top of one another. Their job is to use that data to shape the future of the game. The tools that they have to do so are generally designed around being able to either extrapolate or isolate that data (and its affect on other data) on demand. How well they apply those statistics is an entirely different discussion, but if the claim is that they aren't able to keep up with tools specifically designed for data aggregation, then why wouldn't forum users keeping Excel to log game data (even incomplete data released by the devs themselves) fall to the same data digestion issues?
If your argument is that they're not doing a good enough job of interpreting their own data, thats a reasonable opinion to have. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being unhappy with any particular aspect of the game, and to think something needs a course correction. To assume your average hyperbolic poster in the community is going to understand incomplete data better than they can internally is laughable, regardless of how inept anyone thinks they are. All the community can do is provide insights that they can then use the data to replicate/simulate/isolate and then adjust from there. Nobody is going to see something like % of matches with a Nea present and crack the code for all the game's woes, but even the kill statistics they release are an average of a variable range the moment they are intended to be applied to anything, and immediately begin to depend on other data.
Like even if they release the stats to the public they really wont do any good which is my concern too, what also concerns me is i think the current stats are fairly balanced around 30% - 30% - 30% and so on, its not like it was before reaching sky high 50-60% solo q casuals.This statement encapsulates why they wouldn't be forthcoming to release more data. I honestly don't even know what its about due to incomplete information. I'm assuming kill rates, but there is a 30/30/30 split in there randomly which means it can't actually fit into kill rates (either because it has 3 outcomes, or draws were meant to be included but then it doesn't equal 100%.) Data needs to be clear and complete, otherwise it invites misunderstanding.
Applying data to game mechanics is not an easy task, and it gets more complicated the more variances you add in. That is why this has always been a game based on chaotic averages. It is extremely important to be very careful that data does not get misattributed, because then you both fail to fix the issue as well as indirectly create a new one with negligence.
Post edited by Ryuhi on0 -
Iri head huntress is long time gone and huntress isnt best killer in tournaments (many players can loop her well even slinger is there stronger with his power being more oppresive in chase), acid blood xeno was nerfed so it isnt that strong maybe now with tunnel spawn fix this addon can do something but its not strong as first version, blight, nurse are strong even without iries and mayers with tomb stone is one of his two adon builds that can have chance against strong teams (mayers is slow killer before he can get his power going survivors can have some gens finished and his stalk cost him too much distance but his endgame around hook is much better than ghostface). From what I have seen every comp game strarts with guesing who isnt running ds,otr,dead hard to be turbo tunneled, camping is weak but if you need second stage than some proxy can be game changing. I mean nurse with full meta against comp swf with full meta is pretty even and the deciding factor will be things like map and first chase, nurse isnt best mobility killer and map like larrys can slow her down with blinks (its very hard to blink without knowing survivor runs this path).
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I don't think you understand the nerfs survivors would be getting hit with if this game was balanced around SWF's lmfao.
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It's balanced at the High MMR as much as the players on this forum are "High" MMR.
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People are not aware of the immense difference between an ordinary survivor and a good one. It's not the same to chase someone who runs into walls, never looks back and doesn't use the resources at his disposal, as compared to someone who knows what he's doing.
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We're mainly talking about SWFs who know how to play at least a little. Obviously, a SWF that's new to the game or unfamiliar with all the killers will be terrible.
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I see you completely underestimate the complexity of playing killer. Saying it’s "incredibly easy" to play killer completely ignores the dynamics of the game. You’re talking about win streaks, but you’re missing a major detail: those players have years of experience and a deep understanding of the game mechanics, which allows them to perform at a high level. It’s not about "ease"; it’s the result of practice, constant analysis, and adapting to the meta shifts.
The fact that a player can have a streak of wins doesn’t mean the killer role is inherently easy. On the contrary, to maintain that level, you need to anticipate survivors' actions, manage the pressure of time, make tactical decisions quickly, and adapt to teams that can exploit every aspect of the game to their advantage.
If you think playing killer is easy, try playing at high MMR against organized groups and see for yourself how it’s not just a matter of "chasing and killing." Survivors are constantly planning, coordinating, using perks, and strategizing to counter every move you make. That’s when it becomes tough to maintain pressure and take advantage of any mistakes. A single bad timing, and it can all turn against you. So, before claiming it’s easy, try to take into account the whole picture, rather than judging the killer role just by a streak of wins. It’s anything but simple, especially when facing well-organized teams.
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Your opinion whether or not an add-on is strong is irrelevant. The point is that both sides have nerfs. Survivors are nerfed in comp and so are killers. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Look, I understand your point about players picking the killers with the highest win rates, but your argument doesn’t hold up when we dig deeper into the core issue. If three killers are consistently the top performers and the rest are barely picked, it’s a clear indication of game imbalance, not just players seeking the ‘easiest’ way to win.
The fact that these three killers dominate and the others are barely used shows that the game isn’t offering a level playing field. It’s not about being ‘good’ at the game or having perfect macros and micros; it’s about the developers needing to address the balance. Players will naturally gravitate toward what’s most effective, and right now, that’s limited to a small number of killers.
So, instead of just accepting the fact that certain killers are the only viable options, we should be questioning why the game is designed this way in the first place. If the other killers were properly balanced, you’d see more variety in the game. And as long as the devs fail to address this, the game will always be skewed in favor of a few dominant killers.
You're just confirming what I said earlier. The imbalance in the game is evident, and you’re inadvertently proving the point that the game revolves around a few select killers.
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well, the problem is there was a time when only nurse and blight and spirit were good killers and the rest of the killers in the game were actually really bad and underperforming.
then in BHVR's infinite wisdom..
they decided to make all of these m1 killers stronger by rebalancing the game in their favor (patch 6.1).
but this really pushed the strongest killers in the game to being even more powerful and it's why we're seeing players go on 500+ winstreaks with these killers. the game is not balanced at the top end of play at all and BHVR won't address it.
it's actually pretty disgusting when i think about how lopsided many matches are nowadays compared to how matches used to be a few years ago. but w/e
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There’s a fundamental issue with the basic mechanics of the game, especially when it comes to the balance between killers and survivors.
To understand the problem, you only need to look at the core gameplay. In Dead by Daylight, survivors have pallets and windows, which create "loops" that allow them to hold a killer off for a while. This is a fundamental mechanic of the game. However, over the years, the developers have introduced killer kits that can completely ignore these basic mechanics. Whether it’s long-range attacks, teleportation, or dashes through windows and pallets, these killers are no longer constrained by the same limitations as others, creating a huge imbalance.
Classic killers, who must respect windows and pallets, don’t have this flexibility, which naturally puts them at a disadvantage. This disparity partly explains why some killers, when mastered at a high level, can go on incredible win streaks. Survivors, in these cases, end up being "punching bags" for these well-equipped killers.
In conclusion, it’s necessary to rework certain killers to restore a more balanced experience. The current gameplay heavily favors killers who can ignore the basic mechanics, which penalizes those who still respect the game’s rules. A more global revision of killer kits could improve the situation and create a better experience for all players, both killers and survivors.
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Nurse is banned because she’s the strongest killer in the game. She ignores everything — even simple walls. I imagine that in every competitive match or internal scrim you’ve watched, they’re always playing killers who either control multiple generators at once or completely bypass core game mechanics like pallets and windows — just like I mentioned in my previous message.
There’s a clear imbalance. Old killers aren’t weak, they’re just useless in comparison to the newer ones, who are way too overloaded. The issue isn’t with the old killers — it’s with the kits of the recent ones. Just look at the current meta; it speaks for itself. But you can’t claim that killer is the overall easier role just because two or three killers are completely broken.
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You summed it up perfectly, and more and more players are finally starting to realize it. The MMR is hidden because they know the system is flawed and doesn’t follow any real competitive matchmaking logic. Anyone who speaks up about these issues — especially here on the forum — gets silenced, often banned for simply pointing out uncomfortable truths, particularly when it involves marketing decisions. As for the statistics, it's obvious they only share data that supports their narrative, and only when it suits them.
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Would agree its hard to compare the two as you are playing very different games.
Killer is just easier. Easier to approach, easier to progress, easier at the high level.
The game wouldnt happen if this was not the case.
The only issue arises is the magnitude of this ease, as some killers and some addons are just out there.
Survivor though, you have some of that progression, but you are "held hostage" in the win/lose sense by other people, not so much your personal skill. So it being easy or hard is based on chance.
Unless you are in a coordinated and competitive group, which makes up less than 1% of the player base on survivor.3 -
Theres no need for ad hominem attacks towards other users.
If you want to personally investigate users on the website here, you can look at posts I made not that long ago on here with Plague and Pig matches.
Lets keep this discussion about the topic rather than attacking people saying "nonsense…" "judging by your…" "meta slaves…"
Hope this helps!3 -
Is this because of that Choy video or is this the bi-weekly everyone argue thread?
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Honestly, it's incredibly frustrating to see people making overly simplistic claims about how killer is the "easier role." If you genuinely believe that, I challenge you to step out of the comfort zone and play 20–30 matches with an off-meta killer — no Nurse, no Blight, no Spirit, no Springtrap. Play someone like Trapper, Pig, or Clown, and grind for a bit. Then come back and tell me killer is the easier role.
Because survivor — outside of coordinated groups — has basically become a QTE simulator. You're glued to a gen for most of the match, and one mistake by your team or a killer running heavy slowdown and proxying hooks can snowball everything fast. Yes, that can feel helpless. But on the killer side, the pressure is relentless. You’re constantly forced to make impactful decisions: who to tunnel, when to slug, which gens to give up, which side of the map to control. And if you try to play fair and hook everyone equally, good luck getting 12 hooks against a competent SWF.
So no — killer isn't simply “easier.” It gives you more agency, sure, but it also puts you under nonstop pressure. This debate needs more nuance, and it should be based on actual experience across a wide variety of killers, not just the top-tier ones that can carry players by themselves.
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Edit: "—"
And the language of these responses.
I know where these comments are being inputed and copied from. Make sure we are responding with actual keyboards than AI.1 -
Whether I use a translator or an assistant to help word my responses, the core ideas are entirely mine and stay the same. I choose to present my points clearly and with structure so people like you don't just focus on how something is said instead of what is being said. Just because you don’t like the wording doesn’t make the argument any less valid. If you have a real counterpoint, address what I said — not how I said it. Otherwise, you clearly have nothing solid to respond with.
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Being under more pressure doesn't mean the role is more difficult, just less accessible, which is a whole different issue, though still one worth discussing, I feel.
Back to the topic at hand, objectively, Killer is easier than Survivor. The game is, currently, designed to favor the Killer. We've seen Killers go on 2000+ win streaks, even Killers like Clown have gone on 400+ game win streaks. These "low-tier" Killers you've suggested? They function just fine for most players, with some specialists pushing them far beyond what people thought possible.
Whether or not this is a problem is a debate, but it seems to be a different one than what you're having.
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I don't even bother replying anymore, honestly. No matter how much we argue, you always have an answer for everything, and you're clearly more interested in an ego battle than actually trying to find solutions to the problem. For you, everything is perfect in the game, nothing's wrong, it's all wonderful and everything works flawlessly!
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Can't recall ever speaking to you before, perhaps you've mistaken me for someone else?
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Last response as I have went back and it seems this account is just copy and pasting AI responses as well as it being dismissive and assumptive. Id rather not argue with a AI copy and paste.
This response is mostly to make the community managers aware that they need to implement detection programs for stuff like this on their forums, mostly AI stuff.
Open discussion is fine, the whole point of this forum. But if you are just going to post AI generated responses at every whim then you are not interested in general discussion, personal discussion or being self critical, or anything really in a community sense.You are just trying to outsmart people with a chat bot.
If you are heavily leaning on AI to speak for you then maybe what you are saying doesnt really have much justification to begin with?Again dismissive, assumptive, and not what someone said.
At least this wasnt generated as far as I can tell.1 -
I disagree.
I think that survivor is easier mechanically. At the end of the day, it's simple third person movement with an occasional button press. You could argue that there are a handful of loops in the game that are difficult to get a fast vault at, but besides that, the act of looping a tile is ridiculously simplistic.
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Idk that I'm convinced that it's getting top-down balancing, but it's somewhere in between (as always). The emphasis on making sure that Killer is always given the advantage to maintain the kill rates certainly feels like it though. The level of punishing DBD feels like, especially as Survivor, these days puts it on par with how it feels to play a Korean MMO without a large disposable income lmao
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A lot of Killers are quite simple mechanically as well, so I don't think there's some massive gulf.
As usual, the difference really is just knowledge. As a Survivor, you need to have knowledge of all Killers and we have, what, 35 or so now? That's a HUGE amount of knowledge to need to learn and you really have no control over when or how you learn it.
As a Killer, you can choose to play as many or as few Killers as you like. Every Survivor is the same and has the same basic abilities. Learning perks will definitely be a pain, but that's also true of Survivor.
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It's interesting that you're focusing on the way I express myself rather than the actual content of the discussion. I've been critical of the game, its mechanics, and its current state, and I believe that should be addressed. But instead of responding to the concerns I raised, you've chosen to focus on how they're being expressed rather than the message itself.
It's also important to note that the idea of 'trying to outsmart others' with a chatbot is a bit exaggerated. I'm here to discuss the issues, not to 'win' some argument. If you're rejecting my points simply because of how they're phrased, I encourage you to reconsider that. The goal of a community is to engage in open dialogue and debate, not to shut down discussion just because a point of view is expressed in a way you don't agree with.
So, while I respect your opinion, I'd prefer if we could focus on the actual content of the discussion rather than how it's being presented.
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However, most killer powers are countered in the same ways. You counter Huntress hatchets in a very similar way to Deathslinger. Also, most killers in the game are weak to shift+w, which is arguably the EASIEST survivor strategy. You're not learning 35 different counterplays. You're learning around three or four. And, again, most of it is easily reproduced and mechanically simple. For instance, once you know to crouch behind a low wall vs Nemesis, you can easily do it over and over again.
Not only that, but shift+w and pre-running allows even below average survivors to have reasonably long chases. (I should know, it's what I do.)
I guess what I'm saying is that there really isn't THAT much to learn. Watching a few videos when a new killer comes out is usually enough to know how to counter that killer, and applying that knowledge is usually relatively simple.
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