http://dbd.game/killswitch
fix Crouch tech
Hello everyone, as an elder of this game, having legacy prestige and having played this game for more than 9k hours, I want to raise the topic of Crouch tech. And this trick is a bug and a flaw of the developers, the developers write that they fixed it, but this is a lie. Such characters as the villager, Mor, Victor, Charlotte, they and others cannot strike when turning and for squatting the survivor, which reduces his hitbox and the maniac, for example, the villager simply drives past, crashing into him, the same with Mor, and so on, or if the villager is driving down the stairs and the survivor squats, the villager will simply crash into him and eat him
Comments
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I don't really mind it working against Blight and Billy, simply because they can handle this as counter play.
They definetly should fix this for Demo…-1 -
How else survs have a chance vs s tier killers?
I Guess for demo,but idk if possible
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So removing hug tech is fine because it is the power not functioning properly, but its ok if it doesn't function properly if that gives the survivor a chance to avoid getting hit due to the power malfunctioning?
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Oh, so bugs are fine as long as it benefits the survivor. Bugs that benefit the killer, of course, need to be fixed immediately.
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Lol, you won't really get to me with this.
In past I have supported many bugs that benefited killers and many techs stays, sure some were removed in past for both sides tho.
Simply because I think "techs", or "exploits" for some make that game more interesting for me. It adds another layer you can learn to this game.
There were definetly techs that should be removed, all depends on what it does and if other side can do anything about it.
For example Chucky had "tech", where he could basically prepare his power to use it later without charging and I think also cooldown. That is of course absolutely busted.
But then you have tons of little techs on Wesker, where they are definetly not intended, but make the killer so much more interesting to learn, but neither of them is really breaking his power.9 -
I don't really mind removal of hugtech for blight, simply because that was something that made him too strong and easy to play in my opinion.
I would definetly be against removing hugtech for Wesker, simply because his version is way more difficult and not really that game breaking.
I was annoyed when it was removed from Dracula.
I think removal/keeping of "techs" should be on case to case basis, not keep everything, nor remove everything.8 -
crouch tech is one of the better forms of survivor skill expression in the game adding more depth to chases.
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press ctrl its not skill
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pressing m2 to dashslop forward isnt skill either so who cares
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My point was that you can't remove "tech" specifically citing it as being an unintended function of a game mechanic while simultaneously trying to defend similar "tech" that gets deliberately used to… make a power function in an unintended manner. Since they removed hug tech and even claimed to have fixed crouch tech (they did, only partially) when the thing that they removed in the name of that vision was a skill ceiling anomaly, thats bad enough. That said, it makes the half assed attempt at a fix that much more important: They are being given a very clear opportunity to show parity in design, and their approach just fuels people who cry favoritism.
Consistency. Bring back skybilly or hold everyone to an even standard.
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The skill expression for crouch tech is non-existant. If you're off to the side in a scenario where you would be hit anyway might as well just press the crouch button in the off chance you shrink your hitbox enough to not get hit.
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press button - no skill, know when to press the button - a lot of skill.
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Barely around a corner = crouch. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Its not some insane skill ceiling only the top 5% of dbd players can get right.
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it actually is because the majority of the survivors im seeing arent capable of that lmao
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Of course we can, simply because not all techs are same.
They all have different difficulties and different outcomes. Some techs were simply busted and easy to use.
Some have use only in specific situation, or very hard to do…
There is simply no way any tech that gets accidently created should say, because some are beyond broken, or remove whole counterplay of killer.
I don't think removing hugtech of Blight was a bad change, it was simply easy and removed whole counterplay of Blight.
I think removing hugtech of Wesker would be a bad change, that is actually difficult and way more limited to use.
Removing all techs would be almost equally as bad imo, simply because game would become so much more boring.
I highly doubt Wesker would be anwhere near as popular, if you removed all techs he has.Sure, there is no standard to this and I don't there should be any. Let's be honest, DBD doesn't really have much of a standard to anything.
Bring back skybilly
I loved to watch skybilly, so definetly up for that.
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That isnt what bothers me blight can just shoulder flick you and theres no crouch tech that can save you, billy is hurt more by it but still when he hits its instadown. Only killer who is killed by this tech is demogoegon you must hit sirvivor directly with his power on flat surface for hit to conect and its super hard to do against good survivors who can crouch tech, incresing his hitbox would hurt demo too he would just hit random invisiable walls and objects like he did with bubba on old erie, you can even crouch tech demo on loops with narrow coridors of some loops with sucess like 30-50% he just has to think will you go left or right or just run straight, his cooldown is long and very punishing for missing thats why like 2 years back solid b-tier killer just falling down to bottom.
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and nemesis…
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You're purposely missing the forest for the trees. It doesn't matter how strong or weak a character in a game is, if you fix their skill ceiling because of the ability to specifically cause the power to malfunction, you can't purposely leave in a malfunction as some type of spiteful "balancing" measure. You're trying to focus on the specifics of the two while ignoring the massive design contradiction. This isn't even about "any" tech vs "any" other. Exploits/bugs/techs/whatever all have varying levels of impact and importance. This is about two separate bugs involving the exact same power, as well as other similar powers from other killers, so there needs to be consistency in how it is approached from a design standpoint. Not doing so is the type of favoritism that leads people to call the game X sided every chance they get.
If there was a bug that only affected SWFs on comms, it would be absolutely asinine to not address it and act like its some kind of balancing feature. Hell, just look at any of the many bug fixes nurse has had over the game's life, and try to tell yourself that keeping all of her fatigue and dead blink bugs should have stayed as balancing measures.
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You're purposely missing the forest for the trees.I don't know, @PetTheDoggo seems to be distinguishing why the trees are different pretty clearly.
so there needs to be consistency in how it is approached from a design standpoint.The consistency seems to be:
If something unintended happens, but it makes the game better, keep it.
If something unintended happens, and it makes the game worse, remove it.
If there was a bug that only affected SWFs on comms, it would be absolutely asinine to not address it and act like its some kind of balancing feature.That doesn't sound asinine at all. What's the relevance of the result being on accident?
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If something unintended happens, but it makes the game better, keep it.People made this argument for keeping hug tech, especially since it was a skill cap anomaly that was in the game for years, even after being publicly acknowledged. In the end, it was behavior's decision to remove it because it was an unintended consequence of how the affected dash powers worked vs how they were supposed to work. Crouch tech relies on hit and hurt boxes not lining up due to verticality paired with survivors' ability to shrink their hurtbox (yes I know collision is done by cylinders and cones, using colloquial nomenclature) on demand. It is quite literally pressing a button under specific circumstances to make the killers power do nothing instead of registering a valid hit. You cannot claim one has more merit than the other unless you are weighing the importance of one side over the other. They go hand in hand.
My stance, again, is about game design: You can't selectively choose to ignore bugs that can have impacts as strong as hits not registering when they're supposed to while simultaneously removing ones that require setup and specifically affect the upper skill ceiling concerning the exact same power. They already claimed crouch tech was fixed, until people very quickly found out it was only fixed sometimes. This is, again, very specifically about the two halves of the "power malfunctioning" part of the issue, and especially about the inconsistency in design showing a very clear bias, and I hate giving that camp fuel but if they actually fixed it when they said they were going to (or when they did) then this conversation wouldn't even be happening.
That doesn't sound asinine at all. What's the relevance of the result being on accident?Crouch tech still working is "supposed" to be an accident, or they flat out lied about it to the community. The relevance is that most sane people agree that SWF shouldn't be directly punished just for being SWF, even though using comms gives a very clear advantage that the game was not designed around (lack of information.) In my hypothetical, if there was a bug that only hindered SWF players who are using comms, that would be the same type of "balance by bugs" approach if it were purposely ignored. Not only would it be unfair to anyone who plays with comms and doesn't take advantage of them, it would be purposely leaving in a bug that only affects players who have what would be considered an advantage: The point pairs with the nurse one that followed it, that purposely leaving bugs as some type of haphazard balance karma is a terrible idea no matter who it applies to.
I specified I'm not talking about X bug vs Y bug in unrelated instances. There is nothing to compare about the individual trees. I'm talking about one group of powers, you could even narrow it down to just blight for conversation's sake, and it shows a contradiction in both design and direction. If entirely unintentional, it then shows a split in either competence or effort, as they already claimed it to be fixed and haven't readdressed it yet. And worst of all if its entirely deliberate and they just honestly feel that survivors complaining about hug tech landing hits while completely ignoring killers who earn valid hits just not getting them because of a combination of elevation issues and pressing a single button for a few frames, it directly becomes an issue of inconsistent design and/or direction. Again, they just need(ed) to handle it better if they want to even appear impartial. Literally all they had to do was not lock the vertical axis on the camera so killers could at least react to it. As a simple throwaway idea, they could have even adjusted the cone so that it would have less range when looking down, giving a mindgame between the killer and survivor on whether they were going to attempt the tech to dodge or not. Don't pick the specifics of that idea apart too much because its off the cuff, but the point is they chose to handle it in both a lazy and contradictory way.
Edit: I hope the person who immediately downvoted realizes I'm not even defending hug tech, but that might be asking a lot.
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Thank you, at least someone understands what I was trying to say…
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People made this argument for keeping hug tech, especially since it was a skill cap anomaly that was in the game foryears, even after being publicly acknowledged. In the end, it was behavior's decision to remove it because it was an unintended consequence of how the affected dash powers worked vs how they were supposed to work.This seems to be a different argument than what @PetTheDoggo is talking about.
1: He's giving his personal opinion about how BHVR should behave in their decision making and then explaining the why on this situation
2: You're arguing that BHVR needs to follow precedent they've established about the issue with bugs.
Even if the second is true, it doesn't preclude a discussion about what a more ideal policy would be or whether a bug would be good or not if instead of being a bug it was actually a feature.
-I had a much longer post at first in reply, but figured I'd try to simplify it down.
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I understand what you're trying to say, which is why I'm specifying that I'm talking from a design standpoint. Balance by bugs is one of the worst design perspectives a game can have, and in most genres its entirely unthinkable. Even with CVS2 there is a schism concerning roll cancelling being fixed in the EO version, and thats been a debate for a while. Capcom put their foot down and made the EO version (the one that fixes the bug) to be the standard for things like online play. People still have access to the unpatched version as they have for years (including on the new re-release) but even veteran players understand the importance of the patched version and stick with it. Even sticking with Capcom's fighting game re-releases specifically, they used multiple fixed versions of the legacy games on the collections, even when the unpatched versions were the community favored ones.
The only time its ever well received is in situations like CVS2, where it adjusts the viability of lower tier characters (even though it also marginally helps higher tiers as well) specifcally because it is more universal. Roll cancelling doesn't affect every character, but for some it helps (even if it indirectly hurts them vs the higher tiers.) Even though Capcom do not promote it, they included it exactly as is. If they did something like make it specifically not work for high tier characters, nobody who plays classic would even want that.
As an aside to give more weight to the commitment to this, they even nerfed a bug that Dan had, famously one of the worst characters in fighting game history (though he's had worse versions, but still) had a bug fixed where all it did was allow him to build meter at the end of a round under bizarre circumstances. Nobody thought he needed it taken away, but they didn't consider it worthy of being a feature, so it was fixed in EO.
There's a threshold where a bug can become a feature, which is an entirely different conversation. Thats why I keep bringing up the double standard in their cited design reasoning: If one is a bugfeature, both are. If you only make one a feature (even though it was already identified as a bug and even attempted to fix it) that becomes inconsistent. Since DBD can't have two separate versions to give a room for all of the positively received "techs" it has had over the years into some kind of unplayable mess, they need to be consistent in their approach to resolving vs adapting issues like this. Considering there's even stuff like invisible walls that stop movement abilities from launching off of elevation in many areas of maps, crouch tech has no place in the current game.
Post edited by Ryuhi on0 -
I never said they're not allowed to have an opinion, just that acting on it would be both detrimental and contradictory to the game around it. I've been going into detail about it because that type of linear thinking is why the game keeps introducing more problems with every "fix." I don't mean anything against them personally, just emphasizing that its a dangerous idea that many games both fall victim to and realize the importance of avoiding. The impact is far too high to even entertain the idea of just ignoring it and trying to warp it into a feature for specific killers. That type of thinking is already a pox on this game's discourse on both sides.
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I still miss Dog Dragula hug tech, whether or not it was healthy for the game lol
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It just seems to be a tangent from the point about whether and when a feature would be good for the game or not to a broader discussion on game design theory.
I say this aware of the irony that I've gone off on tangents many times on this forum.
As an example, the idea of keeping it in for one killer and removing it for others is probably impossible just because its the same code and either they fix it for one, or not fix it at all, because unique coding per killer would probably not be worth the time. That's almost certainly true from a coding perspective, but I feel like it would be a different discussion.
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The topic is about how crouch tech was supposed to have been fixed, and the post posited that it should only be fixed for some killers while not being fixed for others, and I explained why that is a bad idea. Multidimensional thought is an important aspect of critical thinking, which is why its often important to zoom the scope out to avoid our personal biases or, again, losing the forest for the trees. If the point is made then great, but like I said earlier, BHVR seems content to just sweep their design contradiction under the rug when inconvenient instead of actually commit to them omnilaterally, and excuses like balance by bugs are an easy way for them to quietly justify that to the community if they decide to change their mind about actually fixing it.
Post edited by Ryuhi on0 -
Balance by bugs is one of the worst design perspectives a game can have, and in most genres its entirely unthinkable
Whole current way of playing DBD is not intended. I fail to see how it is bad thing.
Sure, there are game breaking bugs that should been removed, but some bugs should become a feature and stay imo. We can see this on Knight quite well…
DBD is not CSGO, or Dota. Bugs are part of the game at this point and balance is not really a thing in DBD. I don't think it's bad thing, DBD is supposed to be played for fun and some bugs simply add additional layer of what you can learn about this game.
It may be not interesting for you, but I love to learn what bugs there are and how to use them.If one is a bugfeature, both are. If you only make one a feature (even though it was already identified as a bug and even attempted to fix it) that becomes inconsistent.
Killers are not the same. The outcome of similar bug on the game is not same. Killer's counterplay is not same.
It simply doesn't make sense to hold this to any standard to me and should be treated case by case.1 -
I personally didn't have issue with his hugtech. Thing is you need to look completely down, which means losing LoS of survivor and play blindly, which means survivor had option to change pathing without you knowing.
His hugtech had counterplay to it and wasn't that easy to do imo.
I think Blight's hugtech needed to go. He is second best killer in DBD and his hugtech basically removed his main counterplay. It was also very easy to do.
I don't have issue with Wesker's hugtech. Way more difficult to do and very limited on where it's usefull. It's not like you can, or should use it on every loop.-1 -
I only argue for Wesker's removal for the sake of consistency, I don't understand why they were so quick to remove Dog Dracula's but not his, it's odd.
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I would prefer they didn't remove either of those and seems weird to ask for removal of other even tho I disagree with first.
I am just glad they didn't go after Wesker's techs, I don't care why. I just don't think they should.0 -
I'm fine with crouch tech. If someone was taking a swing at you IRL, ducking could help avoid it.
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I agree, I just don't understand the cherry picking.
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Sure, there are game breaking bugs that should been removed, but some bugs should become a feature and stay imo.It may be not interesting for you, but I love to learn what bugs there are and how to use them.Please stop misrepresenting me. If you just didn't understand I apologize, but I very clearly addressed this already. I also don't mean this to sound hostile, but I imagine I likely find bugs more interesting than you do. Thats why I'm being so specific about this.
Bugs are part of the game at this point and balance is not really a thing in DBD.Trying to keep a bug specifically because it hurts specific killers you subjectively think "can afford it" is literally trying to force balance under specific circumstances. Its not about overall game balance, it is about game design. I don't know how I can make this more clear.
Killers are not the same. The outcome of similar bug on the game is not same. Killer's counterplay is not same.They are not. The outcome IS, which is being denied a valid hit. The "counterplay" cited is being on uneven terrain and pressing a single button for a minimum of a few frames, and its the same for any killer's power that is designed to barely hit the top of a crouching survivor's collision*. THAT is the issue. You're imposing subjective reasoning to exclude specific killers from something as simple as expecting their power to function reliably.
Edit: To clarify, this is necessary due to how (semi)ranged attacks work, particularly so they can still register hits over low obstacles. The issue is when it applies to full body melee actions that lock the camera.
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Until they just aim downward and crack your skull. Unfortunately some DBD killers forget how to move their neck when using their powers though.
Edit: Looks like the downvotes on the op are hiding the thread yet again?
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You mean the knight feature that made the guards useless unless you pincer with them? (Wich doesnt even work bc of the 3x depletion
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I mean feature that let's you summon guard while there is already another guard active. I would say that is quite nice…
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Wich then removes the guard... wich means you gain nothing. Now if i could summon a guard to do an action while a guard keeps chasing that would be nice.
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who is "villager" and "mor"?
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Which makes him so much better to play. You can cast carnifex to get rid of pallet in chase instead of waiting 2 work days until Jailer decides it's time to stop…
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99% of so called Techs in this game are just bugs being exploited (both sides).
This is no skill expression, just bug exploitation.
ALL should be removed/fixed.
Skill expression is knowing the exact angle to do a fast vault in difficulty places, to throw Springtrap's axe in the specific angle for it to fall on a surv the other side of the wall, to know angles of a rock that are not tall as the rest of the object that you can cast Hellfire with Dracula and hit a surv…
Really, I don't get the "skill expression" being used to exploit bugs. You know it's not an intended feature and boast off about being efficient about being able to constantly exploit it. This is the same as buying 3rd party software to have wallhacks, 2% speed increase, etc.2
