http://dbd.game/killswitch
DBD League is not Dead by Daylight...it's Dead by Deduction.
It's basically a small discord clique's opinion of what Dead by Daylight should be. I watched the finals and read over their rules/balance list and it's a completely different game that is greatly watered down in complexity. They have so many silly rules and a massive list of banned add-ons and perks and perk combinations, such that it plays completely different.
You can't really generalize the strats of compies to normal Dead by Daylight, as so many counter strats would simply shut down comp strats completely if used without all the restrictions to both survivor and killer. Then there's the fact that the survivors know exactly what killer they're going to face and on which map, that's a huge gamechanger that simplifies the game greatly. Many maps aren't even considered. Kobes and chest opening not allowed. Every perk allowed only once…okay, we're not playing Dead by Daylight at this point, we're playing Dead by Deduction. It would be like removing half the piece types from a chess board and calling it competitive chess.
"§21 Survivor – Additional Rules / Gameplay…
(2) Survivors are not allowed to open chests. An open chest is the completed progress bar, and the chest opening in-game. Penalty: Black Card + Forfeit of the set (§23)"
Funny example…in DBD League you are prohibited from opening chests. You've probably heard the rumor "you should never open chests, it's a waste of time". But this is just a remnant echo of compie gameplay, where you get a BLACK CARD for opening a chest. Oh noooo…you might get a nice item, boo hoo hoo. If opening chests is so detrimental to your team, then why are they BANNED in DBD League? Because opening chests IS a strategic choice that can benefit your team in official DBD in certain situations, especially with some perk builds. It sometimes IS worth your time to open chests, depending on the context. But if you simply apply Dead by Deduction strats 1:1 to Dead by Daylight, you would conclude that opening chests is some forbidden fruit that should never be done or your entire team will crumble to pieces due to wasted time.
Yet I've seen so many players point to DBD League comp matches to support their balance argument with respect to normal Dead by Daylight, as to why killer/survivor should or shouldn't be nerfed, as to whether the game is killer or survivor-sided. It just doesn't apply. If you modify one variable of the game, the entire system changes, and DBD League has modified an enormous number of variables.
Also looking at the skill level of the players….yes, they're strong players, obviously not beginners. But by no means are they "the best" players in Dead by Daylight as the commentators state. They're heavily benefiting from guaranteed 3rd party comms, preparation for a specific killer on a limited set of maps, and a massive set of gameplay restrictions. I regularly queue against killers and with survivors in Solo Q that, skill-wise, perform just as well as and even sometimes better than the players I see in DBD League. The same players that perform well against a killer in a DBD League tourney would get destroyed in Solo Q without the help of their SWF and the limits placed on killers, limited maps, limited add-ons, and knowing in advance which killer they're facing. If you don't believe me, just watch some of the compies' solo Q streams, and you see them lose frequently just like the majority of solo Q survivors do in normal Dead by Daylight.
Thus, the "comp" scene has somewhat turned into a glorified circle jerk of clout chasing in highly modified game modes. It says very little about where you rank in normal Dead by Daylight compared to other players. In fact, many seasoned solo Q vets could outperform "the best" compie players, because solo Q pub match vets are constantly going up against the very OP strats, items and add-ons that DBD League forbids. It just so happens that if you're constantly going against the most difficult and oppressive strategies in DBD, you become a better player for it. But a compie that is routinely sheltered by custom matches with heavy restrictions and SWF comms may look good in a tournament setting, but in all likelihood would get demolished in normal DBD without all these crutches.
Otzdarva actually made a video on this a while back which showed that some random pub killers were totally able to keep up with the level of play of these "pro" compie killers, except it turned out that the pub killers' strategies were far more original. This is because in the DBD League community they all tend to copy each others play style on both killer and survivor. Whereas a pub killer that isn't involved in that community, invents his own unorthodox style of gameplay that is just as oppressive, but not widely known. But since so many casuals simply copy and follow the DBD League playstyles in normal DBD, what you tend to see is a very stale and easily countered meta with the same copy carbon gen slow-down builds, for instance. Not because running 4 gen slow-downs is "the best", but because many killers search online what "the best" killers use and find a compie killer using 4 gen slow downs, and copy that playstyle 1:1. Meanwhile, there are many unorthodox builds and alternative playstyles killers/survivors could have great success with if they just took the time to experiment for themselves in official DBD.
So my conclusion is this…you can't really extrapolate the outcomes in DBD League to the balance of official Dead by Daylight. They're two very different games with DBD League being greatly simplified, which leads to a lot of repetitive and frankly boring, streamlined playstyles. Yes, you can pick up some tips and tricks from decent players, but that's about it. If you ever get challenged to a "1 v 1" in end-game chat by a compie, rest assured it is nothing more than an ego flex. They want to drag you into their turf with their specialized set of rules and restrictions that they practice with 24/7 in the hopes they win the grand prize in DBD League and get declared as "the best" DBD player within their Discord clique. But if you 1 v 1 them, you're not playing Dead by Daylight anymore, you're playing Dead by Deduction. If you personally prefer playing Dead by Deduction, then there's nothing wrong with that. But please…let's not mix apples and oranges when arguing how the official game is or should be balanced.
Comments
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dbd league and comp dbd by extension is still a good showcase of how most killers are played or how to play around them. if a bunch of ladder monkeys bundled up together can figure out they can do something vs the killer, so can pub players.
though yeah, they arent as good as they make themselves out to be, at least when it comes to niche skill expressions.
it's tragic whenever they play singu set and 3/4 times the person is just trying to win through 3 gen from the start and then gets their first down 15 minutes into the match and barely gets their 4-5 stages 10 more minutes later. such a combination of specific rules, skill and lack of it that it's almost marveling.
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I agree that players, especially new players, can learn some helpful strategies watching DBD League. This is what I meant by "tips and tricks". For example, obviously the concept of 3 gens is very important and you can learn that watching compies.
My issue is that a lot of "counterplay" in a comp DBD setting suddenly becomes ineffective in pub matches. For example, DBD League banned a specific kidnap tech for Kaneki as well as some of his add ons. Well a pub match player going up against that kidnap tech and those add-ons is liable to get massacred even if he has studied the DBD League Bible his entire life.
This is one specific example, but there are tons of situations where this applies. Especially given that you don't know which killer you will face in a pub match, so you can't prepare a specific set of perks for that killer. So the common line "just run perk X, Y, Z" to counter a killer's mechanic/playstyle, simply doesn't work in a pub match setting, whereas it could heavily punish a specific killer in DBD League.
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I don't understand where this even comes from. Bunch on nerds gathered up to play custom games with their own "house rules" which differ from region to region. They don't push anything upon you. Do whatever you want.
If someone is egoing about it, well ######### this person. Who cares….5 -
did they even ban kidnap? i recall them using it during the main stage quite freely. if anything, they should be okay with it cuz playing around it, as stupid as it is, is still possible.
pub player does go against a lot of cheesy and unfair things killers have, but they also have access to numerous unfair things on the survivor side along not having to play for the same wincon - you arent forbidden from running small pp combo or using new funny perks like shoulder or reassurance and if you sell your teammates to slugging blood favour coup ghoul and play for hatch, you arent really losing thanks to how the actual game recognizes the win condition.
rn im playing solo q with hyperfocus stakeout build just rushing gens in under 50 seconds and I doubt this would ever get allowed on any decent comp event and the killers Im facing have to keep up with that while most of them run builds that would get neglected even in comp rulesets
if we are talking about general balancing and dismissing valid suggestions because "what if my teammates are dumb" or "what if the killer is NOT dumb" then you kinda cant give more validity to anecdotal experience the complaining person has as back up for their complaints/suggestions and would have to reffer to the same method developers use - stats.
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Elysium got a variation of kidnap tech, banned, at least before the finals.
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completely different game that is greatly watered down in complexity.It's a completely different game, that's absolutely true.
It's watered down in terms of randomness and possibilities which is a little different than complexity.
If opening chests is so detrimental to your team, then why are they BANNED in DBD League?What they're going for is a game that takes out the vast majority of the random elements that DbD is built around.
I think the randomness and variability is one of the things that makes DbD fun, but I get that they're trying to do their own thing.
Yet I've seen so many players point to DBD League comp matches to support their balance argument with respect to normal Dead by DaylightPeople should not do this.
They also frequently misidentify what actually happens and instead go off what they've heard and not what is true, but that's a different discussion.
But by no means are they "the best" players in Dead by Daylight as the commentators state.This is probably true, though it's kind of hard to quantify. Killer, if we limited it to one killer, can be a little clearer, but if you were trying to determine the best survivor player in the world you'd need a very large sample to account for all the randomness that occurs.
This is because in the DBD League community they all tend to copy each others play style on both killer and survivor.This isn't that unusual for leagues of any types where certain strategies will go in and out of vogue with a few people leading trends and innovating and the others following along.
They're two very different games with DBD League being greatly simplified, which leads to a lot of repetitive and frankly boring, streamlined playstyles.I'm a big fan of DbDLeague and have watched pretty much the entire season. You are right that its a different thing and people should not compare them for multiple reasons.
I think it can still be discussed in terms of the overall game if people understand all of limitations that they have in place, which unfortunately is frequently missing from discussions.
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Comp DBD is just a show for entertainment, it has no real impact in the game and it doesn't really mean anything.
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If they ban certain addons or how many of what item can be taken. Then its reasonable to ban finding items with ban addons in chest.
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Comp DBD do this to come as close to have no RNG as possible.
This is also why they ban most perks that have random elements to them.
Side note: I do not believe that comp should work as an example of what DbD should be like, it is a separate thing at this point, and if we balanced based on comp rules, we'd have to delete half the game mechanics and lose most of the playerbase.
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Comp DBD should never be an argument for anything, because they have so many custom rules, that it isn't anything like public DBD games.
I really don't care how well certain killers do, when a gigantic list of custom rules is added to the game.
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Idk why you got downvoted but people love to ######### talk comp then in balance arguments they come up with "BUT 4 MAN SWF IN COMP DESTROYS X"
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bhvr really needs to give us the ability to control map seeds in custom games so comp is actually watchable
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I enjoyed my time in the comp scene.
I can't speak for it now, but most everyone I met back then was a good sport.
I think it has a place. People like to see high-level players go against other high-level players. I just don't think it should inform balance decisions much.
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I stopped taking this seriously when you complained about the opening chest ban. Of course they’re going to ban an RNG mechanic that can either give the survivor a free self heal whenever they want or literally nothing. Or even a key that can literally win the game for one team.
The rest of this post is nonsensical complaining and hatred on a community you can simply not interact with if you don’t like. And they’re officially supported by BHVR.
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