http://dbd.game/killswitch
So much for a “fog” vial
and this is with the iri addon post nerf.
”i think we did a pretty good job so far”
it also looked way clearer in game rather than this screen shot and i dont have any filters or anything on either.
Comments
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it is pretty bad like but it is alright meanwhile Clown still roaming free of unfun games
33 -
fog vials really went from actual fog on the ptb with the iri addon, to decently foggy on release to now just a slight filter change for the killer and survivors. tbh atp i don’t see what’s the point in running them.
41 -
With Fog Vials being worthless now, I'd like to see them removed from my bloodwebs to reduce the clutter.
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Another example. Me and @HeroLives were testing the fog vials post nerf.
This is from my perspective, and you can still make out the Sable, standing in the smoke. This is also with the iri add-on29 -
I really don’t understand why the community couldn’t get some time to adjust and learn counterplay for awhile before adjustments were made. Hasn’t that been the insistence with every killer release? I don’t understand why these items are held to a different standard.
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Wow this is pathetic. Why would anyone waste their slot for an item that gives the map a little temporary ambience?
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you’ll definitely see me in the fog 🤣 pun intended
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Yeah not gonna lie, I felt a bit embarrassed for the two survivors i came across using them this morning lol I already had no issues seeing through them pre-nerf so I had a good laugh to myself after seeing the opacity change. Sadly saw more toolboxes and flashlights instead.
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Exactly. The same people who usually say that Nerfs happen too quickly and that players have to adapt were those who now wanted the Fog Vials nerfed ASAP. And the Devs really should have waited a few more weeks instead of nerfing them at the first opportunity AND announcing a double-nerf as well. Obviously games would be full of Fog Vials for some time, this is simply new toy syndrome. And as long as the Item is not even close to Medkits or Toolboxes, there is not really a reason to nerf it. Yet they did.
I got one with Dramaturgy yesterday and the Nurse I was going against was not really impressed or bothered by it. (It also had the Visceral Add On)
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Yes, please. I don't even bring anything with me anymore unless there's a challenge so it feels like a bunch of stuff in the way of leveling.
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In a word…yep.
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A lot of people asked for giving vials charges only. Like, clearly, few seconds of disorientation isn’t bad until it happens your every chase lol.
I hope this terrible nerf will be reverted to the time they will bring charges to vials. I wish some Silent Hill moments still, even when personally my ears are bleeding because of muffled sounds and cause headache:(
Now we just have another contribution to us vs them war…
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Lol they were bad before regarding the strength, now they are nothing more than a wasted slot. I don't know on what the uses are limited now, but whatever they are should stay or if needed being adjusted, and for that the strength of the smoke increased to a point were it actually matters. I'd assume maybe 5-10% higher than before the nerf, then they should be in a good spot (of course only if there not an addon that already increases it by 10% or so that you use anyways, otherwise you probably don't see anything at some point).
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just dont play survivor anymore. why stress yourself. Just join killer, you will be better off
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The killers who complained about a bit of grey smoke on the screen are the same ones who would tell you to adapt whenever a killer or perk is released that is clearly overpowered, and that you should give yourself time to learn how to deal with them instead of crying about it.
If I have to wait at least 6 months before seeing a busted killer nerfed, why does it only take a week to reduce the opacity of a couple of grey spots?29 -
Patch 8.6.0
CONTENT
- New Killer - The Ghoul
- PTB ADJUSTMENTS
- The Ghoul
- Increased the base sliding effect from 0.4 seconds to 0.8 seconds, on par with Anteiku Apron effect.
- Decreased the Tentacle Vault time at pallet from 2.0 seconds to 1.5 seconds to be at the same time as Tentacle window vault.
- Retuned the Tentacle Swing system to minimize the power interruption during swings or dealing around obstacles.
- Decreased Enrage Countdown Timer from 60 seconds to 45 seconds.
- Decreased Countdown added Time Bonus when completing a perfectly timed grab-attack from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
- Addon Kaneki's Wallet: Increased the window bonus time from 1.0 second to 3.0 seconds.
- Addon Anteiku Apron: Decreased the sliding bonus effect from 100% to -50%.
- Addon Broken Chain: Increased the decrease Cooldown bonus from 20% to 35%.
- Addon Satchel: Increased the Third Kagune Leap bonus speed from 20% to 30%.
- Addon Taiyaki: Increased Enraged Mode Countdown bonus Time from 10 seconds to 15 seconds.
- Addon Hinami's Umbrella: Rarity changed from Rare to Very Rare.
- Addon Red Spider: Rarity changed from Very Rare to Rare.
- Addon Yamori's Mask: Removed the Healthy requirement from the activation.
Hotfix 8.6.2
THE GHOUL
- Reduced Tentacle range from 16 meters to 14 meters.
- Reduced Enraged mode time from 45 seconds to 40 seconds.
- Reduced Enraged bonus time when performing a perfectly timed grab-attack from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.
- Reduced Reticule Stickiness Time effect on targeted Survivor from 0.3 seconds to 0.18 seconds.
- Reduced Reticule aiming on Survivor detection for grab-attack by 94%.
- Reduced Grab-attacks Damage minimum distance requirement to activate over obstacles by -30%.
- After breaking a pallet, if the Killer Power is not in cooldown, power goes into a forced cooldown equal to a single Leap usage.
- Addon Fresh Coffee: Changed rarity from Common to Very Rare.
- Addon Hinami's Umbrella: Reworked Effect - Performing a perfectly timed grab-attack award an extra +10.0 seconds of Enraged bonus time and changed rarity from Very Rare to Uncommon.
- Addon Blood stained Handkerchief: Reduced Kagune's reach from 2 meters to 1 meter.
- Addon Taiyaki: Reduced the Enraged Mode countdown from 15 seconds to 5 seconds and changed rarity from Uncommon to Common.
- Addon Yamori's Mask: Added the activation requirement of "all Survivors further than 40m".
Ghoul literally had a giant list of nerfs going from PTB to Live, and then another giant list of nerfs soon after in a hotfix. There wasn't any "let's wait and see" for all these changes.
-30 - New Killer - The Ghoul
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Everything changes from PTB to live. That’s the point of PTB. Your argument is invalid.
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If the Devs just limited Vial charges in the first place and just allowed stratch marks to be seen in the fog it wouldn't have been so nerfed visibility wise
Also Fog Vials visibility weirdly got thicker or less depending on the map your on
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What would be the point if Scratch Marks can be seen in the Fog?
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It's such an useless item now. I would prefer to get those items removed instead of trashing the bloodweb
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Same here. I was happy about them retiring some Map- and Key-Add Ons to declutter the Bloodweb, now we have Fog Vials and their Add Ons which are new Bloodweb Clutter which will barely be used. (Let alone that Keys and Maps did not really become more attractive to use, but this is a different topic..)
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Not gonna lie I would prefer to take new nerfed maps and keys over those fog vials. It's funny that devs think that even the new rework for keys and maps are a buffs lol
It's so terrible thanks to new token system
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That’s the point I was trying to make.
Someone was claiming that fog vials were held to a different standard than killers, but killers often have major changes going from PTB to live.
-11 -
Has anyone tested these out with a reagent offering yet? And does that make any difference to their effectiveness? I'm hoping there's still some way to make the vials useful, because I've already spent millions of BP building up a stockpile of Fog Vials on my main.
Never been an item person, so it was a novelty to actually have something to spend my BP on and bring into trial (I only really take med-kits into Chaos Shuffle or when I put on silly meme/lore builds). Survivor was actually fun to play for 2 weeks but with these nerfs, it's back into Survivor retirement for me again.
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I said last week no one will be happy with them until they are made useless and here we are.
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I’ve tested it with the fog offerings. It’s very RNG if it helps, because the fog offerings create very random puffs of fog.
As in sometimes, it doesn’t help at all, and sometimes the fog-offering fog will completely hide the survivor.
-4 -
I cannot help but feel like the majority of players that had a problem with fog vials were content creators or their fanbases as a lot of them are or believe they are at top MMR with no consideration for casual players that deserve something to help them avoid chases if they wish
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yeah I won’t be running the fog vials anymore. Guess they will just sit in the inventory collecting dust.
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Thanks.
I suppose they could still be worth bringing (if you want to role the dice), but I wish they'd at least waited to fix their effects to be consistent across all maps before considering nerfs. If I'm being optimistic, these hasty nerfs might be temporary damage control that will be reversed once the vials have been given charges like every other item. I guess we'll see about that next week.
Maybe they found less Killers were queuing up and determined the Fog Vials were a reason for that. The streetwise bug and the current dumpster fire this patch has been overall might have more to do with players staying away, but what do I know…
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I personally have refused to play killer this entire chapter because of the fog vials.
There are too many maps where the fog effect is way too much, and too many specific places on other maps where the fog effect is way too much.
Also, fog vials are still miserable to go against if survivors use them when the killer doesn’t have line of sight, because the fog vials block survivor noises, scratchmarks, and auras, so it becomes a giant guessing game for the killer.
The worst part is that even though I super hate that it’s blocking all these non-visual tracking methods, survivors only care about the actual visual fog effect. Which means we all get to be miserable.
-19 -
bc there wasnt one?
- the only way to track someone was with blood stains they left and that is if u even got a hit first.
- and on quite a lot of maps the fog becomes even worse, especially on indoor maps, or one of the swamp map bc of the high "grass"?, or coldwind, farm meaning the fog is really inconsistent.
- and the obv accesibility issues
- all the survivors had to do was pre run and pop the fog vials, this way they can just straight up deny a chase.
- franklins got nerfed the only counter to items, so now all u have to do is just pick up the item and u can use it immediately.
- blood hound the only perk that can help u with tracking survivors in the fog, is just straight up bad.
- and fog vials just sraight up counters ALL OF THE RANGED KILLERS and thats just bs
- bc items and killers arent the same?
-11 -
I personally think they should adjust the opacity one more time to be in between this and the previous version of the game, and it will be alright, and obv limited uses at most like 3.
-11 -
The sad irony is that they were never going to be a super common item in "high MMR" anyway. Competitively minded players are almost always going to bring the strongest items to trial and I'm sure even the harshest fog vial critics will admit, the vials don't come close to toolboxes, med-kits or even flashlights in their potential effectiveness.
In theory, they might perform better in low MMR against less experienced / more casual Killers. But then again, there will be more than enough invocating Sables, urban evading Neas and Scoops Ahoy Stegulls in it for the memes to offset losing the odd chase or two because of a vial.
There was no reason at all to make them one tier above the old broken keys without an add-on in usefulness.
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Man, you can see through the whole cloud even with the ultra rare addon…
Can we rename these to Light Mist Vials in the meantime?
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Not all of them. Hens, Otzdarva, and some others liked the fog vial changes after the PTB. In fact, I was just watching Hens' livestream today and he said they are useless now. Killer can see all the way through the fog.
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They're gonna have to make a 1v1 killer vs killer mode at this rate.
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You’re talking about PTB changes, but my comment was referring to live gameplay, once something is actually in the game. That’s when the ‘give it time, let players adjust’ argument always comes out (which it rightfully should.) With Ghoul, like your example, when he first came out plenty of people said survivors just needed to learn the counterplay and didn’t believe he needed any additional adjustments. Behavior acknowledged the concerns or frustrations of players and reassured that they were monitoring it. My point is that the same was not down for this item. That same grace period was not given.
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BHVR didn’t do any of that. Shortly after Ghoul went live, BHVR released a hotfix where they nerfed 12 more things. I literally have those nerfs listed in the above post.
There were literally 25 nerfs that Ghoul got, before the “wait and see” started.
-14 -
Hey thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts. When it comes to your opinion about there being no counterplay, I feel like this is where we may just have to agree to disagree. Some of the worst examples people were sharing were due to players using filters or specific graphic settings that made the fog overwhelming. That’s more about how individual settings impact play. And, not that I agree there is no counterplay, but in general, there are many strong game elements that don’t have counterplay to the first use. For example, getting injured by a Ghoul’s first hit, or unhooking an infected survivor from Plague when you yourself are healthy and so is the rest of the team. There’s no counter to that first moment either, it’s just part of normal gameplay.
I do understand your point about the fog being worse on some maps, but honestly, this seems more like a map design issue than one with fog vials specifically. Chucky and Trappers traps are harder to see on swamp, or how there’s certain breakable walls that could make a loop much weaker or much stronger. That inconsistency has always existed, and we usually don’t blame the power/item, we blame the map.
Accessibility issues, 100% valid concern, and I’m with you here, but this is something that should be addressed with accessibility solutions (like a setting or toggle), not just nerfing the entire item outright. And it should be mentioned that there are many elements of the game that are also accessibility concerns like Nightfall on Dredge or playing as/against Spirit without reliable audio. In those cases, we usually advocate for settings, not blanket nerfs. And some of those issues may very well be the point as if you could see during dredges nightfall then there wouldn’t be a point in that power.
When you talk about how survivors just pre-run and pop the fog, I might be misunderstanding this point a little, so feel free to clarify. The fog only has value before the killer sees you, if it’s dropped in front of the killer during chase, it becomes mostly useless as it doesn’t actually obscure what’s up close. So if you take away the ability to use it before chase, but don’t make it powerful during chase, then it’s kind of… useless in both cases. What do you feel the “correct” use of it should be? Should it only be viable if dropped right in front of the killer? Or within a specific radius?
This also bleeds into another point you made about how It counters all ranged killers, Yes, because LOS is how you counter ranged killers and LOS blocking is the vials only function. If fog doesn’t obscure vision, then it’s just a particle effect with no value, and I’m not sure what role it’s meant to play in gameplay at that point. If it’s not for stealth or chase evasion, what should it be for?
I think you may have misunderstood me when you said that Items and killers aren’t the same. My point was that both affect balance, and both get nerfed/buffed. What I’m saying is that it is often advocatedto give new killers time before they receive changes. We let the community explore counterplay, test perks, find techs, and adjust. But here, with fog vials, it was not given the same kind of grace. That’s the inconsistency I’m referring to. It’s not about saying killers and items are identical, but about me feeling frustrated and confused as to why the community insists on patience and adjustment time with one, but not with the other.
To be honest, every complaint I’ve seen about the fog vials could be copied and pasted under almost every new killer release:•“It’s annoying to face.”
•“There’s no counterplay.”
•“It’s too strong on some maps.”
•“It’s too weak on other maps.”
•“It requires no skill.”
I’m not saying fog vials are perfect and I, as I stated, am not against changes being made. But I don’t agree with the same adjustment window we give the community for new killers not being given to the new item.
I believe that If these same mechanics were baked into a new killer’s power, and that they could spit out a ball of fog that did the exact same thing as the fog vials, the conversation would be “give it time”.That’s the frustration and inconsistency I’m pointing to.
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I was under the impression that changes didn't happen until after the first 2 weeks of his release. Patch 8.6.0 on April 2nd, and hotfix 8.6.2 on the 17th, meaning it was live for 15 days. That is the "wait and see" I was referring to. And if we're being completley honest I do not think comparing the release of Ghoul to the release of the fog vials is fair in terms of power. You may disagree and feel that fog vials are stronger than Ghoul but that will be an agree to disagree.
6 -
Wow how it can be that is bad 🤣
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Cause blocking all three major tells was a terrible idea and look where it landed
-13 -
Honestly, reading these comments makes me feel sad. I absolutely fell in love with fog vials from the moment they hit the PTB and think it would take making them smaller than Halloween event ones to make me think about changing my mind.
Yeah, the killer is gonna see you right in front of them base but it's been like that since the PTB. One of the first things I learned is that they're worst used when killer is close enough to see you in the fog and has line of sight (save for some scenarios). They're best to be used proactive to delay line of sight or potentially prevent it altogether.
There are a million uses I've found already that work perfectly with even this current version of smoke bombs. Whether it's dropping it right before going down to give nearby teammates cover, preventing slugging; or around a corner to throw killers off in chase; or running in a straight line for a while then dropping one and turning 90 degrees; or dropping it in a chokepoint/intersection of paths to make the killer play pick-a-door; or even, as I've coined, a fog save where you drop it by an injured teammate whose in chase, potentially making the killer chase you instead for a sec or get thrown off and getting the killer off your teammate.
One of my personal favorite ways is what I call "challenging" the killer. If the killer sees you in the distance and starts heading towards you, but you wanna get past them, you throw a smoke bomb and run towards them. You're basically trying to get by, essentially challenging them to a stand off. Will you run by them in a way that they don't notice, or will they find and catch you? That's the fun! It feels like throwing down the gauntlet in a battle of wits haha
But anyway, all that to say that fog vials are incredible as is and having TOO high of opacity completely ruins the experience for many anyway, so play around with what we got rn and see what y'all can come up with!
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There wasn’t a “wait and see”. Survivors complained non-stop during the PTB, and they continued to complain non-stop until the hotfix.
I honestly have no idea where you are getting the idea that survivors were patiently doing a “wait and see”. It didn’t happen.
BHVR also didn’t do a “wait and see”. There were so many nerfs lined up, that it took extra time to get them all in the hotfix.
-10 -
I think you may be misunderstanding what I meant by “wait and see.” I’m not talking about whether players complained, players always do. I’m referring to how the devs and community at large respond to those complaints. Take the Ghoul, which you brought up: he was live for 15 days before the hotfix came, and in a Reddit AMA on July 23, when asked if more changes were coming due to continued frustration, Jeff stated that Ghoul was on their radar, that they are aware of some friction points that they would like to address but that, because he was “still new to the roster, we are taking the necessary time to review everything before setting things in stone.” That’s what I mean by “wait and see.” If Ghoul still constitutes as being new to the roster then the fog vials absolute are too.
What I don’t understand is what issue you have with my stance. As I said I am not against fog vials receiving changes, but only after a decent grace-period in the game. Are you saying new killers don’t typically get that grace period I was talking about? If that were true, wouldn’t it be more consistent to advocate that all new content be given time in the live game to breathe before balancing changes happen? Doesn’t it make sense to want those things for the game?
You clearly feel they were problematic enough to warrant immediate nerfs, that’s your opinion, and that’s fine. I disagree. Perhaps we should simply leave it at that.
19 -
TBH when playing killer, I wasn't particularly impressed or bothered by the vials before the nerfs.
But if nothing else, it will suck if people stop using them because I just liked seeing something different, even if they're largely ineffective (granted most survs just don't use them optimally).
And I agree the nerfs were implemented too quickly.
8 -
Ghoul did not get an immediate grace period. BHVR literally gave Ghoul 25 nerfs before starting the grace period.
Likewise, it's absolutely fine for Fog Vials to get nerfs, before starting the grace period.
It's literally the same thing. The grace period for EVERYTHING IN THE GAME should start when BHVR is ready for it.
-14 -
It's fair to point out all the nerfs that The Ghoul received shortly after release and yet he's still a consistently popular Killer. He hasn't been given the Chucky treatment by BHVR just yet.
But the Fog Vials… Yeah, they've reportedly all but disappeared. I'm not playing DBD at the moment because I'm not happy with the state of the game, but I do still watch streamers play and I've seen only one today. To be fair, the Survivor got decent value but the streamer had pretty high gamma settings, so I think that's why it was more effective (we know they work better on certain maps as well).
In any case, the community seems to think that it's pretty much dead in its current state.
8 -
Yeah, they completely missed with this one.
Main issue was how the item was used, not the effect… Just give it charges and it would be fine.
7 -
They should just remove it. It's clear what they tried to do, they tried to offer an item that could help counter tunneling, even if it was only slightly - but then BHVR did what they always do: Cave to that vocal minority who refuse to adapt, while yelling about people needing to adapt to new Killers. That vocal minority is going to be the death of this game, and yet BHVR just continues to listen to them. It's truly a shame.
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