http://dbd.game/killswitch
So how do we counter medkits now?
Commiting to a down every chase isn't good for the lower half of the killer roster. Hit and run doesn't work because they just heal the whole chase away in about 10 seconds.
No current killer perk is good for anti heal. Before anyone says it, Sloppy Butcher only slowing the healing speed down by like 25% does extremely little.
Still not sure why Franklin's got gutted
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Leverage or Gift of Pain.
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Oh, I don’t know, maybe don’t whine to get new items nerfed to the point that they’re unusable… only to now come and complain that everyone is back to using med kits.
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Both things can be true. Sorry, but an item shouldn't be able to be used every chase with no drawbacks or limit.
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That doesn't do anything, if you leave a chase. Those works only if you down and hook survivors.
It simply does something completely different than Franklin's.
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Cool, lmk when this applies to Clown/ Kaneki.
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Gift of Pain is great, but it's too reliant on a scourge hook. Sure, I can make a build around it, but it's such a hassle to dedicate 2-3 perk slots for only items when I also have to take into account 16 perks.
Leverage is good against the unhooker healing the survivor, like We'll Make It, but if the unhooked survivor has a medkit then it won't work. Although it's very nice when it comes into play!
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It does? When did I say it didn't?
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You use your M1 or killer power if playing a killer whose power can damage survivors. Med-kits aren't infinite use items.
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That is true, my friend.
But unfortunately, hit and run isn't going to delay healing in the current meta if survivors have four medkits.
Yep, last time I played with Gift of Pain I got very lucky with Scourge Hook spawns and that might have won me the match, tbh.
Leverage is really useful when it comes into play. If the medkits are being used for altruistic healing, then this perk actually counters them. Self-heals though... yeah, not much that can be done against that.
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Personally I don't think Gift of Pain would necessarily be a Med-Kit counter (specifically Med-Kit) unless you're camping hooks since if they're not being chased immediately after unhook then the unhooker is probably going to be doing the healing. It's ok anti-healing in general though.
Assuming we're limiting ourselves conceptually to only countering healing that would be likely to involve item usage:
Weave Attunement maybe, provided they use up the med-kit on their self-heal. Franklins does still make the survivor drop their item so despite cries to the contrary, it's not like it does nothing.
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Frankly, you don't need to. This hysteria over a "healing meta" is just stupid - Survivors have always been able to heal. The reason you're seeing more people healing is because of how often Survivors can't even touch a generator because of the insane amount of Killer perks that prevent Survivors from playing. There are plenty of perks and Killer powers that even make healing a pointless endeavor too.
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They can be used only once... If anything med kits should be buffed.
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Best way is dont use perks that arent that good antihealing perks sucks only if you run whole build around antiheal with killer that can play this (hit and run is good but now they lack the preasure with this playstyle only killer that can hit and run without some downsides is ghoul), better way to counter them is plague but if you dont run solid addons and survivors are coordinated (they cleanse togeather and only in endgame on gates) you are cooked with gens or play stronger killer that can go throught health states fast or ignore them compleatly like billy. Anitiheal builds arent dead but there isnt single perk that can slowdown healing a lot alone in my opinion in curent state of the game. Fastest heals are after unhooks like in 4-6 seconds from my experience.
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You have some options, but the main thing I want to highlight is that medkits aren't actually broken at the moment- even with something like Botany a survivor is still setting aside noticeable time to heal, in some cases letting them do that is the better play.
Most of the really scary healing options aren't actually tied to medkits specifically, so other tools work better to counter them. For instance, the scariest healing option in the game right now is Resurgence, especially when paired with a medkit… but Gift of Pain counters that very handily in a way that it doesn't counter medkits on their own.But, if you want to counter medkits, you're generally going to look at making them take longer to heal, since outright preventing heals isn't that easy in general.
Perks like Sloppy are the lowest rung on this ladder- tools that are very passive but provide appropriately low rewards. If you want potent healing slowdown, you do have to work for it. Something like Coulrophobia can make healing up practically impossible in your terror radius, so it's good if you've got the game sense and/or info tools to know where and when someone's trying to heal, and something like Forced Penance will work if what the survivor's trying to do is bodyblock then heal up quickly— these tools have more niche/specific situations they counter, but provide much higher reward to compensate for it.Another thing you can do is mitigate the problem of healing to begin with. Chase perks make sticking on survivors to deny them downtime to heal more consistently viable, Exposed perks make healing up just a waste of time, Broken stops healing outright if you can consistently apply it…
Unfortunately you do have to evaluate what you're struggling with and what your available options are on your killer before more specific answers become clear.However. If you really do want to specifically hurt medkits in a very direct way, especially if you want something fairly passive, there are two basically alright answers:
- No Quarter. This perk seems to be designed specifically around messing up medkits; it gives a chance for any self heal to not be finished, and makes any interrupted heal waste a huge amount of medkit charges if that's what was being used. The first part is the passive part and is less likely to mess up good players, but the whole package is still there.
- …Franklin's Demise. The time it takes them to run back and pick up their medkit severely hampers the efficiency of healing with a medkit to begin with. Remember, their biggest strength is the ability to heal anywhere, anywhen— against Franklin's they're less potent at that. Franklin's still isn't very good overall, but just like before, it's most effective against medkits. Worthless against anything else, but it still does that.
Nothing you have is going to hard remove medkits from the games you're playing, but that doesn't mean there aren't answers. You just have to be more specific in identifying what effect medkits are having on your games.
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Med kits got a major nerf not that long ago. What is the problem now? When I play killer I really don’t see any issue with med kits. In fact, they are easier to deal with than they were before the nerf.
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They're a limited use item. I'm not saying they can't be strong but they're really not a big deal.
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Nobody has been able to explain to me how clown getting 2% more haste on his haste bottles and losing 1% slowdown on the hindered bottles suddenly makes him massively overpowered and a huge problem.
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Plenty of people have explained it, and in great detail. Your willful ignorance doesn’t change the facts..
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Near-instant activation on the yellows allows him to spam them mid-chase significantly more easily, and also has pushed more people towards actually using the bottles this way noticeably more frequently, creating a persistent problem that, while it did exist before, was less accessible and therefore less popular than it now is.
It's not unfixable and Clown deserves to be buffed in a way that isn't unhealthy for the game, but it's there.
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They have to be nerfed simple as that especially Syringe
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Sometimes it's difficult for people to remember that the side they play against isn't a collective hivemind. I wouldn't take it personally.
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I take it you don't hold this same opinion for the exorbitant amount of overpowered Killer perks or add-ons? Yes, let's just take away everything that can even remotely make it fair for the Survivors, that'll make people want to play the role and reduce the queue time for Killers.
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Depends what killer and addon your asking for to be nerfed
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I just think: "If they're healing, then they are not working on generators". It's extra time in my pocket, which often comes in handy later on.
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Just thinking, at this stage the only way to counter this is doing snowball and then trying to catch survivors on healing. Many people with heal meta are so oblivious so trying to heal when killer is nearby
But u have to be insane killer in terms of macro. And having some telepathy for guessing right every time.
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I love using Nurses Calling on my lower tier killers. Disrupts them a lot of the time unless they're in the corners of the map. But then again, I'm constantly moving around to be as productive/efficient as possible.
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Just saw the perk description for it today so dunno how good it is yet… but new Overwhelming Presence might be worth a look with a Sloppy/Gift of Pain build 🤔
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Franklins being nerfed into the ground combined with Vigil reducing the timers of all status effects makes hit and run pointless at the moment.
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Agreed. Please, heal all you want. Do anything except generators, and voluntarily.
We had these same kinds of posts before the circle and medkit nerfs, and then afterwards people went straight back to complaining about "people aren't healing and just working on gens" as if that wasn't the blindingly obvious result of nerfing healing.
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Hmmm... not so sure I agree. 😅
I take a bit more of a "extra health state means another 10 seconds to catch up to them after the post hit boost, then whatever extra time it takes to score a second hit for the down" viewpoint to see a net positive vs. gen repair.
Basically my 2 chases on that survivor have to beat the 32 seconds of survivor time occupied by one survivor healing another for 16 seconds to be a net positive. That seems quite manageable.
If they have a medkit, that's now 24 seconds I have to beat. Seems a bit tough.... but doable, though this doesn't account for the fact that the 16s the healing survivor would lose is instead freed to also be used to advance gens... so the net is actually worse... but sticking to 24s, it's no bad.
If they have Botany and a medkit, that's 16s, so I'm likely not making that, so I'm at a deficit most likely... its not even possible to interrupt and prevent the heal without directly tunneling as opposed to going after the unhooker, since the medkit doesn't suffer from.occupying 2 survivors hands.
If they have Botany, a medkit and Resurgence, that's 4.8 seconds I have to beat... not even possible, I'm in a deficit no matter what... I likely couldn't even interrupt even if I did try to tunnel unless I was camping uber hard, and camping is straight up throwing the game.
So can't say I can share that optimism that survivors healing is just time not spent on gens... the overall pressure the killer has takes quite a hit from even unbuffed medkits 😅
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I hope that "10 seconds" is a simple exaggeration and not a delusion. There is no way a survivor could heal themselves in 10 seconds. There is no way to get healed by a fellow survivor in 10 seconds if only they are not full healing build or they're very lucky at Autodidact skillchecks with 5 tokens.
Medkits are already nerfed, Toolboxes are nerfed, Flashlights are nerfed. Keys and Maps reworked to barely usable state. Map offerings got nerfed. Fog Vials just got nerfed. Everything to make a mediocre killer more impactful against a regular soloq.
If you make healing time ineffective, survivors will choose to spend it on gens. And then you'll cry about genrush.3 -
Learn to down them and don't hit and run, stop promoting boring playstyles, franklins - good riddance btw
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that would be the case if the healing didn't take 3 seconds tbh (4 or 5 with sloppy)
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Erm... that is objectively false my guy.
Self Healing:
- Botany + Medkit with Abdominal Dressing and Medical Scissors - 13.64s
- Botany + Desperate Measures + Medkit (no add ons) - 14.04s, 12.57s, 11.37s, 10.38s (depending on number of injured survivors)
- Resurgence + Medkit (no add-ons) - 7.16s
- Medkit with Surgical Suture and Needle & Thread - 19.58s, 15.28s, 10.98s (saves 4.42s, 8.84s, 13.26s) (1/2/3 great skills checks).
Altruistic Healing:
- Botany - 10.67s
- We'll Make It/Circle of Healing/We're Gonna Live Forever - 8s
- Autodidact with 1 skillcheck - 18.4s, 16s, 13.6s, 11.2s, 8.8s, 6.4s, 4.0s (for 0 to 5 tokens respectively)
Obviously you can combine a lot of these effects to even faster, but higher percentages are diminishing returns. Point being, it's quite easy to get under 10s with 1 or 2 perks and medkits with appropriate add-ons.
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Not to mention with speed addons he can have like 17% speed from single yellow bottle which is huge speed use it with purple on loops that cann be played with and you get almost guarantee hit if you dont mess this up.
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It's still time spent on getting other survivors whilst they have either to heal themselves, or find a kit, or find others. They're out of action for more than those times because of searching for a safe place or help or just hiding.
I do see the maths. In the field it's different though. I respect the research, so take my upvote, even if I don't agree.
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It really doesn't though.
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Fair, and I can't deny the maths doesn't paint the whole picture, it is largely considering an ideal sirvivor scenario... but I'm a pessimist, I tend to assume the Survivor team playing relatively efficiently and sensibly, not the goofy reality it often is 😅
Back at you man 😁
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Playing high tier killers or above isn't what I'm talking about, read my post. Yes, obvious Nurse and Blight dont care about medkits
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Yeah that was so random lol. People really think players cant play both sides and have opinions about both sides. Idk why my comment got so heavily downvoted
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Bro dodged my comment because he knows im right lmao
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ignore them, this the same person that said that conviction is fine, a perk that punishes the killer for not insta picking and said i should be ignored because is said the old fog viles didn't require any skills because i defend the fact people over blow kankei when it comes to balance
and i actually asked this question myself the moment they nerfed franklin's and i got about the same answers, use scourge hooks, which is really not an answer
but so far from every survivor game i played the answers seems to be TUNNEL THE LIVING HELL OUT OF SOMEONE (usually the weak link )
i literally haven't been playing killer at all something made me and several of my friends just stop with killer since the walking dead DLC, i dunno if the bugs or the fact i no longer can play the game without sweating
this community never changes, how dare u ask how to counter strong perks or items when "XXX" killer exists -_-
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I wasn't talking about high tier Killers either - there are plenty of perks, add-ons and base kit Killer powers that make medkits pointless. High mobility Killers like Blight, Hillbilly, Legion or Kaneki make it nearly impossible to even heal in the first place. Killers like Legion can put Survivors in a state where they need to mend. Killers like Leatherface have one-hit downs that last long enough to down all four Survivors if they're in close proximity to each other. Pinhead is another Killer who makes healing difficult because of his chains.
Perks like Nurse's Calling make healing a calculated risk. No Quarter makes healing even more difficult with continuous skill checks that can put Survivors into the Broken state. Septic Touch makes Survivors blind and exhausted. Leverage reduces healing speed. Those are just the perks directly linked to healing - there are plenty of perks and perk combinations not related to healing that make the concept of healing pointless because of how easy it is for Killers to find you.
Medkits are not and never have been the problem you people are making them out to be. Heck, not even toolboxes are as powerful as you people think they are. Survivors have nothing even remotely good, they only have things that slightly lessen the burden of BHVR horrible decision making.
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Pick one. How about one of the 65 aura reading perks? Or perhaps one of the 39 generator related perks? Or, how about Killers like Kaneki who have too much mobility? Or perhaps any of the Killers who have one-hit downs? And just pick an add-on, several give Killers too much of an unfair advantage that none of the Survivor add-ons even come close to giving.
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"I wasn't talking about high tier killers either" then mentions 3 high tiers killers and one of the 2 killers in the game that specialize in injuring.
Nurses calling isn't good unless you have high mobility capitalize on catching someone that close, which isn't great if you're forced to drop chase or they heal on hook. Be real, how many times have you ever seen No Quarter? I had to google what that perk was because I've never seen or heard of a killer running it, it's bad. Septic Touch is horrible, being blind and exhausted for 10 seconds is the definition of useless. Leverage doesn't affect someone healing themselves, which is what makes them so good. None of those perks make healing "pointless". Healing will always have a point except for Infinite Tier 3 Myers and Plague.
There's no way you genuinely believe medkits have never been a problem. Although that "you people" you threw in there tells me all I need to know lol
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Funnily enough, I've said numerous times on here that Clown and Kaneki are annoying. Clown legitimately needs a full rework because there's no way you make what his power is right now fun to face.
But yeah, killer is rough lately. Survivor has been much easier since the new chapter. I don't blame killers sometimes when they tunnel out weak links because going for 8 hooks before killing someone is just not really doable nowadays, especially on M1 killers.
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no need for a rework, just revert him back lol
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I will start by saying that one point I agree with you on is that Ghoul is still busted
You really think it’s “nearly impossible” to heal against Hillbilly or Blight? How have I managed to do it so many times?
As for Legion, their power is entirely designed to quickly injure multiple survivors and find them again to keep them from healing, but that’s literally all they have. It’s the only tool Legion have to slow down survivors and that’s only if they play incorrectly by healing. If you play correctly against Legion, which means not healing, they literally have have no other power and are very easy to beat. I just escaped against a Legion running Thana yesterday in solo queue on Midwich, a very small and killer-sided map. It’s not that difficult if you know what to do and what not to do.
You really seem to be grasping for problems that don’t exist.-1 -
No worries. 👍
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