http://dbd.game/killswitch
Power Creep
Serious question. Is the community cool with power creep if it means in the future on going projects of DbD it means we get cooler mechanics and abilities for BOTH sides? This obviously would be a slow process that rolls out over time as it takes time to make things.
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Is the community cool with the same rehashed stuff but in a different -font-
I personally am okay with power creep if it means survivors and killers get cool new mechanics and evolves the game a bit. Thoughts? Opinions?
Comments
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Power creep is just eventually untenable. Even if both sides get power creep, we'd probably be looking at embarrassingly short matches at some point. Plus, if some new killer comes out that powercreeps a bunch of old ones, and then the survivors get powercrept themselves to keep up with that new killer, all the old killers have to be revamped and overhauled to make sure they're viable again.
It's just a ton of work. I'm happy with more 'out there' ideas, but flat-out power-creeping is something that should be avoided where possible.
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They confirmed that the game has evolved past only being stalking and hiding and chasing is what it evolved to on reddit Q&A.
They didnt confirm whats coming exactly
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Powercreep is just lazy. You can add new interesting stuff without making it op.
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- It's impossible to introduce a "strong and useful" mechanic for survivors. I mean, we saw what happened with fog vials, even though they were just fun and not as strong as medkits and toolboxes. For the killer side, anything is possible; Devs always come up with interesting ideas.
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I heavily disagree killers need to be capped to a certain power threshold if survivors can not also evolve.
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Are u sure the new power creep is caused by new mechanics, rather than selecting the best from old killers and buffing numbers?
Imagine Onryo if she had no cooldown for her teleports like Springtrap and her tapes punished survivors. I bet, she will be one of the best killers for slowdown even still being weak in chase.
Ghoul is the only exception we got after blight (that was many years ago, so idk why many people believe the killer role is overpowered) and his high position is justified only because u can eliminate inexperienced players being inexperienced yourself, while other killers require some skill ceiling. It's not “power creep”, because if we compare Legion and ghoul they have similar designs (easy first hit + slow down by deep wound, as well as enraged/frenzy mode) in principle and they should be played differently. Power creep is about the same game style but with better numbers. I don't see it. U don’t play Dracula as a pyramidhead/spirit/wesker, u don't play springtrap as u should play huntress or onryo and u don't play ghoul as legion.
The illusion of power creep was created because after years of creating and asking for anti-systems of everything for killers people who play on them prefer buffed by numbers characters rather then better designed by mechanic (in my opinion), but weaker in number killers. Because who cares if onryo teleports seems so nice, and actually forcing interaction from survivors, while springtrap has infinites from the start?
And that’s the reason they don’t buff old killers. Because new one in comparison can start to look as some kind of cheap parody. And that's why u’ll never see buffed survivors, because I’m pretty sure no one wants to face only ghoul and nurse in their games, cause others will turn out being unplayable. Survivor’s queues already feels longer than killer’s, despite meaningless fog vial nerf
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I'm not sure its really something that can feasibly happen, but let's jump into it as a hypothetical:
So there are new killers and survivor perks that are stronger than old ones, but we get new and fresh mechanics.
Cons
Feels pay to win
The level of old perks / killers that would just be 'junk' would feel extremely silly
The transition period could be messy
Inevitably there will be some people who don't like the new mechanics
Asyms have horrible histories of success and this feels like a serious risk of upsetting a delicate balance
Lots of players have not yet grown bored with the mechanics so a change might be off putting.
Pros
More fun is more fun
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As a player, I'd take the risk, I can always play something else. Not sure why BHVR would take such a chance at this point though.
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Thank you. This is what I was looking to go back and forth with. I totally agree. I too would take that risk.
I think a good way to circumvent the disparity between old and new mechanics would be if you’re using new mechanics you don’t get matched with people using old mechanics on both sides. if they build a system that allows growth and separates the power differentials into essentially separate queuing lobbies. Not only would this be a way for newer players to get the hang of basic mechanics while not being bombarded with a million things at once, but it also allows existing players looking for a more classic loops that option.
I know I bring up nioh a lot, but I think even as a baseline single player game a thing it does flawlessly is drop you off on the base level to understand fundamental game mechanics. You’re not over powered and neither are your enemies. As you progress through the game and get more mechanical abilities and resources to manage your enemies do too. While this is a single player game, I think theoretically it could work for a PvP game through lobby isolation and mechanical set ups ie no mix and match.
Killers can get insane power mashups and abilities, and survivors can get counter mechanics. Obviously gens under power creep should be monitored to create a fair environment.Idk I’m just thinking out loud. I saw someone post they wanted a pole vaulting distance closing and range killer, and it sounds cool but idk how that would work without giving survivors a dodge roll ability or something, and obviously that would break the game against other killers. Unless it’s something that just comes baked into their kit that survivors get when versing a killer like that. Maybe that’s the give and take that needs to be put into the game concerning power creep? Do I sound absolutely mad?
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How is the current system not riddled with power creep? They certainly can't sell you the same killer twice or get you to buy the same old perks so they need to be new. And why would I buy a heal 10% faster by its self if I could buy the heal 25%
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Your definition of power creep is far to narrow ghoul is in fact just a better legion. Legions frenzy mode does not guarantee a deep wound like the ghouls power does. Legion speed is outperformed by the ghoul's lunges. Aside from tracking utilizing legions killer instinct the ghoul outperforms him in every aspect
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So, that’s why u play this killers differently. Legion (in his prime) supposed to play as massive slowdown for the team and constant map pressuring, so he is not pure chase killer.
Ghoul in opposite, have to play by chase, his map pressure can be good but he’ll get more value by having short chases.
Their mechanics seems similar, as well as their difficulty of play. But the only reason why ghoul is considered as power creep, is because he is simply better by numbers. Their design for actual gameplay is still different. If u buff legion to guarantee easy first him for him as for ghoul (like he can not be stunned/blind during his frenzy mode for his first hit), he maybe can even be better as ghoul himself, because he has killer instinct in addition. But yet, I’m pretty sure even after unimaginable buff both of them will be played different.
Same with Dracula vs PyramidHead. They are played absolutely differently by styles, but Dracula seem in tier higher because despite his power being nerfed by being unable to hit through textures, his power simply harder to dodge + he has incredible mobility and synergy with perks compared to phead. But if u give at least same synergy with perks even after caging (while survivors still deprived by activating theirs), for him, suddenly he will be actually overpowered killer and yet played differently compared to Dracula. Again, despite sharing something, they are absolutely different. Real power creep is when u get absolutely same character, same playstyle, by different numbers.
If we talking about actual meaning of term that came from collectables card games
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Maybe I'll explain why I still think it's power creep despite them filling similar roles but requiring different styles to accomplish it. Think about bicycles in most cases they have been totally obsolete by the creation of the vehicle. Both require completelt different methods of interaction to get them to work but 9 out of 10 times a car will perform better and faster then a bike. This is real like power creep. Yeah you can say legion has suburb tracking ability just like how a bike can go off road. But ultimately ghoul does it all better why does style even matter.
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Well, maybe I’m not really good in proving what I am thinking
So advising watching video from Straco. Small channel, but I am more likely to agree with his viewing of power creep
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We already have it. Most new killers have map mobility, anti-loop (sometimes multiple versions), tracking, and side quests, usually combining primary elements from multiple previous killers.
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well, game is kinda old, I doubt they can add something special for killers
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I think a good way to circumvent the disparity between old and new mechanics would be if you’re using new mechanics you don’t get matched with people using old mechanics on both sides.Aren't we just in the territory of new game modes then (I'll get to Nioh in a moment)? This is something I think a lot of people would like them to explore more, but once we start separating groups we're out of balance discussions and whether it is worth the time investment for new modes compared to focusing on the base game.
While this is a single player game, I think theoretically it could work for a PvP game through lobby isolation and mechanical set ups ie no mix and match.Well its just not a PvP game, its an asym PvP and balancing a single "level" of player experience is pretty tricky as is.
In a sense, they conceptually already have access to this in the game but they don't really commit to it and most people don't like the idea. You have killers like Wraith who are easy to pick up and play, but falter later on (arguably not as much as he should), while other killers like Dracula require more game experience before playing and have more powers, but more things to go wrong.
On the survivor side players move from basic info perks because they're just learning maps and gameplay elements to perks that provide higher values, Dead Hard being the best but far from the only example. There are also the perks that require learning teamwork and playing together.
I'd be fine if they actually leaned into this design more, but people tend to hate the idea of tiers and its one of the most common complaints.
a pole vaulting distance closing and range killer, and it sounds cool but idk how that would work without giving survivors a dodge roll ability or somethingWell this gets into a different discussion about game themes and to what level DbD should be an action game. To a degree I think they tried to explore things like this in Deathgarden, but, unfortunately in my opinion, it was a failure.
Unless it’s something that just comes baked into their kit that survivors get when versing a killer like that.We already have that with items and props that are specific to killers
Though again this opens up another possible balance issue. Alien is a good example putting a new mechanic into the game. The problem is that once the survivors really get used to it, the Alien really drops behind. That's the nature of asyms, the balance of power tends to shift as players gain experience (in my opinion, which I'm trying really hard to separate out here, I think this might be an inevitable part of asyms).
Maybe that’s the give and take that needs to be put into the game concerning power creep? Do I sound absolutely mad?Actually I think what you are discussing is in many ways what BHVR wanted, though there are also code limitations to some suggestions.
I think that BHVR really wanted killers to be in Tiers. You start with Wraith and Trapper, eventually you get to a point you can't progress anymore, move over to killers like Plague until you can't progress anymore, then go onto killers like Nurse and Blight. That's part of the reason I believe we used to have difficulty levels given to the killers.
Except people didn't like it and determining which mechanics are difficult or not has always been a struggle (i.e. Billy being slotted into a beginner level and I think OG Skull Merchant was listed as Hard).
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My conclusion: I think modes/modifiers are the more practical way forward for this idea and I hope they increase the variety that they have. I don't think having differing levels of structured play is conceptually a bad idea as a hypothetical, as a reality I don't see how it could be coded in a practical manner or how the player base could be convinced of such a switch.
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Unfortunately Power Creep has been happening pretty continuously for the past 2 years.
We've had a bunch of killers released or buffed into A and S tier back to back since Chucky, such as Unknown, Vecna, Dracula, Houndmaster, Kaneki, Springtrap. Killers seem to only want high speed Dash/teleport killers with no actual macro skill that can brute force map control and tunnel with impunity (despite pretending that every survivor buff is broken, which they are for normal killers, but not the dash trash they actually play). Any notions I had this wasn't true is dying with the recent Grimoir poll that is highlighting that people want yet another dash killer for the "Fallen Angel".
Meanwhile Survivors keep getting stronger and stronger buffs to perks, basekit abilities and items (despite largely refusing to acknowledge it and trying to play victims as well) to keep up with this trend of stronger killers, which in turn makes it so the weaker killers need substantial buffs as well.
My recent experiences of DBD have pretty much been: -
- 90% of my survivor games are against A tier killers, unless it's a lower tier killer with an incredibly obnoxious build and very hard to beat unless I'm running meta.
- My killer games (largely as m1 killers) are split evenly with people using typical WoO, Lithe, Decisive Strike builds with flashlights, that are tough but managable, or people making use of all the best toys survivors have and completely running me over.
I want to stress I'm having fun, and I beleive there have been a lot of good things done witn DBD in rlthese laat 2 years... but if the trend keep going how it has been, I'm getting a little concerned.
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Best evidence for Power Creep is Huntress and Wesker... cause they were always considered A tier killers and somewhere in the top 5.
Despite neither really changing significantly (a good Wesker doesn't need Hindered, and Huntress even got buffed...) I don't think many people drop then in that tier anymore, and both already certainly not even in the top 10 killers anymore.
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I just hope one day we get Jason, and I honestly cant see how they'd power creep him or give him any sort of new mechanics or abilities. As someone who primarily enjoys M1 killers, i hope he's just a stealthy slasher if (or when, if you ask me) we get him.
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