http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why the silence on Franklins Demise?
Gutting the one true counter to medkits with no explanation or extra benefit to the nerfed version? It's sloppy.
Comments
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I think they hope players just stop talking about Franklin's
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Pre-nerf Franklins was super annoying and pretty strong, but from the killer perspective there isn’t much else available to counter a team all bringing strong items. As is usually the case, it was overnerfed and is basically useless now. It needs to have at least some effect on removing charges from items to make it worth using.
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Ikd why they gutted it like this but its clear now they will play it like nothing happened and it all depends how big part of community will complain about this let me tell you maybe the killer side which is like 40% of the community and the one they listen last.
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I mean, they're being pretty silent about the poor reception of this update in general.
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They probably dont want to deal with this overblown topic, because they think that it is exactly that - overblown.
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I've seen plenty of complaining about it. More for Franklin's than for old Streetwise, which is also ruined. Revert them both.
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Franklins should instead teleport the item to a random location with its aura always revealed to the survivor. Lol
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Yeah, that's just another completely useless perk. Like we don't have enough of them.
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Eh, what's the point? It had pretty obvious reaction on PTB and they still came through with it.
Watch at Knock Out rework, literally every CC and player here said on PTB that it's pure garbage, you think they care? Another killer's perk went into trashcan.
Idk, what's going on with killer perks is pure tragedy. Not only we didn't see really good killer perks in years, but they keep deleting perks again and again, while buffs are nothing burger mostly.
Overwhelming Presence probably the only recent reworked perk you can pick on any killer and get at least some value. Not just play 5 matches and hope that perk will do something, not just equipe it on 2-3 specific killers which has some synergy with it, not something just does nothing whole game while buffing survivors. Just good universal perk you can see a little value every game. Not even strong or something, just working and giving a little value. It's already praiseworthy by current measures.2 -
Because people absolutely hate Franklin's and will deny that Medkits (the main reason you run Franklin's) are still overpowered with things like suture addons, extra charges, insta heals and styptics (even then Franklin's needed the full 90 seconds on the ground to counter the last 2).
There is no perk that made people more upset than Franklin's, like even grim, pain res and DMS together are tolerated somehow. But the moment they drop their item against the m1 killer? instant DC. Franklin's is also a big cause for rage quitting in my experience as I get far more early DCs with Franklin's than without.
You can also tell people hate it just with a large part of the reception to the nerf being "Good, it was annoying/op/unfair/unfun etc". Not saying that the nerf is justified (it isn't), but unfortunately so many people hated it that they've probably pleased more people than angered.5 -
BHVR tends to push out a widely disliked change and then wait years to do anything about it.
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The devs have a habit of this. When Boil Over was buffed, it became overtuned and oppressive on specific maps, such as the old RPD Library and other upper levels without a Hook. Then they nerfed Boil Over, added Hooks to upper levels, and opened up some spots to make the path to a Hook shorter. They often overdo it, going too far too fast prematurely.
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It needs a full rework. It's pretty useless in it's current state but pre-nerf it wasn't a healthy perk.
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It honestly feels like they're hoping to compensate killers by giving the new releases power creep, which is why Ghoul is as strong as he is (high A tier imho). This naturally does nothing because not everyone wants to play new killers, they want to play their favourites and mains. Which is a problem because survivor perks are so strong now, that even a team of two 2-man SWF can roll any killer below A Tier.
So any killer player who wants to even have a decent hope of getting any satisfaction, fun, or just wanting a decent amount of BP from a match they have no choice but to learn how to play the A Tier and above or employ unfun tactics that survivors dislike, just in order to scape by with a 1-2K in the end. And that's if SBMM/MMR is even working correctly, because there's a high likely hood that both killer and survivor teams will get matched up against fresh installs or players with only a handful of hours, which is borinng for everyone.
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Syptec and syringes have the easiest counter in the game count to 5 done countered and their is 0 insta heals syringes take like 15 seconds to trigger it not even close to instant and their tons of counter to med kits anything that has mangled in it name BUT let's be real here because 1 perk could delete all items is what u were worried about the perk was unhealthy 100% and med kit have easy counters and toolboxes been nerfed again and again and the rest of items in the game are basically usless now with the rework stop being like it about balance it not u abused and overtened mechanic for years and are so relient on it without actually try to counter them without the perk amd Franklin's and weave still exzist it is deadly pressure eather see their auras all round or they are oblivious for 60 seconds win win
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They need to revert all recent changes that nobody likes:
Keys and Maps changes, the new charge system
Streetwise
Franklin's Demise
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Does it ever occur to killer players that Med-Kits are there to counterplay how much and how fast killers can dish out damage? Why does everything a survivor brings or does need a counterplay, even if those things are themselves counterplays? How far down the counterplay chain do you want to go?
Ok, say I play a survivor and bring a Med-Kit to compensate for the fact that I'm solo queue, can't call out on comms for a heal, and can't rely on my teammates to be where I want or do what I want to heal me up. Not because they're bad, but because they're not telepaths. I also build for this by bringing Botany Knowledge so I know I can get 1 self heal off from a Med-Kit. I'm already counterplaying all that BS, now you want to counterplay my counterplay by bringing Franklins, hitting me, and ruining my item. Ok, so what's my counterplay to that? Or do we now call it a day once your needs are satisfied?
Additionally, if your complaint is styptics or syringes then those work with 1 charge left so I'm not sure what you think old or new Franklins is going to do any differently from each other there.
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On other post people told me that FD is toxic and items on survivors never should have counterplay, because if people bring them to the trial, it meant to be used. Same with current conviction btw. They just don’t want counterplay to exist, because how dare u simplifying match while they doing completely the same.
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So what's the counterplay to Franklins?
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Not bringing an item and taking a gamble on chests.
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Yeah, I wouldn't listen to those types of players, as they're the type to become hyperbolic over everything in the game. Hell, they're probably the type of players who say that a killer using M1 in the open is toxic. Or Survivors using items/perks at all is toxic.
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Franklins doesn't work on chest items?
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Anyone notice they nerfed all 3 of leatherface's perks? Barbeque used to have the extra bp incentive, knockout used to help killers avoid hooking the entire game, and now franklins cant empty the one guy's brown medkit he couldve used to heal himself later
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Don’t rely on items, because as well as lightborn this perk doesn't deny your ability to do main objectives?
Survivors meta is a way to deprive killer pressure. Killers meta is a way to deprive survivors resources. That’s a constant switching top role competition between two roles and denying optional counterplay is ridiculous.
U can’t prevent gen regression as well as killer can’t prevent healing. But u can make it harder to deal with. That's the point of gen rush perks or anti heal meta. And god damn, literally no one cares on opposite side struggling because it's competitive game! Your opponent never cares because u playing solo or when u faced with 4 sfw. And they shouldn’t . Because they didn't forced u to play with them.
Stop imposing imaginary rule set to justify personal struggling until another perk/killer power/item doesn't break core mechanic and can be abused. FD isn't equality of old eruption, or other broken perks.
Actual unhealthy example is the current clown changes because it's deny any skill on him, while it’s so hard to counterplay in comparassion. Or current conviction who in stack of 2-3 other perks can work not as anti slug how it supposed to be, but denial of hooks after survivor lost chase if killer accidentally stuck in animation or were forced to be distracted. Because it takes cheap 7 seconds.
U want to hear counterplay of FD? Personally, after I noticed killer have it and if I were able to rescue my item I put it on specific side of the map. So after hit I can return to the left item safely and heal myself. If it was toolbox I use it instantly to not lose charges. I do it for my teammates in solo even. It makes harder to use items, but not impossible. And that's the main point of perks on opposite side. Isn't? But current FD provide this “counterplay” for free. So, maybe it’s time to stop behave like FD after triggering don’t let u heal for the rest of the trial? Like it was unhealthy game breaking bs that can define how game will finish?-8 -
I mean the BBQ change was needed and it doesn't affect gameplay. It was silly that you had to buy a DLC character to basically halve the grind as killer. Knock Out was problematic for solos while SWF could easily play around it so I don't mind it getting nerfed, but this Franklins nerf was uncalled for. Sure the perk was a bit annoying but what ways does the killer have left to deal with the most powerful items now?
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they nerfed insidious long time ago …
(Probably the true 4th perk for old bubba’s mainers)
The unloved child in the family, it turns out xd
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drop the item…..
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So give them half the effect of Franklins for free. That's your suggested counterplay? Just do it for them.
Right.
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Yep, this too. I see how many perks released with keeping in mind Nurse, like Phantom Fear, for example, what does its job ten times worse than old good SpiesFTS.
Or Haywire nerfed into literally nothing because Singularity exists.
And somehow it's not the case for survivor perks and I can realize so much stupid and unfair perks just because I play with friend or friends.
Running with 12% Haste whole game? No problem.
Go down under a pallet and put killer into lose/lose situation every time? Easy.
Making hit and run killers regret they started match with just 2 healing perks equipped? Not even a question, other killers won't be happy too, I promise.
Non-stop wallhack on third part of the map with Reassurance, impossible to hook with Expo, body blocking whole match? So many things I can abuse with friends and there are more and more opportunities with every chapter. Meanwhile killers perks: I can create illusion of doing something, hooking and pick up animation are faster now! And look and at this Hex you need to stack whole game to get results worse than Blood Favour does from the start of the match. Do you like us?
Absurd and nothing more.1 -
dropping the item makes its lose charge?
what?
are we talking about the same game here?
the whole reason franklin's was hated was not the item dropping but the fact it made it lose charge ???????
yea made me drop my item, woopty doo, im just gonna pick it back up, the whole franklin's thing was the charge lol
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You drop items by simply putting them down, it's literally how you counter Weave Attunement. By just placing the item down far away from you, especially if it's a medkit.
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I think they're confusing terminology here. In that they're using "drop" to refer to survivors manually placing their items down, and it being knocked out of their hands with Franklins.
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dropping the item makes its lose charge?
Sure doesn't. That's why I said HALF the effect for free. HALF.
the whole reason franklin's was hated was not the item dropping but the fact it made it lose charge ???????
Was that the whole reason Franklins was hated? Did you take a poll? How many Survivors responded?
yea made me drop my item, woopty doo, im just gonna pick it back up, the whole franklin's thing was the charge lol
No matter how many killer players say 'oh, dropping your item in some random freaking location is perfectly fine - it doesn't inconvenience you or otherwise prevent you from using the item in any way!' it's simply not going to be true.
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The input binding for the Survivor action to place their item on the ground is literally called 'Drop Item'.
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No one tells it should be simple. People asking why they should picking perk for a slot while this isn’t making stuff complicated for opposite side lol.
This “killer players” usually play survivor even more often than u think lol.
And then people complain while killer bring full aura or slowdown build. I wonder why
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….why the hell do u think franklin's was used to begin with it?
for the "DROPPING THE ITEM IS OP" ?
it was for the charge nobody cared it dropped the item unless the whole play style was an item thief…its pretty obvious from both sides…otherwise if dropping the item was as op as u make it sound nobody would have protested and said DO NOT CHANGE IT in the ptb…. just to get ignored
so..u don't wanna learn to counter franklin's and u don't wanna learn map knowledge just in case the killer has franklin's…?
what is your solution here, just let the killer have no counter play to broken items, because REASONS?
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If med kits, toolboxes, or whatever have you are overpowered, a perk should not be the solution to that. Otherwise perks and items exist to counter other perks and items, and that absolutely sucks. At that point the game is a rock paper scissors match that started in the loadout menu instead of the actual match.
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I hope they close this thread, calm down already, an adequate non-toxic killer will never take this perk!
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for me it's fine can be paired with weave still
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I doubt devs will ever nerf builds around items because it will kill build for last for instance and other perks along with items
It’s completely fine to provide people perks and strategies to counterplay. Game always was about How lucky your RGN is
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so picking up a perk to win is all the sudden toxic…?
wut.
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Same with 3 gening and gen kick perks,skullmerchant nerf all they should do was just give gens limit how many times can it be damaged now its 8 and then it wont regress but they nerfed so many things and then added this.
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….why the hell do u think franklin's was used to begin with it?
To deprive survivors from being able to use their items.
for the "DROPPING THE ITEM IS OP" ?
I never said it was OP. I have said that dropping an item does cause a survivor to not be able to use that item. They might be able to get it back sure, but until they make that effort, spend that time, and take that risk - they can't use it.
it was for the charge nobody cared it dropped the item unless the whole play style was an item thief…its pretty obvious from both sides…otherwise if dropping the item was as op as u make it sound nobody would have protested and said DO NOT CHANGE IT in the ptb…. just to get ignored
Again, I'm not arguing dropping an item is OP. I'm arguing it's adequate for the purpose of the perk. You also seem to be ignoring all the posts from the PTB that supported this change.
so..u don't wanna learn to counter franklin's and u don't wanna learn map knowledge just in case the killer has franklin's…?
I simply stated your solution isn't a good counter to Franklins. Dropping an item is literally doing HALF of what the old Franklins did for free - there is no arguing against that, it's literally true. Map knowledge is irrelevant - knowing where my item is doesn't get it back into my hands if I manage to break chase. Going back for your item is not risk free. So yes, dropping an item is doing half the work for the killer and you are incorrect in stating otherwise.
what is your solution here, just let the killer have no counter play to broken items, because REASONS?
If you're so afraid of somebody being able to heal themselves with a Med-Kit and you can't be bothered to take even 1 more swing at them to erase all that scary healing then you can run current Franklins. If they drop their item, they can't use their item.
You could also just ignore it like I do in my killer matches. I seem to do just fine myself without caring whether someone brought a big, spooky Med-Kit. Flash lights are more annoying than anything but I'm not so afraid of them that I'm trying to knock them out of my opponent's hands or eat up their charges.
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To be fair, not every change requires a direct response. Not even every bad change requires a direct response.
That said, Franklin's definitely needs a new second effect- not a reversion, of any kind, a new effect that's at least not unhealthy for the game.
A little late to this comment but I have to disagree that we haven't had good perks in years. Jagged Compass, Languid Touch, and Friends Til The End are all just down-the-middle good perks that work on a variety of killers, you really don't have to scrounge around for good picks— if you're willing to cede a few points like working in specific builds or on specific killers, there's a lot more
Perk reworks tend to be much more hit and miss, for sure, but it's important not to overlook all the small number-change type buffs we get to perks that raise their profile. Killer perk variety is definitely not suffering right now.4 -
Bringing Built to Last. Franklin's was never an issue for me. I actually had no idea it was this hated/relied on. I just picked up my item and went in a locker. Did it for my friends too.
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why not make it that it removes addons . and then when all addons are gone i looses charges per hit or something
maybe make it that every second hit on a survivor uses franklins ( hit 1 activates it )
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would u kindly tell me what killers you play?
If you're so afraid of somebody being able to heal themselves with a Med-Kit and you can't be bothered to take even 1 more swing at them to erase all that scary healing then you can run current Franklins. If they drop their item, they can't use their item.
you serious…?
do you know how many factors playing to this?
medkit quality, addons, maps, perks, but yea let just hit them one more time and oh whatchu look that they just got 4 chained windows in lerry's im sure hitting them another time will be very easy and simply as an m1 killer :))))))))
and its not just about medkits its also toolboxes too
i would rather have 3 flashlights than medkits or toolboxes because with those at least i can't die inside when i see a 6 second heal from one person while im just walking back to hook, or a 20 seconds gen in ONE chase.
I simply stated your solution isn't a good counter to Franklins. Dropping an item is literally doing HALF of what the old Franklins did for free - there is no arguing against that, it's literally true. Map knowledge is irrelevant - knowing where my item is doesn't get it back into my hands if I manage to break chase. Going back for your item is not risk free. So yes, dropping an item is doing half the work for the killer and you are incorrect in stating otherwise.
its "half" a solution of not getting half the charge of your item getting removed and 90% of the time going back the item is risk free unless as i said the killer is an item thief build
and ignoring things in this game, is simply not a solution to anything at all.
and let's be honest they didn't change it because it was "unhealthy" they changed it to cut corners instead of coding for fog viles.
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well we could ask for a nerf or at least a bit of tuning to toolboxes and medkits but then anyone who will ask for that will get downvoted to oblivion and told "survivors are weak and need every advantage" even tho everything has been overtuned for the past month and items are not suppose to carry but help you and same for perks, but oh well…
u could just tunnel but then u would be called noob and u have no skills
i don't think people realize that m1 killers cannot get 8 hooks anymore lol
i literally impossible to play nice because if u do u just gonna lose 3 gens in like 2 chases, unless map says otherwise
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I think it's a leftover hate from where people would bring anniversary items, the killer would hit them with Franklins and force drop the item, the item once it lost all its charges, would then be removed from the game. So they were upset they lost a "limited-time item," at the start of the game.
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Going by a lot of the complaints in this thread, "perks shouldn't counter items" is the main argument as to why Franklin's was so hated, that and it used to delete items from the match after they lost their charges, so people were upset that they lost rare "limited-time items" to Franklin's.
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