http://dbd.game/killswitch
This needs clarity and it needs clarity now.
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
These 2 things are going to ruin the game for killers
Before anyone wants to comment "just don't tunnel" think about it. Killers are now FORCED to play by the survivor handbook and hand free wins effectively to them.
If you kill a survivor too fast then boom free gen progression for everyone. This means your damned if you do and damned if you don't. you kill someone because its the optimal play at the time then woo you got a kill but now all gens are gonna fly a little faster on top of whatever buffs it already has.
Then the way this reads sais that every time you kill a survivor and you find a gen near by thats nearly complete then uh uh uh you can't regress that gen to hopefully stop it popping meaning you have to just sit and wait for whatever timer BHVR decides to put on this (because in classic form no figures are released) and while your waiting other gens are flying.
Now im not saying that tunneling is fine and i agree with the masses that any killer who goes into a game and hardcore tunnels a survivor needs to maybe find another game to play because clearly this isn't the game for them but i can tell you from experience that sometimes you end up tunneling someone just because its the person you find. Not because you have gone out of your way to hunt them down or because you have gone back to hook to tunnel them. Its just the natural way that game has gone..
On top of this killers can no longer see the hook state of the survivors. So if your not taking notes you could end up tunneling without realizing. Even now I will hook someone and think Damn how are they dead what happened. not realizing i had multi hooked them because im just chasing whoever is around.
So please behaviour you need to do 2 things.
Firstly you need to give more information because right now assumptions have to be made, and they are made based on previous changes made
secondly more thought needs to go into anti tunnel because based on the dev update these will really harm killers who don't tunnel intentionally and suffer from survivor induced tunneling.
Comments
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Yeah my biggest issue with these changes are. Low-mid tiers can't reliably hook multiple people even with proposed changes to going for unique hooks. This means more often than not they get 1 kill before 6 stages happened meaning they then get a repair speed bonus and if you so happen to find the person on death hook that is your most recent unhook you are now FORCED to leave them alone on the floor if you want value out of your regression/blocking which with any semi-efficient team that's a lose-lose situation.
In order of events I personally would have went with maps, survivor perks/basekit then suggest a tunnel change like this.0 -
I can barely do 4 unique hooks to trigger my Grim.
On high mmr matches of course.
Its often i always find same survivor i rehook without tunneling or slugging.
6 is brutal lmao it should be 4
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They were introduced specifically to discourage tunnelling.
Without them, the killer could easily tunnel as if nothing had happened, simply waiting for the collision loss timeout.0 -
I think you might've misread part of it, regarding no longer being able to regress generators.
It's not - as I understand it - that it's any time you kill a survivor, it's if the survivor who was on hook last is hooked again + killed.
To put it another way, imagine your last four hooks look like this: Jake most recent, Dwight before him, Meg before him, Claudette before her. Now imagine they're all on death hook.
If you hook JAKE, you're locked out of regression. If you hook anyone else, regression still works for you.
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discourage tunneling sure but there are 2 types of tunneling. now if you find someone you previously hooked or happens to be on death hook then you are forced to leave them and try and find someone else which means you will be basicly throwing the game to be the nice killer.
I have a real worry as someone who runs Devour Hope that given at 5 stacks devour hope allows you to mori the next down it means that im basically called a tunneler because ive killed before 6 hooks.0 -
Regardless though even if you do trigger the kill before 6 hooks never being able to damage a gen you might as well hand the win to the survivors. Faster gen speed and can't kick to regress them meaning so many perks are useless.
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The six hooks part gives survivors a repair bonus, it doesn't lock you out of regression.
That part is also just "don't tunnel", for most killers. It might negatively affect a handful depending on how it handles their powers, but for the majority that part really is just "don't tunnel".
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Exactly.
Not many people read my post i main myers im at 78-81% killrate with him.
I main non tier 3 meta stuff mainly tier 2.
I always stumble upon same person i dont tunnel on purpose and what happens if the survivor goes afk and doesnt want to go away from hook?
So many plotholes not thought through.
Its already hard as it is in high mmr lobbies where u cant find 1 or 2 players to complete certain perk requirements such as grim embrace or pain reso
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Yeah but what about high mmr lobbies where you cant just simply NOT go for the person that stumbles upon where u rotate as a killer?
Like do i purposly go out of my way not hooking them and waste my precious scarce time and look for other survivors and by the time i find last 2 to complete unique hooks what then?
Am i then not allowed to touch that fourth one i just hooked as unique hook?
Like what the hell even
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This change also likely just make killers that are behind into a lose-lose situation. Let's say 2 gens are left and killer only has 1 or 2 hooks. That situation the killer needs to tunnel someone out but then the killer gonna get punished by this new system so the killer is screwed and will lose the match either way with no chance of a comeback.
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Rotate…?
Anyway, the rest of the update does include stuff to help you find survivors. Basekit info on where other survivors are and Haste to get to them quickly is really useful on paper, it'll set up killer pressure significantly easier. It's a giant buff and the closest to "handholding" any patch over the past few years has included, you'll be doing just fine.
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wait time out i think i'm illiterate with that last part
>if the survivor that was last hooked is sacrificed or killed generators can't be regressed or blocked
what does this mean? it's vague
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I don't mean this to sound petty, but after the last 3 years I think it's fine that Killer is forced to play in Survivor's favor for at least one patch. Who knows if these changes are going to stick or not. But I would like to at least see if the game feels better as a result, what happens with kill rates, etc.
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And what if no one rescues them? They die on hook and if you wasn't quick enough to get another hook in (2 mins If I remember right) then they are your last hook and survivors get both bonuses, faster gen speeds and no regression. Can happen in a 3-man swf where they let the random die just to get bonuses.
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Imagine your last hook was Jake, and you're out looking for someone else. Jake comes off the hook, and he's now on death hook, if he's hooked again he's dead.
If you return to Jake and hook him without hooking anyone else in between, you're locked out of regressing and blocking generators.
That's how I interpret it, anyway.
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I have no idea?
This is the kind of thing we'd test on the PTB, nobody's gonna have answers for that yet.
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- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
is the only one I really am currently against. Yes if these changes go through tunneling would be a horrible decision but im fine with that cause its better if the optimal way to play as killer is also fun to go against. The reason this is worrisome is cause this sentence alone doesn't indicate it will only work with tunneling. Yes it effects tunneling but if I as a killer 8 hook survivors so now everyone is dead unhook then I didnt tunnel. Lets say I hook someone now killing them and have pop goes the weasel or I saved painres on them, now I cant regress the gens even though I played incredibly fair and so now they might pop the last gen cause I couldn't regress it.
If this only activates when killing someone before getting 6 hookstages then im fine with it but that clause is only mentioned with the other mechanic and not this one, but we'll see.0 -
If they let that survivor die, it means you're winning the game...
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so basically people on death hook can slam gens with no downside. so now you can run a gen rush build and specifically leave them on hook to 2nd stage and the killer cannot hook them again or their screwed also pair this with shoulder + vigil to do it again you can just enforce a toxic playstyle
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Yeah rotate zone out gens and locate survivors.
Yes i have read the rest of update as it includes bbq baseline and such.
Im still under impression that im supposed to just not touch the person that got unhooked at all until i got 4 unique hooks?
Am i missing the point or what since its written that if tunnel aka go for 2nd hook state on same survivor that was unhook all survivors get repair speed perma bonus
Do i have to let them go or what?
Like generally speaking only thing i can do is let them be slugged now on ground until i managed to find and hook a 2nd unique survivor and let them bleed on ground while i do that under 90 seconds or else they get up?
Same goes if they go afk and purposly camp hook.
Its a bit confusing changes that have plotholes
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Its also not specified if the hook cycle refreshes once u get 4 unique hooks then u can rehook that 1st person or 2nd or 3rd as long as its not the 4th person?
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Thats STILL dumb since even in that scenario, its not tunneling. The idea that you can 2 hook everyone and get hit with a tunneling penalty for killing the "wrong" survivor is kinda ridiculous.
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slugging does nothing because basekit tenacity and unbreakable
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Ah. You should maybe be focusing on the survivors and not the gens, it'll leave you with less dead air and wasted time.
I don't think the implication is that you need four unique hooks before you target anyone else, you just shouldn't be targeting people who were just unhooked and you shouldn't be hooking the same person multiple times in a row. That's how I'm reading it, you're penalised for killing someone early and penalised extra if you kill them by hooking them twice in a row.
I think that might be your misunderstanding - the penalty is for KILLING survivors. All that happens if you go first hook → second hook on the same survivor is you don't get the bonuses for unique hooks, so no info or haste or what have you.
At least, again, that is my understanding.
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…Just hook someone else first, and then you can go target them. They're not untouchable, they just can't be your next hook if you want to avoid penalties.
I mean, it could be tunnelling, it depends on if you're chasing them as they're unhooked or not.
Broadly though, the "penalty" is pretty minor if you've actually two-hooked everyone. You don't need gen regression at that point, everyone's already on death hook. You're only even in a close scenario if the last gen pops, otherwise you're completely fine.
I'm not saying everything about this system is fine, we can't say that until we know the numbers, but I think that part's fairly elegant. It's a huge penalty if it happens early, but borderline inconsequential if it happens after two-hooking everyone.
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Yeah but does the whole hook cycle refresh upon hooking a 2nd unique survivor or what since it would really game breaking and unfair and can be misused and abused heavily if the unhooked person decided to like do healing action or loot or stuff to remove their protection and then stand in way of killer.
Like im trying to make sense here because i can imagine the horrors here based off my personal experience from my matches in higher mmr where users with OTR would use that + their unhook protection to take hits.
What is there to stop them from weaponizing this new systems in place when lets say u hit them and then u injure and then down, should i just let them be on ground and do my best to down a 2nd unique survivor? And then what happens when i hook that person again to be on his 2nd dying state hook.
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I just dont think survivors will play fair and restrain them selves from not blocking the vision of a killer, they are technically protected until they do anything conspicious or whatever that word is correct?
They can just follow and do the usual thing they do and when i go for a down they can follow me and sabotage hook and i cant really hook them or anything?
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if people actually know how to loop or if you go to pallet town where you can pre drop pallets to waste time and there are so many it doesn't matter extends chase time which is bad for killer since the survivor objective takes less time than the killer objective this would be a different story if they giga buffed every gen regression perk across the board to compensate but they didn't
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I am sure that if these changes negatively impact killrates, adjustments will be made. Which in my opinion is far healthier and ideal. Killers shouldn’t be forced to play only one way (like tunneling) to stay viable. If they are so reliant upon it, then they need base kit changes and buffs individually to allow for more variety of play. The killrates have been very healthy for quite a long time now, and if some struggle to meet that 60%, then it’s great that they can receive meaningful and impactful individual updates to maintain that killrate, rather than being store farmed to only use 1 tactic to do so. If the killrates aren’t affected after this change, then they were maintaining good killrates even without tunneling, which should be the ideal as it’s better for all players and both roles. Make killers strong and viable without having to rely on tunneling.
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I'm not sure I'm following you properly, but yes, the hook "cycle" refreshes on hooking someone else. It only matters who your last hook was here, as long as you don't hook the same survivor twice in a row you'll get the bonuses and you'll avoid the penalties, as I understand it.
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Oh okay fair enough then, i still think they can weaponize it to their advantage especially users at higher mmr that already know how to play around being tunneled.
i also think there should be a gen repair speed debuff upon getting chained unique hooks then for that matter since playing certain killers mainly if you are not using blight at high mmr you wont be getting unique hooks anyways.
I main myers and had to rely on making it a 3v1 as fast as possible.
Mainly due to his speed and mobility.
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You're not throwing anything. It's a 3v1. Are players somehow losing 3v1s with multiple gens remaining? It's almost impossible to lose in those situations. The gen speed buff is there to make 3v1s slightly less impossible for survivors.
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I agree that flat out removing gen regression is bad, especially since this actually encourages survivors to die, like sacrifice themselves. I do think Gen regression should be tied to how many survivors are able to stop the regression, that is alive, and not on the hook or in the dying state.
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Before anyone wants to comment "just don't tunnel" think about it. Killers are now FORCED to play by the survivor handbook and hand free wins effectively to them.
The 6.1 killer buffs were forgotten by the end of the week.
These didn't even last the rest of the day before being memory-holed.
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If you kill a survivor too fast then boom free gen progression for everyone. This means your damned if you do and damned if you don'tYou still have a survivor eliminated from the game. Unless the gen progression is massive, we're talking like over a 100% increase, its still in your favor, just not quite the extreme it currently is.
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If you kill a survivor too fast then boom free gen progression for everyone. This means your damned if you do and damned if you don't. you kill someone because its the optimal play at the time then woo you got a kill but now all gens are gonna fly a little faster on top of whatever buffs it already has.
Well there's your problem right there. It's no longer the optimal play - this is by design.
Now im not saying that tunneling is fine and i agree with the masses that any killer who goes into a game and hardcore tunnels a survivor needs to maybe find another game to play because clearly this isn't the game for them but i can tell you from experience that sometimes you end up tunneling someone just because its the person you find. Not because you have gone out of your way to hunt them down or because you have gone back to hook to tunnel them. Its just the natural way that game has gone..
Killers get free aura reads now whenever they hook someone other than the person they last hooked. It's now very easy to find anyone else to chase.
On top of this killers can no longer see the hook state of the survivors. So if your not taking notes you could end up tunneling without realizing.
They're introducing an indicator that shows you the last person you hooked. Tunneling without realizing will be impossible unless you're just ignoring the status indicators on the HUD.
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It depends on the match. Even if you hard tunnel someone out of the game unless the other survivors have been doing nothing or the one your tunnelling is going down basically instantly you will likely lose 2 or 3 gens before you get the kill. again very team dependant but at least 2 gens should pop.
When i say your basically throwing the game i mean just leaving someone alive because the game punishes you for killing them to quickly (which that statement as i write it is stupid in a game that revolves around killing people) means that its more pressure you lose which can very quickly snowball for the worse for you as a killer.0 -
This is a fantastic point. Have they thought about this. Would this also trigger the gen progression if someone is left to die on first hook. if both things trigger just because survivors haven't rescued it means survivors control if they get a buff or not.
Now on one side it means a 3 v 1 without losing any pressure so unless gens have already flown then if someone was left to die on first hook you can likely win that game 3k or 4k fairly easily.
On the flip side if BHVR has thought about this and simply being left on hook for multiple hook stages and even die on hook doesn't count towards the death before 6 hooks or the kill last hooked it means that proxy camping and hook defence is going to be a fairly strong Strat if their is no downside.0 -
A lot of comments so gonna give my overall final thoughts.
Firstly I did miss read the second part which is regards to no gen kicks after kill. After reading comments and re-reading the line I believe it works so as long as the first kill isn't the last person you hooked (basically hook, down, hook) then you won't get the debuff of not being able to kick gens or block them.
Now saying that it does mean that it is Incredibly easy to cheese this mechanic by hard tunnel first survivor for 2 hooks, hook someone else then go for the kill. you will trigger the gen progression for survivors but should not trigger the no kick/block gen debuff.
Overall a lot of the changes I like. The anti slugging is fine however I can see it being abused like crazy by SWFs feel free to ask how if u want. the buffs you get for unique hooks is great especially as a clown main who already goes fast that extra haste is gonna be amazing after hooking someone so incoming super speed clown :)
I'm very worried however about the numbers. Over doing the buffs or over doing the de buffs is going to make or break these changes and honestly my faith in them getting it right isn't high based on previous updates but I have some hope that they will at least fix any issues after PTB.1 -
Any smart person who wants to abuse this will run shoulder vigil and intentionally leave people to 2nd stage and slam gens harder than shoulder and the killer gets punished
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They will for sure fix this loophole by the time this leaves ptb fully.
Even if not only valid strat is to just let them be down slugged for 90s and rotate and find other surv and come back
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first they won't second at that point you might as well quit since the survivor has basekit tenacity and unbreakable and won't be in the same spot and also remember survivors are still doing gens while this happens so it's a lose lose situation
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