http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why all the hate for the upcoming changes?
Imo, lots of these changes should've been implemented ages ago. Can't wait to see how they feel on the terrible Solo Survivor side of the game that lots of Killer mains like to pretend doesn't exist. Hopefully this makes a 4k much more rare. Getting a 4k as Killer would be extremely rare if I was in control. 3 is a win and I love playing Killer and allowing the last person to leave. I really don't see the issue, but then again I don't use tunneling and camping in my play style so.. :/
Comments
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I think killers recognize that solo survivors needed some changes to increase their enjoyment of the game. The issue is I think many feel the devs did not consider killer enjoyment in the changes especially for non-s rank killers. It seems like a fair amount of these changes will be potentially abusable by SWF and they have little faith that the little buffs they most likely will get will make up for all the extra things they now have to keep track of, deal with, and change their play around.
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I don't get why people that play this game act like spoiled siblings and when 1 of the kids gets candy, the other has to have some too or they cry... This community is VERY lucky someone like me isn't in control, because I'd ignore all that SH. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit. Lots of these tunneling changes especially are NEEDED to help newer people. I want to see Killers not getting 4k as often. It just shouldn't be as easy as it is. Especially at the lower skill levels. Like I said, I play Killer a ton and love the role, but I don't feel entitled to kill all the Survivors and that mentality should be forced out of the people who still think they deserve it.
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Its all side based. Its one thing if one side gets a buff to help their play, the other got forced play changes and more they need to keep track of to not arbitrary punish themselves. Its not as if one side just got candy as you put it.
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Actions speak louder than words so we'll see what happens. People need to let the devs cook. We don't have %s or anything yet.
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I think people's faith and trust in the devs is at a all time low and thats why their not willing to just wait for the numbers. As past actions have shown many fumbles. Thats why their is such a strong reaction even before the play test.
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Because they are very obviously survivor sided changes and theres alot of them. And why are the punishments so severe fir killing someone before 6 stages or consecutively?
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The changes are way too generous, it is the very picture of Killers just having to ask the Entity if they're allowed to even kill first before acting. I'm just waiting for the addition of a rule where Killers much wipe the Survivors rear and clean their pants at the end of a game to ensure that the Killers dont feel too strong. Basekit endurance on unhook, I agree that it was a good addition, but forcing ALL killers to suddenly go into the same play style route with forces all variation to be gone??
Its gonna be ridiculous seeing Killers be scared and run away from survivors they are close to killing, WHICH IS THEIR JOB.
The worst offence is no notification on un-hook. That is no anti-tunneling measure, That's just stupid. You just no longer can trust the games own mechanics.
Yes I am biased due to bring a Killer Main but everything I just went "sure, okay". This is where I draw the line. I'm just not gonna touch killer at this point, I'm just gonna enjoy the treatment by now joining the survivors instead and bloat the popularity there.
Among with changes, Michael myers no longer being the stalking guy we know from the movies but now instead become...Another dash killer??? What, just play Chucky or Blight or Wesker. Sure he was old and needed a change, for sure, but not the Nikes.
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People should've seen it coming with the way some play. Now you can't force someone out of the game quickly. Not sure what the problem is unless tunneling/slugging is part of your play style. I assume the only one's complaining are people that use tunneling/slugging in the majority of their Killer matches. They can figure out the higher levels of DBD later. We need changes like this for the majority which to nobodies surprise should take priority.
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Because a 3v1 is impossible to lose if the killer is any good at the game. Players talk out of both sides of their mouth on issues like this. They want the game balanced around the best survivors and the worst killer players at the same time.
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The only change I'm not liking is the all gen regression is stopped when getting a kill before 6 hooks.
This would have an indirect nerf to Sadako with how her kit works getting condemn kills. Also killers that are behind say 1-2 gens left and they only have 1-3 hooks. At that point they need to tunnel someone out, but with this new punishment system they're forced into a lose-lose situation. How they suppose to make a comeback at that point?
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Thats what I have been saying and all I have got is that its just a skill issue on the killers side. You need to play a perfect early game or just carry water for the rest of the game.
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The only change I'm not liking is the all gen regression is stopped when getting a kill before 6 hooks.
Pretty sure gen regression is only blocked if you kill the survivor you hooked last.
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People on the forums are going to be more invested in the game than the average player.
Some over-invested (for lack of a better term) players are going to be people very emotionally invested in getting wins as the killer side, and are going to be upset that their most surefire way of guaranteeing those wins is getting reworked/nerfed
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100% these changes are only buffs and basekit perks if you just don't hook the same person twice in a row, you can still tunnel but quick 1v3 isn't so free anymore… people don't want a fair and fun game clearly, they want cheap free wins, easy 4k, you're right 4k should be rare not the norm
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I think yes some people are mad that they cant get easy wins on their S rank movement killers, but these changes really did not account for lower rank killer enjoyment of players thay yes are more invested in the game and play more. Thus running into more SWF and bully squads. Which are far less common ill admit then people make them out to be, but essentially can ruin a killers enjoyment also. Just like tunneling and slug strategies did for solos. Then when killers complain about that or gen rushing or how all these changes just add for more areas of possible abuse or things killers have to keep track of to not arbitrarily punish themselves. They just get told its a skill issue, which is part of it, but you cant just get better at finding enjoyment from unfun experiences or being forced to deal with rats hiding so you dont get 6 hook states and so on. Theirs a reason other than 4ks that many felt they had to kill or slug to make a comeback in some games.
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This is a big step toward buffing weaker Killers once the dust settles. People shouldn't throw in the towel so quickly. It's just a game at the end of the day and these changes will help more than hurt the majority of the player base.
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For me, Ive already seen people making plans and talking about hoe to exploit these changes to force killers to go afk or leave. Thats the reason I dont like it, because it'll just encourage the bullies on this game to use that against killers.
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Which is more fairly common thing for killers to do that are way behind on hooks with multiple gens done. Getting penalized for tunneling someone out that you know that's on death hook can't regress gens and survivors get repair boost or lose the game going after someone else that hasn't been hooked once.
Its just one scenario and plenty of others possible situations that might have been tunneled out intentionally or not.
I just can't think of any way this will work as intended without unintentionally punishing killers. Maybe tie the new system to how many gens are done. At 3 4 or 5 gens still up penalty system works after 3 gens are completed the penalty for killers is disabled.
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For me, Ive already seen people making plans and talking about hoe to exploit these changes to force killers to go afk or leave.
I have too, but it's all killer players desperately trying to invent scenarios they can label 'abuse' so they can wiggle their way out of a 9 year overdue fix.
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4K isn’t “the norm”. The average kill rate is 60%, so on average 2-3K is “the norm” with 2K being more common than 3K.
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How is it fair that you can't regress or block a gen because a death hook survivor is pressuring you to chase them or does a gen in your face once using all their anti tunnel? Then their teammates get a ######### ton of buffs for free, whilst you wasted time either way. Tunneling is frustrating, but its strategic and fair, and I do not want to lose that aspect of Killer because someones not getting the satisfaction of outing the killer. If they wanna correct Tunneling, reward the survivor through rank and missed out BP opportunities in post game, seeing as you essentially held the killer off majority of the game, you'll gain MMR despite dying.
How is it fair that after only 90 SECONDS of being on the ground throughout the entire match, that survivor's get a basekit tenacity that grows in power over time, basekit unbreakable for every pick up, all because the killer is slugging short term? Plot twist is about to skyrocket in usage rate cus ik those mfs are just gonna purposely farm their meter to the max so they have unbreakable permanently.
The devs seriously need to stop catering to low mmr survivors who don't know what they're doing, cus these changes are seriously unfair for killers who are already struggling with lack of mobility and survivor gen speeds. Like you can't remove tunneling and not nerf gens, thats ridiculous. Not even corrupt basekit yet, and the game is 9 years old, this should not be happening. Survivors have reigned supreme for 9 whole years, when killer is suppose to be the power role. Let that sink in.
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Tunneling a survivor out in certain situations are their own faults. Killers shouldn't be restricted and lose basekit abilities because a death hook survivor is forcing chases on the killer to waste time tunneling just to be punished, or leave and waste time trying to spread hooks in late game. Either way, you're wasting time and a 3 out is almost always gonna be garunteed.
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How is it fair that you can't regress or block a gen because a death hook survivor is pressuring you to chase them or does a gen in your face once using all their anti tunnel? Then their teammates get a ######### ton of buffs for free, whilst you wasted time either way. Tunneling is frustrating, but its strategic and fair, and I do not want to lose that aspect of Killer because someones not getting the satisfaction of outing the killer. If they wanna correct Tunneling, reward the survivor through rank and missed out BP opportunities in post game, seeing as you essentially held the killer off majority of the game, you'll gain MMR despite dying.
How is it fair that after only 90 SECONDS of being on the ground throughout the entire match, that survivor's get a basekit tenacity that grows in power over time, basekit unbreakable for every pick up, all because the killer is slugging short term? Plot twist is about to skyrocket in usage rate cus ik those mfs are just gonna purposely farm their meter to the max so they have unbreakable permanently.
The devs seriously need to stop catering to low mmr survivors who don't know what they're doing, cus these changes are seriously unfair for killers who are already struggling with lack of mobility and survivor gen speeds. Like you can't remove tunneling and not nerf gens, thats ridiculous. Not even corrupt basekit yet, and the game is 9 years old, this should not be happening. Survivors have reigned supreme for 9 whole years, when killer is suppose to be the power role. Let that sink in.
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Might as well make kindred and we'll make it basekit as well to combat proxy camping and ordinary camping if we are gonna follow the philosophy of Bhvr, and of the fact that if one survivor has been hooked twice and no one else has been then just give them 10%+ haste, basekit finesse and apply blindness to the killer to them to ensure its literally impossible for some killers.
The problem is not "Oooh You're just bad, suck it up" its just the worst way to solve this idea, 4k should be rare but not to the point its once a year. I feel like 1 and 2 kills is gonna be the norm now, 2 kills will be the new victory.
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So should when then just remove adepts bc that forces a 4k with 3 perks that might all be trash
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Because there is a section of the killer player base who have gotten used to getting easy wins by tunnelling out a survivor at 5 gens, so the rest of their team are stuck in a match they cant win and cant leave unless the killer slugs them all (which many wont as they want to use you as their play thing to farm you for points in a futile match).
I really can only laugh as I did warn this would happen but the ones bragging about doing this lame strat didn't listen. Massive W for survivors
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they could make gens take 30 seconds give survivor 5 hook stages . I would still never play solo queue survivor that experience is always miserable because the average survivor in this game is awfull at looping and doing their objective . That being said swf is allready extrelly strong and the next patch it will be an autopilot pve game so an average swf.
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The problem is mid killers think they should be able to win against elite high mmr swfs.
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The problem is that they are getting matched with elite high mmr swfs in the first place. The problem is that if the elite high mmr swfs were stuck waiting for some comp Nurse or Blight like they should be, the game would be in a much healthier state.
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It's comparatively easy to just not kill a player early in the match - just chose not to. Making sure 3 randoms who you have no control over and yourself don't die early in the match is something you have only partial control over - tunnelling really isn't that hard and there's only so much a survivor can do to mitigate it.
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Tunneling a survivor out in certain situations are their own faults
So, first of all, this is why they added Elusive. I'm noticing that nearly everyone against this has just plain ignored that the survivor off hook can't body block, or be annoying, and is generally worthless to the game until they leave and do something else. I think this is a genuine blind spot for people who defend tunneling relentlessly.
Secondly, this is a terrible argument and BHVR doesn't care. You can, right now, on live, be tunneled out because the killer decides to, and you, as the survivor, receive a dc penalty for "not trying". It's was a problem, people were very vocal about it, and BHVR just pushed it back out with no changes again.
You aren't forced to tunnel at all. You choose to. But even if body blocking a tunneling killer (which is being removed) was a penalty, BHVR has shown that they have no problems with that.
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I agree, if the queues actually prioritised MMR over time waiting, you'd avoid most situations where survivors and killers are wildly mismatched.
I, a mid-level survivor and killer player, shouldn't be placed against a 5000-hour killer/survivor team, nor should I be placed against a low MMR team/killer or a fresh install. It's unfair for me, it's unfair for them. It's unfair for everyone.
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They tried this. All of the content creators whined bc they're at max mmr and it took the system longer to find them matches at their level. And the content wasnt as good. You're not going to get "Salty Killer RAGES after 5 GEN CHASE!" clickbait if the killer is at your level.
We literally have crappy matchmaking so that folks like Henz and Otz can get more viewers. Which is why I roll my eyes every time Otz claims to care about new players lol. Well, that and his yearly smurf content where he and a bunch 15k hour survivors make new accounts, bully baby killers, them call it "hardcore."
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Oh, I agree, I enjoy creators like Otz and Hens when they're playing against their own MMR or just in KWF lobbies with each other. But their "Hardcore survivor" content is just, complete and utter horseshit to watch, especially when it indirectly inspires other Mid-high MMR players to make new accounts or tank their MMR just so they can bully new/fresh install killers/survivors.
Hell, I was the victim of one such bully squad back in 2022, when you could still rapid-click flashlights and blind them at lockers. I was held hostage by these survivors for maybe 20 minutes, while they took it in turns to BM me and flashlight me at lockers, because I didn't know what else to do, nor did I have the tools to defend myself (mainly experience).
How do I know I was used to make content? They bragged about it in end-game chat: "Thanks for the clips, my viewers are gonna love it," and "dumb baby killer, so easy to trick and blind." "Uninstall, blocking you. Don't be in my lobby again noob." -_-So yeah, all of this to say, I don't entirely blame content creators for the state of the game, but more so them indirectly influencing people who then go on to complain about ABC issues, because XYZ creator holds the same belief.
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Nothing new, killer mains love to doom-post as soon as they see something they don't like. They did the same with fog vials and many other times.
Get ready to come out of this patch with only benefits for killers and nothing to help survivors against tunnelling, as usual.1 -
I think we need to see these changes in action and if either side needs help after it, we should go from there. This will greatly improve the casual side of the game if successful and I feel that's what needs help the most right now.
For all we know a new meta may emerge from killer side with these new fresh hook incentives, that's why Pain Resonance is so popular… isn't it? So like, going off of that, imagine how much pressure you can get from playing as intended now.9 -
What about mid survivors who think they should escape 50% of their matches? Do you think it’s possible that there’s some of this at play here as well?
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Considering that most escapes by the average survivor are due to a second survivor that is way better than them doing all the job by distracting the killer, we would have a good laugh if they were forced to take an active part in the game. Because the level isn't just low, it's literally rock bottom.
That's why I find it funny when people talk about a bad or unskilled killer. Haven't you seen all those survivors bumping into walls or running around like headless chickens? Because they are much more common than a terrible killer.
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Without sluging 4k is rare because last survivor has 4 options first is finding hatch and now hatch spawn offering are secreat so it can be easier for survivor than before, after not getting lucky on hatch there are two exit gates with what like 2-3 minutes timer ofcorse depennds on rng how far or close are exits and if theres some spot beween where killer can stand and have view on both exits other thing is killers mobility billy or blight can patrol gates better than bubba. Last option is key which now all keys can open the hatch and weakest is not that rare (green rarity) so thats 4 options to get out which is huge and without slugging for 4k which will be deffinitly impossible after this patch hits live then 4k will be rare.
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Its hard to judge now but some things like killer buffs after not tunneling are hidden so numbers will decide if its good or bad, not to mention things like not being able to block or regress gens by any means after getting kill on less than 6 hook stages is busted on all lower mediocre killers and below, overall some antitunnel features were needed long time ago and something to reward the killer for going after other survivors spreading hooks not only in for of bloodpoints which is somethig I wrote some time ago and streamers like truetalent speaking about it for years so we will see how it will go.
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The devs lost all "let them cook" trust when they nuked SM and did other terrible things like the perks for walking dead chapter and no new map. Also houndmaster buggy. Also kaneki buggy.
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An adept is like a challenge. That's the players choice to take on that challenge knowing it'll be tougher. Has nothing to do with helping the Survivor player base as a whole, which is what these changes are aiming to do. You're comparing the state of current Solo Q Survivor getting buffed in general to getting adept challenges? You can see why those things shouldn't be on the same level of difficulty I hope..
These changes would make adepts easier but that isn't saying much as Solo Q Survivor for the majority right now is borderline unplayable..
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True most hactch or last survivor gate escape are from worst teammates that are doging the killer and hinding, rating and not doing gens and then theyir ego is over the roof, hate these as solo q player this kind of survivors are mostly the one that were sreaming and going crazy when distortion got changed to be more chase perk than rat perk, like bofore that change every rat and ratatouille had this perk equiped.
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I absolutely agree with both points.
I don't see why anti-tunnel/anti-slug should equally favor Killer as it does Survivor. The mechanics on their own are so powerful that they have to be knocked down a peg. If we take the "equal attention cake" route, nothing gets changed. There are some issues we can have this 50/50 perspective on, but camping/tunneling/slugging is not one of them.
And while I get that Killers don't win all of their trials, even consecutively, and that the game is frustrating for them, I don't view them as the poor, sad little Killers that the community demands they be seen as. They have agency and their power demands a level of responsibility that they've been denied for far too long now. We've expected that from Survivor in spades the last 3 years so there's no longer any excuse. Instead of waiting for some non-existent benevolence to kick in via cause and effect, direct action has to be taken.
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Pressuring you to chase them? ...what?!? Do it or don't, but you have a survivor not doing gens that also can't bodyblock you. Early 3v1s are not balanced at all. This is an effort to reduce the ridiculous power spike a killer gets when someone dies early.
This is ragebait. Tunneling is not strategic. It's the easiest possible way to win a game. What are we talking about here? You'll somehow be at a disadvantage in a 3v1 or not gain value from slugging a survivor for 90 seconds. Good lord. Take a breath.
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Agree, after the first SM rework, I was hopeful that BHVR would be more considerate of player feedback, because OG Merchant was an issue. However, after they nuked her the second time, they really lost me. So I really don't blame people for panicking a little about these potential changes, because BHVR isn't in good standing with over half of the community right now.
Edit: Spelling errors (don't make comments when sleep-deprived kids.)
Post edited by BrightWolf on2 -
How did the devs cook during that Walking Dead stream?
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The devs need to stop cooking...…I mean haven't the last 4 patches shown that?
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Agreed, hell people were pre-panicking over the proposed changed to Xeno, Knight and Clown before they hit the PTB and with the complete outcry, they backtracked completely on the Xeno changed and walked back over half of the proposed changed to Knight. Yet kept the majority of the Clown changes.
So this whole "why are killers panicking before the PTB is even out?" feels like utter nonsense, not to mention handwaving of genuine, nuanced concerns that players have right now. And as you and others have said, BHVR is in a very precarious spot with the fandom right now, given how poorly received their lastt four patches have been.
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"Tunneling is not strategic. its the easiest possible way to win a game" Isn't that being strategic? dbd isn't a campaign mode game.
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