http://dbd.game/killswitch
I think this patch will finally make me want to play the game again
Comments
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Like they abuse DS and other anti-tunneling perks? Like they abuse anti-slugging perks and sabo builds?
If the Killer can't hook and and the same Survivor because it will make crazy gen repair speed even faster, guess what kind of Survivor will be in the Killer's way 90% of the time, wasting their time?
If Survivors don't have to worry about picking slugged Survivors up anymore, guess how many sabo squads are going to deny Killers hooks just to mess with them?
These changes assume that people are decent. But multiplayer games consist of particularly despicable beings on an ego trip, so these changes will be opening a brand new can of worms.
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If the Killer can't hook and and the same Survivor because it will make crazy gen repair speed even faster, guess what kind of Survivor will be in the Killer's way 90% of the time, wasting their time?
What repair speed bonus would offset a dead survivor?
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SWFs squads take no issue with sacrificing one survivor if 3 can escape. It has never been a problem.
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Answer the question.
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I literally answered that. Taking out 1 survivor, so that other 3 could repair gens and leave? Any SWF will gladly accept that exchange. Many of them already have a designated chasebaiter for distracting the Killer.
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No you didn't, you dodged it.
'Players will sacrifice one to get the 3e if they can' is not an answer to the question of IF they can.
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I didn't dodge anything. Sacrificng one player for 3-person escape has never been an issue for survivors, not in SoloQ, not in SWF. Also, the amount of times I saw SWFs just throw the SoloQ survivor under the bus because they didn't meet their performance standards and thus, deserve to be sacrificed, tells me that this tendency will increase after the changes.
UPD: If it's that hard for you to understand - generators already take seconds to repair, while regressing at much slower rate. There is an infinte amount of perks + tools that allow to accelerate this process even if there is only one survivor sitting on the gen. A gen repair boost + inability to regress and block gens after killing one survivor is a huge buff for the rest of the group and it definitely offsets one survivor dying. Also, you base your opinion on a bias that survivors are that tight-knit "we're in this together" group that will go through hell and back to rescue everyone, while that's rarely the case.
Post edited by SpitefulHateful on-6 -
Sacrificng one player for 3-person escape has never been an issue for survivors, not in SoloQ, not in SWF.
This is a truism.
'It's worth doing, if it's worth doing' is not an argument.
Throwing a survivor under the bus means ditching someone who can do gens, who can heal, who can make a save, who can loop the killer.
So this sacrifice requires the repair speed boost to outweigh all that survivor potential. I ask you to value it and your answer is
'If it's high enough, it's high enough'
inability to regress and block gens after killing one survivor
Doesn't happen for an early kill, only for killing the most recent hook. You control this as killer.
Also, you base your opinion on a bias that survivors are that tight-knit "we're in this together" group that will go through hell and back to rescue everyone, while that's rarely the case.
I'm not doing anything of the sort. You mentioned survivors 'abusing' this, but are unwilling to think about what the repair speed boost would need to be in order for this early, free kill to be outweighed.
Because if it's something like 10%, it's laughable to think that any killer would be meaningfully hindered by a survivor intentionally saving them chases and setting them up for a snowball for a joke of a speed boost!
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I'm not doing anything of the sort. You mentioned survivors 'abusing' this, but are unwilling to think about what the repair speed boost would need to be in order for this early, free kill to be outweighed.
Survivors scattered across gens can complete two gens at once in a single chase (and it's without any gen speed perks and tools), while gen regression perks have been rendered useless. Survivors with perks and tools can do even more. Even if the buff is 10%, it's still a solid way to secure a win, which is worth the sacrifice. Who cares ditching just one Survivor if it secures an easy escape, which mean they won't need extra hands for hooking, healing, etc.?
Survivors have more tools to control the game, meanwhile only A-tier Killers like Nurse and Blight can keep up.
Doesn't happen for an early kill, only for killing the most recent hook. You control this as killer.
So, if the Killer kills one survivor early, giving a free speed boost, and then kills another survivor, the rest gets gen speed + renders all regression/blocking perks useless. So what, don't kill survivors untill they fix all the gens and t-bag at the exit gate?
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Even if the buff is 10%, it's still a solid way to secure a win, which is worth the sacrifice.
Are you serious? You'd rather do the remaining gens in a 1v3 with +10% repair speed, than in a 4v1?
Because I'm pretty sure all previous discussion about anti-tunnel points towards no killers agreeing with you.
So, if the Killer kills one survivor early, giving a free speed boost, and then kills another survivor, the rest gets gen speed + renders all regression/blocking perks useless.
Nope, also wrong. You can kill all survivors without triggering this, it's a separate item.
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When I play as a Survivor, I don't rely on other Survivors in the first place and choose my perks accordingly - funny fact, my trials became must easier that way. I got iri rank and had mutliple escapes without any stress or care, so I don't have to worry about 4v1 or 3v1. The game literally gives all the assistance you need, as a Survivor.
Nope, also wrong. You can kill all survivors without triggering this, it's a separate item.- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
How is Killer supposed not to trigger this? Not hook?
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How is Killer supposed not to trigger this? Not hook?
By hooking a different Survivor.
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When I play as a Survivor, I don't rely on other Survivors in the first place and choose my perks accordingly - funny fact, my trials became must easier that way. I got iri rank and had mutliple escapes without any stress or care, so I don't have to worry about 4v1 or 3v1. The game literally gives all the assistance you need, as a Survivor.
There's a huge gulf between 'not being overly altruistic' and 'throwing a free kill at the killer'.
How is Killer supposed not to trigger this? Not hook?Alternate!
If you put B on death hook, then hook C, then kill B, this thing doesn't trigger.
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Like they abuse DS and other anti-tunneling perks? Like they abuse anti-slugging perks and sabo builds?Question about abuse.
To help killers deal with the unhookable builds, BHVR added in extra hooks. Some of those are in strong and easy to defend positions.
When a killer hooks someone on them who doesn't have a wiggle off build, are they abusing the hooks? Because they are using them for an unintended purpose after all.
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Enjoy your blight, nurse, Billy, dracula, ghoul, spirit, killer rotation then I guess
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You're comparing apples and oranges.
DS and other anti-tunnel was designed to prevent Killers from tunneling, but the devs didn't calculate that survivors with DS are going to bodyblock and throw themselves at the Killer to engage them into chase and prevent them from going after other survivors.
An anti-camp mechanic and the built-in BT now make sure that the Killer can't really defend a strong hook and there is plenty of room for survivors to dive in for the rescue. If it's an M1 killer without any mobility, these strong hooks won't do much.
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but the devs didn't calculate that survivors with DS are going to bodyblock and throw themselves at the KillerTwo points:
1: Based on what didn't they calculate that? They literally put a tracker into the game called 'protection hit', they're well aware that survivors protect each other.
2: If they viewed it as abuse they could have changed it. It's no secret that it can occur.
If it's an M1 killer without any mobility, these strong hooks won't do much.So when talking about abuse on the survivor side we take the most extreme example (a coordinated SWF), but when talking about the killer side we take the most extreme example in the other direction (an M1 killer without mobility).
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1: Based on what didn't they calculate that? They literally put a tracker into the game called 'protection hit', they're well aware that survivors protect each other.
The list of BHVR's problems with long-term decision-making is quite long. Remind me, when Mathieu Cote said that flashlighrs weren't a problem, what was he basing his statement on?
2: If they viewed it as abuse they could have changed it. It's no secret that it can occur.
BHVR didn't see the Streetwise bug as an exploit — and recommended playing another game to players, who complained about having bad experience. Does it sound like competence?
So when talking about abuse on the survivor side we take the most extreme example (a coordinated SWF), but when talking about the killer side we take the most extreme example in the other direction (an M1 killer without mobility).A coordinated SWF isn't an extreme example, it's very common (voice comms make a lot of difference), and M1 killers aren't rare as well — not all people want to master Nurse.
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I'd hold off until you see what ACTUALLY makes it into the game.
We'll know pretty early into the PTB whether this bad boy is gonna go live or not >:3
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Before the 2v8 event, killer queues were under a minute. They'll probably drop back down after 2v8 ends.
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So abuse is when something is used against BHVR's intentions, but also when they want something in but you don't think its good for the game.
Your definition of abuse seems to equate to 'personally dislike'.
BHVR didn't see the Streetwise bug as an exploitThey didn't see that it merited the kill switch. They were wrong and changed course.
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Lol, I'll just switch to killer.
If you're so one-sided that you can't switch roles when faced with an enormous wait, you deserve what you get, regardless of which side you're on.
But, we'll see if you're right and it EVER applies to survivor. I doubt it will, but I love to be proven wrong.
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So abuse is when something is used against BHVR's intentions, but also when they want something in but you don't think its good for the game.
Your definition of abuse seems to equate to 'personally dislike'.
Abuse is when a mechanic meant to create a fairer experience is exploitable for gaining an unfair advantage. I named examples when anti-tunnel perks were used for more agressive play. I have also plenty of examples for sabo squad whose only mission is to deny hooks and make the trial miserable. The planned changes allow for more exploits, especially for Killers that no longer bring BHVR money (i.e. forgotten and ignored) and lack the mobility to keep with gen repair speed (and players who don't grind DbD like they get paid for it).
I personally dislike that BHVR ignores the root problem and tries to appease one side only, if anything. But my thoughts on BHVR's competence aren't pleasant in general.
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Go ahead. Queue times will be short.
But, we'll see if you're right and it EVER applies to survivor. I doubt it will, but I love to be proven wrong.
I mean… why do you think we got the 6.1 patch? Because survivor queues were up to like 15+ minutes. It takes a lot to get killer players to stop playing, but they will if the role feels miserable and powerless… kind of like having to ignore the survivor making blatant mistakes in front of you because big daddy BHVR says that you can't hit him anymore.
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The irony here is that these changes are meant to address unbalanced catchup mechanics.
Given the history of patches with BHVR, we can assume it will do too much to address the problem or too little. Given how strong camping/tunneling/slugging is and how pervasive it's become, I feel like it's safe to say that it would take a lot more than this patch to truly do too much. I think more than anything, as is, it will make a noticeable dent. But there's still a chance it will do far too little by the time it goes live.
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Because survivor queues were up to like 15+ minutes
I've never waited more than 5 minutes for a match in my life (and I definitely played Survivor mostly, before the incentive bonus was a thing) but ok
It takes a lot to get killer players to stop playing, but they will if the role feels miserable and powerless
Why is that bad IF it happens to killer, but it's not bad when IT IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING TO SURVIVOR?
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Lol. They're not going to nerf or scrap it before live. Do you realize how many man hours must have gone into this patch? They had to change dozens of perks, update the UI, add in new status effects, not to mention the systems themselves. This is one of those things that BHVR is absolutely going to be bullheaded about. There is very little chance they listen to the community on this one.
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I don't think it'll be scrapped. Even if it's shelved, it'll come back again. But the chances of the numbers being far less extreme than people are anticipating—on either side of the argument—are still pretty high. We'd be remiss to ignore what happened most recently with both anti-go next (being a disaster and returning anyway) and Fog Vials (being nerfed due to backlash).
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Fog Vials should have never seen the light of day, to be honest. They were a horrible concept that buffed the two most frustrating survivor playstyles: shift w and ratting.
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Abuse is when a mechanic meant to create a fairer experience is exploitable for gaining an unfair advantage.So you are giving two conditions to the use of abuse:
Created for a fairer experience - this gets back to my point on BHVR's intent
Unfair advantage - so we're in subjective territory basically meaning too strong
I named examples when anti-tunnel perks were used for more agressive play.What is unfair about aggressive play?
The planned changes allow for more exploits, especially for Killers that no longer bring BHVR moneyI like a good conspiracy theory into their motives, but people are talking about playing only Nurse and Blight. Are these hug cash cows for BHVR at this point?
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Did they? I usually see them used to break up chase or to scatter from a gen. Then again, Shift-W is running to the farthest corner of the map and ratting is hiding in the farthest corner of the map as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong.
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I saw that a lot, and they were usually ineffective when used that way. When they really messed me up was when they were used at the start of the chase. Survivors would start pre-running and drop them, leaving me with a 50/50 guess on if they had stayed or not. If they had run off, and I searched the smoke thinking they stayed, they'd be long gone and I'd never catch up.
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What is unfair about aggressive play?
Unfair advantage - so we're in subjective territory basically meaning too strong
When 4 play agressively against 1 and stack perks to considerably increase their advantage and/or to harass them, it doesn't sound fair.
I like a good conspiracy theory into their motives, but people are talking about playing only Nurse and Blight. Are these hug cash cows for BHVR at this point?That's the point, though? There are many different Killers available, but Nurse and Blight remain nearly only ones strong enough to keep up with the changes and make up for the pressure. Other Killers with interesting mechanics are not in a good spot. Trapper, despite being the iconic Killer, literally the "face" of DbD is a meme right now, literally a bully bait. Onryio? Reworked into Oblivion. Pinhead? Pretty much stashed away because no longer money. Unknown? Gutted. The list goes on.
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Abuse is when a mechanic meant to create a fairer experience is exploitable for gaining an unfair advantage. I named examples when anti-tunnel perks were used for more agressive play.
I don't know if these perks qualify for that. It's unfair to begin with to force the locking of perk slots to remedy something that the other side gets basekit.
But also, they weren't made for anti-tunnel to begin with, they just got reworked into a position where the community labels them 'anti-tunnel'. DS especially wasn't made to make things fairer, given its original incarnation.
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Im looking forword to it on both sides. I see all of it as a possitive (Except the dracula nerfs being a dracula main lol).
Dbd has had this ideal way of being played since the beginning. Hook people, go find the others chase em off generators, hook them all, gg. Brought a mori? Cool animations during the late game when people are on their last hooks. Someone with a flashlight preventing you from picking someone up? No problem go chase the flashlight guy while the slugged person keeps more teammates busy.
What all this turned into over the years tho is the exact opposite. It became no longer about just playing out a round the way it was intended for fun. The mechanics were turned into weapons by both sides and abused endlessly to a point where 80% of your rounds as survivor has a killer believing they must win 100% of their matches by deleting someone and their fun before a generator goes off, so that the rest of the round is "easy" by knocking the whole team down and getting 1 hook each. Ending in half the points they were ever meant to get, but "hey i won so who cares".
This patch just proves how far the game has gone in the wrong direction with the abuse of mechanics to a point where most of the killers are absolutely devastated at the thought of not being able to delete someone at 5 generators or knock the whole team down without playing out the round. Never mind the swf teams thats another problem entirely to tackle someday (and it needs to be adressed just as hard as this patch). Because the people those killers are deleting most of the time are just random soloque players trying to play the game and they blame their actions on swf team mechanics.
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The toxic one? Good thing
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I've been playing with these stricter rules in place as killer and, although it's not an accurate depiction of the PTB, it's been a lot of fun.
I rarely tunnel at all, but being aware of not taking anybody out before 6 hook stages has altered the way I play to be more analytical. One time I did take somebody out on the 5th hook (whether I miscounted or they went to second stage I don't know) and 2 gens had been done. I got 4k with all gens done, and a friendly chat with the survivors after revealed I took on a 3-SWF.
I'm also not returning to hooks when they get unhooked, not stamping on gens if one survivor goes out early, and the fact it's only a few amendments from how I already play I see it as getting free power buffs for playing as normal.
Obviously, the PTB is where it's going to show, and one team I think that will benefit is the flashlight bully squads. I got a 4k against them, but they were slugged a fair bit due to the intense battle, and I reckon the slugging changes would have made it very difficult. That's one negative I've found through testing. Yet no doubt everything will be analysed and altered after PTB.
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