http://dbd.game/killswitch
Objectivity vs emotional reactions
After the latest PTB patch notes were released, it was no surprise that it divided the community, most arguments and comments diluded into us vs them.
Regardless of what side a player is voicing their opinion from, I think it now more important now than ever to be objective about these changes. Unbiased and looking at the bigger picture from both sides rather than just one side. However, we all love this game, or at least did at one point and I think most of everyone can agree that we only want it to succeed. Succeed and become better than it is now. I can scarcely blame people for being worried about the games future, especially with such extreme changes that will affect the actual foundation of the game.
Yes, there are certain changes that should not make it live, but that does not mean the patch as a whole should be thrown away. Thats why feedback is so important, and thats why we voice our opinions. This patch will be changed before release, but I think its important to consider that even more will change after it reaches live servers. These are the first steps towards refreshing the game and opening up possibilities that we didn't think would ever happen. Its not the end all, be all and nothing happens in the aftermath.
We're so used to bandaid fixes and issues being solved with perks rather than actually fixing the issue. This is actually attempting to fix the issue. Doom posting and not even giving it a chance is what will really kill the game because change and innovation is what will keep this game going for another 5 years, and maybe even beyond that.
Comments
-
The hard resistance to changes we haven't even tested is depressing. The game does indeed need some refreshing. A lot of players are unhappy and they're trying to address it. We can at least try it before throwing tantrums.
9 -
Complete objectivity, especially when discussing experiences, is something quite problematic from a philosophical point of view. But i don't think this type of discussion fits this forums.
Anyway, i think the discussions that we are having in this forum is quite productive for the game. Even if nothing comes to live the devs can see what the many parts of the community thinks about all of this changes.
My only concern is that most of these changes - in my opinion - don't make the survivor gameplay experience better, in particular at SoloQ. It just push people to sweating: lower tier killers will be in the worse state than they ever been, specially when we consider that part of these basekit buffs can be used aggressively without too much consequences; medium SWF and experienced survivor players will have a very good advantage over the killer, now that they are forced to swap hooks between the whole survivors;
One thing that i also want to point it out is that these changes HEAVILY disincentivize survivors too cooperate: i believe will be a common experience being left into the ground for 90s while the randoms do gens, or the in worst case, totems and chest or even heal with self-care since now they will take for granted that sometime you will be able to pick up yourself; or just being farmed in front of the killer because they believe the killer won't go after you. These changes rewards playing badly, and that why it raises concerns from a great part of community.
-3 -
This patch will be changed before release, but I think its important to consider that even more will change after it reaches live servers
First of all, you don't know that. BHVR rarely does more than slight numbers tweaks between PTB and Live, since that's all they really have time for. Secondly, there is VERY little in this patch that should reach live servers. Killers shouldn't get free basekit BBQ + Pop + Haste when hooking a survivor, and survivors shouldn't get coddled and rewarded for bad gameplay.
Does something need to be done about tunneling? Perhaps. But this is not the way. The problem with this is that you're forcing killers to ignore survivor mistakes. When Dwight messes up for the umpteenth time in a row and leaves himself wide and clear in a deadzone… if he's the last hooked survivor, you just have to ignore him. If it's before six hooks, you just have to ignore him.
It's like playing games with your little brother and being forced to go easy on them because if you don't, you'll get grounded.
0 -
"i believe will be a common experience being left into the ground for 90s while the randoms do gens"
I think once they realize leaving a person slugged for the equivalent of an entire gen is what keeps costing them the game, they'll stop doing it. There's nothing efficient about that lol
2 -
You are overestimating randoms. How many time you've got to the second stage because someone was doing any other things than rescuing? Or just got out of the hook in front of the killer? Or saw someone dropping a god pallet and going down 10s after?
-2 -
At first, I had a knee-jerk reaction in my head. As a killer main, I have killed the last person off hook without my intention, because I dont pay much attention to the hud.
Thats my major problem, and honestly i think that they should be 5 hooks not 6 hooks for gen prog buff.a nd also not getting the numbers on haste, regression, progression bonus for the death before 6 hooks also fuels the worry.
JJust Droping this without numbers fuels panic.
-1 -
Oh, after 4.5 years playing solo I've seen everything randoms can throw at me. I think this is probably the reason the devs also threw basekit Tenacity in there - realistically, a slugged survivor should be able to reach someone for help. And if they cant, then the 90s self pick-up is the backup.
0 -
Yes, because god forbid survivors have to work as a team.
-1 -
The game isnt even advertised as a team game. It literally says in the sales description that you can play as a lone wolf. The fact that doing so is likely to more often than not ruin your chances of escape is the biggest disincentive to doing so.
5 -
Well tbh, most matches mid to low mmr, the survivors dont work as a team. I have seen several survivors die to me slugging instead of hooking because the other two were ether A focused on gens or B hella immersed. High mmr tho? More team work is seen.
1 -
The game also advertises:
A Feast for Killers
- Dead by Daylight draws from all corners of the horror world. As a Killer you can play as anything from a powerful Slasher to terrifying paranormal entities. Familiarize yourself with your Killing Grounds and master each Killer’s unique power to be able to hunt, catch and sacrifice your victims.
But last I checked, especially after this upcoming patch, killers are neither powerful nor terrifying. Instead, it should read:
A Feast of "Killers"
- Dead by Daylight draws from all corners of the horror world. As a "Killer" you can play become a mild annoyance or minor speedbump on your way to becoming a prop in survivors' power trips. Familiarize yourself with your "Killing" Grounds and master each "Killer’s" kind of unique power (we re-use ideas A LOT) to be able to watch survivors mock you from complete safety more often than not.
So don't believe everything you read lol.
0 -
Not true they always nerf between PTB and live, we don't have the values we'll see tomorrow but I can tell you already anti tunnel will be nerfed, all content creators are going to post videos about anti tunnel killing the game it's a given
you will see it's only going to affect the most extreme cases of hard tunneling (just like anti camp)… anti slug should 100% go live tho
-1 -
This genuinely reminds me of things I used to read on the Steam Forums in like 2017 after old mori's were changed
1 -
Suuuuure it will. I have utmost faith in BHVR lol. They showed that they're willing to roll back their changes time and time again. Like with Clown… wait, nevermind. Or Conviction… wait, nevermind. Or Last Sta… wait, nevermind. Or Made For Thi… nevermind.
The bigger the change, and the more man-hours put into making it, the less likely they are to significantly change it. Look at Mandy or Ryan B's responses here on the forums. "Numbers can be tweaked." Nothing about rolling back entire portions of the changes.
Anti-slug should absolutely not go live. Infinite Basekit Unbreakable is absolutely Broken (pun intended.)
-2 -
These are global changes affecting every single games they're more important than last stand or conviction… you're not reasonable right now, I'm even ok if they cancel anti tunnel I don't mind being tunneled that much but anti slug has to go live it's not negotiable :)
-1 -
It's less "objectivity" and more "having a perspective for total game health" or maybe "being conscious that personal preference or bias exists and trying to see things from a different perspective".
But to the actual topic, I think it's that it's been over 3 years now that this community has had their perception reinforced repeatedly that screaming at the devs loudly, early, and as often as possible is actually an effective way to get the changes that they, specifically, want.
So that's how I see an awful lot of these conversations on the forums right now. There is a fairly small, but insanely loud group that is literally flooding nearly every post on every page trying to make it sound like the sky is falling.
And they're doing that because they think it's an effective way to get the devs to back down, even slightly. And, so far, the track record by BHVR has been that they "listen to feedback" and will, even occasionally, cave to that pressure.
And, for the record, this does apply to issues on both sides, historically.
0 -
Nah, both have to go. The only thing I'm willing to negotiate on is keeping the Elusive status effect off of hook.
Not that it will particularly affect me that much. I have next to no desire to play DBD at the moment. Between the bugs and the cheaters infesting more matches than not, I'm kind of done. BHVR would have to do a lot of health updates for me to even consider coming back, as well as finally doing something about the hackers. After what happened to Spook n Jukes, I'm not willing to put my IP out there on some unprotected server where people threaten to assault and kill little girls over losing at a video game.
0 -
Oh yh then there is.
• Deeper and Deeper - Each Killer and Survivor has their own deep progression system and plenty of unlockables that can be customized to fit your own personal strategy. Experience, skills and understanding of the environment are key to being able to hunt or outwit the Killer.
I think the more honest version is.
• Deeper and Deeper - Each Killer and Survivor has their own SHALLOW progression system and plenty of FILLER unlockables that can be customized to fit your own personal META. YouTube Guides , (SCENE MISSING) and RNG are key to being able to hunt or outwit the Killer.
0 -
Literally nothing about that description changes if the update goes through. You still need to learn the killer's unique power and use it to hunt survivors lol
2 -
No, you need to learn the killer's unique power and use it to mildly inconvenience survivors, as long as you do so within the very strict rules BHVR puts forth about who you're allowed to hunt and when.
3 -
It's like playing games with your little brother and being forced to go easy on them because if you don't you'll get grounded.
I think that sums it up pretty well tbh. Tunnelling and slugging do need addressing to keep the game fun for both sides, but I'd argue that focusing on incentives rather than punishment is the better method. Otherwise you end up with scenarios where strategy is diluted and game mechanics are open to abuse by either role
1
