http://dbd.game/killswitch
If the changes are good for the average survivors what about the average killers
Now before you say that the average killer don't tunnel or dlug or YOU have no problem with that, i will like to remind you that the average killer will get punished from this change want it or not .
The way they are made is to force you into this game play even you don't really used them. And survivors with any experienced will abuse them
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it's also used heavily in comps, because they know how powerful a full team of pro survs can be.
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You cant really compare it with comp. They know that tunneling is pointless against a good team of survivors with most killers. Thats why they mostly ban anti-tunnel-perks (and against some killer even exhaustion- and healing-perks), give the killer the best map and dont use the anti-camp-meter.
So if you take the comp-knowledge into account, you should never pick most of the killers.
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I think the average killer should be alright.
The basekit BBQ is great for the average player, it kinda nudges them towards good macro pressure in a nice way. The Haste is also pretty strong on the killers that get the stronger number, which is most killers, so that's nice.
The Pop is also nice, seems less impactful to me so far but we'll see how it is.The average killer, I feel, isn't sweating their ass off to win, so I don't feel the average killer will be affected by tunnelling becoming harder. I could see the six-hook penalty being invoked accidentally a few times, but that's probably about it.
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Its funny how many on this forum says that "only bad killer players tunnel" when the most experienced players - comp and not comp - tunnel heavily when they want to tryhard. Knightlight would be a bad player just because he chooses to tunnel a survivor in the early game? LOL I've went against many respected killer players in my region and they don't mind taking someone out of the game if they can.
A good killer player knows that leaving every survivor alive makes the match much harder than they need to be. I am sure that one of the best and most important killer knowledge in this game is knowing when, how and who to focus
Anyway I'm playing the PTB and survivor is easier than ever. Lets see what the devs are going to do with this patch before the live release.
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They are good for the average killer. Because "average" killer isn't going to attempt to win every single game and get a 90% winrate. Don't understand why you might think that tunneling is even okay for the game when that is the kind of statistic it can put into rotation.
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I played multiple hours of almost playing entire with my brain off and never once occurred the penalty, I was going for the first person I saw, constantly taking bad chases, and never putting pressure on the correct parts of the map. Yet again, never once got the penalties.
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You aren't playing to win. And that's the difference here. If you are playing casual, then this change means little. If you're playing with a competitive mindset, then the killer player's checklist just became much longer.
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I won 40% of the games I played with my first few being 1ks because I didn't understand the new killer well enough (rightfully so). You seem to have the mindset that if you are "trying" you deserve to win no matter what. You think the people I was playing against weren't experienced or trying? Because they were. But that's a moot point because Dead By Daylight is NOT A COMPETITIVE GAME. It is a horror themed party game, if you are actively going into games to try hard and ruin the experience for other players you are the problem and deserve to be punished for it. Because you seem to think only your enjoyment matters just because the game is competitive in your eyes.
Not to mention why even bring that up in the first place, this is a post about **AVERAGE PLAYERS** something I very blatantly said I was playing like during the games I played. If every single "high MMR" killer player gets punished because they can win every game anymore then good, they deserve that, having anything higher than 50% winrate in a "competitive" game shows severe imbalance, because thats obviously what high MMR players see the game as right? They aren't just trying to enjoy a fun party game?2 -
It's because saying "tunneling is what bad killers do" is just an attempt to shame killers in giving them an easier time.
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If we are talking about hard tunneling - hooking the same person until they are out of the game - not, i don't think its okay. But if we are talking about TRYING to get someone out of the game before all gen pops - because its the normal course of the game - i don't see any issue with this, even when it happens with me.
We as community really should discuss what we think is "tunneling" and what kind of "tunneling" is overall harmful to the game.
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If the game is arbitrarily ended for someone before even the halfway point it is an awful mechanic. Full stop. There is no "fun" there. Which by the way, is what matters in a game. Not competitive integrity, especially not in a damn party game. There is absolutely no skill is going back to unhook, waiting 10 seconds, and downing someone again and killing them at 4 gens to make the killers time easier in a 3v1. Nothing about that is skillful in the slightest.
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Sorry, but it is not "arbitrarily ended". You need to down a survivor before you can hook him/her. To tunnel someone out you need to win at least one chase after every unhooking. Unless the killer is proxy camping you will have sometime to move to a stronger loop than where you were rescued and do something; and even in this scenarios there is things you can do if your teammates help you. And we are not even considering the existance of the anti-tunnel perks, which haven't received any nerfs in this patch.
Also, unless its a cracked player with a very strong killer, like Blight, Nurse, Ghoul, Dracula, etc. i don't mind being tunneled if my teammates are doing gens, since someone - most of the time the other 3 teammates - is bound to escape if the killer does this.
EDIT: fun is quite controversial in this game. There are people who have fun doing winstreak in a 4 man squads with everything they can get; some like to be a top tier Ghoul/Blight/Nurse slugging at 5 gens trying to win as fast as possible. Other like to run funny builds and get value from them; etc etc.
Also, this has not been a "party game" for a long time. People have optmizing their strategies and gameplay for a long time that the initial imersion of the game is far gone from the early days of DBD when it could be called a "party game".
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Comp almost always tunnels and usually runs noed as well.
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You are putting words in my mouth. I mentioned nowhere that 'trying' equaled 'must win.' I simply stated that if you are going into the match with the intention of winning as killer, than the steps required to do so just became longer. The killer now has to manage slug timers, hook rotation, and an increased amount of survivor resources in the form of pallet density.
Just because the game isn't stated as being competitive officially, does not mean players can't, and won't, take it competitively. You may only think it casual, may not include your opponent, be it killer or survivor, who's trying to sweat. Additionally, why does a player 'going hard' equal 'ruining other players experiences?' If it's a casual, party game, than it shouldn't matter one way or another, as they'll just queue up again. Unless you're trying to win, which makes it competitive.
I brought it up because there are always two sides to a matter. In this case, as I stated, going in with a casual mindset, going with the flow type playstyle, will see little changes in the slugging/tunneling aspects (Though I think the increased pallet spawns are going to hurt already balanced maps, turning matches into pallet simulators than anything else). If you're going in to try and secure that W, the steps needed grew with this patch. That does not mean they 'deserve' the win. I only mean that it's not as cut and dry as it was.
Sure, you're going to have a few bad eggs out there that are toxic about it. Yes, you have killers that are out there taking the easier route in tunneling every survivor out of the match (SBMM is about to be put to the test when the patch goes live). But if the average killer is out to win, that win is now more difficult to obtain.-2 -
You've Pointed out something important here: people want killers to play with a more casual mindset (just going for any chases and hooks instead of thinking more strategically) while survivors can play more competitive with the intention to escape, don't matter the cost.
With time, the effect might be the contrary this people expect: players will just give up on low tier killers and start going for S or A+ tiers trying their hardest to win. Matches will probably be a much greater slog than they are today.
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No, its because at a baseline killer is significantly easier to play than survivor is. There is significantly more effort needed to play survivor at a bare minimum than it is killer. Speaking from STRICTLY a baseline. Two people with barely any knowledge of the game can play both roles and understand killer significantly faster. This also means that killers can be "competitive" faster, because their role is inherently easier. You say survivors are playing "competitively" when they are playing with the intention to escape, that is because that is survivors ONLY objective. Killers have multiple objectives to complete during a match, compared to the survivors singular. Killers can go for chases, go for spreading hooks, putting pressure on gens, on top of their power that adds another form of interaction to the game that killer players can use. Survivors have.. generators. That's it. They can't force a chase because the killer can ignore them, they can't force "pressure" on the map because their life is effectively expendable, pressure doesn't matter for them. Killers inherently interact with the GAME more than survivors do. So it's significantly easier for them to be "casual" compared to survivors.
You also blanketly state that survivors can play more competitive, meanwhile the vast majority of the survivor playerbase only cares about having fun and enjoying the game.3 -
I am The Average Killer and I don't tunnel or slug. I'm getting free buffs for already playing fair. I expect my KR to improve with this patch. At the least, it'll stay the same.
Most of the people I've seen complaining have high KRs and are thus at at a higher MMR than they should be and don't know any other tactics to stay there.
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Killer """massive""" killrates come from bad MMR and lack of knowledge from survivors against certain killers. Or you would say that Sadako is stronger than Nurse and Blight? Vecna - before the buffs - was the strongest killer in the game?
Truste me, it will become more of a slog in the patch goes like this. A part of the playerbase - the most casual - will just quit playing killer with time; other will move to the strongest killers, many trying to just power through the penalties with Blight and Nurse or going with the most meta build the can go.
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Your saying that someone who has decent hours as killer has a high kill rate solely from bad MMR and bad survivors? That's impossible. I'm only at average kill rate and I almost always get mid to very good people, even when I try a new killer for the first time.
All this apocalyptic predicting that everyone will now be Nurse and Blight is so overblown. Are you planning to play those two? Cause I'm not. And the only way this changes my build is that I can now drop Pop and BBQ. Mine will be less meta than ever.
If you're casual, then you probably have low to mid MMR and don't have to worry about these hypothetical 4-mans that will be sacrificing one of their own for a minor buff (a thing that will not be happening), or those super coordinated bully squads who mostly appear at upper MMR. Those average players are all getting help with this patch, both survivor and killer. The regular, ordinary, non-sweaty players are who it's for.
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Nobody uses Noed, bc its banned. A lot of perks on both sides are banned, so its kinda hard to say that comp killer play the most efficient for public lobbies.
But thats not the point. Yh tunneling/camping is the best strategy, but my point is: even that doesnt help you with a non S-/A-tier-killer if the survivor have anti-tunnel.
If you take comp (5 near optimal players) as an example its absolutely pointless to play most of the killer when survivor have no restrictions (public lobby).
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As killer players wouldn't have to master the killers themselves in differents levels of skill, for EVERY KILLER he wants to play too LOL. Killer can be "easier" at very low MMR but when people get a grasp on the game mechanics and basic its completly the other way around: its much harder to keep pressure as killer than its as survivor.
I'm just making it clear that the killrates you've brought came more from lack of tutorials and will to learn counterplay against certain characters rather than due to a "killer powercreep" or "handholding".
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Not its not. Many people datamined MMR and its not simple as its looks. There is a common medium MMR for every killer and its scales a little bit up and down depending on your current. If a experienced killer starts to play with Kraasue at her release he probably will face experienced survivors because the medium MMR is above the soft cap.
Also, you are forgetting that the more imbalanced the queues are, the worse the matching MMR will be. If there is a ton of survivors and not enough killers (or vice versa) the game will expand your MMR to be matched with anyone available. The devs itself already state that when they were experimenting with MMR.
Seriously, defending the current MMR system is borderline madness.
Do you have anything else to say?
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Now you are just twisting my words to get yourself an argument LOL i've never said that playing a newer killer in a lower MMR is bad, its just that MMR doesn't exist at all.
Anyway, this discussion with you is pure waste of time. Lets see how things will play out after the PTB.
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I'm literally in a comp discord right now with 7000 members and i'm literally staring at the list of banned perks for killers right now. And NOED is not on any of them.
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I think the problem here as seen in this thread is their is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a average player is and if this game is a party game or a competitive game. Honestly so much would be solved if they would just add a ranked mode and a casual mode. As many people assume as seen here if you play casually that cant mean your also playing to win. This is still a 1v4 game where killers obviously want to win their just not going out of their way to sweat by camping hooks and tunneling out survivors at 5 gens. Because they know that negatively affects the enjoyment of the player their doing it to. Though it seems many of those same players do not seem very concerned with those very same killers enjoyment in the game.
Post edited by SnakePVP on1 -
Well, everyone can play comp with their own rules. So every rule can exist.
But im talking about DBDleague, the biggest one with the best teams.
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I'm LITERALLY in the DBDLeague discord right now, STARING at the rules and NOED is not on the banlist.
EDIT: Fair enough, i found a post from a mod talking about it, looks like they haven't updated the rules on the bot yet but it was just banned for this season just a week or so ago.
My point still stands though, and to say "nobody uses NOED because its banned" when pretty much EVERYONE used NOED 2 weeks ago prior to the ban, still stands.
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Np, its a really recent change. I knew it bc i watched the last season and checked the season-ruleset pretty often.
Its always interesting to see what is not allowed. Even if its not always clear if the thing is too strong or if it would jusr make the comp-gameplay worse. Well, Noed is clearly strong and a endgame build could counter the new changes.
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