The x2 simple reasons the hatch and DS do NOT need a nerf
- Hatch: is easily countered with diversion tier 3, when the killer is standing in the hatch
- DS: is easily countered by juggling 1-4 times before hooking and with unnerving presence
Can we please stop once and for all the DS/Hatch discussion?
Comments
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Hatch takes no skill and is one easy escape just because 2 gen done ( you don't even need to make one gen in order to use it) and DS it gives a second chase or 30 sec ( at the very least ) in the first chase. Think this way if the killer has the same problem, no skill, and no counterplay, ( legion ) you will ask for nerfing why don't you apply the same logic here then?
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Juggling wastes time and isn't always possible.
UP still relies on the survivor messing up, plus who wants to bring a perk just for it that's worthless outside of meme builds against low ranks?
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DS is not easily countered, It's completely broken. It really should be an end game perk once gens are completed.
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@Bongbingbing said:
DS is not easily countered, It's completely broken. It really should be an end game perk once gens are completed.you can also be the clown and throw a bottle to urself before getting DSed
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@BACKSTABBER said:
@Bongbingbing said:
DS is not easily countered, It's completely broken. It really should be an end game perk once gens are completed.you can also be the clown and throw a bottle to urself before getting DSed
When you say countered, it means you have a 100% guaranteed chance to get rid of it. DS is not 100% countered because if you juggle, survivors can body block and if you have UP you need to rely on them messing up.
NOED is a perfect example of a 100% counter-able perk because if you cleanse all 5 totems, it will NOT activate but neither of those two points counter the hatch and DS.
The clown throwing the bottle doesn't counter DS either it just slightly slows them down, I don't get why people say DS has counters because it only has ways to make the punishment to the killer less harsh.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
@Bongbingbing said:
DS is not easily countered, It's completely broken. It really should be an end game perk once gens are completed.you can also be the clown and throw a bottle to urself before getting DSed
Or have Enduring with hag and trap the closer pallet but why you lost one perk for DS?
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I still can't believe people would rather spend 20 minutes trying to find 1 person because hAtCh BrOkEn0
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Hatch has been freebie to survivors forever. I feel it needs to stay in game (or make it that doors get powered if the hatch closing comes) so survivors dont take the killer hostage, but make hatch to give 5k points instead of 7k.
About DS:
Lets assume all 4 survivors have DS and catching up the survivor again takes you 20 seconds. That means 3 other survivors have 20 extra seconds on generators.
20 sec x 3 = 60 seconds = 3/4th of a generator for each DS.
3/4th of a generator x 4 equals 3 total generators completed when all 4 DS's are used.Seems balanced.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
- Hatch: is easily countered with diversion tier 3, when the killer is standing in the hatch
- DS: is easily countered by juggling 1-4 times before hooking and with unnerving presence
Can we please stop once and for all the DS/Hatch discussion?
lul
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Actually I think the hatch should only give 3k. For emergencies only. Aka final survivor no gates open. Like it should be.Laakeri said:Hatch has been freebie to survivors forever. I feel it needs to stay in game (or make it that doors get powered if the hatch closing comes) so survivors dont take the killer hostage, but make hatch to give 5k points instead of 7k.
About DS:
Lets assume all 4 survivors have DS and catching up the survivor again takes you 20 seconds. That means 3 other survivors have 20 extra seconds on generators.
20 sec x 3 = 60 seconds = 3/4th of a generator for each DS.
3/4th of a generator x 4 equals 3 total generators completed when all 4 DS's are used.Seems balanced.
And I think ds would be more suitable if it had a strong prerequisite to match the strength of the perk. Like you NEED to be the obsession (removing 3 other surprise nintendos) AND have all generators up and running.0 -
Neither of those are counters. You need to play the game more.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
- Hatch: is easily countered with diversion tier 3, when the killer is standing in the hatch
- DS: is easily countered by juggling 1-4 times before hooking and with unnerving presence
Can we please stop once and for all the DS/Hatch discussion?
Oh? You expect everyone to run Diversion every game? And you expect the killer to fall for it every time?
Nice bait post.1 -
Do you know diversion does because I really don't think you do.BACKSTABBER said:- Hatch: is easily countered with diversion tier 3, when the killer is standing in the hatch
- DS: is easily countered by juggling 1-4 times before hooking and with unnerving presence
Can we please stop once and for all the DS/Hatch discussion?
Juggling only works when you're close enough to a hook there are times where you are simply not close enough to a hook to get someone in them over there.
If you're going to list of counters please don't use unnerving presence as it's very dependent on the survivors skill a better counter would be enduring and even with that you still lose can you spend downing that person
.
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I agree with the DS. Dribbling is the best counter for this. I have no issue with this perk as the killer, since the hooks are very close to each other.
But the hatch is sometimes...bitchy in a lot of ways.0 -
@Aari_Piggy66 said:
BACKSTABBER said:
* Hatch: is easily countered with diversion tier 3, when the killer is standing in the hatch
* DS: is easily countered by juggling 1-4 times before hooking and with unnerving presence
Can we please stop once and for all the DS/Hatch discussion?Do you know diversion does because I really don't think you do.
Juggling only works when you're close enough to a hook there are times where you are simply not close enough to a hook to get someone in them over there.
If you're going to list of counters please don't use unnerving presence as it's very dependent on the survivors skill a better counter would be enduring and even with that you still lose can you spend downing that person
.these survivor mains think they hold all the solutions it sickens me just because they watch one he who must not be named videos they expect they can do it and when they fail they come whining on the forums
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Are you proposing the only problem with the hatch is the standoffs it tends to introduce? That isn't really it. It's a survivor sided mechanic that rewards bad survivor teams. Killers that would have otherwise gotten a 4k don't because one escaped through the hatch with 2 gens done. I personally don't care much about this, but some people do.
As for DS, juggling is only possible if you're close enough to a hook. You can't juggle to every hook, especially when they intentionally lead you to the corner where there are no hooks. Unnerving helps, but people are still able to hit the skillcheck as it's barely any different from hitting a great one. Unnerving isn't really worth the perk slot anyway except for meme builds. Enduring is better, but even that doesn't stop DS from being a broken tier perk1 -
@DexyIV said:
Are you proposing the only problem with the hatch is the standoffs it tends to introduce? That isn't really it. It's a survivor sided mechanic that rewards bad survivor teams. Killers that would have otherwise gotten a 4k don't because one escaped through the hatch with 2 gens done. I personally don't care much about this, but some people do.
As for DS, juggling is only possible if you're close enough to a hook. You can't juggle to every hook, especially when they intentionally lead you to the corner where there are no hooks. Unnerving helps, but people are still able to hit the skillcheck as it's barely any different from hitting a great one. Unnerving isn't really worth the perk slot anyway except for meme builds. Enduring is better, but even that doesn't stop DS from being a broken tier perkperfectly put
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@DexyIV said:
Are you proposing the only problem with the hatch is the standoffs it tends to introduce? That isn't really it. It's a survivor sided mechanic that rewards bad survivor teams. Killers that would have otherwise gotten a 4k don't because one escaped through the hatch with 2 gens done. I personally don't care much about this, but some people do.
As for DS, juggling is only possible if you're close enough to a hook. You can't juggle to every hook, especially when they intentionally lead you to the corner where there are no hooks. Unnerving helps, but people are still able to hit the skillcheck as it's barely any different from hitting a great one. Unnerving isn't really worth the perk slot anyway except for meme builds. Enduring is better, but even that doesn't stop DS from being a broken tier perkYou guys lost completely the perspective
this game has players (aka customers), and there will be also BAD players that need easy win methods and broken feats to give them some advantage due to their laziness or skillness for casual gaming, not always extremely skilled hardcore competitive!
a game with satisfied BAD players is profitable, no need that everyone becomes a pro!
DBD with no hatch + no DS would have more frustrated survs = less players = less profit
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Y'all getting baited here.0
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lol
Hatch has been survivor sided for almost 3 years.
Stop.
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@DarkGGhost said:
Hatch takes no skill and is one easy escape just because 2 gen done ( you don't even need to make one gen in order to use it) and DS it gives a second chase or 30 sec ( at the very least ) in the first chase. Think this way if the killer has the same problem, no skill, and no counterplay, ( legion ) you will ask for nerfing why don't you apply the same logic here then?LOL someone's asking for free 4k's then? Talk about no skill.
If you don't want them to hatch then slug. If the last guy takes the hatch just accept it as part of the game. You will still almost definitely pip as killer in these situations, you don't need to kill everyone every single game. Killers need to accept that survivors escape sometimes as much as survivors need to accept that killers kill sometimes. That's how the game works.
As for DS, I think the perk itself is fine my only gripe with it is when multiple survivors use it. And those non-obsession DS's are stronger than the obsession DS because you don't see it coming. At least with the obsession you know and therefore can play around it. I really don't get why non-obsessions can even use DS. It should be limited to the obsession only, where multiple instances of DS increase the skill check size or stun time or something for the obsession's DS. If you wanna use DS as a solo survivor MAN UP and equip another obsession perk to ensure you are an obsession.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
- Hatch: is easily countered with diversion tier 3, when the killer is standing in the hatch
- DS: is easily countered by juggling 1-4 times before hooking and with unnerving presence
Can we please stop once and for all the DS/Hatch discussion?
this won't help, people cry about ds I do aswell, unnerving is in my opinion, a perk that will make it harder to hit, but I always hit a unnerving ds so(stopped using ds cause it was a one time perk
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@thesuicidefox said:
@DarkGGhost said:
Hatch takes no skill and is one easy escape just because 2 gen done ( you don't even need to make one gen in order to use it) and DS it gives a second chase or 30 sec ( at the very least ) in the first chase. Think this way if the killer has the same problem, no skill, and no counterplay, ( legion ) you will ask for nerfing why don't you apply the same logic here then?LOL someone's asking for free 4k's then? Talk about no skill.
If you don't want them to hatch then slug. If the last guy takes the hatch just accept it as part of the game. You will still almost definitely pip as killer in these situations, you don't need to kill everyone every single game. Killers need to accept that survivors escape sometimes as much as survivors need to accept that killers kill sometimes. That's how the game works.
As for DS, I think the perk itself is fine my only gripe with it is when multiple survivors use it. And those non-obsession DS's are stronger than the obsession DS because you don't see it coming. At least with the obsession you know and therefore can play around it. I really don't get why non-obsessions can even use DS. It should be limited to the obsession only, where multiple instances of DS increase the skill check size or stun time or something for the obsession's DS. If you wanna use DS as a solo survivor MAN UP and equip another obsession perk to ensure you are an obsession.
And here the MAIN survivor
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@DexyIV said:
Are you proposing the only problem with the hatch is the standoffs it tends to introduce? That isn't really it. It's a survivor sided mechanic that rewards bad survivor teams. Killers that would have otherwise gotten a 4k don't because one escaped through the hatch with 2 gens done. I personally don't care much about this, but some people do.Actually the standoff IS the only problem with the hatch. If the devs would do something just to prevent a situation where both players are standing on an open hatch waiting for the other to do something, there wouldn't be any issue with the hatch.
Again killers asking for handouts. You don't need a 4k every game, accept that some survivors escape take your guaranteed pip and move on. "Killers that otherwise would 4k" no if you didn't catch and kill everyone you didn't 4k. Take out hatch and you just turn every 3k into a guaranteed 4k, that is extra lame and unskillful. Not to mention if you just took out the hatch, you'd just be playing hide and seek with the last guy for an hour because if he even attempts a gen he will die. Wow so much fun, can't wait to play that game.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
@DexyIV said:
Are you proposing the only problem with the hatch is the standoffs it tends to introduce? That isn't really it. It's a survivor sided mechanic that rewards bad survivor teams. Killers that would have otherwise gotten a 4k don't because one escaped through the hatch with 2 gens done. I personally don't care much about this, but some people do.
As for DS, juggling is only possible if you're close enough to a hook. You can't juggle to every hook, especially when they intentionally lead you to the corner where there are no hooks. Unnerving helps, but people are still able to hit the skillcheck as it's barely any different from hitting a great one. Unnerving isn't really worth the perk slot anyway except for meme builds. Enduring is better, but even that doesn't stop DS from being a broken tier perkYou guys lost completely the perspective
this game has players (aka customers), and there will be also BAD players that need easy win methods and broken feats to give them some advantage due to their laziness or skillness for casual gaming, not always extremely skilled hardcore competitive!
a game with satisfied BAD players is profitable, no need that everyone becomes a pro!
DBD with no hatch + no DS would have more frustrated survs = less players = less profit
You didn't even mention the business perspective in your original post so I figured your perspective was from a purely balancing one. Regardless, yea, that's probably why the hatch is there. Never denied it, never refuted it, was literally saying why people get pissed at the hatch and how hatch standoffs aren't the only problem
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@thesuicidefox said:
Actually the standoff IS the only problem with the hatch. If the devs would do something just to prevent a situation where both players are standing on an open hatch waiting for the other to do something, there wouldn't be any issue with the hatch.
Actually it's not the only problem, but it's the biggest one. Just because it isn't a problem to you and me doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
Again killers asking for handouts. You don't need a 4k every game, accept that some survivors escape take your guaranteed pip and move on. "Killers that otherwise would 4k" no if you didn't catch and kill everyone you didn't 4k. Take out hatch and you just turn every 3k into a guaranteed 4k, that is extra lame and unskillful. Not to mention if you just took out the hatch, you'd just be playing hide and seek with the last guy for an hour because if he even attempts a gen he will die. Wow so much fun, can't wait to play that game.
Bro I have no idea what your logic here is. I said that if
1: the hatch isn't in the game
2: the survivors are in a situation where it is impossible for them to complete their primary objective
and 3: the hatch is not in the game;
they would have gotten a 4k instead of a 3k. Once again, I don't care about losing someone to hatch. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, I'm saying why it's frustrating to have a kill slip through your fingers when you were clearly superior. I will say it again so you can get it in your head, I do not care about losing the last survivor to hatch, I am giving a different perspective.0 -
You forgot one thing btw.
Unnerving Presence (((((MAY))))) counter A Decisive Strike, not ALL Decisive Strikes.0 -
Is this bait?
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