http://dbd.game/killswitch
cant wait for the anti-tunnel
I am so excited for it.
tried 1v4 for the first time in a while as survivor….and each and every single match…one dude was tunneled immediately. the moment of unhook they would stop whatever they were doing and head back to hook. had an unknown drop chase with me just to warp back. a spirit phase away just to get back. a ghost face camp just far enough away to mark anyone with the unhook and tunnel. Another was an Artist that was just…the worst…and tunnled so aggressively hard for the mori. you can mori without tunneling btw. I had one blight who did not tunnel at all and hooked each of us one time, just like the beta. bro stomped on us. he was built different.
"Survivors when killers do their job". nah man, I've been a killer main since 2017 and the job is to serve the entity and the entity is basically the devs and the devs have spoken "tunneling aint cool man". you can win in a video game while also displaying human decency. everyone deserves to have fun.
I do play a lot of killer though and some of it has me concerned. I think there should be something to prevent it from ruining Sadako's whole power, condemning is already difficult enough. I think they should code in exceptions to the whole thing as a workaround. similar to how nurses m1 doesn't really count as an m1. or how the new speed boost in the anti-tunnel update effects killers differently. the six hook thing is annoying…but i can just kinda smack em if they keep running into me. In general it hasnt effected my gameplay very much at all as killer.
Other than that i am excited to see it in the game and am excited to play survivor for the first time in a very long time. I just hope there isn't a lot of bugs that come with it lol.
Comments
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You're not fooling anyone. Every post you make is glazing this update and expressing that you don't know the basic nuances of the role you profess to play more of.
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you give off a very hostile vibe. If you're not going to add anything to the discussion outside of angry assumptions…don't comment. I am excited for this change, a lot of people are. My opinion and their opinion are valid. I decided to make the post to reassure the devs they have support since statistically…angry people are more likely to speak up over happy people.
good on ya devs. thank you for making steep risks like this for the sake of community health/enjoyment 🎃
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"In general it hasn't effected my gameplay very much at all as killer":
well I lost yesterday because I played like the system wanted me to, so I can tell it does things and it's horrible. If you spread hooks actually, so you do what people want (1 hook on everyone, and then a second one on one of them) you effectively increase the border to be able to kill to 7 instead of 6. The person with 2 is the last hooked person then, so by actually killing them you make yourself lose in an instant by blocking your gens - so the system forces you to down in a specific pattern (person a, person b, person a, person b, person c and person a or b) to be even able to use it's 6 hooks border. There are also other patterns but they probably force you to be only able to kill one of them because of the last hooked rule, I think only my pattern allows two people to be really deathhook at 6 stages.
My point is that it's increadible annoying because it forces you so much to play ineffective, but at the same time it requires you to play relatively effective if you don't want to be punished in any way, because if you don't play at least relatively effective it punishes you for playing even nicer by extending the border to kill even more.
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"well I lost yesterday because I played like the system wanted me to"
losing is inevitable. in any competition or game or whatever have you. You can play as optimally and perfectly as possible and still lose in anything. Even without this change…I'm pretty sure no-one in DBD has a 100% victory rate. Devs have said if they notice a steep decline in killer ability, adjustments will be made.
I also think you and I have VASTLY different approaches to this game. You seem analytical and focus on strategy (prolly win alot more than me cuz of it). whereas i play mostly for memes now, i win more than I lose, but winning is just a welcome surprise to my shenanigans. Thats partly why I am excited for this update, because it'll force the repetitive "this is the optimal way to play" sort of gamers to shake things up and take it less seriously (i hope). Its like in chess how everyone plays by the same playbook so when someone comes a long and shakes things up its exciting and fresh again.-6 -
I wouldn't hold your breath on half of this making it live.
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yeah im not counting on the full force of it making it live….but even if the anti-tunnel is cut by half….i will be ecstatic. I just want to play a match without praying to god the guy being tunneled has DS or Off the record. I once went in fully stacked on second chance anti-tunnel perks. I used all of them in a single chase i was being tunneled so hard. I died but at least the others got out…only positive thing about getting tunneld
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Yeah, I wouldn't be getting too excited if I were you…
I was excited for the Fog Vials but I definitely won't be making that mistake again in a hurry!
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Yeah and look how minor those were compared to this.
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I don't even say that I shouldn't lose, but I could have won that easily. The system simply dragged my killborder even further out because I played too nice, and thats really stupid.
This system has to consistently prevent one thing and that is tunneling, but it doesn't only prevent tunneling but even playing nice, so it's a failure.
Honestly I think I have to play even more serious like this, I'm maybe not tunneling one person out anymore, but instead i'm forced to switch between 2 people and I have to down them quick to win in case of stronger teams. I'd say I could play less agressive on worse teams, but dbd doesn't really tell you how good your opponents are and I only see that when I'm already losing then.
Well in the end you're right and we think different, but I didn't mean it against you just to be clear.
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Also im overall pretty average regarded to my stats:
And with huntress even worse (to be fair I started playing her pretty much at the start, so the stats have me with 200 hours in it):
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I just wanna point out that you'll be punished for accidentally running into the survivor multiple times, or they keep testing you.
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We killer mains are human players. We want to play the way we like. We are costumers. The Devs job is to please us, because we PAID for the product. We ain't here to entertain the survivor player. If you don't like that, ask for killer bots. You can set up rules for them. If that's the way you want to play, why are you playing an asymetrical horrror survival game to beginn with??
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Every single time I play killer I get genrushed where is my anti-genrush mechanic
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. You can play as optimally and perfectly as possible and still lose in anything
Wrong. According to this very community, if you lose = you are bad, you aren't worthy of basic respect, you deserve to be smeared in dirt and harassed, and mocked till the winners have enough. You aren't a person, you a barely a human. And if you don't like this treatment, it's on you because git gud.
This is the mentality people come to this game, this is the mentality they learn and this is the mentality BHVR encourages.
If the main goal of Killers is no longer to kill but to let Survivors have fun, they should have shifted the objective of the game and introduced the alternative quests for Killers to fulfill, instead of providing one side with all the options to opt out or get a second chance, while telling the other side that it's basically their fault for trying to play as a Killer in the first place.
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oh i know you didnt mean anything against me lol. downside of chat forums is that its hard to capture intent and emotion. There is 100% going to be a spike in lost games for killers. ESPECIALLY for those who strictly rely on tunneling, and itll get frustrating at times when you get that one goober brain survivor that is just always there infront of you. it def needs some work, but i would rather this than the alternative. Personally i dont care in the slightest about my mmr, stats, or even winning. I used too…but after nearly a decade of playing this game, i kinda stopped caring about that and cared more about having what i conider to be genuine casual fun. So if my mmr drops as a consequence of this….oh well. Low mmr is better for memes and goofing off anyway. More personality when youre not in "comp mentality" mmr.
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this community is very toxic. I blame it on the wave of hyper-competitive players. Everything is about what is meta, everything has to be an "S-tier", and have their entire emotional well-being placed on winning a match. Its being a slave to ego is how I look at it. They take the laughter and joy out of video games simply because they feel entitled to win. its obnoxious and i disdain this mentality, they're the type of people to leave their shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot because "its not my job, they get paid to do it, not me". I just roll my eyes and continue being happier than them lol.
Anyway, the goal of the killer is not to let survivors have fun. That is the goal of the devs. They have to ensure that both sides are happy and the community is moving into a balanced and mutually enjoyable experience to maintain player base. Sometimes, a consequence of that is one of the sides taking a hit for the overall health of the game. You can still kill, be scary, torment them….but the devs decided (and rightfully so), that enough is enough and survivors are people too. Because the Killer is the "power role" those who main them feel entitled to absolute domination. They are not actually a supernatural killer, they're just a dude in a gaming chair playing with dudes in other gaming chairs. They forget that the game depends on BOTH sides having a fun and playable match. Anti-Tunneling does not rob the killer of the power role or its purpose. If anything it adds more purpose by pushing them from the repetition of "only focus one guy" and makes them focus on map control, chase skill, and decision-making. Survivors still have plenty of ways to lose, they're just hard nerfing the cheesiest and least skillful method of doing that.
I have spent my entire DBD career (since 2017) not ever tunneling and do perfectly fine, above average I would say. Its not the end of the world or DBD, just the end of an unhealthy playstyle.
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I rather say it one time too much than not often enough, I feel like I sound really harsh sometimes and I'm simply scared that people think I attack them personally.
I mean you should never entirely rely on tunneling that's true, but even before that made you lose depending on map and survivors. Well while I don't really play comp-like I also don't hold back anything normally, my fun comes from trying winning not from meming around.
I prefer to see it like this:
why do I play a pvp game if I don't want to win or at least play against other people really? I could also play a mmo or at least a multiplayer game with focus on casualty (probably the wrong word? Well you probably know what I mean xD) or something like this, and then I would have a lot of people meming around with me instead of people that ether want to meme OR play against me.
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Gen-rush is hella annoying. I hate the swf squads that hop on the generator as soon as you break. Take five steps away and turn around just to see them rushing it. It sucks, its annoying, but it does not rob me of the experience as much as tunneling does. Gen-rushing makes the match shorter for EVERYONE. Where as tunneling is the intentional targeting of one specific player. Fortunately unmanageable gen-rushing is no-where near as common or as problematic as tunneling. If it is that common of an occurrence and an issue, I would try swapping builds or killers for a bit, or change up tactics. A lot of killer players have an incredibly similar playstyle which makes genrushing and predicting them second nature.
For example, i used to get gen-rushed as deathslinger A LOT. and honestly any non-mobile killer. I changed my build to be a stealth slinger build that focuses on longshots. now I sweep matches, even the super sweaty toxic swf rushers. I also get mad props for the shots I pull off. Meta is only meta because its one size fits all…not that its optimal for your playstyle. experiment a bit. I dont even run gen perks on my ghostface and I win a solid 85-90% of my matches. Spirit is also good for genrushing. I get so many grabs on those guys. ill hit a guy and their buddy will be like "surely the spirit is going to phase to them for the down" and immediately gets on the gen next to me….just to get yoinked because they forgot i have ears, eyes, and a brain.
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Genuinely cant tell if this is sarcasm or not….😥
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I mean you stated that you dont play to win and just play causally for fun. So of course the changes do not affect your enjoyment as your never seriously playing seriously to win and as you noted your in low MMR so you dont deal with high MMR SWF.. The key problem that creates so much of the toxicity you talk about is that the Devs refuse to split the game into a ranked competitive queue and a causal queue effectively forcing the two communities of players wanting different types of experiences to intermingled at everyone's detriment. You speak about both sides a lot but for people playing to win the lose lose scenarios you talk about where bad players caught out just have to be chased and slugged if your lucky if they were past hook or on two hook before 6. That used tk be a hook now a killer either has to ignore them or just get a slug. In addition to how SWF can abuse these changes or have two players go rat forcing the killer to play locker simulator to track them down as they extend the 6 hook protection period, or how gen rushing was still a prominent complaint from killers and their enjoyment and they added a gen regression perk nerf ontop of all these changes.
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oh i totally agree. A pvp game relies on that dopamine hit with each victory. But it can also suffer negatively from unhealthy playstyles and toxic players…something DBD is ripe with. Playing to win is natural and apart of everyone's psychology, my beef is with those who take it so far that they view others, not as healthy competition, but as meat for the slaughter. Like their only purpose is to feed their ego. That's usually the case with tunnelers…they have a very "im not responsible for your fun" attitude. Like no your not, but youre also not entitled to our suffering and when you live selfishly dont be surprised when noone wants to play with you and you're met with hate. I think the devs saw that with tunneling and sought to correct.
Im all for playing to win…as long as its done in a healthy manner. All sports and competitions have unwritten rules of respect they follow. Even in professional sports many times they do not run up the score significantly out of respect. its etiquette and huma decency and I dont see why video games…where most of us dont get paid millions of dollars to do so…cant act with the same respect. I went up against a blight ealier that absolutley curb stomped my team. dude did not tunnel and followed the six hook rule thing from the ptb. It was a fun and impressive loss and good times in post game chat. Later I went against a spirit who tunneled the living hell out of a feng then attempted to do it to a lara croft. Everyone, including the killer, was salty and rude post game. Killer because they only got one kill due to tunneling, and the survivors because its bad sportsmanship.
As survivor i usually match the energy of the lobby. If my team is goofin off…ill join em. If the killer is a vibe then ill vibe with them, but generally i play to win. As killer my "win" isnt the usual defintion set by this game. I usually load in with a build and a goal and if i achieve that then I still get that "high" ppl get from victory. I do get regular wins more often than not though. Like back when scratched mirror myers was alive and well i would simply play with the goal of getting jumpscares, usually let the fun survivors live.
point is….play to win. everyone does. Just don't stoop to the lowest level to do it and treat your competition like sub-human waste.
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go play the PTB, adjust to the changes. It is not that deep. The issue is the psychology of tunnelers. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TUNNEL TO WIN. Catering to a small but very loud portion of comp kids, is not what is in the best interest of the game. There is a reason why 2v8 is so popular….its casual and both sides enjoy the match, which cannot be said about 1v4 tunneling. Tunneling is less about strategy and more about exploiting a low-effort path to victory, and the psychology behind it reflects that. Many killers tunnel because it gives them a sense of control and efficiency, but in reality it removes the need for skillful map pressure, chase variety, or resource management. Others do it out of spite, targeting survivors who looped them or acted in ways they perceived as disrespectful, which turns the match into a personal vendetta rather than a competitive game. Tunneling also stems from fear of losing; some killers panic when generators go quickly and latch onto one survivor just to secure a kill, even if it ruins the match for everyone else. Psychologically, it is a shortcut that reduces cognitive demand and responsibility: focusing on one target avoids the challenge of managing multiple survivors. Many justify it by saying “the game allows it, so it’s fair,” but this entitlement ignores the larger balance and longevity of the game. From the survivor perspective, tunneling feels like targeted harassment, leading to frustration, rage-quits, and disengagement, which hurts both sides in the long run. This is why developers work to curb tunneling; it undermines fairness, enjoyment, and the overall health of Dead by Daylight.
Yes, SWF groups can abuse things; there is always a way to abuse any new mechanic. But the problem with the “SWF” argument is that most of them aren’t competitive, and honestly, they aren’t even that skilled. The only time I play survivor is for Rift challenges or when friends invite me, and my SWF is usually just messing around and playing badly. For the majority, SWF just means people hopping on after work or school to relax with friends. The real problem comes from the hyper-competitive mindset players on both sides, not the average group. Basing balance decisions on the rare experiences of a tiny percentage of the player base is a mistake.
And if you look at the devs’ choices, it’s clear they don’t want Dead by Daylight to be an esport. They’ve never pushed for a ranked competitive mode, and for good reason. Competitive games are often swamped with toxicity and cheating from people desperate to prove they’re “the best.” The devs are aiming for casual enjoyment, not a competitive scene.
Its very simple. Give yourself a chance to adapt and try the changes. The devs have stated multiple times they will adjust things accordingly even killer buffs, which should be an exciting consequence for killers. Just think of it as paving the way for better balance and future killer buffs.
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I'm not pro tunneling I just think these changes affect to much that they do more than just act as a protection mechanism against tunneling. I pointed out the mode issue as the divide in the community is clear to see. If the devs decided they want the game to be only a party game thats fine, but it will certainly result in some players leaving. Im just saying they keep dancing around this issue and it has created the current divide. I agree you dont have to tunnel to win, but I think you are downplaying the effect of these changes quite a bit. If you have one slightly long early chase, or miss a hook chance, ect your are going to a 2-3 gen situation in most games before getting to 6 hooks especially on some low movement killers if you truly try to play fair and spread hooks. This is without playing a bully squad or a squad thay rats to extend the 6 hook protection. This results in a worse gameplay experience and the only feedback I see is killers either need to deal or ironically enough play full sweat high movement characters and treat every game as a super competitive game where they rush down kills regardless of the penalties. Lastly I think its a bit unfair to basically say every killer should conform to your style of play and find enjoyment with it or just quit. I mean their is a different in being a mega tunneler and playing this game in with a competitive mindset want to win against the survivors that is far different then the fun house style experience it looks like your trying to provide. I also think that type of play doesn't really keep killer mains here full time as it seems like your doing more of a service of experience style mode messing with streamers and such. Lastly I think trusting in the Devs will be hard as I think current trust in Devs for a lot of killers is quite low right now. I mean gen rushing was a major complaint from many killers about their enjoyment of the game and they slap a gen regression perk nerf ontop of all these changes. What a terrible way to build that bridge of trust.
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Because the Killer is the "power role" those who main them feel entitled to absolute domination. They are not actually a supernatural killer, they're just a dude in a gaming chair playing with dudes in other gaming chairs.
Here is the contradiction: you say that the Killer is the power role, so it must automatically suck it up and endure everything thrown at them, while acknowledging that they're just people playing with other people. So, just like other people, they become frustrated and lose enjoyment in the game — when they lose and when they are punished both by the game and the winners. This very forum already had a case where the user's friend tried to get into DbD as a Killer, only to encounter a sweat squad that bullied her relentlessly, mocked her in the endgame chat, telling her to uninstall and calling her a total failure. You think she'd want to go back to this game afterwards? For what? For more abuse? What is her incentive? Is she supposed to have fun with those people?
You can still kill, be scary, torment them
The game doesn't give you points for tormenting or being scary. You get most amount of points and grow your rank for hooks and kills.
Survivors still have plenty of ways to lose, they're just hard nerfing the cheesiest and least skillful method of doing that.
There is not such thing as skill in gaming. It's not a sport, it's not a craft, it's not a science, it's enterainment that doesn't provide people with any skills or talents they will use in real life. To chastise people that they aren't winning "skillfully" while simultaneously nurturing the culture of winning and dehumanization of those who lose matches is ridiculous.
this community is very toxic. I blame it on the wave of hyper-competitive players. Everything is about what is meta, everything has to be an "S-tier", and have their entire emotional well-being placed on winning a match
And this community isn't going to get better, so it's up to devs to fix that. However, they continue to equip one side with more toxicity, while shrugging the concerns of the other side and basically replying with "do better" or "it's your fault for feeling bad when a squad makes your game miserable"
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Well while I'm not thinking or playing like people are just something to hunt I am probably a little bit mean sometimes. I had someone that was 10 seconds or something from dying on hook, saviour tried to dodge my hatchet and and ran between hook and wall - I bodyblocked that until the person on hook was dead and then hit the survivor. I never intend from the start to play very mean, but I use it more often than not if I get the option for that.
I generally also have this attitude, but I also have to say that I started with that because I was very annoyed after sometime by people tbagging all the time. I played without tunneling and camping and because of that I got tbagged often, after I a while I started doing that because it was holding me back, and I started caring less for peoples fun because it feeled like it was often also not the case the other way around. Today I still play like this but only in a way where I wouldn't be too upset myself, still get a lot of hatecomments, but I collect them anyways because it's funny xD
I guess I'm somewhere in between, i'm not that trashy morally but by far not the best person you can find ^^
I also actually set myself goals to win sometimes, but that's mostly when my girlfriend watches and wants me to play something specific. If she wants to see perkless scratchmirror I will set myself 2k as win for sure xD
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This very forum already had a case where the user's friend tried to get into DbD as a Killer, only to encounter a sweat squad that bullied her relentlessly, mocked her in the endgame chat, telling her to uninstall and calling her a total failure. You think she'd want to go back to this game afterwards? For what? For more abuse? What is her incentive? Is she supposed to have fun with those people?
This would be such a valid point if it ever got brought up outside the context of 'survivors shouldn't get their issues addressed'.
Legit, why's there so many topics about a nebulous 'genrushing' when this is on the table?
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"Everyone, including the killer, was salty and rude post game. Killer because they only got one kill due to tunneling,"
The killer only got 1K due to tunneling? So, if tunneling is causing only 1Ks, so why survivors complain?
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He is just perfect desciption of 100% pure survivor main, he doesnt care for other side becasue he doesnt even play it so if this makes survivor easier this will benefit him and it ok just love this kind of players saying killers is easy becasue they get 4k every time not mentioning their mmr on killer is very low just like those tiktok guys posting clips where they run and spun the hell out of baby killer calling themself good and being toxic to that killer.
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I speak only for myself, but I don't recall ever complaining about genrushing specifically.
Yes, gen repair speeds and nerfed regression are annoying, but it was adressable by switching to aura reading perks and perks that help Killer complete every action faster, in addition to using different strategies. I don't blame Survivors for fixing gens fast, I blame them for toxicity and I blame BHVR for leaving fewer and fewer options for low-mobility Killers.
I spoke specifically from the perspective on in-game BMing and abusing of certain features that is addressed for the one side and completely ignored for the other side because "you're the power role, you can handle it". Therefore, I get it why people stressed about having to go though more pressure in a game where the community itself pressures them to either win or be bullied.
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Nope. You dont understand the "psychology of tunneler". Why should the whole point be a killer issue"? Why do we have to adjust to bad survivor plays? Sometimes I have the same idiot running into me 3 times in a row, why should I get punished for it. The unhooked guy is injured, bleeding and grunting, but I have to ignore him on purpose or I get punished? There a hundreds of scenarios where a killer gets punished for just playing the game and doing his objective. Survivor have call moments in a match, the killer is constantly under pressure and now he get to juggle an extra micromanagement to keep track who he is allowed to chase or hook?
That's silly.
Where are the new mechanics againsr Gen-Rush? Or Looping? Or pallet vacuum?
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Here is the contradiction: you say that the Killer is the power role, so it must automatically suck it up and endure everything thrown at them, while acknowledging that they're just people playing with other people. So, just like other people, they become frustrated and lose enjoyment in the game — when they lose and when they are punished both by the game and the winners.
Killers are the power-role in the sense that they control how much of the game the survivors can play. If a Killer so desires (be it by Tunneling or Slugging for example) the Killer can essentially remove one or multiple survivors from the match, or pretty much make them unable to interact in any meaningful way. If survivors could force Killers to be unable to attack or progress the game in their favor, imagine the outcry that would happen. Granted it wouldn't make sense either of course, but the underlying issue here is fun and engagement. Right now (on live servers anyways), Killers can decide whether or not you are allowed to have fun in the match. These changes will take that away from Killers to some extent.
BHVR wants to streamline the game a bit with these changes, because this is probably what they think will cause the highest engagement between survivors and killers. Also, saying the Killer role has to "suck it up" when they could choose to make people unable to play the game for years now is some hilarious hypocrisy. You know "Your fun isn't my responsibility, so enjoy hogging the floor for four minutes until you die.".There is not such thing as skill in gaming. It's not a sport, it's not a craft, it's not a science, it's enterainment that doesn't provide people with any skills or talents they will use in real life. To chastise people that they aren't winning "skillfully" while simultaneously nurturing the culture of winning and dehumanization of those who lose matches is ridiculous.
Claiming that there is no skill in gaming is certainly one of the takes of all time. Take any game for that matter and match someone with 1000 hours versus someone that just started and see who will win the majority of times if not all the time. The overwhelming chances are that people with more time invested and more learned about the game will win. There is a reason e-sports exist with large price pools and giant followings. Only a few people will ever reach the skill to participate in the highest echelons of a game, which is pretty much the exact same as to how real sports like football or basketball operate.
Also, I don't know where you got that one-sided "dehumanization" from. If anything that happens on both sides and feeds into each other in a vicious cycle, like it has been doing for years now.7 -
Also, saying the Killer role has to "suck it up" when they could choose to make people unable to play the game for years now is some hilarious hypocrisy. You know "Your fun isn't my responsibility, so enjoy hogging the floor for four minutes until you die.".
This is because:
If anything that happens on both sides and feeds into each other in a vicious cycle, like it has been doing for years now.
Which is why I explicitly mention that one side is given measures against toxicity, while the other one isn't. I provided an example about how this community treats new players — none of them have the incentive to care about other people's fun in this game. The only way to make sure it happens is to provide both sides with such measures. Until them, no positive engagement between Killers and Survivors can happen — the key is to making sure they interact less.
Claiming that there is no skill in gaming is certainly one of the takes of all time. Take any game for that matter and match someone with 1000 hours versus someone that just started and see who will win the majority of times if not all the time
And? Once people get used to the game, it's easier for them to win at it. It's not some special talent. Once again, achievements in games aren't doing anything for improvment of physical condition or mental capacity. They don't expand useful knowledge or can be applied in life. They aren't skills.
The overwhelming chances are that people with more time invested and more learned about the game will win. There is a reason e-sports exist with large price pools and giant followings.
Esports are just an example of human greed and shalowness, not to mention the exploitation of people. Doesn't serve as a proof of a skill.
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Which is why I explicitly mention that one side is given measures against toxicity, while the other one isn't. I provided an example about how this community treats new players — none of them have the incentive to care about other people's fun in this game. The only way to make sure it happens is to provide both sides with such measures. Until them, no positive engagement between Killers and Survivors can happen — the key is to making sure they interact less.
It is a vicious cycle, meaning the same way it spiraled downwards means it can go upwards. What I am trying to say is, even if they just address one side for now, it will inevitably have an effect on both sides. This is not some competition where people should argue which side has gotten the longer end of the stick. The point is that there is a stick now. Measures like this will inevitably make the game less toxic on both sides.
For example: Killer A tunnels or slugs out Goodie Twoshoes survivor B, who then evolves into his final survivor form: rat survivor B. He will now start teabagging and being annoying however he can to goodie twoshoes Killer C who had nothing to do with the previous interaction. Goodie Twoshoes Killer C will now evolve into HIS final form too and punish survivors who had nothing to do with the previous interaction either.
Now instead, Killer A will not be able to do that, causing Survivor B to stay nice, which then causes Killer C to stay nice. Now I am aware that it is a bit more complicated than that, and might not always play out like that, but even if it does SOMETIMES, then it will have a longlasting effect on game health. Butterfly effect and all. This is just the route BHVR chose. You don't need to give both sides something for both to benefit from it (Besides, Killers now have basekit pop, Basekit bbq and some decent haste, so they DID get something, just not what people might have wanted).And? Once people get used to the game, it's easier for them to win at it. It's not some special talent. Once again, achievements in games aren't doing anything for improvment of physical condition or mental capacity. They don't expand useful knowledge or can be applied in life. They aren't skills.
Saying that people get used to the game, making it easier for the win is just a different way of saying they are more skilled at the game. Also, games absolutely can improve "real life skills", if you don't wanna count how good someone is in a game as a skill. Video games have been proven to improve reaction time and problem solving capabilities for example, which are most definitely skills that can help you in real life, improving your mental capacities.
Esports are just an example of human greed and shalowness, not to mention the exploitation of people. Doesn't serve as a proof of a skill.
You have a bleak outlook on humanity. You need to separate between those that plan those tournaments, and the players that play in those tournaments.
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I spoke specifically from the perspective on in-game BMing and abusing of certain features that is addressed for the one side and completely ignored for the other side because "you're the power role, you can handle it".
That has never been the argument. The complaint about these things making the game harder for killers has always been answered with 'Killer is the role with the far higher success rate, it can survive a knock'.
The term 'power role' has pretty much exclusively been used to argue in favour of the killer being overpowered or oppressive, not by people talking arguing for survivor buffs.
Also, the 'issues being ignored' problem stems in large part from a community that fails to communicate its issues to the developers. Like I said, the issue of bully squads is a valid concern to have, but it's practically ONLY brought up to try and stop fixes for survivor issues from being put through.
I am 100% in favour of nerfs to hook denial, but I also feel I'm practically the only one!
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I think the devs should be able to see, through the new stat tracker, which players actually tunnel a lot. That way, they can tell when the complaints are just coming from bad apples who are upset they can’t rely on the easy-mode strategy anymore. Honestly, most of the people whining are the same ones who camp hooks, trade hooks, and refuse to improve at the killer they’re playing.
1 -
Now instead, Killer A will not be able to do that, causing Survivor B to stay nice, which then causes Killer C to stay nice. Now I am aware that it is a bit more complicated than that, and might not always play out like that, but even if it does SOMETIMES, then it will have a longlasting effect on game health. Butterfly effect and all. This is just the route BHVR chose. You don't need to give both sides something for both to benefit from it (Besides, Killers now have basekit pop, Basekit bbq and some decent haste, so they DID get something, just not what people might have wanted).
Survivor B won't stay nice just because Killer A isn't able to go against the rulebook. Survivor B will lean into the gang mentality and join the group in aggravating and bullying Kiiler A because a) they have an advantage and they need to show they're superior, b) monkey see-monkey do mindset. From my anecdotal standpoint, I have seen more Killers being more protective of Survivors and their game, meanwhile so far I have been the only Survivor to tell the BMers to shut their face up and be normal in the engame chat.
All while Killer A has no way to dip out and continue being a punching bag or an entertainment. Usually places where people pay to get degraded and humiliated have higher age restrictions.
You can't fix the issue by adressing just one side — because it makes this ones side feel like it was in the moral right all along and lean further into "us with them" mentality. You need to address both sides in order to get any tangible effect. In that case, if Killers should care about other Survivrs fun and killing is no longer a priority, they should a) have other objectives that would reward them in a way that would compensate lack of hooks and kills, b) be able to abandon the game if they clearly lost all the gens and don't feel like trying to make a comeback. I'm not even saying about removing endgame chat and limiting player interactions.
Saying that people get used to the game, making it easier for the win is just a different way of saying they are more skilled at the game.
Just because I figure out how to put a jiggsaw puzzle together doesn't mean I got a new skill or became some sort of a champion. I just understood how it works.
Video games have been proven to improve reaction time and problem solving capabilities for example, which are most definitely skills that can help you in real life, improving your mental capacities.
These aren't the same competitive games esport are centered about.
You have a bleak outlook on humanity. You need to separate between those that plan those tournaments, and the players that play in those tournaments.I have a very realistic, not sugar-coated outlook on humanity. Players who play in those tournaments are just grinders used by corporations.
-7 -
The game I just played Wesker tunneled Ace as soon as the game started. Less than 3 minutes and Ace was already hooked twice and immediately quit. Now I see they aren't going through with the update in order to appease players who tunnel and slug. I also played a match where The Doctor slugged everyone at the start of the game, again everyone quit and I was just laying there while The Doctor did the shock emote on me for like 5 minutes because I didn't want a penalty from leaving the game. Absolutely miserable, then he carried me to hatch while I was scrolling through Spotify and closed hatch just to mori me. I've played against amazing killers who didn't tunnel or slug to win, so it makes no sense why BHVR chooses to appease the IMO low skilled ragebait killers.
6 -
Is there a dude in here saying skill doesn't exist in video games? What about racecar drivers? Golfing? Bowling? None of these things take much athletics capabilities just time investments of doing them over and over. Until you get proficient oops I see what just happened it's like practicing a skill in time it gets better.
Btw I'm some one who has practiced tossing a partially empty water bottle on to tables from various distances to land right side up. Pointless but a skill nonetheless
5 -
This will change the fact is this antichanges were meant to stop tunneling at 5 gens and punish it or sluging whole team which is only counterable with perks and good coordination but there was still mistake and huge one and that was killers that didnt get enough hooks and got someone killed with one tunnel (hooking someone twice in a row on purpose or by finding them in dead zone etc.) on few gens left were punished same or even killer that spread hooks till 8 hook stages could get same punishment as blight/wesker tunneling at 5 gens someone out so game is in his favor 3v1 on 4-5 gens which is mostly guarantee win if survivors wont pull some legendary moves and long very long chases while others are doing gens as fast as they can without creating 3 gen. Same for slugging there could be perk in a play like exponencial and survivors are all rushing last gen and forcing you to slug them to stop them but they keep getting up and totem is on the second floor or far away and killer cant get it in time so he will loose gens, twins which didnt get any change how to get charlotte to the downed survivor across the map yes they are a-tier and strong killer but punishing the most least played killer wont bring people to play it if she gets almost skullmerchant treatment for her to be c-tier or lower and oni sorry but he has to work his ass to get power in 1v4 not like in 2v8 where legion just gives you power for free and 5 blood orbs are almost nothing compare to loosing charges from blood furry so it should be atleast 10 blood orbs. Other problem is these changes will hit hardest weakest killers and some of them are fun for many survivors to go against guess what there will be less of them because bhvr cant buff or rework them all in year or two so people will just drop them and go main other fun and strong killers like wesker,blight etc. which isnt fun for survivors too just go against same two killers in few games.
-3 -
This update is a neccesary evil that needs to happen. Numbers tweaked a bit, but ever since they cancelled it, the following things have happened:
1. Slugging has increased 3x
2. Tunnelling at 4-5 gens has been easily doubled
3. I've had certain killers basically abuse their ability to rush someone out, which I havent seen since anti-facecamp was introduced.
At this point, just release the update with reduced numbers.
"But killers do their job"
You know who else was just doing their job of surviving? Survivors. Yet, we have window blockers. We have a basekit slowdown if 2 survivors are on 1 gen. We have conspicious actions to cancel perks like DS and BT. We have exhaustion introduced as a generic status effect affecting exhaustion perks. We have hooks respawning within 30 seconds instead of 3 minutes, which is already a reduction because hooks never used to respawn.
All that, was just survivors doing their job of surviving too. All of those were neccesary evils that needed to be introduced for killers to have fun, most of those mechanics needed tweaks after implementation but they were implemented regardless because people were done.
Now a neccesary evil is introduced on killer side to ensure survivors having fun. Survivors are done with playing in this way. Yet not its being pushed back another 3 months just because killers dont want their toy taken away?5 -
i hate the "killers job is supposed to kill" argument. Yes, that is a part of it but the actual job description is to serve the entity. The devs are essentially the entity and despite chickening out of an update they have blatantly stated that this behavior is toxic, frowned upon, and will be addressed in future updates.
4 -
You're an indecent human because you want to win a video game? What the hell kinda logic is that?
-5 -
The other 80% of the players in your game PAID for it as well. Want to try again?
8 -
taking things out of context final boss
7 -
100%. If 3 years of a more Killer-focused development cycle hasn't made the game enjoyable, then it's time to go back to the drawing board and figure out something better. I agree with the very vocal sentiment that the game shouldn't punish players for something they didn't do (very BAD timing given anti-go next, but y'know). I'm hoping that BHVR's intentions here are good and they won't let the system sit for any longer than it has to before trying again.
Players are way too morality-driven in my opinion. My stance on going next is treated historically like an intensely political debate topic. 😵
9 -
Honestly, I dont mind if they reduce the numbers to absolute bare minimum. That would have already prevented 10 extremely boring games from playing the way they did in the past 3 days. We wouldnt have won, but at least we would have had fun.
3 -
I don't need to, because killer don't brag about how the other plays should be allowed to play.
Survivors mindset: there is no gen rush, we just die our objective, it's the killers Lack of skill.
But killer should only be allowed to kill the way we wabt it. Killer should be not allowed to chase after an an unhooked znless he gut fully healed. Killer should be allowed to hook the same survivor in a row. But in case he dowbs a recwbt hooked survivor,, that guy deserves a free unbreakable.
You notice the difference? Survivor DEMAND rules hiw the killer should play. That's not healthy for a PVP game. If you want that, go ask for a PVE mode with killer bots.
-10 -
You notice the difference? Survivor DEMAND rules hiw the killer should play. That's not healthy for a PVP game. If you want that, go ask for a PVE mode with killer bots.Yes, killers have never had a problem with how survivors played or have strategies completely removed from the game.
I must have imagined when things like FTP+BU existed and killers complained about it until it was removed.
And all those complaints about survivors going down on pallets with conviction? Guess those never happened.
And no killer has ever asked for Windows to be nerfed because it is a 'low skill' perk.
Let's not forget how all killers love SWFs and would never accuse them of being cheaters.
Instablinds? Mathieu Cote was practically doubled over with joy when he had to play against it.
Of course bully squads are a welcome and valuable part of the game, according to killers. They are clearly called bully squads because its a compliment much in the way Teddy Roosevelt used the word.
Truly killers would never suggest that certain things survivors can do are unfair or should be removed from the game.
Post edited by crogers271 on12 -
Well i was excited for it too. No matter how it came out. So we will have to wait for the revised version. I even played as the krasue that entire ptb, had a ton of fun, that system didnt bother me much at all either since i alredy try to play honorably over winning at all costs. Unless its an experienced team that wont even let you pick someone up theres no reason to slug the whole team. If your against a team that you are clearly going to lose against, i don't see the sense in flipping a switch and making them all miserable by using the dirtiest tactics you can to win. And if its a bully squad that clearly is just playing to annoy you, by all means they are asking you to go all out and stoop to their level. Otherwise in a normal round you dont need to win, you just need to have fun, which infind it much more rewarding to beat a team honorably to a point where they feel like saying gg to you instead of leaving or dcing
7 -
I don't need to, because killer don't brag about how the other plays should be allowed to play.
They never do for long, because what they complain about gets ripped out of the game.
See: Healing, Stealth, Boons
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