http://dbd.game/killswitch
The DBD Community has a "Win at all cost" problem.
This has been something that has been on my mind for a while but has come up again with the 9.2.0 PTB. I already spoke my mind about what I think about the new content and the changes being made but if you didn't read that, here's the TLDR, I think the anti-tunnel and anti-slug systems are a good thing in spirit, they were just way too harsh and rather ham-fisted, punishing unhealthy playstyles is a good thing, but punishing gameplay most of the community can agree is perfectly fine isn't.
So with the outcry being enough that the anti-tunnel and anti-slug won't be coming to live, I noticed that a lot of people seem to, at least in my opinion, misinterpret the intent behind them, that being that the devs want to punish the Killer for trying to win.
Let me make my thoughts on that line of thinking clear. I've been playing for almost 3k hours, most of that time is on Killer, and I do not think any Killer regardless of their strength specifically needs to tunnel someone out at the start of the game in order to win, especially not a S tier killer like Nurse or Blight. Hooks and Kills are not the only way a Killer can generate pressure and slow down Survivors, simply downing somebody is already knocking someone out of the game until they can be picked up, keeping them busy with things like Infection systems on some killers as well forces people off of generators, hell simply chasing them generates pressure because that's one less person doing the objective, if you are playing Blight with Quad Slowdown and both Speed Addons and think you need to kill someone at 5 gens to stand a chance at winning then you are not nearly as good or as knowledgeable at Killer as you think you are. If a Survivor is playing aggressively and very clearly wants to be chased then by all means go for them, but you don't need to kill someone as soon as possible in order to win.
As far as I am concerned, regardless of its strength, Tunnelling is one of the unhealthiest playstyles a Killer can engage in. Lets say a Killer is Tunnelling with the express intention of winning, they're probably stressed because they're not able to kill the survivor fast enough, the person being chased isn't having fun because the Killer is on their ass the entire match, aren't getting any Bloodpoints, and if they aren't good in chase then they'll be back sitting in queues in under 5 minutes, and the other 3 survivors aren't having fun because their only real gameplay option is doing gens, which comprises entirely of holding a button for 90 seconds and occasionally pressing Spacebar, that is it. Maybe the Killer and Survivor being chased are having fun if all they care about is chases regardless of how it goes, but that's still only 40% of the people in a match that are enjoying themselves, the other 60% are bored out of their mind. Want to know why most of your SoloQ games end with people not on gens? Because gens are boring and the other Survivors not being chased are probably out looking for literally anything else to do. This is why so many people ask for another objective to be added, Survivor gameplay is incredibly dull and unfun if the Killer is focused solely on one person, and, when the entire point of a video game is to have fun playing it, Tunnelling creates a scenario where 3 of the 5 people in a match at minimum are pretty much unable to actually have fun.
Now, this is the point where people are probably going to tell me that Killers are not responsible for Survivors fun and vice versa. To which I say, what exactly happens when people don't have fun playing a game? They quit, they leave, and if it's a multiplayer game and you have no one to play with, you can't play. So no, both sides are responsible for each other's fun, because if they aren't then there won't be a other side to play against. You can't engage in a playstyle that all but ensures no one in the match has fun, say "I don't care about your fun" and then complain when queues take 5 minutes or longer, you can't have your cake and eat it too. The best way to shorten queues is to make both roles less miserable and more fun to play, and the easiest way to do that is to punish playstyles that aren't fun, this was the intention behind the anti go-next system, the anti-afk system to prevent extreme hiding, and the anti-tunnel and anti-slug systems.
This is where I loop back to the title, the reason these strategies and the mentally of "Up yours I do what I want" is so prevalent is because the community at large has a "Win at all costs" mindset, any strategy besides cheating is perfectly acceptable if it means you win the game. This mindset, to me, is extremely baffling for a simple reason, Dead By Daylight doesn't encourage or reward winning.
Like really think about what you get for "Winning" a match of DBD as Killer and Survivor, both sides get a slightly different message in the post game lobby, some pips for emblems if they are lucky, harder matches in the future because of the MMR system, and Survivors get 7000 or 8500 Survival points, and Killers get 2500 Deviousness points for killing everyone, points in a category that most of the roster maxes out halfway into the match anyway so realistically Killer gets nothing for winning. The long and short of it is, at least from my perspective, you get absolutely nothing for winning, and as for losing? You miss out on the aforementioned Bloodpoints and…that's about it, you don't lose pips for your Rank, and because the SBMM system is a complete joke that should have never been implemented your matches will be easier because you lose MMR. There is no true reward for victory beyond progressing Rift challenges and your own personal enjoyment, and that's where the issue then comes, if winning a match of DBD served a actual purpose and you got real, tangible rewards for doing so, then I'd see the argument for Tunnelling, it'd be stupid and bad for the reasons listed above, but I could see it. As it stands right now though, the argument of "I should be allowed to to kill someone at 5 gens and ignore everyone else because it's the most efficient way to win and winning feels good" is a argument I find to be flawed, after all, this same logic applies to Genrushing as well doesn't it? After all, doing gens quickly is the most efficient way to win, But Killer mains hate that, they think Survivors shouldn't be allowed to do gens too quickly because it isn't fun. See how quickly that argument can be flipped on its head? If Tunnelling is fine, Genrushing is fine, after all, victory's all that matters, right?
Sarcasm aside, how what can we as a community to do to make Tunnelling, and by extension other unfun strategies, less of an issue? Simple really, take a load off and relax. Killers don't have to tunnel, Survivors don't have to rush generators, both sides can take in a match to goof off, chase each other, maybe get some funny clips. Matches don't need to end in 5 minutes nor do does someone have to be taken out in 2 minutes, this is a casual game with a lot of RNG and balancing so comically bad its almost intentional. Nobody has to play like this is a competitive tournament with money on the line.
Let me be clear here, I am not saying “Don’t play to win” I am saying “Don’t let your desire to win make the game less fun for the other side”, if you want to try and win then go on ahead, just remember that you’re not playing against bots, you’re playing with real people with feelings too, and besides, close matches that are down to the wire are more fun anyway.
Am I yelling into the void trying to offer a solution to a problem that has become ingrained into the game's culture? Probably, am I still going to hope that we can find a elegant solution to problems that will continue to impact the game's long time health? God I hope so
G'night
Comments
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Sarcasm aside, how what can we as a community to do to make Tunnelling, and by extension other unfun strategies, less of a issue? Simple really, take a load off and relax. Killers don't have to tunnel, Survivors don't have to rush generators, both sides can take in a match to goof off, chase each other, maybe get some funny clips. Matches don't need to end in 5 minutes nor do does someone have to be taken out in 2 minutes, this is a casual game with a lot of RNG and balancing so comically bad its almost intentional. Nobody has to play like this is a competitive tournament with money on the line.
maybe it’s just my mentality, but peak DBD is when both sides play for the W.
Tunneling’s a legit fun part of that. First chase? I’ve got the whole map and every resource to work with — that’s real interaction. After the tunnel’s done, the next person in line has way less to play around; map’s trimmed, pallets gone — way spicier, way more pressure. If the killer keeps target-swapping and no real chase happens, it’s mid. its not fun the moment the Kiler only tries to get people at dead zone gens with constant target switching.
I like the tunnel, I like breaking a hard tunnel, I like clean body blocks and team play. ‘Let’s not try’ matches are gray and boring.
Love when both sides sweat for the win.
but.. i dk, I’m into 1v1s too. Kinda the same as a tunnel — you just try to hold it forever and burn every resource on the map.
I don’t mind when both sides play for the win. Anything else is boring,.. no? :/
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Idk, the most interesting matches I have watched are comp matches were the pmayers are actually good and trying to win. Seeing people stumble and just "have fun" is boring af.
Also, while there is no progression for winning, you vastly underestimate the fact that most people like to win when they play any game, no one likes to be a loser and thats good.
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If your not going to play to win then why bother loading into any game that has competition. Go play tetris or super mario where no one will bother to try to win against you so you can have "fun" your way.
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This is the mentality I mean, competition implies there’s stakes, real and tangible rewards for winning as well as losses for losing, what exactly do you gain from winning or lose from losing a match of DBD? A couple of pips? Some blood points? Invisible points on a MMR system that might as well not exist? You get nothing, you lose nothing, the only “reward” is personal fulfilment, and you can get that without making the match unfun for everybody else
I’m not saying don’t play to win, I’m saying don’t play like a ######### when playing like a ######### doesn’t even get you anything23 -
While I do appreciate your viewpoint and certainly see where you’re coming from, I do feel like you’re missing out on the bigger picture a bit
As I said, if the Killer and the Survivor are having fun tunnelling/getting tunnelled, that still leaves the 3 other survivors who aren’t getting to have that same fun, and the issue also comes that if the Killer tunnels someone to death and that person uses up most of the map’s resources, well, what do the other 3 have to work with? The match is essentially already over before anyone else gets to really play if the Tunnelled survivor dies before enough gens are done, the other 3 have nothing to work with and are basically stuck in a dead game while the killer picks them off
I do agree that the game is fun when both sides are actually trying, but I do feel like that needs to come with the asterisk of “Also playing fairly”, meaning that they’re all playing in a way where everyone has a chance to show off their skills rather then the game ending almost instantly, those kinds of games are great, but the mentality of “I must win no matter what and to hell what the other side thinks” is one I really wish the community would let go ofWinning is great, it should not come at the cost of making matches worse
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I would feel much less pressure to kill every survivor every match if they simply allowed me the option to abandon after the gates are open. If I have a chance to secure a kill I can take it, if the survivors are waiting at the gate to BM me after I got beat or even worse played “nicely” I can leave.
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the 3 other survivors who aren’t getting to have that same fun
Yup—on the games where I tunnel or get tunneled, it usually goes faster. The other three survivors still get interaction outside the tunnel. The days where one survivor holds the killer for 5 gens are gone. Either the tunneled player dies earlier, or the team actually gets to play: cover, smart bodyblocks, teamplay to buy them air to reach the next tile. Depending on the tunneled player’s skill, both paths can make sense. Good teamplay can make a hard tunnel hard. Covering a strong, stable chaser is often worth the minute you’re not on a gen.
I’m OG—I’ve seen every era. The bigger problem to me isn’t “tunnel bad,” it’s the map reworks being overcooked. Lots of maps still have strong main structures, but the filler tiles in between are gone, so the survivor can’t chain to the next resource. RNG can be nasty. Add scuffed hits you sometimes eat as survivor (netcode/ping), and you’ve got maybe one or two mistakes before you’re on the floor (pray for perks). Then there’s all the anti-chase killers/perks where the most efficient counter is early Shift + early calls.
So it’s not always “hard tunnel” that feels awful—sometimes even good survivors just don’t find resources to fight back because the tile economy or RNG isn’t there. Some reworks went too far. Then pile high ping on top.
That’s what makes tunnel moments feel worse than the tunnel itself. only my POV: We don’t need to roll back to the old days, but cranking gen pressure and trimming tiles so chases must be ultra short was a weird call. What’s the fun part of DBD? The chase. Not M1 on a gen. And on killer side, “no time, drop chase early, maybe catch someone at a gen in a dead zone” is way more frustrating to me than tunneling. Absolute dead zones at match start shouldn’t exist.
maps and stuff are hard to change, even for survivor side. habits are burned in on both sides. and y, survivors push gens like there’s no tomororw, cuz that’s often the only thing that keeps them alive in dbd 2025. pressure vs tempo, same old dance.
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You can say the same for both sides. I always see survivors tbag in ext gates, especially when killer did poorly in the match.
Honestly while I don't like tunnel/camp/slug, I don't blame anyone doing it.
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Hard disagree. I used to run chest gremlin builds years ago, and some of my most memorable games I've had were games where I got value from multiple items I found in chests in the same game. As killer i had plenty of games where I just didn't worry about hooks or kills and let survivors get as much time doing locker blinds as possible (back when that was a thing)
The game is at its best when you feel you have the liberty to be goofy, to enjoy all the mechanics the game has to offer. Current DBD feels like you have to be hypersweating the objective and fun is only something you're allowed to have if your opponent is weak enough to allow you to have fun in between rushing objectives
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Ye, legit call. Everyone should be able to play how they want. And I get that it sucks if you want a different vibe and you get me in your lobby — it’s basically a free loss if the killer just sweats. I don’t want those players in my lobby either, killer or survivor.
What tilts me is BHVR already trying to reshape KYF so “comp” folks can keep doing comp and still come in? Sorry, but that makes me feel pushed out — forced into Discord LFG with strangers, in some new “mode” that’s cut off from normal progression. Why? Just because I like playing efficient for the win?
and ouuwh… yes, i do tunnel at five gens up if it really lines up.
And it’s not only on one side. People here love to paint me as the evil killermain, but I do it on survivor too — I try to deny the killer’s pressure as much as possible. I dont give my teammates for free. and i enjoy being tunneled.
and I play both sides super active—and honestly I’d probably be more of a surv tbh if I consistently got halfway decent teammates, plus fair hits and better ping. still play survivor very actively.
so uhm.. “goof a bit” is fun—safe safe.
i understand you 100%, but balancing by removing killer’s legit reaction tools while pushing custom-game limiters and calling it “comp” (aka “normal” to me) is upside down.
many ppl feel this already; fresh players will too when the “protections” turn into boredom.
idk :/
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The question is: what should a PvP game balance around? The folks who want to do chest-stuff and goof around? Just-for-fun meme plays? That’s like going into Hunt: Showdown with mid/low ammo and sawn-offs while everyone else runs long-ammo meta. If you meme in PvP, you usually die the moment the other side brings more. PvP is an arms race on both sides. You don’t balance around memes.
DBD already has plenty of outlets for fun/meme time—events, rotating modes every few weeks, etc. Balance should aim for competitive integrity and healthy baseline gameplay, not “let me goof off and still win.” It’s all super tricky, sure, but building around memes just makes the core worse.
.. idk (again) :/
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The issue is the influx of hyper-competitive players. One thing matter and one thing only…ego. They NEED that dopamine hit to hit. the validation of dominating another human. The "winning isnt everything"….they skipped that day in pre-school. Only way to make this community focused on mutual exchanges of enjoyment and respect is to remove any aspect of "tournament e-sports" kids. Playing to win is fine, everyone does that. But his community takes it way to far and acts like their next meal depends on a 4k or making the killer DC. Comp is the death of casual enjoyment and laughter and I will die on that hill.
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Hard agree.
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Cme on. Don’t moralize “playing to win.” People follow incentives, not sermons. Goofy matches work when all five opt in—pubs don’t guarantee that. If tunneling/pressure is the safest line, players will take it; fix systems, not people. Give us lanes for both styles: a real ranked vs. casual split. Improve alternatives to tunnel (fewer dead zones, some filler tiles back, tiny ability-safe unhook window, better SoloQ info). Balance with richer data than killrate—chase length, tile chainability,
It isn’t courteous to assume “dominance needs,” low motives, or bad upbringing just because someone plays to win. Critique behaviors and systems, not people. In PvP, optimization is normal; if pressure tools dominate, that’s a design/incentive issue. Some of us simply enjoy hard-fought matches where both sides give everything—that isn’t “dominance,” it’s a preference. And it’s just as rude to go personal against competitive players as it would be to bash folks who want to goof and play casual. Keep it to design and sportsmanship: fix maps/tile economy/solo info or offer a ranked vs casual split—don’t moralize the players.
I’m still shocked and a bit sad at how little hesitation there is to go personal in this community — just because some of us play to win and optimize.
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This problem is just not a killer or survivor problem its a problem caused by both sides.
All alive survivors wait their ass off at the exit gates to teabag/bm the killer? This leads to tilting the killer and the killer will hard tunnel for wins the next game. This leads to tilting the survivors so the moment they actually can escape the next match they also have to show their ego off to teabag at the exit gates.
Its an endless cycle of toxicity that stresses both sides and make both sides less fun.
So tunneling should be fixed (which i mostly agree with the ptb patch) and also not leaving the match/ teabagging at the exit gates should also not be a thing. Like let the killer surrender when the exit gates are open.
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"Am I yelling into the void trying to offer a solution to a problem that has become ingrained into the game's culture? Probably"
You definitely are, unfortunately. I said the other day that this is all ultimately a monster of BHVRs own making. And it started with their poor introduction to the game for newcomers and reliance on content creators to pick up the slack. Here's the pipeline:
New player joins. The basic tutorial system sees them turn to the online community for help. The community refers them to popular content creators. They consume said content, including the ever popular winstreaks, proudly brought to you by tunnelling. Winstreaks have even evolved to the point of creators severely handicapping themselves in their games (aka "challenges"), but it's okay, because tunnelling is how you win anyway.
It's been like this since I started playing almost 5 years ago.
You can't just let others steer your game in one direction for years, then try and take control of the wheel lol
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That's where I always struggle to understand things.
Camping/tunneling/slugging is a gameplay issue. It actively changes how someone is able to be in the trial, to the point that they can be flagging by the anti-go next system and receive a penalty for it (despite how rare that seems to be). Bagging at the gates is a psychological thing. The trial is already over. I'm not against the Killer being able to Abandon in that scenario, but it only affects one's time, not their gameplay.
Now I'm not saying you're doing this, but the two do seem to be conflated a lot and it makes me wonder how you can ever make the game better without harming Killers' ego (not ego as in "big ego" but as in their self-esteem).
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I also make sometimes fun of tryhards, but isnt that a bit harsh?
Yh there are some players who take it too far. They get tilted if they lose, are toxic in endgame chat, etc. But someone who just plays efficiently has not some defects from his childhood.
Its a PvP-game. Its normal to play for the win, if someone just moves his pieces randomly in chess it would be weird. If you just want to do goofy things there are plenty of great games you can enjoy.
Just to be clear:
Wrong matchmaking is a problem. A good chess player tryharding against beginners is also silly.
It would be better if the most efficient method (tunneling) would be not so awful for the opponents.
Chess was my first example. Dont compare me to a certain Chess-Skully bc of that. Winning like that is not healthy.
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I dont think that stronger tiles would be better. Yh maps need fine-tuning, but with better tiles the difference increases.
The difference of chase time between good and bad looper.
And the difference of chase time between low and high-tier-killer.
And yh of course i should be getting a better chase time as a weaker player. But every second should be hard fought (good play or using up a limited strong ressource).
Even now i have moments where i know i can autopilot for the next 30secs in chase and there is no risk.
My problem with tunneling are the teammates. Not doing gens or not lasting even with bodyblocks. Right now its gotten better. Always solo brought me to a 45% escape rate, but last month it suddenly was on 72%.
Its so much better, bc nothing is more frustrating than to loop well, the killer switches, gets a fast down and ignores you the rest of the game.
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I dont appreciate people who are unwilling to pull back when it's clear that either the matchmaking was bad or your opponents weren't taking it seriously. What's the point of your 4k if the people you went up against were playing lutes or clearly didn't have the slightest idea what they were doing? Like cool inflated stats. Hope you enjoyed stomping the playground. If I end up in lobbies like that, I chill, otherwise I feel gross afterwards. But some people don't seem to. It's not a war. Don't treat it like one.
But no particular person was accused of anything here. It's a generalization about consistent behaviors in this game.
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Please show us a single killer player who has ever seriously demanded a 70-80% kill rate as the average.
Do you still not understand that some killers will always have an above-average kill rate? You keep quoting 70 and 80% kill rates like it’s “normal”. The average is 60%. Remember the bell curve?
See the part way to the right? This is where the 70-80% kill rates are. A vast majority of the killer population is not there. Half of the killer players are below the 60% average.
I don’t expect this will ever change your opinion, so I’m glad that people who actually understand this are the ones making balance decisions.
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Those things aren’t comparable. You’re comparing killer strategies that can greatly help win a game, to survivors doing something that rarely affects if the survivors win a game.
Your comparisons should be survivor strategies that can help win games, but are frustrating for killers. Things like survivors excessively hiding, or survivors preventing the killer from hooking a survivor.
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Please show us a single killer player who has ever seriously demanded a 70-80% kill rate as the average.
Every killer that does a 1000 4K win streak.
Or every killer that loses with Trapper and says, "I'm going to play Nurse as revenge!" News flash: They're not doing so because her kill rate is LOW.
That's the problem. Y'all claim those are "outliers" while saving them in your pocket for when YOU need them. The nice smooth bell curve only works if the pick rates are the same. If you can just DECIDE when you "deserve" a 4K (as opposed to letting skill and circumstance dictate that, like in a normal game) then you are "seriously demanding a 70-80% kill rate". Maybe not as an "average" but certainly not in a "random, bell curve" way AT ALL.
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I backed out to the top level and looked at the posts. Here's a Dracula main (with one of the highest kill rates in the game) asking for BUFFS. ON TOP OF WHAT'S ALREADY COMING TO LIVE
They're not asking for a 70-80% average, THEY WANT MORE!
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I do not see what you are talking about.
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The streamer that is constantly held up as the pillar of the community for positivity is constantly doing streaks where he massively handicaps himself, and then goes completely ballistic and starts ranting about how unfair the game is when his win rate with handicaps on killers he only plays once or twice a week is 'only' around 90% instead of the 98% he thinks it should be.
This is not normal, respectful, nor healthy. And yet, it's normalized. Nearly every killer player does this kind of styling and mockery of the other side because the game is indeed that easy for them. I'm all for silly builds and playing for fun, but the tradeoff is to expect to lose slightly more. He's still winning the virtually all of his games anyway, even with the handicaps. But that's not enough, and almost every loss is met as a grave injustice.
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”Every killer that does a 1000 4K win streak”
So that’s like what, 3 people ever out of the millions who play this game? Clearly a huge balance problem.
-4 -
I dont mind loosing if survivors or my opponent (killer to) play well but what I hate is many players being toxic for no reason and they gg ez or babby something is big motivation for me to win and say gg gl next but it can be frustrating loosing many matches in row and getting insults left and right or loosing because of cheater or bug can be annoying as well.
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I get that with nurse ot other stronger killer if they loose many matches in a row and get insults on to of that but that every killer main doing 1000 4k streaks is something I wonder how you get that maybe you should stop watching only blight and nurse mains like superalf and look at some bubba mains or other weaker killers.
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So another us vs them post, killers arent the only ones that are the cause of the problem this is not some disney fary tail where one side is 100% pure evil and other one is victim with having every time good intentions.
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Bagging at the gates is a psychological thing. The trial is already over. I'm not against the Killer being able to Abandon in that scenario, but it only affects one's time, not their gameplay.
Isn't the player's time important? Why should they spend their time getting BMed in game when they can just go next?
I've seen many complaints about t-bagging at the gates, specifically, and the answers were always either "suck it up" or "if you don't like it, try not losing". Any suggestions to let Killers opt out were brushed off. So, Killer players follow the latter piece of advice, only to hear "No, you're actually winning the wrong way, shame on you" — which prompts them to respond aggressively and be extremely defensive.
What I mean by that is that players need an incentive to play differently or not to go for the win every game. There is no point in simply appealing to them and asking them to play nice when in-game environment and priorities encourage doing otherwise—and both sides come up with reasons why they shouldn't play nice, based on their own experiences.
For example, a solid part of this incentive is rooted in providing them with options not to interact with sore winners. If a Killer can abandon a trial after all 4 gens pop and go back straight to their lobby, they no longer think about annoying opponents—they are out of sight and out of mind. Instead, they can go to the next game immediately. They will also feel more at ease during the next games—because they will always have this option, so they won't have to deal with toxic moments if they want to and thus, these moments won't linger on their mind, souring their mood and affecting their playstyle. Without this pressure ("win or get mocked"), much more players will be so obsessed with winning.
Another part of encouraging other playstyles would be introducing other rewards or objectives during the game. For instance, integrating tome challenges into the game automatically, so players could unlock charms and lore pieces (potentially related to the character they play at the moment) — in other words, assigning something that players can progress regardless of win or loss.
The community isn't going to fix itself, it can only be limited and incentivized to play differently by the game itself.
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That was my point. Being able to Abandon respects their time and also spares any psychological wear they might feel. But comparing it to camping/tunneling/slugging is inappropriate. The former is rooted in social dynamics, while the latter is rooted in gameplay itself.
I'm all for improving the challenge system. The current one we have is much better than the old one in my opinion, but it could still do more.
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"Rarely"
Yes definitely it's "RARE"
-1 -
The problem with playing "optimally" in DBD is that the game is too imbalanced and janky to account for it. Tne maps and killers are wildly imbalanced relative to each other, the game is buggy and MMR is barely functional at any level.
If you're a killer player, and you are determined to win at all costs, and to optimize your set up and approach to accomplish that end, it kind of breaks the game. You almost have to be a potato to not 4K the vast majority of the time playing as a fully kitted out, hard tunneling Blight/Ghoul/Nurse/etc.
It's just a broken way to play, and says very little about the killer player's skill, while negating the survivor's skill. Much like a seal team 6 SWF, the game's mechanics simply weren't set up to account for it.
IMO, DBD is an absurd game to try to play optimally, because it's so imbalanced in just about every facet.
If you're playing and S or high-A tier killer and just hard tunneling the first survivor you find out, you're not expressing skill, you're exploiting shoddy game design. Sure, you might lose some games against really good teams, but you're not going to be challenged like 90% of the time.
I mean if a a killer wants to conflate winning like that with high skill play, that's their prerogative, but it's self-delusion. Not only that, but it will keep them from actually getting better. It's killer training wheels. I wouldn't at all say that the majority of killer players who were having tantrums about the proposed patch were just terrified of being exposed, but a whole lot were.
Like winning 90% of their games was their very identity. The same thing as a surv player who almost exclusively plays in SWF and is used to escaping but and gets absolutely rinsed when dipping a toe in solo queue.
Beyond that inflammatory take, I just don't get the appeal of minimizing the risk of losing to almost nothing. DBD is pretty clearly a game that was conceived as experience rather then outcome based game, but even so winning when I'm almost certain I'm going to win is just…boring. Like what does it prove to win from a position of massive advantage?
I'm as competitive as anyone in the right setting. DBD is not a great setting for competitive play (which is why "comp" DBD is so regulated and has to have all sorts of rules modifiers to even approximate a typical comp game). Public servers are just imbalanced chaos.
Being tunneled out by a Blight doesn't make me feel like I was outplayed in any meaningful way, the same way getting 0K or 1K against a coordinated comms SWF when I'm playing as Sadako doesn't really feel like a loss. It just feels like my time was wasted, and I genuinely wonder what they got of it.
I suspect a lot of these people aren't good enough to hack it at higher levels at properly balanced PvP games, and sweat at DBD to delude themselves.
What DBD can be, and what it should be (imo) is a fun experience. To me, trying to make it a serious test of "skill" is just lame. But to each their own, I guess.
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"Nearly every killer player does this kind of styling and mockery of the other side because the game is indeed that easy for them"
WOW. Talk about a massive generalization,.
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It's funny because for all the flack old DBD got and how the game is now apparently "the most balanced it's ever been", we sure seemed to have a lot more fun pre-MMR. The motions to make the game more competitive have only hurt it.
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Btw this whole thread is dumb.
It is only your opinion what is fun, not everyone will agree with you on what is fun. And I have found the people who want to play for fun are the same ones that can not win consistently when actually trying against skilled players in any game of any genre.
This reminds me of giving out participation trophies in school sports like #########?
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it's a weird dichotomy of online gaming; people have to google meta and strictly adhere to it or you are trolling, but also have zero interest or effort put into self reflection or improvement. when you kill these people its always bs, or cheats, etc. I see them in every game i play.
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I feel like at this point you are missing the point on purpose
Dead By Daylight is not, has never been, and in all likelihood will never be a competition. There is no participation trophy because there isn't even a trophy to begin with, there is zero reason to engage in a strategy most people agree isn't fun or fair when playing in a way that lets everyone enjoy the match accomplishes the same thing, if your attitude is "The strategy most of the community says isn't fun is fine because it's the most efficient way to win and anyone who disagrees or thinks that's not fun needs to just git gud" in a game where you don't even get something as small as a in-game stat tracker, you are the problem, not the other players.
Following your analogy, your opinion is the equivalent of that one kid who tries extremely hard in a team sport and gets really mad at his team, and even the other team, for not trying as hard as he is, even though the entire point of the game they're playing is to just have fun and enjoy being outside, yeah sure that one kid is probably doing well, but nobody else cares and nobody is impressed, if anything they'd probably get scolded afterwards by their parents for being a sore winner and bringing down the mood of everybody else that's there.
Again, playing to win is fine, you can also win without being that guy, and when there's no reward incentive for winning, playing like that guy serves no purpose, so don't be that guy
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I kinda hafta agree with this sentiment here, like there are times when a survivor puts me on tilt, but man there are times when I put real ######### energy into a chase at my best and a survivor responds to that and I love the chase. What kills it for me most of the time is that games end so ######### fast regardless of the result, like 90% of the complaints about dead by daylight would disappear if the games were designed to last longer by default so people could give their best when the time is right. Like I play pig with a hex totem kinda stalling build where I have 3 dud hexes and one dangerous hex like devour hope or ruin and then I use the beartraps to force players into side objectives, then I just spend the whole game chasing. even when devour gets cleansed I get the time I need to put out my best because instead of slowdown or block which can be mitigated with more time commitment, players just have to leave to solve a problem so I get slowdown and aura read the second they finally cleanse a hex. My point with the digression is that trying your hardest to win isn't really the problem, the problem is when you go nuclear on the opposition and the game can't handle that so it breaks down and ends super fast. We are not given the resources to enjoy our toys most of the time so it all boils down to comp strats. In fact hex pig is a pretty comp heavy strat but It's what I like and the fact it's the only build I can really remember says a lot about how hard it is to find something good to work with out here.
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I didnt even bring up anything specific tied to a strategy, you did. I just said fun is subjective.
Post edited by Rizzo on-5 -
Not sure why I'm being brought into this but I can safely say you didn't read my post at all. I have mentioned wolf form was welcomed to get nerfed and the Hellfire changes should get reverted. Most of my complaints were to the add-ons and how some useless add-ons should get changed (like sunglasses) while the ones that are getting unnecessarily nerfed shouldn't go through.
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i agree to some degree that people play to win a bit too much but in my experience and the experience voiced by countless people on various platforms, the reason why people play to win so hard is because of the consequences of the loss. losing a game and having people BM you every time and spout toxic comments and gloating isnt fun. winning a match lessens this effect and while people can still say and do toxic things atleast the player that wins can walk away smiling knowing "atleast i won"
This is a result of the community as a whole. when i first started playing the game many years ago people were not that bad and for me the game wasnt that serious. But as the years have gone by the level of toxicity has increased so now if i want to avoid a mental battering by the opposition i play to win at all cost. They might say some horrible things and BM me in the match but when i win im the one smiling :)
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i didn't feel like reading the wall of text but tunneling and slugging are very necessary for the game at least in the high ranks where they rush gens and it's necessary to create pressure these changes are extremely harmful to the game since they will force the meta to be only top tiers and shouldn't ever be implemented but eventually will
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