http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why are people crashing out on these forums about the changes being delayed?
There are literally hundreds of videos and thousands of posts demonstrating, with concrete evidence, why the current iteration was not good.
This wall of evidence was so thick that BHVR made a statement a couple of days into the PTB indicating as much.
Objectively, it should not be going live until these issues which, again, have hundreds of captured examples, are addressed.
The foot stomping and whining from some users is simply wild, particularly when no effort is made to refute the very real evidence that exists.
The system is going to be tweaked and brought back in a better form that presumably addresses its current issues - there is no need to be upset or descend into histrionics.
Comments
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Likely whiny survivor only mains that just want to put the killers on a tight leash and force them to play by the survivor rule book regardless how damaging it would've been for the game.
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People are worried because, historically, when things have been pulled back, they usually get butchered and remain ineffectual.
Recent memory shows Fog Vials, for example.
More historically? Anti-Slug was pulled back once to be reworked and then got scrapped for multiple years.
Likewise, AFC sounded really good, but it didn't really end up changing a whole lot in terms of frustrating gameplay. If it was bugged and didn't let you unhook yourself, I doubt anyone would even notice.
I think there is a justified worry that BHVR is going to turn the system into something it shouldn't be, instead of addressing (as you said) the issues with the system, which are completely fixable.
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Well firstly you have to consider that a lot of people did not get to test these changes for themselves, and are unlikely to believe the opinion of others on what is kind of a subjective experience—because some people, according to posts and such, did in fact enjoy the changes.
Second of all, because the changes were incredibly long awaited promised relief for problems that have been frustrating a lot of players for a very long time. It's like…you're incredibly hungry, starving, and someone says 'at this time, you can have your favourite food'. And then that time arrives and they tell you, "well actually you can't have it yet. But at some undetermined point in the future you can!"
You're still pretty goddamn hungry, likely hangry, and now incredibly frustrated because you had something you wanted dangled in front of you and then snatched away at the last possible moment.
That's why people are crashing out. Because the issues that those changes were supposed to resolve—tunnelling and slugging—have been around for such a long time, and are so frustrating and game ruining for a lot of players, that when a solution was promised and then snatched away/delayed, it's really upsetting.
This is not to say I think that the changes should have gone live in their current state, or that BHVR was inherently wrong for making this decision. But when what was supposed to be a huge quality of life boon for survivor players got delayed indefinitely, especially very soon after some killers received questionable buffs (turbo Clown) and the first new survivor item in years was nerfed into oblivion within days of release, understandably, it has created some resentment and ill will towards the whole thing.
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I second this!
BHVR does have a history of shelving these kinds of things for years at a time, leaving players to suffer and flounder, and then when they do finally come out with the proposed 'fix', it's…largely ineffective at best, at worst it actively makes the problem worse.
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I was surprised the clown changes went through.
I made a bunch of posts about it stating it would just flip the script on the bottles and, what a surprise, it did.
The new clown changes are also not sufficient but I don't want to go off topic.
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No, the Clown changes aren't the point, but they do provide context to mounting frustrations from survivor mains that have reached a boiling point with the delayed anti-tunnel and anti-slug. Because there's only so many times you can be tunnelled out by a Clown moving at 100k/h, or left to bleed out on the ground while humped by a killer, or have the shiny new item promised made largely useless almost immediately, before you get a little testy. Especially when BHVR kept telling us "just wait, anti-tunnel and anti-slugging are coming real soon!"
And then they're delayed.
Hence the vented frustrations all over the forums.
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You are absolutely right.
I probably play survivor 80% of the time while in the game, and I can say that all of this is true.
I have made some posts highlighting the positives of the anti-slug and anti-tunnel changes, and also proposed changes to what could be made better and less punishing for the killers, but that always seems to get downvoted into oblivion.The current state of tunneling and slugging is not healthy at all for the game, and it was something that the PTB tried to rectify.
My own experience with playtesting the PTB was generally very positive, on both sides, since everything for once felt properly balanced.15 -
So 2027? If we are lucky? Your well documented issues were killer mains doom posting to to get there way. Did you not see the state of the forums before the details even went live? Just the announcement had people all over demanding it be cancelled you think these people had unbiased discussions when the details got released? You think streamers who have their lively hoods at stake to be good and strong killers didn't have motivation to Poopoo this?
Like it or not I can say one positive thing about players that enjoy the role of killer they sure as hell know how to gate keep and protect their investment the survivor side of the game just log in and play for the most part it's why you see such a "game is survivor sided" echo chamber no matter what forums you go to even from people with 90% + kill rates. They keep their positions strong by fighting for it tooth and nail to the detriment of the survivor side every time which is why it takes weeks many times less time to fix a bug or over tuned issue with survivors but months or years for killers
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What could also be said, is that we also saw a complete community meltdown and doomposting on reddit and other social media, when this system was presented, which completely overshadowed the actually critcism and mad it look like that Behaviours statement was about listenting and catering to "whiny killer mains".
This compared what everything else was already said (fog vials beeing nerfed, slugging and tunneling being a long time issues, anti go-next issues, anti-facecamp bearly doing something against proxycamping, kaneki release and clown changes). It just adds and gives a very pessimistic taste overall.
I'm uncertain and not positive, when I think about where the system might go just based on how the "discussion" felt.16 -
I believe the well documented issues were actual videos from the PTB, but as the title suggests, you're crashing out.
Any commentary on the video evidence supplied by hundreds?
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here is the honest truth.
A lot of reasonable players were certain it wouldn’t go through without changes. Yes it was harsh but tweaking COULD HAVE been done.When it comes to survivor issues it’s dealt with swiftly and nerfed immediately. When it comes to killer maybe they will do something in the coming month or two. Yes this is a hardened truth and it should be swallowed.
As mentioned before BHVR likes to shelve things for years.
Thing is when it is all said and done you need 4 survivors to 1 killer. There is already a killer que issue and no one wants to play survivor especially in soloq. They are ending up with more squads than solo players and this is what they balance on. You can’t generate new revenue if it is impossible for new players.
When FNAF came out they surpassed their 122,000 player count from years ago. Two months later slashed in half. The problem BHVR ignores is not getting new players but keeping them engaged. Not everyone likes to play one side all the time but when you make it so both sides are unplayable or unenjoyable at certain points they need to make drastic changes.
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I love it. Kinda cute actually. Let's negate what someone says by claiming they are "some sort of name" brilliant really.
I've read the threads and see the videos all the issues people had could have been tweaked to solve. Behavior even them selves mentioned that these numbers would be altered to find a good balance. Somthing they didn't even get a chance to do because of the outcry and doom posting 3 days is how long it lasted.
People just want consistency why do they need to be patient and understanding for balance changes on ghoul and clown? But fog files got a week. Where was the posts from behavior telling the player base that they need to learn to adapt to changes on this one?
It's easy to wrap up and put a bow one some one like "lol they are crashing out" when you wish to dismiss their points and views. But I'm sure eventually one of your streamers will give you this insight (hopefully).
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Some of us have been here many times before and seen this song and dance with BHVR. I have zero faith they are going to do anything meaningful considering their past record, if they address it at all.
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The thing is I don't get why they delayed these new features when they only needed tweaks to the numbers in the PTB. At least they should've pushed out the new feature of the hidden hook states, which is the least controversial feature, while they tweak the rest of them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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People don't want to tweak the numbers they don't want the system that will take anything away. Ironically I saw a few joke comments that this whole PTB would end with none of the changes going through except all the basekit killer buffs. And not even 24 hours after the announcement of it getting axed threads were up asking for the basekit buffs to stay to help killers.
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When they say "we'll do it later," that has always meant years, or never. The Skull Merchant fixes are "coming later". Twins fixes are "coming later". Bug fixes are "coming later." Getting rid of cheaters is "coming later." This is like the fourth time they've promised to crack down on parts of the game that make people miserable only to do nothing. All they've done so far is add a couple quit buttons for the most egregious situations, but I suspect that's actually only exacerbating problems, because it shuffles you back into the queue faster only to have it happen again. And it will happen more now because it's normalized as totally fine to do BECAUSE there's a way out. So solo survivors are being shuffled out of a miserable situation, only to expect more misery. It's getting survivors back into the queue sooner, but the survivor queues are getting worse. That is extremely bad.
If win rates on either side need to drop by 10-20% in order to hamstring all the ways that toxic ######### use to grief new or completely outmatched players (since the nonfunctional MMR throws everybody to the grist of jackasses's egos), I am completely on board with that. And I mean that for both sides. Killers hate the BMing at gates? Rework endgame so that only one survivor can escape per exit and bump the gate spawns up to 3. That would also help mitigate unwinnable gate situations for survivors and make endgame far more chaotic and interesting. M1 killers struggling? Then give some buff for M1ing a healthy survivor. Non-mobility killers? Open a portal next to a hook that teleports to 32m of a specified gen. Tack on a short power disabling to prevent Blight/Kaneki/Nurse/Spirit from running amok an you've also done a major blow to camping.
I have zero hope any more that the situation is going to improve. Why should I? They declared Operation Health, and it was such a fiasco that they had to declare a second one during the first, and then completely abandoned literally everything in it. And there's still been no bug fixes. No significant balance changes. The perk meta on both sides is pathetically untouched going back years, as are the top and bottom killers. Nothing changes. Ever.
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Great post and really sums up a lot of the frustrations. Ironically Behavior are acting like cowards and have been frozen in fear for Literally years of inaction.
Afraid that their most over crowded side of players will quit if they make a few mistakes.
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The entire patch was flawed, its not a matter of number tweaks theres so many interactions that were completely broken on both sides, stupidly designed restrictions on killers that fundamentally made some of them unplayable, anti-killer mechanics flawed on multiple levels and excessively punished alot of gameplay that wasnt excessive slugging and tunneling and actually promoting survivors to play in stupid ways because they can abuse it. Any killer that wasnt a S or high A tier essentially got gutted hard, when you nuked 90% of the roster its not a good change, period. Survivor defensive mechanics insanely overtuned and heavily abusable beyond belief, all things BHVR should have caught waaay before it went to a PTB.
This patch was just them throwing half-baked, poorly thought out combinations of ideas at a dart board to see what sticks.
It's basic I.T 101, you dont push through a broken and heavily criticised update when it requires revision. It takes more work to update it after the fact than taking the time to get it better from the start where it doesnt severely hamper the game in the meantime. And who knows what will break the game just because survivor want dumb changes forced out to their benefit. It would have been actually dumb beyond all measure to push any of these features right now.
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Don't forget the anti go next and AFK measures that went through, despite having significant issues and yet they are still in the game unfairly penalising players on ocassion. Were they necessary for the health of the game? Yes, but not in isolation. They were meant to be the "stick" part of the equation, but the "carrot" part has now been indefinitely kicked into the long grass. We could see them in the next PTB for more testing or maybe some time after Skull Merchant gets her rework. Who knows. Point is, we'll be stuck playing out dead loss, unrecoverable games for even longer now the changes have been pushed back.
It shouldn't be a mystery to anyone why Survivor players might be a little bit sour about the recent direction of the game.
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The system is going to be tweaked and brought back in a better form
Because there's little precedence for this level of optimism. People are feeling defeated. Fog vials were obliterated in a week. As far as i know, DC penalties for getting tunnelled fast are still a thing. There was finally the idea that something big would happen and it's hard not to feel as though it's being added to the backlog trash heap of unfinished ideas and broken promises.
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From people with very high KRs, no less.
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Notice how there is basically zero substance to this whole post. I played the PTB and when I didn't get matched vs people clearly under or above my MMR (why testing the system in this environment was terrible) using the new system I did great the killer buffs felt good and I was using new Myers and the new killer to boot. No game ending situation happened to me by not tunneling... No killers became obsolete by it besides pig trap and condemn something that could easily be adjusted by "tweaking" I think the 6 hooks was a lot and would love to see if go down to 4-5. Anti slugging didn't negatively effect me during any of my play time either.
I think the issue is killers think they deserve a win every game eventually you will reach the limit of a certain killer and hover around that MMR and that's not a bug or oversight it's a Feature of the system by design
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once you let the cat out of the bag, you have to deal with it; since tunneling and slugging are seen as issues that need addressing, by saying "actually hold on" you are giving your blessing to do these things with impunity...or in other words, it's time to play Civilisation until we get something because now somebody out there needs to get in some last minute easy matches.
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No one's negating anything.
You're simply hand waving away a mountain of evidence by saying 'killer mains.'
It's not a good way to engage or argue a point.
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A big problem with DBD's community is the loudest voices tend to be from people who decided they only care about the enjoyment of their preferred side. Ultimately these people will never be pleased and they will always find something to "crash out" about.
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”As far as you know”? So it’s not happening to you personally, even though you deal with lots of tunneling?
Doesn’t anyone think it’s weird that we don’t have a lot of video proof of this happening? Because if it’s happening enough to be a problem, there should be a lot of video proof, right?
Or it is possible it might be doing this only 1 in 1,000,000 games, and people are trying to massively over exaggerate the problem?
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People in the forum have said it's happened to them. I haven't investigated. I also don't know why they'd lie about a mechanic issue.
Just because there's tunneling in my matches doesn't mean I'm the one getting tunneled. And when it is me, I'm just surviving long enough to not get the penalty. Not everyone will.
And rare or not, it shouldn't be happening at all.
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We plan to keep the fight for fog vials going right? Ain't no way that chapter should be ending here. ;)
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Scott Jund already proved before its not common at all. Something like 2/50 games involved actual tunnelling, iirc, and thats at his high MMR where its far more likely to be needed in the first place. Anyone claiming they are consistently getting tunneled and slugged excessively has massive negativity bias, or is trying to forge a narrative.
We all know survivor constantly claim "tunneling" for every single thing under the sun.
I dont even remember the last time i saw any unjustified of either in my games.
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Are you kidding the only meltdowns i've seen are from killers, thousands of people crying and theatening to leave the game or only play blight/nurse/ghoul after update. Me ? I was just excited to finally get some help because I only play solo I don't like swf
Yes it needed some tweaks of course, but I haven't really seen strong arguments other than "the top 5% bully squad swf can abuse it"… yeah ok cool, what about that p100 blight with 95% winrate should we balance the game around him ?
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We should, but it doesn't look like BHVR has any plans to fix them.
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Every single complaint people had with the system could have been fixed with number tweaks somthing we didn't get. Because...? The loudest people demanded it gone. They created head cannons of terrible scary situations that they assured would happen and ruin the game.
They claimed it would ruin all killers (it doesn't)
They claimed only blight and nurse would be viable after this change (not anymore then they currently are)
They claimed swfs would let people die on hooks to get bonuses (the system doesn't work like that)
They created situations where the evil survivor would FORCE them AGAINST their WILL to kill them off for penalties *sobs and cries from all the killers in the room.
They claimed the buffs would not be good enough (could be tweaked.. of course they never said what would be good enough because they didn't want this change)
The true result of this going live and getting tweaked would mean killers losing a few matches which will adjust their MMR because they have used tools such as slugging and tunneling as get out of jail free cards.
So many threads mention survivor hand holding and second chance perks when at any point a killer and "decide to play seriously" and turn a whole match around.
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Concrete evidence
Wall of evidence
Objectively
Boy, I can tell this is going to be a nuanced and fair-minded take!
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LOL Scott jund didn't prove anything tunneling is extremely common, it's the most popular playstyle right now. The devs gave it a free pass with their tweet when they canceled the update, they're basically saying you can hardtunnel as much as you want right now we don't care, it's not our priority
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Can you show me these "concrete evidence", "wall of evidence" and "hundreds of captured examples"?
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Have people really avoided Twitch/Reddit/YouTube/these very forums during the PTB?
Sincerely asking as it's not very hard to find various instances of issues with the PTB.
Burying your head in the sand and farming updoots doesn't distort reality, I'm afraid.
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A content creator has spoken. The problem was not real. We can all go home now, folks.
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There are issues, but they were fixable issues. That's sort of my argument. Yes, there were obvious flaws and honestly this PTB had way too much stuff in it, but the flaws were workable. The design is good, but the execution needs work.
The reason people are worried is because BHVR didn't try to address those issues, they just listened to the loudest cries (who usually claimed that it would kill the game if anything like it went live) and folded.
Historically, this usually results in stuff being neutered to the point of not really being worth the time. Will it be different this time? Time will tell, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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As I've posted before, they could have used the PTB to tweak numbers/test alternate stuff.
It's a bit weird for them to be running the new killer/map changes with this system, now, as the feedback is going to be obfuscated by the system.
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Do you mean concrete evidence like this?
So here we have, a close fought battle between two evenly matched sides (2K for the Wesker). Was a fun watch and the result was what you might expect when there isn't much between two competitors. Anti-tunnel did trigger very near the end of the trial but the Killer still got a 2K. This is how my games go when I face Survivors that are as good (or as bad) as I am.
A Blight that could have picked up a slug and had two on the hook, but for some reason they didn't? Maybe there's a reason why they didn't pick but I'm not smart enough to figure it out.
A Clown that I thought would go all in on tunnelling (because that's what he's very good at) but… didn't? Also refused to kick a pallet that I would have kicked a hundred years ago because me see pallet, me kick pallet. Ending was quite exciting with the last second EGC escape.
And a Dracula that won his game handily, but for some reason they didn't want to play it out to the end. Weird.
I get that at a high level, small margins can make a big difference to the end result of a game. But I can promise you, every single one of these Killers would absolutely demolish every lobby I've ever been in. They could 12 hook most public lobbies if they wanted to. So I'm not sure what this video is meant to prove, because it has absolutely nothing to do with what the game is like for a majority of players. The funny thing is, the system can be fully deactivated for custom games like this!
I don't have time to critique every video. Point being, you can always edit a video to push a narrative. Even if they're not consciously doing it, people who play this game for a living are more likely to push a narrative that benefits their own interests.
Or how about this gem of a video, a regular Legion doing Legion things 12 hooking a team that features some of the same players in this showcase. Spoilers: they end a 201 game escape streak:
Proof that Legion is in urgent need of a nerf? Maybe Joey's Mixtape is too strong? Yes, I know this map is very Killer sided and they had the buffed Unbound equipped, but still... This game is just not that serious. Most people are playing for fun and tunnelling is not that. I could be totally wrong, but I find it hard to believe it would have been doomsday like many Killers were saying if this update had come to live.
P.s. If the random Legion ever reads this - Respect, you are a hero for all Legion kind <3.
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He slugged to play around Deliverance.
That was under comp rules with survivor perks being extremely limited on a map that usually results in something between 4k2-4k0 for Blight, who in this instance, is arguably the best comp Blight on Earth. He struggled to get a 2K.
I dunno about the 2nd video - I stopped watching when I saw it wasn't PTB related.
Here's the Reddit thread on that video:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1n98hui/during_hens_ptb_pro_showcase_obii_team_elysium/-3 -
Have people really avoided Twitch/Reddit/YouTube/these very forums during the PTB?
If they're all of equal quality, you've got jack. The forums mostly consisted of stuff like
'Survivors can just hard throw the match for a speed boost!'
'Why don't killers get [thing]? They do? Well in that case, it's useless!'
and
'If I do everything wrong, am I supposed to just lose?'
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People are fed up with getting tunneled/slugged (or rather fed up with perceiving that they're getting tunneled/slugged, I'm not going to presume that everyone is rational while actively playing, I'm certainly not) and were ready for anything, even a completely flawed system that does more than just address hard tunneling/slugging, to alleviate these issues in the short term. Some killer players were also ready for the basekit fresh hook incentives because in their mind, the flaws of the system weren't going to be that big of a deal for them and their playstyle. I think they would've ended up complaining anyway, because someone like Scott Jund who held that opinion would've inevitably ran into a bullshit scenario and made a video about it, and if Scott Jund has a problem then clearly other likeminded people would have a problem because tribalism, but I digress (and poison the well with that thought). Then you have people that are just genuinely afraid that the entire plan might be scrapped or pushed waaaaaaaaay too the future, which is a rational fear all in all.
The thing about the first two of these is that like…people can just stop playing the game if they're that fed up, right? Wait a while longer and hope for a better outcome next time. But maybe they're still attached to FOMO and have a battlepass to complete. Or maybe people just really like complaining. Who knows.
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I'd suggest putting your biases aside and starting here:
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The forums are the REAL game
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People might lie about it because they hate the Go Next system, and want it removed. There absolutely is a motivation for lying.
The fact that we don’t have a lot of proof of it happening, is proof that it’s not happening enough to be a problem. Something that only happens like 1 in 1,000,000 games, is not a problem.
Remember that we had A LOT of videos from people claiming the AFK crows were unfairly punishing them, because it’s 2025, and there are a lot of survivors that can figure out how to record their matches. Why is it that we had so many videos of AFK crows, but pretty much zero videos of Go Next?
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Oh right. Slugging around Deli seems like a very comp minded thing to do. Not something I would ever do, because I forget this perk even exists when I'm playing Killer since it's fairly uncommon. That's another illustration of how different the game is for players like me compared to these guys. If they were playing under comp rules, why were they playing with a system that can be deactivated in customs for the express purpose of comp play? The system doesn't matter at all to comp. It's not a fair test under normal match circumstances.
I posted the second video because it featured an unknown player (not the "best of the best") using a low tier Killer but still winning against the same Survivor players. This is without tunnelling or slugging at all. Does it prove anything or support the silly points I made? No, but then neither does the first video. That's why it was relevant to include.
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Not trying to dispute the point because either way what I'm about to question wouldn't change the point since they have a lot longer of a list than just those two things. However wasn't the point of the initial anti-slug because they were testing it alongside the original state of the finisher mori which would have promoted extreme slugging? So the reason it was scrapped was because they decided to go in a completely different, and much more wanted, version of the finisher mori?
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AFK crows aren't that close of a comparison. Penalities from being tunneled are, at least, uncommon, yes, but crows were very, very common. I got them mutiple times and saw multiple people get them, while playing both killer and survivor, for reasons they didn't deserve. That was a big issue. The DC penalty is a smaller one but more punishing, since it affects your ability to even get into a game.
But if you're that skeptical, then make a post requesting evidence.
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I just find it people care more about their fun than actual game health. You cannot sit here and tell me that if someone hovers for a pallet save on first down, so I'm forced to either waste time getting the injure or let the anti-slug build up while 2 other survivors are on gens. Because in this day if you lose your first down its most likely ggs as a lot of killers where there's nothing you can really do to come back other than capitalizing on survivor mistakes and not your own gameplay.
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