http://dbd.game/killswitch
I think the proposed Deerstalker rework could be incredibly problematic
I know this is being held back while they update the anti-slug/tunnel changes, but I think with all of the commotion of the other changes, this change flew under the radar, and I feel like I need to draw attention to it.
While it may seem equivalent to Object of Obsession, and on paper, I suppose it is, I don't think it'll play out like that in practice.
Killers don't have the same risk that Survivors do when their auras are revealed, as they cannot be directly harmed, so the potential downside that comes with Object does not translate at all to Deerstalker. It will also lead to scenarios where the Killer will be able to get constant, map-wide info on EVERY Survivor, to the degree not even remotely possible for Object.
One major, and very common example, is Kindred:
If someone with Kindred goes on the hook, and the Killer has Deerstalker, the Killer will be able to proxy-camp, and get perfect info on the ENTIRE TEAM, for the duration of that hook. There will be absolutely no way to approach the hook stealthily, as Kindred's aura reading is indefinite.
This full-team info also applies, to a lesser extent, to Wiretap, and (can you believe this perk could possibly get any worse) Treacherous Crows.
Perks that reveal the Killer's Aura are generally pretty niche, and I don't think need this hard of a counter anyway, but with Kindred, this perk will be far too strong, and enable perfect Proxy Camping potential.
I really think this perk needs a new effect, as it either counters perks that are already underused, or in the case of Kindred, provides far too much info as it allows the Killer to see the entire team indefinitely.
Comments
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8 -
Well that's good at least.
I do think that having a counter to killer aura reading perks like this is still not a good thing. We don't need indirect nerfs to Alert or Fogwise, and ESPECIALLY not Treacherous Crows.
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Imagine having to not great skill check for the entire match because the killer brought a single perk :0
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I just thought it ironic that they admitted there's times where some slugging is normal to avoid a pallet save or whatever, then they changed the perk that helped you find the slug. Thats how a 20 second slug turns into a 90 second one.
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I am totally fine with the perk not working with Kindred and Wiretap, because that would be too much aura reading of the entire survivor team.
But it should be fine to work with perks like Alert and Fogwise. Complaining about that, would be like asking for Bite The Bullet to be reworked because it indirectly nerfs Stridor.
-11 -
Not really. Stridor is one perk, this is targetting a whole class of typically underused perks.
Stridor also counters Bite the Bullet anyway? At least the grunts of pain suppression part.
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It’s still the same general idea, where we question if perks should be reworked, because of barely used perks.
PTB Deerstalker heavily encourages the killer to spread hooks, and it has the major downside that it only can see survivor auras when the survivor sees the killer’s aura.
Like, the main purpose of the perk is to be able to find the survivor that is excessively hiding, so you can spread hooks better. That should be something that is greatly encouraged, and the perk having two effects make the perk more likely to be picked.
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Distortion was nerfed due to blanket countering aura reading perks far too effectively. Deerstalker should be given the same consideration.
It needs a new effect.
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Distortion was nerfed because survivors were using it to excessively hide, which punishes the rest of their team. Survivors shouldn’t have anti-teamwork perks.
There were so many times as killer, where I wouldn’t see a Distortion user at all during a game, until after 2 or 3 survivors were sacrificed. The fact that Distortion users often sandbagged the other survivors, was more important than it countering killer perks.
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They actually opened the dev update note for that one saying it "counters a lot of perks and addons", and that "the token system and recharge mechanic makes Distortion far too effective". Those were the primary motivations behind the nerf, as quoted directly from the developers.
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By that logic, should calm spirit be nerfed since it takes away an entire killer tracking mechanism for the entire game?
Should iron will be nerfed since that also takes away an entire killer tracking mechanism, that can potentially last the entire game?
Should Fog Vials be nerfed more, since they completely take away THREE killer tracking mechanisms?
Seriously, why is it ok when survivor stuff completely counters entire classes of killer stuff, because we should suddenly care when killer stuff counters survivor stuff?
-3 -
Considering those are mostly basekit mechanics instead of specific perks, I don't personally think so. Fog Vials are also incredibly limited anyway.
why is it ok when survivor stuff completely counters entire classes of killer stuff
Distortion was nerfed for a very good reason, and I'm glad it was. We should keep that same energy for this, though.
1 -
Removing entire classes of basekit mechanics is a much worse offense than nerfing perks, because the basekit mechanics literally happen every single game.
And again, it’s not like the killer gets to use this perk for free. It has a major downside. And it heavily promotes spreading hooks. It should be allowed to have a decent secondary power.
It’s ridiculous for people to keep saying that killers should spread hooks, but also don’t want killers to have anything decently useful to help them spread hooks. Like seriously, encouraging the killer to spread hooks is more important than a couple of barely used survivor perks. This is especially true since the killer only reveals the survivor when the survivor reveals the killer.
-2 -
it was changed because killers got upset that their lethal Pursuer got countered
3 -
it seems they coded it to work ONLY if the aura reading from the survivor is a duration effect instead of a proximity area like kindred, wiretap and possibly the Crimson Stamp addon for the map.
I think this is a very, very good idea from the devs to make sure this perk isn’t abused in the cases where a surv has kindred or wiretap.
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It doesn't counter it tho. Undetectable counters killer aura reading.
Deerstalker is literally Object of obsession. Survivor still gets to see the killer, which means during that time mind games don't work, that still stands.
Killers don't have the same risk that Survivors do when their auras are revealed, as they cannot be directly harmed
As someone who was using Object of obsession when Weave was popular (Wiretap can still do the trick), killer can absolutely be screwed by it, especially M1 killers.
Part about revealing is also good, because it shows to "lowest chase", so it's unlikely to help you get someone out of the game, except late game, where there are some dead survivors already…Luckily it works same as OoO and your aura needs to be visible, so can't be used with undetectable, which is quite a big drawback I would say.
Don't take me wrong, I would much rather keep old version. Deerstalker is not really good perk imo, when there are way better information perks. Survivors don't use that many killer aura reading perks and those that are popular are not working for Deerstalker.
Survivors can also easily figure it out and just try to keep gen between them and the killer. At that point you give survivors free information…
I think it would be an issue with Kindred and Wiretap, but it was already said it doesn't work, so now you are just struggling to keep your point.-2 -
My main thought process is that survivors shouldn’t be punished for items or perks that their teammates use. The reason why it would be unfair if Kindred worked with Deerstalker, is because it’s punishing the 3 survivors that didn’t bring Kindred. As in, Deerstalker should only ever work on the one survivor that caused the killer aura reveal.
And the easiest way to achieve this, is to just exclude any survivor perks or items that can reveal the killer’s aura to multiple survivors at the same time.
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