http://dbd.game/killswitch
Honestly, I am done for now and I hope you are too
The update, sure, needs tweaks. But why not implement a version with reduced numbers that basically only have impact in specific cases?
6 hooks too many to block gens? Depends on the killer, but reduce it to 4 so that at least someone else needs to be hooked first.
25% being too much of a boost? Drop it to 10%. Barely will have an impact, but it will give survivors some hope of finishing 4 gens if someone dies early.
Anti-slug can be implemented as is, Twins needs a rework anyway. If it needs tweaks, then do so later. Undying was up for 5 months before it got tweaked. Ghoul has been in an annoying state for forever too. Killers can deal with 3 months of anti-slug potentially being a bit too punishing
Keep the basekit bbq and 5% permanent regression bonus per unique survivor hooked too.
THEN tweak the rest around it. Its a baseline that would just make games more than just singularity basically camping with biopods, or a trickster dropping chase because main event is ready and the basekit BT is just a minor obstacle.
But fully delaying it for another 3 months? No. Sorry, Done. I already waited over a year to finally hear an update about a viable basekit anti-slug and some tweaks to anti-tunnel. I've waited 6 months since the emergency abandon feature. If I need to wait for another 3 months, thats going to be 3 months playing something else.
Comments
-
Nope - I’m gonna keep playing
-9 -
even with your proposed figure changes it still doesnt solve the issue that certain low tier killers NEED to tunnel hard against good survivors so the changes would either have no effect or essentially kill the killer role. maybe the devs have realised this and dont want every match to be v same 3/4 killers as they are they only ones to perform good enough without tunneling. if i have to v nurse or blight more than i already do i wouldnt touch survivor. i rather tunneling remain and atleast go against a variety of killers. its not just tweaks thats needed its a whole new system thats needed.
-17 -
Anti-slug can be implemented as is
No, it can't. Definetly not the part where you can crawl and recover at the same time.
It doesn't make sense to punish the killer for leaving survivor on the ground and also making them harder to find.I can work with 90 seconds limit even on killers like Twins, Oni, Plague. But I can't do anything about it, if they can always just change their location quickly, which is going to take away from time limit I am given.
Right now I know if I return within 20 seconds, I am most likely to still find survivor there, that simply wouldn't work.They also reworked Deerstalker on top of it, so you can't even use that to fix the issue.
-6 -
Because the issue isn't numbers. Reducing the numbers from the ptb doesn't change the abuseability aspects of the system nor does it change how the system doesn't really affect the already best killers in the game.
It's better to not send something half bake live.
-6 -
if you NEED to tunnel then you are playing out of your skillset and playing against people better than you. That is going to happen. You are going to lose at some point. Yall need to except the loss and allow mmr (which noone can see, so ego wont be harmed), to drop to a level where your natural skillset is viable. Thats what mmr is for, pairing players of similar skill against each other. By tunneling for that desperate cheese method of a win, you are artificially inflating your mmr which forces you to continue to tunnel. An actual self-fulfilling prophecy. The comp kid desperation for a win is the only thing keep the myth "tunneling is necessary" alive.
29 -
does it change how the system doesn't really affect the already best killers in the game
Issue is I don't think you can change this.
I think you could choose better rewarding effects, that will work more or less same for killers. BBQ really does not…-10 -
Yeah i flat out refuse to play survivor. I tried it with a friend who invited me. It was miserable. Had a match with a chucky who HARD..like unbelievably HARD tunneled a lara croft. I attempted to body block and he wouldn't even swing at me, only focused on the lara croft. All 5 gens were done and only 3 hooks occurred all on the same player who was targeted. before that it was two matches where it was rampant slugging AND tunneling. In fact I think I have had one match in 1v4 since THE SYART of 2v8 where hard tunneling and/or rampant slugging did not occur.
Theyre already complaining about killer q times. Well this is why. You play in a manner that makes no-one want to play. You can only blame yourself for the rising q times.
19 -
so your saying killers v solo players in same skill bracket dont need to tunnel but at some point they will go against swf teams that have far more advantage over solo players, at this point its time to take the loss? doesnt make sense
-17 -
no im not saying that, thats just what you chose to get out of what i said because of your bias. what doesnt make sense is treating every single match as if its against comp communication level and experience swf despite it be a very VERY small portion of not only players, but swf groups. You justify toxic unhealthy gameplay because you have a had a few rough matches against swf. The thing is though….as killer the only way to know if it is swf is if they tell you or you can see it on their steam or whatever social media. So a plethora of you are just assuming it is swf. Even so. most swf are just a couple of people who wanna play a game with their friends. Most do not take this game as seriously as you.
what i AM saying is. If you cannot win via healthy means. you are not in your skill bracket. it has nothing to do with swf as swf are in all brackets and killers beat swf in all brackets without needing to tunnel….even as trapper. it has to do with your specific performance and methods causing your mmr to artificially inflate. Even if high MMR is 100% comp survivor 4 man swf. Why do you care about getting to that mmr? do you get prizes? cool stickers? no you dont. you dont even see your mmr. So youre essentially tunneling and forcing yourself to go against these players all out of pride and ego. Take the L. Winning isnt everything. Let your mmr drop to a point where it is natural for you. thats what mmr is for.
15 -
I play lower tier killers, I dont NEED to tunnel against good survivors.
Besides that, the basekit bbq, basekit pop, basekit 10% kick after hooking everyone once. All things that will aid.
Against tournament squads? Yeah, sure, I would lose those without running the sweatiest build. But here's a thought: So what? SO WHAT. 1 game I will get absolutely demolished despite my best efforts. That is the killer in need of a buff, not an excuse to keep tunnelling in the game as is right now. If a killer needs to tunnel, get that specific killer buffed.
And I 100% rather play the next 3 months only against Nurse with the changes they proposed(which I do consider too extreme, it DOES need tweaking), than play the game as is right now.
Other than that, what variety? Haste Clown, Kaneki, Double speed addon Blight, Tombstone Myers, Nurse. Billy if you're lucky.
And no, its not a whole new system that is needed. Blocking gens IS a good solution to prevent rushing out a survivor at 4-5 gens "just cus". If you're a good killer, survivors wont be able to escape anyway. So what if the gen count reaches 0? You still got a 3k. You still won. I never worried about gen count ever, if I get 3-4 kills, I won. regardless if there are 0 or 5 gens remaining. By the time you NEED to tunnel someone out, you should already focus on your endgame plan.
The average gens remaining at the end of a match is 3. If balance was healthy, that average should be around 1.3.
The system they proposed requires tweaks, as an example:
1. Sadako's mori should be considered as that survivor having reached 3 full hooks.
2. The 25% is generally speaking fine, especially considering killers get 10% kick regression bonus per non-subsequent hook and a permanent 5% kick regression bonus.
3. The haste bonus for non-subsequent hooks should last untill the next time the killer uses an ability or hits an injured survivor. Effectively the conspicious action version for killers. Mobility killers would effectively lose it instantly, killers like Trapper could in theory use it forever.
The system needs tweaking, but that doesnt mean a baseline version with reduced numbers can be placed live, just to stop the current behaviour.13 -
It depends on time of posting, I am objectively antagonizing people who dislike the changes, especially because literally speaking, killers have been MMR boosted for 4 years.
And that isnt to say that killers are bad, but if you want to win against people who are objectively better than you at the game, you need to use mechanics like tunnelling and slugging heavily. If every game consists of tunnelling and slugging, you're simply boosted.
Honestly, BHVR should've released the update as is with a hard MMR reset, but if they are going to take 3 more months to basically get a similar result, they would need to come with a soft MMR reset.Post edited by Rizzo on9 -
your logic makes no sense based on my experience. when i started playing i didnt tunnel at all and i got a balance of wins and losses. Then i hit a wall and would lose almost every match. how long do you expect people to lose consistently to get that mmr down? after a couple hundred hours i thought this isnt fun at all so i started tunneling to pick up a few wins. now im going against sweaty swf on coms an a regular basis and tunneling doesnt always work so im maintaining my balance of wins and losses. if i did it your way i would have quit the game long ago because losing time after time wasnt fun. thats not healthy for the game.
if you flip it though, tunneling can and has been countered. i myself have countered being tunneled with a good team. if you cant counter being tunneled then maybe you should take the loss and get that mmr down so you can v a killer thats not as good at tunneling? loop better, have a better team behind you and you can counter it otherwise killers would have a kill rate of 100% which i assure you they dont. the 60/40 balance the devs had as a goal and finally achieved is WITH tunneling. remove it and watch the kill rate drop, you will soon see exactly how much certain killers need to tunnel to keep that 60% kill rate
-6 -
then your a very skilled player to achieve a good kill rate with low tier killers without tunneling lol. most players including myself have spent hundreds of hours trying achieve what you have done and it just doesnt seem to work. so the choice is, keep trying for however many hours trying to win without tunneling and having a poor experience doing it or or tunnel and even the odds to keep the 60% kill rate. clearly the devs know tunneling is needed to some degree otherwise they wouldnt care how punishing it is for killers because they shouldnt be tunneling. the fact they have realised this and dont want it too punishing means they want tunneling to remain for the ones that need it and the situations the require it.
as for the average gens at the end being 3, from my experience as survivor, this is because survivors just dont touch gens (which the killer doesnt need to tunnel to win) but when survivors actually try and do the gens they fly like theres no tomorrow. thats when tunneling is needed. unfortunately the killer doesnt know if they will be against people that actually play the game or if they are going against a solo squad that wants spin around in circles instead of doing gens, so the killer often assumes they will play the game, do gens so need to tunnel
-6 -
the logic makes perfect sense, the only reason you cant comprehend it is because you cant fathom losing that much. It does not take a lot of losses to lower mmr to where you belong. Now for someone who habitually tunnels because thats the only way for them to win…it will take more. because they artificially inflated their mmr well past where they belong. Given the choices…yes you keep trying and keep losing so your mmr settles at a comfortable level. it is only tedious because you used cheap desperate tactics to win and inflate that mmr. You will get to a point where you dont need to tunnel to win. I dont EVER tunnel. hell half the time i dont even have gen regression….i do perfectly fine. The desperation for that validation of a win is so powerful those who tunnel are willing to make their game experience miserable and the experience of others miserable simply because they want to win that badly. Learn to accept loss, fundamental skill in life tbh. Survivors by design…lose most of their matches, if they can handle constant loss…so can everyone else.
The devs did not revert the update because they are in favor of tunneling…they reverted it because it was too punishing for regular killers who don't tunnel or may accidently tunnel. The goal was to punish tunneling and reward healthy gameplay, but they punished those trying to play healthy as well, hence the delay.
drop the comp mindset. let your mmr settle naturally. i PROMISE you will find this game to be less frustrating and anxiety inducing. Hell i just got 3 4k matches in a row with scratched mirror myers. no gen regression. it is a thing you can do. my main ghostface build is all aura reading…no gen regression. I do very well with it. Tunneling is not necessary, even less so if you let your mmr be at where your actual skill level is and not where your ego wants it to be.
-1 -
i think your ignoring the fact that i mentioned i hit a wall and lost match after match long before i started tunneling. few hundred hours of losing constantly with no tunneling. i ask again, how long should i have played the game, losing every match after i legitimately raised my mmr by playing "fair"? you might have a point if i raised mmr by tunneling at the start when i first played but i didnt. survivors lose 60% of the time by design, thats what they sign up for by playing that role. killers shouldnt lose 80% of the time like i was before tunneling. thats not the design i sign up for as killer and not the design the devs had in mind either. im not after all wins like you seem to be suggesting. im after 60% kill rate, thats not an absurd thing to expect from killer role. i can take a few losses its no big deal i take losses with tunneling but like i said before, not tunneling = far less than 60% kill rate for me. if it ever got to that point again i would walk as many other killers would too.
i play survivor as well as killer and i honestly have no issues regarding tunneling. i am currently at 45% escape rate (which is higher than the 40% goal). my only issue with survivor is my team mates are often usless. besides the obvious issues that sitting on a gen can be pretty boring but generally i have no problems regarding tunneling killers in my matches like everyone claims they are. if i can get 45% escape rate with god awful teams and tunneling killers then why cant others? you say you can achieve a good kill rate without tunneling so others can do it too. equally i can get 45% escape rate, why cant others? skill issues? poor game design? need 1000 hours to practice tunneling counters?
-1 -
I play as mid and lower tier killers and have a 60% KR and I've never needed to tunnel to win.
9 -
then your very skilled :) i on the other hand and many other killers out there are not as skilled as you. i cant achieve what you can. i get 45% escape rate with poor team mates and tunneling killers. im sure others can too right?
-8 -
You and me both. I have an average of 60% too. And I don't tunnel either
3 -
If you lost as much as youre saying for several hundred hours then you're either using hyperbole or just genuinely lacked skill. Im willing to bet you did not lose as much as you want us to believe, you just remember the losses because theyre more emotional charged than wins. And if anything if youre losing that much then you DEFINITELY dont want to tunnel for tow reasons. the first being mmr. the second is that by losing the devs are seeing that this specific killer is underperforming and is need in buffs. However by tunneling for that ezpz win. Their stats are showing the killer is doing well enough and does not need a buff. tunnelers are literally shooting themselves and other killers in the foot. If all the tunnelers who tunnel becuase they "have to, to win", just played regularly they would either see their overall skill improve or buffs to killers. Tunneling serves only the purpose of gratifying one specific person in one specific moment.
basically tunneling does the following:
Artificially inflates your mmr so you perform worse and get increasingly frustrated
Prevents the devs from getting a clear picture of killer data so they may implement appropriate buffs.
10 -
100% disagree with what you said there lol. if losing with a killer meant devs would buff them to keep them in line with other killers then we wouldnt crapper that has never really been touched in 9 years or an overly nerfed skull merch which is now underperforming compared to a lot of other killers. i have had many good years playing this game thanks to tunneling helping me raise my kill rate and i have have way more fun matches as a result. still do have fun matches so i honestly dont regret my decision at all. im far less frustrated now than when i first started. if that ever changed i would find something else to play, its really not a big deal. But from my experience the 2 points you raised of what tunneling does just isnt true. my matches are not worse as a result they are better. And the devs still have not buffed underperforming killers in years.
IF and its a big IF, my actions of tunneling does end up biting me in the derriere and i get frustrated and struggle and lose then i still wont regret it because i have already had many years of fun from this game, i will move on.
-7 -
yeah I only play events, after 2v8 playerbase is dropping quickly again, all extra players from fnaf are gone you can tell normal mode feels like a waste of time, real missed opportunity with that PTB
at least streamers got what they wanted they can keep doing their winstreaks, thanks for making sure nothing exciting or fresh ever makes it into the actual game 👍️
6 -
I don't want anyone else to quit. My concern is that, yeah, too many people ARE quitting. Have you seen the queue times? I'd be worried if MY livelihood was tied to it in any way.
I haven't played since I unlocked the last of the 2v8 stuff, and I probably won't again until at least the next chapter, if not the Halloween event… IF the rewards are decent…
I'm certainly not going to play the regular mode as survivor (without some big incentives) for quite awhile to come.
1 -
Yeah killer wait times have been brutal. I can play about double the survivor matches in the same time slot.
6 -
I haven't been playing since the Anniversary. Couldn't get my friend to stick to the game and he quit after a couple of weeks.
9 -
I am the very definition of average.
And that's cool that you're not frustrated, but you don't care if your opponents feel that way instead?
5 -
I dropped survivor awhile ago and feel so much better for it. So it wasnt because of this update, it was just time. I think i held onto the role for longer than I should have, as I'd been playing less and less survivor games for awhile in the lead up. When they announced the health focus this year I kind of thought it might rekindle my interest in the role but it didnt happened. It's also been good on my bank account as I no Ionger buy survivor cosmetics and killer cosmetics never interested me.
12 -
Kind of crazy because I've been following the numbers since there were so many arguments about what queue times would be pre-patch. Nearly 8 minutes for killers on the German server at the moment.
If you just play during primetime hours servers look reasonable around the world, but outside those hours they quickly get out of whack.
6 -
I'm having the opposite experience. Any time before midnight has seen slow but once it's sweaty hours I'm right into a match.
4 -
Have you already played during the killer shortage? Killer got the short end of the stick literally every patch for years. And guess what? Killer mains either quit or switched to survivor. Lobby times for survivor skyrocketed. Killer got insta lobbies and dodged lobbies with unwanted items in it. You want to go back there? I am a returning killer main from that days, because friends told me the gamebalance got better. That "anti-tunnel/slug" mechanic would be a mace to the face to every killer player who is maining a non S tier or pay to win killer. So, right now I have 3 more month to play and triy out, if the new balance is actually balanced.
-12 -
Post edited by cogsturning on0
-
Edit: the forum is being weird for me. Didn't mean o have these extra posts.
Post edited by cogsturning on2 -
I remember those days. I remember beeing instablinded and how much sweat it took me to get rank 1 killer back in january 2018. I admit in the end I pulled out iridiscent huntress to achieve it. And also playing red rank survivors meant quite some waiting time and hear billy's chainsaw at the start of most matches. Wasn't the best time and everyone was happy when improvements came for killers. Especially when the pallet vacuum was removed. Suddenly we had killer lobby times which took quite some time for a while.
But as someone who remembers I know that the proposed changed wouldn't have brought DbD even near those days. So much has changed and adjusted since then. There was problematic stuff in it, worthy to discuss and it was important to catch it on the PTB and consider adjustments. Definitively. But I wouldn't use the hyperbole, that it would have killed killer gameplay completely. As some claim. It would be a big shake up. But that it's supposed to be. You can't adress slugging and tunneling without shaking up the entire game.5 -
You could say that about anything.
"if you NEED to take hits then you are playing out of your skillset and playing against people better than you. That is going to happen. You are going to lose at some point. Yall need to accept the loss and allow mmr (which noone can see, so ego wont be harmed), to drop to a level where your natural skillset is viable. Thats what mmr is for, pairing players of similar skill against each other. By bodyblocking for that desperate cheese method of a win, you are artificially inflating your mmr which forces you to continue to bodyblock. An actual self-fulfilling prophecy. The comp kid desperation for a win is the only thing keep the myth 'taking hits is necessary' alive."
You act like tunneling is some exploit that breaks the game. That killers are like "damn it, I only have 1 hook at 2 gens, I need to press the tunnel button now" and then all survivors instantly turn to dust.
It's not. It's a strategy. Sometimes you win because you tunnel, sometimes you win regardless of if you tunnel, sometimes you lose because you tunnel. Needing to tunnel to win a game is no different than needing to take hits to win or or to prerun to win.
-4 -
On the subject of you could say the same about anything
It's a strategy. Sometimes you win because you tunnel, sometimes you win regardless of if you tunnel, sometimes you lose because you tunnelInfinites, old, old Dead Hard, MFT, old Dead Hard, WTP+BU, etc were all strategies. As is gen rush, conviction, looping builds, sabo teams, etc are all strategies. Sometimes you win with them, sometimes you would win without them, and sometimes you lose.
The fact that something is a strategy does not mean it is too easy, too powerful, harms the game, or, as is the case with tunneling, all of the above.
9 -
Doesn't help that incentives are completely broken, with 5+ min killer queue I get 1.25 on survivor it's insulting, what's even the point of incentives if you're not going to use them ? give me a real bonus and I might be able to endure solo queue
4 -
That is my whole point. Your argument against tunneling could be applied to so many things, it wasn't a good argument.
-14 -
Yeah i play around midday and my queue times are around 5 mins
5 -
Im having another break, every round it's just a free 4k for the killer by hard tunnelling or camping and I finally thought devs were going to make solo q playable with these updates but over and over again they just fold to the moaning free win killers. I cant go a round without being face camped with the useless anti camp or tunnelled.
7 -
I'm not the one who made the argument originally, though I generally agree.
The 'this complaint can be made against anything' ignores that just because an argument can be made doesn't make it good or bad, one needs to look at the substance of the issue.
A better example on the survivor side than what you brought up might be survivors who over rely on syringes. If BHVR was going to nerf syringes and they were saying they needed them to win, it would be a valid point to say that people became too dependent on them.
But people's dependency on them wouldn't have any worth in a discussion of the overall game balance and pointing out to such players that there reliance on them boosted their MMR above their skill level would be correct.
4 -
Im not going to be like many and say killers need to tunnel, but the system implemented lacked any context. It only paid attention to hook order and not things like chases or time spent unhooked. Not every chase results in a hook.
I welcome you to watch the 2nd match here for an example. A snapshot of the UI showing 1 dead after 4 hooks might imply tunneling, but watching the game play out shows the killer chased everyone. Sometimes if 1 person is getting hooked more often then their teammates, its just because their teammates are better.
4 -
And also they forgot about double xp, fragments stuff after TWD chapter, can we remind them?
-2 -
This how our fellow solo survivors is protesting (including me) by not playing as a survivor because of changes being pushed back!
-1 -
I think I posted and it got deleted but I can't remember what I said. 😵
1 -
I'm pretty much done with soloq. I don't know what incentive could make me play without company to suffer with. The 5x wasn't enough for 2v8. Maybe 10x would make me suffer occasionally.
10 -
Some people only play one side and it shows
7 -
These mechanics are a sound idea, but the implementation is, to put it mildly, incorrect
I'm glad that they delayed this nonsecne and will return later with something more thoughtful, because on the PTB it looks like they thought about these systems for 15 minutes at most, without taking into account/attention to a bunch of different situations that can happen, well, and abusers who will abuse all this to the maximum
Correcting the numbers backwards won't fix the problems people have already found on the PTB, because the basic ideas themselves aren't very well thought out
But in reality, even with all these bonuses, it is still more effective for killers to take out 1 player than to get haste and % to kick generators
In 2v8, they condescended to slow down and increase the repair speed if one of the sides does not keep up with the other
In general, it's better for them to delay, but set everything up, test it 100%, than release some crap-6 -
To be blunt… no i dont care. i dont mean to sound harsh but when 2 sides are competing and 1 side is losing, its not always going to be fun for the losing side. no one is forcing people to play a frustrating game, they do it out of choice. survivor or killer, makes no difference. As selfish as it might sound, when i play any game, im playing for me not to entertain others.
-13 -
You are indeed forcing people to play a frustrating match if you're hard tunneling. The killer is making the choice for others. Just like bully squads choose to make frustrating games for killers. And it's not about losing. Most people probably don't mind losing an even and balanced match where no one played dirty. Close matches are more thrilling than stomps. They mind being forced into a loss by some showing no skill and who was unwilling to engage with regular gameplay.
But if you can't hover near the average KR without constant tunneling (and I'm not sure I believe that) then that's on you, and that's why something needs to change in this game.
15 -
Huge difference between squads that intentionally go into a match to bully with no intention of actually doing the gens or playing the game v a killer going into a match doing what they are supposed to be doing (killing). This is part of the game, part of the gameplay. its like survivor saying they dont like sitting on gens because its boring… dont play that role then? if i was frustrated with pallets then we should remove pallets? no, just dont play killer.
People do mind losing very much lol, survivors hated being slugged for 4min by toxic killers, understandably. They wanted a way out of that match and claimed for ages "i dont care i lost, i just want to go to the next match." They got exactly that….abandon option. Now people have that option, many have openly admitted they want a way to recover when slugged so they have a way to make a comeback. But people said they didnt mind losing when slugged as long as they can get out of the match penalty free.
As far as im concerned if people cant counter being tunneled thats on them. As others have pointed out, its a tactic and sometimes it doesnt work. if it worked EVERY single time then yes nerf it but it doesnt work EVERY time. Its exactly the same as loops, some are very strong and cant be mind gamed, have to force the pallet drop. do these strong loops work for the survivor EVERY time? no. Should we nerf them because they can be strong and unfun for the killer to deal with?
-8 -
Anything that enables toxic behavior should be removed in my opinion. Doesn't matter the side, but the amount of toxicity I have been facing lately has been almost unbearable.
Mostly by the killers, in the form of bleeding out while being constantly humped.
And you know you can easily play around bully squads, right?The "abandon" option is only a band-aid fix on a broken bone. It doesn't make the experience any better.
And no, it shouldn't be a requirement to always run perks like DS, Unbreakable and other anti-tunnel perks every single game because you always assume the killer to be tunneling. That's just anti-fun10
