http://dbd.game/killswitch
Recall of PTB and tunneling issue
Comments
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But you're not
riskinganything. Even in the little blurb you pulled up, it mentions the
possibilityof something bad happening. But in the situation you describe, and the way you've construed tunnelling, it's not a possibility at all. It's a guarantee.
Gosh, what? Now we again reinventing words.
Where u see guarantee of the win? It’s an attempt of securing, nothing about guarantee until u don’t see some Spirit.
English literally foreign language for me yet it seem I know meaning of some words even better.
This game is literally in PvP genre. Your decisions SUPPOSED to be risky if your opponent able to provide counterplay. Why we even discuss it.
willhave to
I don’t. It’s not my issue this game don’t teach how to counter tunneling and majority of players struggling with it despite having perk that literally gives a minute of endurance or can take a hook stage from your teammate. Survivors already overbuffed and high level play shows it, but high neglecting of solo, problematic killer powers and people like you have a tendencyof creating false image. I invested my time to dodge it as survivor player, so I want game more challenging and provide actual competition by skill comparassion rather than blind number buffs and forbid of strategies. So both survivors and killers have to play good, not one side having cheap tool to make it harder for other because u can’t endure direct interaction against opponent. You only advise to make it easy on low level, completely neglect high one, and make everything harder for one side only. Stop treating it as objective opinion when it’s built around of mindless punishments and lasy buffs. This changes now is just suggest taking the problems that kills solo and, instead of thoroughly solving them, shifting everything onto the shoulders of players who play a completely different role. Just because “oh, I hate killer killing too fast”
I have made no such claim!
No. I'm not too concerned about the balancing outcome of tunnelling.
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Voice comms are more unfair to killers than they are to solo q survivors.
And no, we don’t need to compensate solo q just because some other survivors use voice comms.
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And… why? It's no better than justifying extreme weakness of some killers by existing S tier ones. Why not trying at least provide some actual interaction between solo beside 2 gestures? U can’t nerf sfw without touching solo, so u can’t get rid of this unfair tool. But why other part should be limited then?
As a killer I don't have fun in winning because team just were limited by lack of communication between them…
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There are changes BHVR could make, that would nerf SWFs way more than they would solo q.
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For example?
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Oh look, it's AI…
Well guess what?
If you actually present it with the situation we're discussing, turns out it agrees that tunnelling can not reasonably be considered risky.
But just as a word of general advice: Don't rely on AI to do the thinking for you, it is brutally unintelligent.
Survivors already overbuffed and high level play shows it, but high neglecting of solo, problematic killer powers and people like you have a tendencyof creating false image.
Where's the proof that survivors are 'overbuffed' and that 'high level play shows it'? Because this is just something that keeps getting regurgitated all over the forums without anything to substantiate it.
It's always just 'this is the way I say it is and anyone who deigns to question it, is wrong'.
You only advise to make it easy on low level
Quote me.
completely neglect high one
Quote me.
and make everything harder for one side only
Quote me.
Stop treating it as objective opinion when it’s built around of mindless punishments and lasy buffs.
Seriously, quote me.
Because you've been having a conversation in your head and you're now taking your frustration out on me when I have said NONE of these things. Seriously, you are working off of some kind of grudge you have against me, not this actual conversation or thread.
I have made no such claim!No. I'm not too concerned about the balancing outcome of tunnelling.To remind you, you accused me of:
But implying that u can’t balance game on top level without tunnelling. And then along come you and your fellow “just git gud” thinkers, who insist on "it should just go because it's my opinion, and I don't actually care about balancing."
And I have not said any of these in here. I didn't say you can't balance top level without tunnelling, I didn't tell you to 'git gud', I didn't say it should go 'just because it's my opinion', and I never said I don't care about balancing.
I specifically said that I'm not concerned about the balancing outcome of tunnelling, by which I mean that I don't care whether it's OP or not, I'm concerned about the gameplay impact, not whether or not it's winning too many matches. That's not the same as saying that I don't care about balance at all. If indeed it proves to be too much of a nerf for killers over all, then compensatory buffs would be in order, absolutely. (And need I remind you, there were compensatory buffs included in the PTB, which I've spoken positively of already.)
But just buffing survivors up to be as powerful as tunnelling, thereby making tunnelling not broken overpowered, would not fix the issue I have with it. Which was what you asked of me, personally.
Aren’t u satisfied?
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”Maybe, but no compared”.
— Compared to what? To lose? Would person consciously choose constantly losing? Unlikely. Did situation forced him to commit to strategy B? So did situation forced him to choose for getting a result? Yes.”Compared to” - is not the way to cancel the risk of whole situation.
Relatively risk indeed doesn’t matter. Because u compare. Technically risk will stay no matter of what.
U can’t say risk doesn’t exist at all just because other situation is 100% failure. It This may diminishe the significance of the risk compared to a complete loss. However, people rarely choose to lose if they're competing. Therefore, scenario "A" doesn't exist in principle. No “Strategy A” if u don’t want to lose. It’s only Strategy B with uncertain outcome
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I specifically said that I'm not concerned about the balancing outcome of tunnelling, by which I mean that I don't care whether it's OP or not, I'm concerned about the gameplay impact, not whether or not it's winning too many matches. That's not the same as saying that I don't care about balance at all. If indeed it proves to be too much of a nerf for killers over all, then compensatory buffs would be in order, absolutely. (And need I remind you, there were compensatory buffs included in the PTB, which I've spoken positively of already.)
You contradict yourself.
I'm concerned about the gameplay impactnot whether or not it's winning too many matches.
But this IS gameplay impact. U can’t ignore stuff, that literally IMPACT.
If indeed it proves to be too much of a nerf for killers over all, then compensatory buffs would be in order, absolutely
My post noted the reason of PTB buffs wasn’t enough. Because nerfed 3 perks on base kit + nerfed all optional regression + limitation of HUD info + complete remove of tunneling on a level it makes no sense for gameplay were provided at the same time with buffed gen rush and heal thanks to new perk + 8 base kits for survivor + rework of optional perks that buffs already OP base kit + side bonuses when literally losing for additional % to the repair bonuses. In comparison this “buffs” means nothing, they even don’t compensate anything. No one cares about positives when this “positives” were nerfed compare to optional perks, this optional perks became irrelevant because they also got nerfed, while other side got second chances on top of second chances for doing nothing in the trial but losing.
About quoting:
“Stop treating it as objective opinion when it’s built around of mindless punishments and lasy buffs.
And
“You neglect high play”
No. I'm not too concerned about the balancing outcome of tunnelling. I want tunnelling gone
Except it's not a 'gamble' if it's the only way to win
So, talking about risks, u were continuously admitting that now - it’s only way to win on level of play when u compete against people who knows how to play this game. U admit that, but u talking this strategy should gone. Alongside with this, u never provided alternative. 3 NERFED base kits from PTB while u removing the only way to get a win - not the buff nor the compensation. U never talked under this thread about actual compensation after removing strategy u find problematic. Not u, not BHVR, not every other person provided meaningful compensation to this. And when people on this forum were talking about making at least nerfed scourge hook as base kit, a lot of people who were talking about “positives” tried to find any excuse to find 12% of remote regression as bad idea that’s not a fair. So, don’t even try to convince me that people like u were actually trying to balance stuff around, the only thing u wanted is tunneling gone and no compensation for it. So the issue isn’t in tunneling being bad in core principle. Tunneling is problematic for you because it’s the strategy people use for win. The win factor is the only thing that actually makes tunneling so unsatisfying for survivors.
Maybe, if your opinion were built around providing actual alternatives of tunneling besides just turning it off - it would be meaningful dialogue. But because the only thing u were accepting is 3 cheap base kits as “positives”, u indeed just want to make it only harder for one side and simple for other.
U can’t reduce tunneling until u’ll provide meaningful alternative of this strategy. And u don’t really wanna, because genuinely believe in tunneling being unbelievably hard to counter even with existence of strong perks or already existing base kits. When u’ll provide meaningful base kit alternative for killers to base kit anti - tunnel, it would be a talk about balance.
What to say, if decisive strike were severely “nerfed” by your opinion, when the only difference in 1 sec of stun and that u can’t use anti tunnel on endgame where tunneling doesn’t affect to so called gameplay and it’s already evident who won.
Tunneling can meaningfully gone only in one case - where this game will stop be 1 vs 4 or survivors will be completely deprived of the right to deny someone down in chase by second chance perks or save from team. Which is straightforward impossible, because u can’t forbid person to take a hit even when u remove collision, ptb proved it. Until survivors can deny hook pressure by gen rush or team play, tunneling would stay as most viable strategy. And because game doesn’t provide other meaningful ways to compete against gen efficiency from good teams, people will continue to commit to it-1 -
The term 'risky' is always comparative.
What you are arguing for, with the absolute probabilistic sense of the word 'risk', is pure semantics. It is unusable in any kind of argumentation. You can't defend tunnelling with the claim that it is 'risky' so long as your definition of 'risky' is that it doesn't have a 100% win rate, because even the most overpowered stuff in the game would qualify as being 'risky' with that definition.
Having a perk that just instantly kills one survivor for free upon loading in would be considered 'risky' under your argumentation.
Do you understand?
This discussion isn't going anywhere so long as you're arguing on this concept of the term 'risky'.
You contradict yourself.
No I don't.
But this IS gameplay impact. U can’t ignore stuff, that literally IMPACT.
Winning or losing barely impact it. You can argue that there's incentives involved with it, but I'm not staring myself blind on what the results screen says at the end of the match, I'm focused on what happens within the match. And in that regard, tunnelling is wrecking gameplay.
You can win against a tunnelling killer and still have a terrible time compared to losing against a killer that doesn't tunnel.
My post noted the reason of PTB buffs wasn’t enough.
I disagree with those too, but that's irrelevant to our current discussion.
Because nerfed 3 perks on base kit + nerfed all optional regression + limitation of HUD info + complete remove of tunneling on a level it makes no sense for gameplay were provided at the same time with buffed gen rush and heal thanks to new perk + 8 base kits for survivor + rework of optional perks that buffs already OP base kit + side bonuses when literally losing for additional % to the repair bonuses.
The nerf to regression perks is something BHVR learned from a past mistake. When killers got a basekit action speed buff, they didn't do any compensatory rebalancing to interacting perks.
Plenty of killers have expressed that they feel pigeonholed into taking gen regression. These changes basekit a portion of that gen regression, but if they didn't adjust the gen regression perks, they would stack together to create something oppressive. This is what happened with STBFL, which eventually stacked so high that it made hook rescues virtually impossible.
Stacking the basekit with the regression perk would still see an overall buff, just slightly less. However, if you decide to use something other than regression perks, the basekit buff would make the biggest impact. In this way, BHVR levels the playing field a little bit between the perks that killers complain about being forced to take, and other options. They're boosting the overall power level of all builds, while slightly tempering the boost they give to the specific builds that have been dominating the meta.
This is actually just good design.
buffed gen rush and heal thanks to new perk
You mean the one where you need to land 6 great skill checks while repairing a gen while injured? And then it gets you boosted healing speed for one heal?
I doubt it even competes with Botany. We'll Make It certainly blows it out of the water. And it certainly doesn't do anything to boost gen speeds.
nerfed 3 perks on base kit + nerfed all optional regression
8 base kits for survivor + rework of optional perks that buffs already OP base kit
No mention of the survivor basekits being nerfed versions, and the rework of Off the Record ripped off its endurance in its entirety. And unlike with the killer side of things, you can't balance them out. While Pop + Basekit is 15% higher than it used to be, OTR + Basekit is 50 seconds shorter than it used to be.
You're not looking at this level-headed at all.
About quoting:
“Stop treating it as objective opinion when it’s built around of mindless punishments and lasy buffs.
And
“You neglect high play”
No. I'm not too concerned about the balancing outcome of tunnelling. I want tunnelling goneYeah, that quote doesn't say what you say it does. Again, you are fighting out some kind of grudge you have with me and you're having an argument with a voice in your head that you attribute to me. But it's nothing I have said.
So, talking about risks, u were continuously admitting that now - it’s
onlyway to win on level of play when u compete against people who knows how to play this game. U admit that, but u talking this strategy should gone.I have made no such admission. It is a premise you have asserted. I haven't refuted it because I don't need to in order to expose a problem with your argumentation. This assertion of yours conflicts with your other assertion that tunnelling is 'risky'.
I am, in fact, more inclined to believe that tunnelling is risky than that it is the only way to win, but the point is that you can't hold both of these assertions at the same time. They are mutually exclusive.
EITHER
Tunnelling is the only avenue to a win, which makes choosing to employ it not a risky choice at all
OR
Tunnelling is risky, because you risk losing in a situation that you could otherwise win.
The reason I haven't refuted your claim that tunnelling is the only way to win at high level is because reasonably, if you choose to take the position that tunnelling is 'risky', you have to drop the assertion that tunnelling is the only way to win, yourself.
Alongside with this, u
neverprovided alternative. 3 NERFED base kits from PTB while u removing the only way to get a win - not the buff nor the compensation. U never talked under this thread about actual compensation after removing strategy u find problematic.Because this is the point where I actually reject the premise. I don't agree that tunnelling is the only way to win, and I do think that the buffs are impactful and meaningful. These naturally push the game towards more spread pressure, which is the obvious alternative to tunnelling.
Not u, not BHVR, not every other person provided meaningful compensation to this
Problem is that you are the sole arbiter of what you consider to be meaningful. So if anyone disagrees with you, then they are, to your mind, 'objectively wrong'. At which point any suggestion I make would be inherently shot down because we disagree about the level of imbalance.
After all, anything I could suggest would adhere to your definition of 'risky', and something tells me you wouldn't accept that.
What to say, if decisive strike were severely “nerfed” by your opinion, when the only difference in 1 sec of stun
As a reminder, the survivor themselves are also stunned by DS due to the animation lock. That 5 second stun amounted to roughly three seconds of distance, so cutting the stun duration by 1 second is a nerf of 33%.
That's pretty hefty. It's certainly heavier than the proposed nerf to Pop in this patch, and DS didn't have any counterbalancing basekit buffs when it got nerfed back down to stack with.
Tunneling can meaningfully gone only in one case - where this game will stop be 1 vs 4 or survivors will be completely deprived of the right to deny someone down in chase by second chance perks or save from team. Which is straightforward impossible, because u can’t forbid person to take a hit even when u remove collision, ptb proved it. Until survivors can deny hook pressure by gen rush or team play, tunneling would stay as most viable strategy.
This assertion is also distinctly untrue.
If, say, the killer got a 50% total gen progress pain res for every unique hook, and hooking a survivor twice in a row would immediately open the exit gates, you haven't done anything to nerf gen rush or team play, but tunnelling most definitely isn't the most viable strategy anymore.
Now, such numbers are obviously extreme and unworkable, but it shows that the premise for the PTB is perfectly workable. You can argue about the balance of it, but to claim that it has absolutely zero chance of succeeding is a fool's position.
You do touch upon something that is interesting though, which is prevalence of hook denial. And on that, I agree that it needs to be toned down. (Not 'second chance perks', those are tunnelling specific, no reason to nerf them) Again, similarly, I don't care about the balance outcome of rampant hook denial, I care about the gameplay aspect of it. It is awful to play against, so I want it gone. However, I also feel like I'm the only one with that opinion since it's never brought up as an issue for killers on its own merit, but always in response to survivor QoL, which is why I don't bother making suggestions with regards to it.
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Yeah, that quote doesn't say what you say it does. Again, you are fighting out some kind of grudge you have with me and you're having an argument with a voice in your head that you attribute to me. But it's nothing
Ihave said.
U can manipulate over and over this statement. U still trying to manipulate with “it’s semantic” about risk, while u compare unreliable strat A to reliable strat B, after which put comparison with imaginable perks that god damn it kill whole survivor from the start. Every of your sentence is exaggerate play. Of course when u exaggerating tunneling risk won’t matter for u. Because in proportion instead of 50/50 or 60/40 to tunnel strategy u see 90/10. U yourself fighting with your own grudge, because didn’t have experience of play where tunnel doesn’t secure wins. It’s your own sentiment here fighting with “risk” definition.
Now, such numbers are obviously extreme and unworkable, but it shows that the premise for the PTB is perfectly workable.It’s not +15% to base actual pop kit. Because it’s current progression. As well as nerfed eruption. U ignore “current”, because it’s convinient. However, the issue of OTR base kit, because alongside with it, u get additional buffs, like no collision, prolonged haste, aura read, free stealth u so craved for. It’s at least 2 perks in one base kit + additional collision buff. Same with antislug. U got overbuffed unbreakable, alongside with nerfing any track tools of slugged survivors with tenacity base kit? Compensation? No compensation. We fool around like base kit is so broken that other perks deserved to be nerfed to the ground.
Survivors don’t have to equip their meta to counter killer play style anymore, but killer still have to. So, gen rush or full chase while killer stuck with same and even nerfed version. So, buffed efficiency is clearly evident, your sentiment tried to deny it because somehow your sentiment see +25% to speed boost, blocked gens, 8 base kits equal to three base kit and side nerfs. The thing u even validate 3 base kits as 8 one AND additional system that decintives valid way of play for win and equal it just shows how u yourself stuck in delusional prejudice.
If u actually genuinely believe such changes are “balanced” - prove me. Send me the video on google disk where u win against survivors on the same level as u in PTB. Survivors good enough to last longer than 10 seconds in chase. Who can compete and know how to split up for efficiency.The problem, nor you not other people who supported this PTB had such games. Because u either didn’t play it, or were fooled by absence of MMR constantly facing people who didn’t played normally even. On paper u just manipulate with 25% of current progression pop number and play with it like it fair compensation. Which isn't, if u aren’t playing against potatoes.
Do it. Show me the balanced and fair game u had in PTB.
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You mean the one where you need to land 6 great skill checks while repairing a gen while injured? And then it gets you boosted healing speed for one heal?
The reason u talk about road life instead of one, two, three just shows how u were poorly acknowledged with PTB actually. Stacking this with hyperfocus or aitodidact were giving u unbelievable boost to both heal and gen efficiency. New exhaustion perk buffed vigil and lightweight, made this combos new meta for sprint and stealth play. And because survivors weren't afraid of tunnel/slug, the build on PTB were on exploitable level without killer being able to even counter it.
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U can manipulate over and over this statement. U still trying to manipulate with “it’s semantic” about risk, while u compare unreliable strat A to reliable strat B, after which put comparison with imaginable perks that god damn it kill whole survivor from the start. Every of your sentence is exaggerate play. Of course when u exaggerating tunneling risk won’t matter for u. Because in proportion instead of 50/50 or 60/40 to tunnel strategy u see 90/10. U yourself fighting with your own grudge, because didn’t have experience of play where tunnel doesn’t secure wins. It’s your own sentiment here fighting with “risk” definition.
You didn't understand a thing I wrote, did you?
Do you understand the concept of a hypothetical?
It’s not +15% to base actual pop kit. Because it’s current progression.
Pop Goes the Weasel is also current progression. And it has been for over three years now.
If u actually genuinely believe such changes are “balanced” - prove me.
Why don't you prove that they were unbalanced?
Why is it the standard on these forums that killer players can just pull whatever out of where-the-sun-don't-shine and survivors have to fight tooth and nail to be allowed to have an opinion?
It's the exact dogma that I mentioned earlier.
The problem, nor you not other people who supported this PTB had such games.
Prove it, then. Prove that no one had a balanced match.
The reason u talk about road life instead of one, two, three just shows how u were poorly acknowledged with PTB actually. Stacking this with hyperfocus or aitodidact were giving u unbelievable boost to both heal and gen efficiency.
Conveniently omitting 15 seconds of doing nothing first. It's also hardly the first of its kind with a directly comparable perk in Deadline, which no one picks because it's terrible.
New exhaustion perk buffed vigil and lightweight, made this combos new meta for sprint and stealth play.
That's shifting the goalposts.
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Prove it, then. Prove that no one had a balanced match.
Nuh. It doesn't work like this. I first explained why not, u tried to dodge. I asked for record prooves first. Your train were missed. But don’t worry, as I remember I had a showcase of me playing against Crasue in solo, where both killer and two other of my teammates were good. The third one DC, but new “fair” system made it responsibility of a killer, so yes.
But I’ll show it when u will show your own.
You didn't understand a thing I wrote, did you?
Do you understand the concept of a hypothetical?
It seems u just lack of words now and only thing that left is rhetorical speech. I don’t enjoy hypothetical speech on this forum, because no matter side, this “hypothesis” always ignores ideal conditions - of good player and balanced RGN existence. U yourself ignore it, because tried to compare tunneling with that weird perk. Because it seems u genuinely believe they are equal in so called ideal conditions. So on this stage, is just a sentiment.
Conveniently omitting 15 seconds of doing nothing first. It's also hardly the first of its kind with a directly comparable perk in Deadline, which no one picks because it's terrible.
This 15 seconds later last for more than just one gen. I were doing this when killer were using deadlock/grim embrace to dodge my time lose lol, so again, did u even played PTB yourself releasing full potential of new builds? U can finish two gens while this perk is active. It can ask 15 seconds in duo and 45 alone to do gen in good conditions. U can finish the gen before toolbox will be over in not really ideal conditions, but the most important- u can lessen the risky time staying on dangerous gen killer patrolling . Same with autodidact. U can “waste” 15 seconds while u waiting your teammate to find u through empathic connection and after this u can get the easiest 5 stacks in your life. I simply warned my duo about me coming to his part of the map and he was ready for healing me in ridiculous speed. The way u are comparing actually good perk to deadline, again, show your great love of exaggeration in your own favor, using false equivalence as cheap way to dodge argument.
That's shifting the goalposts
No, u just wish to ignore good stuff u already have because it doesn't correlate with your sentiment, at the same time pointing “BUT BASE POP”. So. The only reason while this pop is still used by killers and it considers as meta because u don't have alternative and numerous times many meta gen regression was nerfed, except of dms. Because survivors complained on low efficiency and tunneling at same time. But when tunneling completely gone, this pop wasn't returned to at least base state even. It's not even 40% of current progression, even when u combine base kit with slot u wasted. Nothing actually were compensated, it was cheap placebo. But for killers nothing in their builds actually changed. No meta shift - just acceptance of L situation when u are about to face interesting opponents, because now the only u can compete against is survivors who 100% play worse than u. Equality factor gone completely when it was already on thin edge.
Why is it the standard on these forums that killer players can just pull whatever out of where-the-sun-don't-shine and survivors have to fight tooth and nail to be allowed to have an opinion?
Were u looking at your own words, when claimed already existing anti tunnel perks isn’t enough? Were u looking at your words, claiming it is so unbelievably hard to counter tunneling when I showed u my stats (which u conveniently ignored)? Nuh. Because again - it’s all killer fault. Killer is so evil he use only actual strategy that gives him chances against good players to win, killers is so evil just because they don’t believe 8 base kits over 3 is fair position, killer is so evil just because they have other sentiment. Your words are backfire heavily u rn.
I’m having more hours on survivor. I just not trying to force game evolve around bad players and I believe we already have tools, people just don’t know how to use it or messy RGN and bugs spoil it over. I’m not pure killer main, so your loud claims devaluate itself again. On ptb I played survivor mainly. On normal q I play more survivor than killer. Over two months I had around 150 matches as survivor and 50 on killer. In solo, in duo, in 3 sfw, in 4 sfw. Mainly duo and solo, but now I decided to quit solo because after 2v8 end I see more sandbagging teammates in average queue.
Tunnel will stay easy as soon as players like u spread this. U contibute yourself to this system, and even level up the tension of tribalism. I tried to speak differently - asked for actual compensation or balancing on all levels, if u really wish this approach overall gone. But as u showed, your sentiment blur the vision of reaching good tools and necessity of what we have already to play around it. So, u ask and pray for this meaningless tribalism and it’s the only way to speak with u.
As with other person above, I don’t see point to invest in such speech. GL for next.1 -
I first explained why not,
And I've argued my case. So why am I the only one that has to prove anything?
It seems u just lack of words now and only thing that left is rhetorical speech. I don’t enjoy hypothetical speech on this forum, because no matter side, this “hypothesis” always ignores ideal conditions - of good player and balanced RGN existence. U yourself ignore it, because tried to compare tunneling with that weird perk. Because it seems u genuinely believe they are equal in so called ideal conditions. So on this stage, is just a sentiment.
I asked if you understand what a hypothetical is, and I think the answer, as can be deduced from this response, is a hard 'no'.
The point of the hypothetical was not to make any point about tunnelling itself but about your argument in defense of it. Your rant about 'ignoring ideal conditions' is also baseless, considering I didn't stipulate any conditions at all. So if you want to take that hypothetical in the absolute ideal conditions, you are free to do so.
You are still going to have a whale of a time trying to convince anyone that bringing a perk that instantly kills one survivor at the start of the match, for free, is considered 'risky'. No matter how ideal the rest of the conditions are.
That's my point: The 'risky' you're arguing is entirely, 100% without any argumentative value.
This 15 seconds later last for more than just one gen.
It's 90 seconds. Gens are 90 seconds. It lasts one gen. Yes, you can save some time, but you don't blink from gen to gen, so by the time you hit the second gen, it's gone.
The way u are comparing actually good perk to deadline, again, show your great love of exaggeration in your own favor, using false equivalence as cheap way to dodge argument.
Just as a quick reminder, Deadline does the same thing.
The whole thing is a massive departure anyway, because the anti-tunnel changes are separate from the new perk. If the new perk is too strong, that has no bearing on the anti-tunnel system.
No
Yes, you were talking about genrushing and healing, and you swapped to chase builds.
Were u looking at your own words, when claimed already existing anti tunnel perks isn’t enough?
Except you agree with me, since you assert that, even with anti-tunnel perks in mind, tunnelling is still by far the stronger option. So these anti-tunnel perks aren't functioning as deterrents.
Were u looking at your words, claiming it is so unbelievably hard to counter tunneling when I showed u my stats (which u conveniently ignored)?
Firstly, your stats were posted in response to someone else, not to me. Secondly, the absolute best you can muster is a 52% escape rate, which is pretty damn close to being balanced. Which you then immediately tackled out with solo queue going down to 41% escape rate, which is severely underpowered.
So you are arguing of some kind of severely survivor-sided situation where the best you were able to muster was just a fair shot, and it scaled down to being horribly disadvantaged.
I'm sure killer players are trembling.
Because again - it’s all killer fault.
Again, you are arguing with a voice in your head, not with me.
asked for actual compensation or balancing on all levels
Except you also dismiss, out of hand, any possibility of the balance not being what you insist it is. You are putting yourself in a position of solitary arbitration of what the game's balance is and should be.
Others may disagree.
The stats certainly don't reflect your position, and you have nothing else to present but personal experience and anecdote, which don't constitute proof.
If you wanted to prove that these systems would ruin the game, they would've had to have been in play for longer to actually gather relevant data, but they were pulled too quickly to do so.
This is not going anywhere. Ultimately, tunnelling is the sacred cow of a very vocal contingent of the forum, and no matter what proposal is made to combat it, it will always be shot down by those who insist on tunnelling.
-1 -
- Nerf perks that perform way better with voice comms than they do in solo q.
- Nerf hook denial, since SWFs do that way more often than solo q.
The point is, it's completely fine if a change nerfs SWF heavily, and only nerfs solo q bit a little, because the overall change is bridging the gap between solo q and SWF.
1 -
I can’t imagine nerf of such perks unfortunately, because many people will start to complain on “fun” and teamplay factor. Something like straight compensation of tunneling redundancy instead of placebo nerfed base kits already makes such people extremely sensitive if judging by posts above, so idk how u can explain people u can't deny hook by sabo or some head-on
What about chain of takin hits? U can’t forbid SFW to cover their teammate by not throwing their bodies for example. It's not related to perks. And I’m pretty sure the actual problem of sfw is their efficiency. I never struggles as killer too much against sfw with “hook denial”. Just splitting is already enough to completely change tone of the match
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Nerfing the perks is fine. A lot of them are rarely used in solo q anyway.
And hook denial absolutely is used way more in SWFs, and is the easiest way to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF. And when the anti-slugging mechanics comes back, this is the perfect way to make sure slugging is actually fair for both sides. Killers should not be punished for slugging, if the survivors forced the killer to slug. So if any meaningful anti-slugging changes are going to be added to the game, then there should be changes to ensure the killer could have hooked the survivor instead of slugging.
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Maybe we just have different experience encountering different SFWs. On CIS and around region the most aggressive play u can see doesn’t include uncounterable hook denial. Second chances perks hit more than some sfw one
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Do you think SWFs use hook denial more than solo q?
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I think sfws use it more, but I don’t find hook denial main issue of me losing. I can’t dodge teams only when they play in pub scream or comp manner - just loop good, play safe and split up.
I literally had 3 games in a row two days ago where so called sfws tried sabo, boil over and background player. They all died on 5-3 gens or were 4 slugged within few minutes. Such sfws suffer from lack of skill by ignoring main objective or excessive altruism and it kills them. It’s extremely annoying so, but really few people properly use such opportunities.
Yet every SFW I played against and lost were splitting up and bodyblocking/baiting if needed. I do it myself when play SFW and it’s much more oppressive because u just abuse your quantity superiority. That’s where imbalance of assym genre calls for me. It’s a hook denial u can’t adjust by perk nerfs. Here is the main point. Perks always works either as crutches , either counterplay, and simply nerfing them won’t fix itWe need remove this silly “nerfs” “punishments” “anti system” terms from our dictionary. I am honestly tired from people instead of incentivising/encouraging good play demand of blind nerfs of your opponents. It became so silly when it reaches boiling point where we already are
Feels like people just don’t want to compete and wait for other side be handicapped just “but, but! imaging worst scenario over as arguement”
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The point is SWFs can be nerfed.
You don’t like the solutions, but they would nerf SWFs. Yes, it would be really difficult to nerf SWF efficiency, which is why the reasonable solution would involve nerfing other things SWFs do better.
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Devs would touch and nerf every stronger killer than even touvh swf they are scared, nurse will be nerfed twice and reworked before swf will get dome change and by that time blight will be just another mediocre killer when this happens.
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They won’t change whole picture. But whatever, we can at least start with small changes. Just doubt people will accept them even. Current sentiment evolves around killers have to be nerfed, another contribution, even when it’ll affect mainly sfw will be the last drop of their patience.
Post above proved me enough what such players actually wish to see. They not satisfied with 50% winrate in sfw from player who already has such results playing less then 1k, they expect to see above 40% on solo q despite the same solo having a tendency doing mistakes which is completely their and not killer fault. People wants other role being freely punished and themselves handholded in case of losing, while they consciously put them in disadvantage, playing solo q and complaining on need to bring perks and play to counterplay. It’s like, complaining playing trapper against efficient comms. Like why people have even audacity to think that they should have free bypass from opponents, doing nothing themselves and choosing weakest tools, expecting the whole game evolve around the bottom of balance. They even see problem in tunneling, but can’t provide worthy compensation. Because again, for me such people don’t want challenge. They crave for abstract fun with no contribution from their side.
And now we talking about some perks nerfs for SFW like it’ll contribute meaningfully. Same coin from me, just other side.I just got tired from this community. Honestly. The speech around nerfs will be relentless. It’s just pull and tag war. Probably I have to quit completely or switch to ladder if majority of community have such mindset. Tried to make a meaningful post, but it was all wiped away from doomposting and “more nerfs” rant under comment section. Even now I doompost, just giving up. This is real plague
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