http://dbd.game/killswitch
Genuinely out of curiosity asking, why is everyone mad about scrapping the anti tunnel/slug changes?
Those changes were hated by everyone. Both players and content creators alike saying that they shouldn't go live by any circumstance. One of the very first times that both killers and survivors did agree on a set of big changes that did clearly favour one side.
Both these forums and reddit were flooded with posts saying that those were terrible changes (with the usual "these will kill the game"… but oh well, this is said on half of the updates so..).
So BHVR did actually listen and literally revert all of the changes, saying tha they will come again in the future but on a different way… and now people are saying that they dont listen, that they clearly hate survivors.
I understand complains like OTR nerfs (on a personal opinion, this perk was strong af tho, even without the anti-tunneling changes) or the Tenacity nerfs (this i dont even understand, it wasnt even that strong) as these changes were supposed to come aside with the anti-tunnel and anti-slug updates, so i kinda understand people being upset at them for these.
But being mad because they didnt bring these anti-tunnel and anti-slug updates seeing that those were universally hated?
Why?
Comments
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Play solo q
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The problem isn’t that the PTR patch didn’t go live as it was, but that we still don’t have any anti-tunnel or anti-slug mechanics. Maybe on the PTB it was too strong, sure, but right now the game is basically unplayable for a lot of new survivor players, and soloQ is miserable.
On top of not releasing anti-tunnel updates, they also released a killer that can tunnel extremely easily.
So players are angry not because the broken PTR version wasn’t shipped, but because we got nothing in terms of anti-tunnel or anti-slug. Even a small patch in that direction would have been really welcome.
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Most content creators I watch said that the changes were good and only needed the numbers being tuned down for being too punishing for the killers.
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Because BHVR reverted the changes and still released the correspondingly balanced killer on LIVE.
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Because we went from 120% of what was needed (Or whatever the figure was) to -30%.
There was no effort to adjust and put in anything to improve the situation, and now it's all reserved for 'a future patch', while in the meantime, they gutted OTR and Tenacity.
We went from "This is too strong" to "We somehow got less than nothing" with no commitment to fixing it. Could be years before they try again, for all we know.
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It was more like 300% if you aren't biased.
The only good faith change was the elusive status effect, everything else wasn't a quality of life, but badly masked nerf and core design / balanced shift that immediately backfired in form of Krasue.
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I mean, they announced anti tunneling and anti slugging, then pulled those changes due to "feedback".
The update they pushed live kept the changes to OTR and tenacity despite the offset adjustments to camping and tunneling being postponed indefinitely.
So the live version of "anti tunnel" and "anti slug" became "surprise, we buffed tunneling and slugging instead".
On top of that, these are issues people have been begging for changes for 9 years. So, finally BHVR acknowledges"we hear you" only to immediately, immediately turn that completely around because the loudest voices screamed at them and drowned out actual concerns... Yet again.
The game didn't even continue with status quo with this live update, these problems got actively worse instead.
And their responses make that feel intentional instead of an oversight. They haven't said they're "reverting these two perks", they said they'll "make further adjustments", and that's not the same thing.
BHVR screwed over the players this patch was supposed to help out, and we can't even get them to say it wasn't on purpose.
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I totally understand the concerns with OTR, Tenacity and the new Killer (i havent played her or against her but seems to be absurdly broken as far as i heard), but then again i don't get the uproar about the changes reverted.
This forum was flooded with people asking them to not go live with these changes. Reddit was flooded with people asking them to not go live with these changes. So they don't and…. everyone is mad again?
I would get it if the complains were "only" about OTR, Tenacity and the new killer, but i don't get why they also involve the changes getting reverted which is exactly what the community screamed them to do.
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I do play solo queue and I was opposed to the changes because I also play killer and I could see how busted some of the changes were from the killer perspective. Most (but to be fair, not all) of the complaints and rage against the delay of these changes has been coming from people who do not play killer and thus do not care how badly it hurts the killer experience.
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I think this is a fair complaint. I think the changes could have been implemented with some adjustments to tone them down and make them less painful for killers to deal with. Also, the OTR and Tenacity nerfs were inexplicable. Those perks were completely fine and it was yet another case of BHVR making changes that nobody was asking for.
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The forum was likewise flooded with people argumenting against the changes being pulled as well.
Though, the loudest complaints were those coming from killer players who defended their unfun playstyle with tooth and nail.I was not mad about tunneling and slugging being addressed, since being on the receiving end of that is absolutely the worst part of the game as a whole. I playtested a lot during the PTB, and I had no problem as killer in the test patch, with the anti-tunnel/anti-slug measures in place. Maybe because I don't tunnel to begin with, so I never got intentionally hit by the punishments. I did test it against bots though, and it went from a guaranteed win, to a 1-2 out for them. Completely fair if you ask me.
Granted, I do agree that some of the numbers needed a tone-down, but the system should never had been removed outright. It would have been much better to tweak it a little, released it onto live, and then fine-tune it from there. It would have caused MUCH less frustration than the current version of the patch has, since it became the inverse of what was intended.
A patch meant to deal with the most frustrating aspects of playing survivor, instead became more fuel for the frustrating things. That is the whole story.It also hasn't helped that since the PTB announcements early this month actually caused a rise in tunneling and slugging, as a form of "protest", which has made survivor gameplay absolutely miserable. The Krasue launch has also not been very helpful, due to the plethora of unnecessary buffs she got. Including the one that gave her free HugTech™ in loops.
So now you probably see why we want a system in place that finally addresses the main problem of survivor gameplay.3 -
If the RECENT complaints are loud enough that you're questioning them, then the PREVIOUS complaints weren't as "universal" as you're making them out to be. Pick a lane.
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Plenty of people wanted those changes to stay just long enough to gather data and adjust further. Tunneling and slugging have been survivors biggest pain points for 9 years , so when BHVR finally acknowledged it (and even admitted in a stream that survivors haven’t gotten much lately) players were excited. A new item, a long-requested QOL update, it was finally something fresh for the role.
But then: the fog vial item was nerfed twice in barely a week, the QOL system pulled after two days in PTB, an anti-tunnel tool nerfed, and a killer released who’s not only extremely strong but also the best tunneler in the game.
Do I think the devs are secretly plotting against survivors? No. I don’t think they genuinely want either role to suffer. But the decisions lately create the appearance of a double standard. Survivors are expected and told to “adapt” to killers like Ghoul, Clown, or Glitchtrap regardless of the unhealthy states for weeks, adapt to bugs or overtuned mechanics, but fog vials and the PTB were pulled almost instantly. Ghoul’s “kidnap tech” assumed by most to be a bug because of how strong it was, was declared intentional and left in for ages.
I feel many of the criticisms about the AFK prevention system and the anti-tunnel PTB were very similar. The original 9.0.0 AFK system was very harsh, but it made it out of PTB. Got pulled once people were getting actual penalties for things beyond their control. 9.0.1 adjustments were made and it’s back in the game. The system is still flagging some people with suspicious activity just for going down too fast, and many people are still unhappy with how lenient they feel the system to be, but at least there’s some effort being made there. The system is still in the game. It’s being monitored and tweaked and may see some continued changes. As of now, the anti-tunnel PTB has not been treated equally. Those two systems were not given the same grace, even if one was giving out actual penalties to undeserving players.
That’s the frustration: it comes across as though there are two separate standards for what each role should be expected to adapt to. And yes, many killers also need QOL, and they’ve been consistently buffed or reworked for months which is a good thing. Even if people dislike some of those changes or reworks, an effort is consistently being made. Survivors were excited to finally see that same effort, but it was cut short almost immediately.
Now people are burned out, queues are bad, and survivor frustration keeps mounting. Even if you push all this aside, it’s not too surprising people are still upset when on top of being told to just adapt they are also called incompetent and entitled for even wanting changes in the first place.
I truly hope that the system will come back soon, with the necessary changes and tweaks. But as of now it’s in “indefinite” territory, which any SM main will tell you is a truly disappointing place to be.
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I play soloq 99% of the time and the changes were horrible for killers and would have ruined alot of fun plays survivors could do as well. I wasn't a fan of the changes for either side as a result.
Some of their perk changes and basekit features were so utterly boring imo. Basekit Regression in the form of Pop was not well thought out since it tended to favor stronger killers while weaker ones wouldn't get much use; should have been passive like grim or Pain Res. Also no need to give basekit BBQ and delete the existing perk. Honestly too much to mention was bad, PTB had too much going on by having such changes along side a chapter release and a major character rework.
BHVR should have kept a few of the changes though into live. Reducing the penalty from 6 to 3 hooks would have been fine as a start. And letting survivors recover at least once for free should have been fine.
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You hit the nail on the head with the ptb version being too strong, but you're either misspeaking or showing how new you are when you say we don't have any anti tunnel, like you know basekit borrowed time used to not be a thing right? I was there for that ######### and it sucked. It was a mediocre improvement but still an improvement. Not to say we couldn't do better in terms of stuff like anti slug but the point is to moderate what we do to punish piss poor play, that's what started basekit borrowed time in the first place. Dumbasses unhooking survivors in front of killer and feeding started these protections because punishing survivors for bad unhook timing became unsustainable and killers saw that the flaw enabled them to abuse this design philosophy to tunnel and facecamp. Now that we have shields to protect against tunneling the issue shifts and now we have to be careful with how much we pump protections in fear of the pendulum swinging to the other side and making survivors the ones taking advantage of a design flaw. A lot of people want to make how well survivors and killers are faring a matter of measuring sin and who's been coddled when the real issue is a matter of incentives and vulnerabilities..
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