http://dbd.game/killswitch
Map pallet density changes are overtuned
Yes, there are some maps like Lampkin Lane that needed adjustments, but the maps now feel crowded and award survivors for lazy pallet camping or insta throws and it's not at all punishable because there's just another pallet 5 feet away. It just pushes m1 killers farther into the dumpster and incentivizes less killer diversity. Am I the only one?
Comments
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Yeah did a game as pig and it was basically kick pallet simulator
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I feel like there were too many issues related to tiles themselves.
No one asked for changes to jungle gyms, like that weird one with a god-awful window and pretty much no long(er) walls left.
Some of the maps were balanced to begin with, like the Greenville Square, Freddy Fazbear's Pizza and Ormond Lake Mine. They had enough pallet density.
Now, Haddonfield and Coldwind were the outliers that needed more pallets and less deadzones, while the rest of the maps had maybe one or two problem spots that needed to be ironed out.The swamp maps are horrible as killer now, and Macmillan has too much pallets right now.
Red Forest is okay, but the nerfing of main buildings has not been a good thing.
Might have to do a bit more playtesting of the maps, but I plan on making a new tier-list of map balance (and maybe tile types) as the current situation is.Badham, well it is still Badham.
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The only actually big issue I have now is new Azarov, Crotus and Macmmilan.I don’t know who even decided they need more pallets. People after patch really exaggerated that they became unsafe, IMO. They not god like anymore, but a good half of playable fillers were doubled.
It's not that they're "unsafe"—what makes the new RGN truly strong is that 90% of the time, you'll always have somewhere to rotate to early on. Zoning is, to put it mildly, dead on some maps. How exactly does this work? It's simple. Start combining an unsafe pallet with any nearby structure, and a 50/50 game turns into a 1/3 game. Because survivors now have many more options for changing direction. Those who try to play fillers in a vacuum, forgive me, obviously need to invest a little more in their gameplay skills.
That’s how you probably supposed trying to play new fillers?
The other issue (from survivor perspective) — did it really solve disproportionate density? I didn’t notice it. You still have utter trash on one side, and god loops on other. And the whole outcomes for both sides, especially on m1 killers now depends on RGN even more.
And we STILL have issue with map rotation. I’m honestly tired from seeing Nostromo most of my matches. I haven’t seen old Ormond as killer in months, as well as my Rebecca don’t really see RPD anymore
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As a former killer main I find it baffling that bhvr has more and more moved to a less safe higher pallet density mindset. I don't want to be playing trash fillers all the time as either side. LT's, Long walls and short walls are all great. But they keep adding in at best weird non filler tiles that are just out right weaker and m1 killer outplayable guaranteed along with a bunch of pallets so weak it's not even a 50/50 at best anymore.
Of course something like old cold wind fillers that might as well have been god pallets was too strong, but they are pulling away from the middle ground and going weaker. Unknowns release map is a prime example.
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TWD map, AKA copy paste the same rock pallet 25 times and call it a new map, is the epitome of this trend.
Same goes for the constant crying that we need to make every map the size of a small strip mall parking lot. I know its shocking but killers don't actually need to be able to patrol all 7 gens at all times. Adding one more car pallet to Haddonfield doesn't fix the fact its 30% too small and notoriously spawned horrible 3-4 gen setups BEFORE THEY SHRANK IT.
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every killer since the unknown has been overtuned, we get a couple more pallets. Get over it.
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It's not even good for you. What happens when all of these terrible filler pallets are broken? A bunch of rocks doing absolutely nothing for you. At least when a map is predominantly spawning older tiles you're left with windows to play around, now you just have to drop these trash pallets like you're playing vs clown only to have 0 game play later.
It's good for no one, watering down gameplay on both sides. Uh oh I decided to play blight again and you gotta drop every pallet because it's all connected to a 1 square meter rock and nothing else. Uh oh, these tiles are just dead now and so are you.
14 pallets with 4 tiles and half the filers being worth something is far better than 22 pallets, 80% of them being filler and 65% of those fillers being worth nothing but a pre drop that still gets you hit. Does unknowns map feel good to play on except vs low tier killers? I bet it doesn't.
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Most of those pallets are easy to get a down.
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- Yes, everyone has noticed that pallets have increased, but few have noticed that "safe" pallets, to compensate, have become less safe. I'm of the "fewer pallets but safer" philosophy. If we then consider that more than half of the killers have a mechanic that ignores or doesn't "suffer" pallets (Dracula, Artist, Huntres, Nemesis Pyramid Head, etc., etc., etc.)... in short, pallets are no longer the same as they were in 2018🤣
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Unknowns release map is a prime example.
Exactly what I mentioned in my comment. Greenville Square got absolutely obliterated in this update.
Going from a fairly balanced map to play on, with some decent jungle gym tiles and some double fillers, to now spawning the weirdest tiles and way too many double pallets.
Survivor loops got weaker, and M1 killers also got weaker, thanks to the higher pallet density.2 -
Using Greenville as an example here.
Taking the jungle-gym near shack as an example. This can now spawn as a T+L wall, with zero pallets close by. This used to be a guaranteed pallet gym before the update.
One of the weird double-pallet tiles that spawns a single (and very unsafe) pallet as well as a locker.
Hey, a normal double-pallet tile, that belongs on this map.
This is a tile that really doesn't belong here. The pseudo-God rock from MacMillan.
Another one of these weird unsafe wall spawns. This used to be a guaranteed pallet gym, on the opposite side of the map from shack.
Not from Greenville, but this weird tile can also spawn there. (the other survivors are my friends, including @For_The_People )
I genuinely hate this tile, both as killer and survivor.4 -
You're not alone. On most maps, these changes were fully unnecessary, like Macmillan or Azarov's. And yes, it rewards and caters to inexperienced survivor players who aren't skilled enough to path properly to new loops, just as the Anti Tunnel and Anti Slug would've if they went through with no changes.
The devs have recently taken a liking to buffing solo survivor players, but the problem is with these machanics is that they're strengthened and weaponized by SWFs, specifically the Basekit Tenacity and Unhook Protection changes.
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I find “long z wall” (last screenshot) kinda interesting with some potential, but everything’s else is so ridiculous
BTW, in new constructions hook can be spawn in small corridor like in 4 walls (but it’s not 4 walls, more like a weird jungle gym with extremely safe long wall window side and ridiculous pallet)
If you’ll hook survivor there, u basically cut the whole access to the window for yourself (survivor san go through btw), so it’s like some infinite. I had one game where one survivor fatshamed my killer, abusing this loop, that was probably the most weird loop experience I had in my life :/
New corner tiles are actually good, because u can buy some 10 seconds more then u were able before, dying in some comp corner
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The survivor isn't allowed any help. Killers want their easy wins. They want killers buffed to the point they can dominate solo every match and compete with swf's which are the best players. What about us solo players? Do we not deserve to have fun as survivor?
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Yeah, I don't really know what they were thinking with this. Chapel especially is absolutely terrible now.
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No pallet ever has less potential than a 50/50 unless a killer's kit specifically makes it so. Even the worst filler pallet that leads to nothing inherently has a point of interaction where it is 50/50 against any killer with zero anti-loop. The argument then becomes about whether killers should be able to bring a pallet under a 50/50, but outside of other variables (like kits/powers, positioning, or latency) potentially no pallet is weaker than that.
Honestly, with the amount of antiloop that has been spread across as many killers as it has, it might be time to consider giving a form to the rest, while upping the minimum safety of pallets across the board. If filler pallets are a 1 and god pallets are a 10, maybe we should give every killer something to work with while simultaneously starting pallet strength around a 3 or 4 at minimum. As it stands, people find different things to focus on with the topic as there is too much turbulence in regards to things like how pallet interactions should play out for either side. If nothing else, this type of normalization would help keep the minimum interaction strength to a true 50/50, though it should similarly normalize the opposite end (aka weaken god pallets slightly, like a 7 or 8) as well to keep the average in the middle.
Seems like a lot of work, but its the kind of approach that would be needed to normalize how oppressive or useless killers can be vs certain pallets. And since the ones who get dunked on the most by strong pallets tend to also be the ones who rely more on bloodlust, it would do quite a bit to hem in the extremes and allow for better balancing with pallets on a conceptual level. They might even end up being ok with god pallets staying around a 9 if the weakest killers end up less helpless against them. As it is, its hard to define 50/50's with almost any pallet because those variables like killer antiloop will always shift it in either direction.
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i can already see BHVR now. they'll revert the changes and remove even more pallets than we had previously then never address it again
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I posted this after getting irritated by pallet town on, similarly to someone else's comment, a pig match. PIG. not a good killer folks. Then forgot about it because this game has meant less and less to me with these updates. What are people gonna do to avoid playing pallet kicking simulator because baby meg can throw 50 pallets without consequences because there's another 5 ft away to carry her? not play m1 killers. Everyone complains about the new killers being overtuned and miserable to play against. If you support these changes you're also basically saying you want to see more of them because that's the reality.
I appreciate the people actually having conversations about both sides and the map changes. Nobody can tell me asylum needed more filler with a strong main on both variants. To those just crying which way or the other, that's not my intention and doesn't help literally anyone. The whole point of pallets is that they're a time limited resource. Survivor on base have much more time nowadays to spare than the killer does. Adding more time to the survivor side that isn't engaging in actual skillful gameplay for either side is not an improvement for game health
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I disagree, there are many pallets in the game now that are worse than ormond outside table pallets, just remove the longside and the is no world where a competent m1 killer gets stunned or doesn't get the hit in less than 10 seconds max. It's 100% on the killer to mess up the interaction thus meaning it's not a 50/50. Typically there is a max of 3 god pallets on a map excluding the game, it's supposed to be guaranteed safety for an amount of time. It sets an amount of strength that is reliable and knowable by both sides. god pallets are completely fine in minimal amounts, saturating maps with "1/10s" does neither side any good, they might as well be pallets designed towards comp with them wasting such little time. 1-2 god pallets, 3 good tiles, 2 weak tiles and the rest being filler tiles akin to MacMillan rock, pallet, tree, rock fillers is the best way to go by far. So essentially the autohaven and macmillan maps before they got changed 2 or 3 years ago. It's why those maps used to have their offerings used every other game by both sides, fairness and consistency.
It would be better to keep that previous standard and rework all of the terrible killers with no ability to play tiles because they lack the ability to be buffed directly without feeling extremely boring/unfair in chase. You can try your best to make fillers and gods more playable for trapper and freddy but they are the minority now, they need to be changed directly not the pallet system.
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I disagree, there are many pallets in the game now that are worse than ormond outside table pallets, just remove the longside and the is no world where a competent m1 killer gets stunned or doesn't get the hit in less than 10 seconds max.I'm sorry but thats not how 50/50s work. Again, the point of interaction, at its core, is still a 50/50 where the killer and survivor need to make a read at the same time on whether the pallet will drop in time before a hit comes out. Technically you could argue its a 33/33/33 (since trades are possible) but for all intents and purposes, that comes down to other variables like latency. I'm not talking about the context around it (including connecting tiles,) as that varies wildly. At that one moment, it is entirely dependent on who will have the server register their interaction first. I'm purposely excluding other factors because there is no consistency to them, at its very minimum, every single pallet in the game has a 50/50 outcome for that moment. Thats why I emphasized that there is a separate discussion on whether the game should stray in either direction from that pure 50/50, and ironically, how the stronger pallets get the more they rely on those other variables like anti-loop or adjacent tiles.
Typically there is a max of 3 god pallets on a map excluding the game, it's supposed to be guaranteed safety for an amount of time.Personally I see this as as much of an issue as filler pallets. You could apply the same argument to them in reverse, that they can be a 50/50 at the exact same moment as a filler pallet would, but like the filler pallet, the rest of the time it skews in one direction. This means that for any killer who does not have a way to circumvent that pallet, it is just as debilitating to said killer as a filler pallet is to survivors. Then you add on multiple factors like bloodlust being forced to reset, as well as up to 3 other players having agency while the other two force timewastes on one another, and the impact starts to grow quite a bit. Its also not reliable, as many killers have aspects of their kits that ignore even god pallets. Nurse don't care about your shack pallet unless you get the stun, making it about as effective as a filler pallet in necessitating the stun to have value.
saturating maps with "1/10s" does neither side any good, they might as well be pallets designed towards comp with them wasting such little time.I never said to saturate them, just that people wildly underrate them because they're too used to predrop and forget being the defacto approach, and that they require the most skill to utilize. Filler pallets absolutely have their uses, and i use them as a 1/10 to signify their difference in strength from god pallets, not that they're only 1/10 usable or anything like that. They are not great for either side, but they ARE the most direct point of direct interaction between the two roles. They're the closest any pallet in the game can be to a coin flip at their point of usage, especially since others like god pallets reward pre-emptive action rather than hard reads and/or reactions. My plan was also to uplift most filler pallets to become good pallets, so I don't know where that came from.
It would be better to keep that previous standard and rework all of the terrible killers with no ability to play tiles because they lack the ability to be buffed directly without feeling extremely boring/unfair in chase. You can try your best to make fillers and gods more playable for trapper and freddy but they are the minority now, they need to be changed directly not the pallet system.Thats… exactly what I said?
Honestly, with the amount of antiloop that has been spread across as many killers as it has, it might be time to consider giving a form to the rest, while upping the minimum safety of pallets across the board.I'm in complete agreement that upping the minimum value or pallets (while also adjusting their maximum value to a lesser degree) should go hand in hand with giving the lacking killers some form of anti-loop in order to normalize their abilities between the best and worst killers. Every killer should have at least some form of dealing with strong pallets, just like every pallet should have a chance of extending chase long enough to at least the next tile or two. The two are an interconnected issue that survivors and killers keep yelling past each other about because they only focus on their preferred aspect.
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Man I feel the same. Survivors who know just drop pallets after pallets and their mates do gens. If you down someone you always have a clicclic and if you can hook him, there is already 1 gen left. Seriously it's unplayable as killer now. During the match, you have maybe to break 30 pallets and i'm not far from it and deal with tiles that survs know how to make them work as much as they can.
I feel like i'm their entertainement, and they chase me.
1 solution :
less pallets AND write in the lobby that it's a pre made group. Knowing this you can leave before the match start.
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