http://dbd.game/killswitch
Here's a thought.....
if you're a survivor and go up against a camping, slugging and tunneling killer behaving this way early on in a match, let's normalize blocking them. Eventually they'll run out of survivors to go up against, assuming behavior does match you up against who've you've blocked. Maybe, just maybe.... They'll stop normalizing that type of game play. For all you killers who play this way..... If you feel the need to comment on this post to defend yourself, then so be it. People want to enjoy their game play and have the chance to improve. If we are repeatedly getting grieved by a toxic killer, it ruins the fun. It's then just a waste of time. I understand if you're down to the last couple of gens and one wants to play like that, it can be a strategy and form of game play.... But at 5 gens? Come on, no one likes to be griefed to the point of not being able to get any points or do anything in a match.
Comments
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Unfortunately, blocking players doesnt prevent you being matched with them again.
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Blocking does nothing. Unfortunately, neither does asking people to be cool because "I'm not responsible for your fun" and "I paid for this game and I can play how I want."
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BHVR will be fixing it soon. Let the killers strike. The updates coming whether they want it or not. Survivors are long due for an anti slug/tunnel and camp. The current camp system in place is worthless and the bar needs to fill up just as fast if they proxy camp.
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or learn to counter it? apparently its toxic to play the game in a way that you dont approve of. maybe i dont approve of people using pallets? that make them toxic because i find being stunned or going in a circle boring?
the killers that use tactics are playing the game, they are not doing anything against the rules, they are not griefing. Not everything is toxic and griefing just because you dont approve of it and you dont find it fun.
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No, I’m not going to do that
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recently I thought about that too and I had a pretty sound explanation for that.
See, they don't actually realize they are playing a Player versus PLAYER game. They can acknowledge that on words, nod their head and whatnot, but in reality, in their mind, they do not perceive the other party as an actual player. They believe they're actually playing a Player versus ENVIRONMENT game like lethal company, helldivers, alien isolation, prototype, whatever depending on the role.
If you make this simple assumption, suddenly every insane take they have begins to make sense.
Like, imagine you're playing some party game like aforementioned Helldivers and the enemies you're meant to beat, avoid and counter suddenly begin to show signs of self awareness.
The bots dont just get insane accuracy, damage boost or unit number increase or whatever, but they actually begin to TRY TO WIN.
They SCATTER when you launch your aoe attacks, they implement actual tactics in their warfare, they begin to bait your attacks or even go as far as to show awareness of the IN-GAME RULES. Like, they know which objectives you need to complete and actually begin playing to DENY you these objectives, they coordinate their tanks and units to hardfocus people out of position, they begin to camp your stratagems you drop on death, making you wait the cooldowns and so on.
Or like if Xenomorph in Isolation just begins playing around the backend mechanics that hint it where you can be and begins to meticulously check every hiding spot in the room it KNOWS you're at. Or it outright just camps your only objective.
You'd be very ######### upset, wouldn't you? Because the BOTS that are MEANT TO LOSE are NOT LOSING. But they arent just trying to win, they're METAGAMING. They show awareness of the ways in-game mechanics work and PLAY AROUND them just like the players would and that is simply unforgiveable.
Good news is that the main game in question (Dead By Daylight) is ALREADY DESIGNED around either side METAGAMING. It could not be perfectly balanced, but as a matter of fact, and as proven by some people that are unironically enjoying competitive gameplay, it is DESIGNED around metagaming.
Not perfectly, but the game provides ways to play around pretty much any "optimal" metagaming strategy survivors and killers can throw at each other. There is a perk, strategy or killer against every "toxic" thing the other side can do. You hate predroppers? Play a killer like kaneki. You hate looping? Play any "antiloop" killer. Hate sabo? Pyramid. Hate camping? Reassurance / Deli, trade last second. Hate tunnelling? DS/STB/etc, pull last second. Hate slugging? WGLF/UB/reset perks, stealth, split after picking if killer is close or reset, etc.
People mald about the other party trying to win and showing awareness of the rules of the GAME instead of just playing their in-game role and "going easy" on the player and that stems from this delusion they are the main character(s) in a PvE game where the other side isn't meant to win unless THEY make such blatant mistakes they themselves can't deny that.
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You mean like the 20+ perks dedicated to those things? Survivors need more?
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oh yea, please, ask for it to happen, you totally wouldnt make things worse for yourself
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Except there aren't really viable counters to most of these anymore. Most of the anti-X survivor perks have been gutted to the point they're far from optimal or they have a limit to one use. Once that use has been taken advantage of, there's no counter. Your example of pallets is comparing apples to oranges and I don't really see the relevance. Slugging, tunneling, or camping is primarily behaviour based, not really resorted to as a last-ditch effort once the survivor team has "outplayed" the killer. It seems rather clear that killers will utilize said "tactics" from the get-go, even if no generator is completed. Though on the example of pallets, once that pallet has been destroyed, there's no using it again and that loop is rendered mostly useless, save for the one new TWD chapter perk which is barely (if at all) used. Realistically, there's only a handful of strong pallets in each map anyway. Most are unsafe and it just comes down to winning a 50/50. If a survivor wants to throw every pallet in the map without a gen being done, that only makes it progressively easier for you later on. Also, you can also choose to disengage from the survivor. A survivor can't choose to disengage from a toxic-behaving killer.
It's not all on the killer though. BHVR created this tactic, strategy, behaviour, (whatever you want to call it) and have done nothing to combat it thus far. In fact, they've made it even worse with the anti-"go-next" feature. There's ample ways to combat it too that work universally between survivor and killer. Similar to your comment or point about "approval" of how someone plays the game, a lot of people make the comment about how "I can play how I want" or "this is how I have fun, I don't care if you have fun or not". With the addition of bots, there's no need for a survivor or killer player to receive a D/C penalty for a game they join to have fun if they feel the other player(s) is/are being toxic or what have you. (Yes, I realize that if a killer disconnects, no bot is added, but BHVR has this implemented in 2v8 that the concept isn't foreign and could be implemented.). Not to mention, if a survivor chooses to remain in the match and they're having no fun at all, they're more than likely going to do the bare minimum to avoid the anti-go-next, creating a negative experience for their teammates.
So TL;DR, you cannot give up or D/C without a penalty. BHVR needs to address toxic behaviour from both sides. Thus, the question or comment for BHVR really should instead be rephrased to "Why do I have to continue a match where I am having absolutely no fun just to avoid being penalized?" when the match itself already feels like a penalty AND there is already mechanics or features in place that can avoid a toxic match.
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I feel like preventing matchmaking based on number of blocks could be pretty disasterous for both ends. Putting killer aside, one survivor with a lot of blocks from killers could potentially hold up the matchmaking of the other three and it wouldn't be obvious who that survivor is. It also doesn't take in account for survivors blocking other survivors which would further complicate matchmaking even more. There's also the issue of Anonymous mode because I'm pretty sure you can't block people using that, avoiding it entirely. Even with that all worked out, Overwatch did the same thing and had to remove the system because eventually too many people were just unable to play the game and I'd argue there's a huge difference between preventing someone from playing because they broke the rules and because they play like a knob. Whether you like it or not camping, slugging and tunnelling are NOT against the rules.
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if there are no viable counters to these tactics, how do you explain other people escaping? I currently have 61% escape rate this month so far… last night i had an escape streak of 13 before i lost 2 then i won like another 4.
i dont use any anti tunnel perks, no anti slug, no anti camp perks, im soloq survivor and an average one at that, im by no means an amazing super looper or anything like that. How is it that i can escape over half my matches if there is no counter play to these unbeatable tactics? not only am i escaping but im having fun too.
"Why do I have to continue a match where I am having absolutely no fun just to avoid being penalized?" when the match itself already feels like a penalty.
To answer this question, people should ask themselves "why am i playing a game i simply dont enjoy?" As killer i might not enjoy being looped, it can be boring and tedious but i dont say survivors are toxic for going in a circle instead of from 1 end of the map to another. And i dont put the blame of this boring optimal strat at the feet of the survivors, thats part of the game and if i didnt like it that much i would not play the game anymore.
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I don't mind killers taking advantage of strategies that survivors don't like. Like people said, they're not breaking any rules.
My beef is when killers value their winrate over the balance of the game as a whole. (see latest PTB)
Survivors only have 4 perk slots, and there are way more than just 4 pain points in solo queue, even IF each issue would entirely 100% be solved by a single perk… which they aren't.
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i refer to my previous post regarding my lack of perks to counter these tactics….
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Judging by the other stats, your MMR with survivor is likely much lower so you'd be paired up with similarly ranked killers. There was a post somewhere a while ago where killers that end up resorting to the toxic behaviours are middle of the road in MMR, maybe a bit higher. With the fewer games played, ~15M BP's earned on survivor, etc., that might put you a little outside of that threshold but who knows. Also, the longest chase of 1m15s doesn't suggest you're being hard tunneled now ofc there's other factors like breaking LOS and thus breaking chase. I can confirm that with my own stats since I know I looped a killer maybe around 6-8 months ago for nearly the entirety of the match and my team got all 4 or 5 of the gens done, though my stats still read like 2 minutes. Regardless though, your MMR is probably placing you a bit behind the seriously problematic killers. Realistically, there's just a plethora of factors why your experience might be better than others and of course there is bias in that you're a killer main (based on BP scaling). My escape rate is over 60% as well, but I know that's been declining due to the sheer number of games where there's hard-tunneling/slugging/camping going on. This was not as serious of a problem say a year ago. I would not be exaggerating if I said that 4/5th's of my games are this now. Your experience can and will be different, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a problem and it needs addressing.
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we all know mmr is broken lol i do get hardcore tunnelers and sluggers. But i play stealth and i dont make silly mistakes that many people seem to do which leads to them getting tunneled and slugged.
My tactics which doesnt rely on anti tunneling/slugging perks rely on doing gens and avoiding being chased to begin with. If i do get in chase i lose line of sight or go to a loop location where the killer is more likely to abandon chase such. Also when im chase i run AWAY from the gens. the killers know they need to keep gen pressure up so tunneling me when im no where near any gens is not a good move to make. So many people run around near gens or to an unsafe loop, then someone comes up 2 sec later and unhooks when the killer hasnt even had time to get away from the hook…. i dont do that.
My main counter which usually seems to work for me is playing selfishly, if my team are stupid enough to all crowd round the killer trying to get saves and not doing gens then end up all slugged im not going to risk myself for them. Also when my team is no longer needed to do gens and open the gate….im outta there. i dont hang around and play hero like most people do (often leads to the killer pulling off a 4k at the end from nothing when they go for last saves)
IF my mmr is a factor then it makes sense being im soloq so would have lower mmr than swf teams might have, however swf have advantages i dont have so they should be able to withstand the extra pressure of being tunneled and slugged.
Like i said, there are ways to counter these things if people know how and willing to change their style of play which many people are not willing to do that. excuse the pun but people are so hooked on the 1 playstyle of "loop loop loop, gens are boring so i want to chases" they dont seem to adapt.
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It wouldn't do much, but also, I expect it to become less tunnelly/campy/sweaty once survivors feel the number of krasue's go down and they feel less of a need to bring the lock in perks opposed to the ones they just kinda like. Once the killer playerbase feels the full force of the meta less, they will hopefully chill and the tight balance we had around the springtrap update will return.
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My issue is when killers get stuck in Wrath Mode and torment survivors because they see every little action as a personal offense/attack. I just watched a streamer for two hours and every single game I saw him play he camped the first two people hooked and then slugged the last two and let them bleed out because in his head they'd wronged him somehow. As far as survivors go, when they just don't leave after steamrolling the killer, that's annoying but they can be chased out.
Edit: I meant camped and tunneled the first two people, and by tunneled I mean he went for the same person right off the hook every time they were unhooked until they died.2 -
There are players I would love to avoid that play precisely as mentioned in the original post.
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Try getting that kind of escape rate without the meta perks 😉
This is the build I run on Sable, but I also share it with other survivors too.
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Slugging epidemic is primarily balancing and design problem, not a community one.
Leaving people on the ground at least temporarily is a completely normal tactic generally speaking, as it dodges potential saves or immediet oppertunities at hitting someone else. Downside being the risk of the survivor just being picked up, resulting in you losing a potential hook or in some cases your snowball completely falling apart.
The issue however is that there are so many punishments or counters to the killer picking up or hooking available to survivors that it is more often actually more strategically sound to just leave people on the ground. Why risk the higher odds of a pickup/hook becoming pointless with no reward when you can just leave the survivor there and get back to work?
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i think i will stick to my meta build lol. i used to go full gen build because i could never rely on my team doing gens but since the nerf i dont run built to last and streetwise anymore. I adapted just fine 😊
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