RAGE - Soft solution to gen rush/camping/tunneling
RAGE
RAGE is a new mechanic designed to be a soft solution to gen rushing, tunneling, and camping. It is meant to encourage players to AVOID these tactics, however it does not actively punish them, which is why I am calling it a soft solution. If you want to gen rush/camp or tunnel you can but it will come with a risk now.
-The RAGE meter fills up by 40% each time a generator is completed. This meter will regress at 1 c/s. RAGE becomes active when the meter reaches 100%.
-Once RAGE is activated, the killer can mori any survivor that repaired more than a total of 40% of all completed generators. This rule is ignored if the generator that activated RAGE also powers the Exit Gates.
-RAGE lasts until the meter is fully depleted. Using RAGE will instantly deplete the entire meter. RAGE depletes 50% faster for each survivor on a hook.*
-When a generator on the map is over 90% complete, the RAGE meter will flash red for survivors only.
-Survivors affected by RAGE will see a special symbol around their HUD icon. Survivors cannot see the RAGE status of other survivors. Killers cannot see the RAGE status of survivors.
-RAGE will be completely deactivated when a survivor dies.
-RAGE is disabled if the killer offers an Ivory or Ebony Memento Mori. However, the meter will still fill/deplete to keep the offering secret.
*(Alternative - RAGE depletes by 20% each time a survivor is hooked.)
EXPLANATION:
Basically RAGE is a meter based mechanic that will sway with the flow of the game and act as a sort of speed limiter to prevent games from going by too fast, either from gen rushing or from camping/tunneling. While it's more to slow the former, it has some checks in place to slow down the latter as well.
Is it perfect? No. That's part of why I'm posting it. The other part of why I'm posting is because @Giddawid has taken a more active role on the forums, and I had this idea floating around in my head for a while so I just figured 'screw it let's make a post about it'. I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, I'm just throwing it out to see what people think. If you want to come here and ######### on my idea ok, but I'm just trying to come up with alternative solutions to the generic "add another objective" or "punish killers for doing X" sort of thing.
I would like to explain the details of each part, but I'm feeling lazy so if you want to know WHY something is just ask please. I can explain reasons for everything.
Comments
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I dont like this idea at all.
Its the same as the emblem punishment for camping.Why are you punished for completing your objective?
Fix the underlying core mechanics instead of introducing bandaid fix
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@Master said:
I dont like this idea at all.
Its the same as the emblem punishment for camping.Why are you punished for completing your objective?
Fix the underlying core mechanics instead of introducing bandaid fix
It's not punished for completing the objective. It's a risk for completing the objective. There is a difference. You can still gen rush, there is nothing stopping you, but there is a risk to doing it. And if you want to rush a gen and then avoid the killer for 100 seconds until RAGE is gone that is an option too.
If the killer has someone hooked the meter tics faster, so if the killer is actually keeping up with survivors then RAGE has less of a presence. If they want to camp, well survivors have more freedom to rush gens. If they want to tunnel, well they likely can't use RAGE on the first guy they catch since that guy hasn't done gens. If they kill that guy they lose RAGE.
I guess you could have it so that when killer gets a hook it takes away a flat amount from the RAGE meter instead of making it tic faster, but the idea is that if you are getting hooks as killer then you have less of a chance to activate RAGE and therefore there is less risk to survivors that focus on gens.
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So it sounds like a reward for bad play but ALSO a powerup when you get Genrushed. If you're having a hard time catching and hooking people and the Gens are going by fast you suddenly get the ability to Mori someone and that will slow down the game.
This ability will have no effect if you as the Killer are actually doing a good job, you won't get Rage because you're constantly hooking and kicking Gens, no reason to be angry so no Mori. And this makes the Mori offerings relevant and still makes Rancor useable.
I really like this, this will help out Killers SO much and it willalso let the Killer know who isn't pulling their weight, if they can't Mori a Survivor then they know that Survivor is not doing Gens and they aren't important. I would like this a lot, evn if they don't use it as a core mechanic, imagine this as a perk or a new Killer.
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@HatCreature said:
So it sounds like a reward for bad play but ALSO a powerup when you get Genrushed. If you're having a hard time catching and hooking people and the Gens are going by fast you suddenly get the ability to Mori someone and that will slow down the game.This ability will have no effect if you as the Killer are actually doing a good job, you won't get Rage because you're constantly hooking and kicking Gens, no reason to be angry so no Mori. And this makes the Mori offerings relevant and still makes Rancor useable.
I really like this, this will help out Killers SO much and it willalso let the Killer know who isn't pulling their weight, if they can't Mori a Survivor then they know that Survivor is not doing Gens and they aren't important. I would like this a lot, evn if they don't use it as a core mechanic, imagine this as a perk or a new Killer.
Yes pretty much. And there are checks and balances in place to prevent killers from abusing it. Basically RAGE is only in effect when survivors want to gen rush. But at the same time, it doesn't physically stop them from gen rushing so if you are a ballsy survivor group you can gen rush and take the risk anyway.
Basically it's a comeback mechanic for killer, as I feel like they are most in need of this. And it wouldn't really affect low rank survivors since they likely won't be doing gens fast enough to activate RAGE, and because killers at low ranks tend to kill people quick so they lose RAGE easily.
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Once RAGE is activated, the killer can mori any survivor that repaired more than a total of 40% of all completed generators.
Here is a problem in measuring contribution of completed generators: What if a completed generator has previously regressed?
It would need a separate tracking mechanic at measuring generator contribution to completed generators, which is different from plain generator progression (whether actually anything has progressed or not in the end).For example:
2 people do 25% of a generator. This generator regressed by 50%. player 3 now does 50% of the generator up to 75%, which regresses back to 50%. Player 4 completes the last 100%.It is possible to track people's progression towards a generator by making people's progression decrease equally, but that also has to be a separate mechanic built in to measure such a thing.
When tracking someone's contribution to completed generators, that'd mean that after 2.5 Generators the Rage mechanic would kick in.
If you wouldn't track contribution than it could kick in at 0 completed generators, meaning that the mechanic would do more than it was supposed to do.Generally as a result of this mechanic, you'd be able to mori 1 player per game. (Assuming without hooking).
(Correct me if I'm wrong)I think that will lead to negative experiences on the survivor's side, who feel like they've been unfairly treated.
I wouldn't want to see this mechanic in it's current state, though I find one of points you made in your second comments genius:
If they want to tunnel, well they likely can't use RAGE on the first guy they catch since that guy hasn't done gens.
The idea, which I like about the Rage mechanic, is that a survivor's value (and thus priority) increases the more they have done in the match, meaning a survivor that has only been chased wouldn't have that value.
If you could build more on that aspect of the Rage mechanic, then it might turn into something really helpful, especially on the subject of tunnelling.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Here is a problem in measuring contribution of completed generators: What if a completed generator has previously regressed?AFAIK the Lightbringer emblem already kind of works this way. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if you do work on a gen that is later regressed you lose those points. So in a way RAGE could be tied to the emblem in some way, at least for tracking the generator progress.
But you also have to consider that RAGE only counts completed gens. If that is the case, then it would only count progress you contributed to completing that gen. So if you technically do enough on gens that aren't finished, even if RAGE is triggered, you would be unaffected anyway until those gens are also completed.
Bottom line, it needs testing. I'm just presenting the concept here.
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Reading this only reminds me of Jason in F13.... if that's where you got this idea please go back to playing that... I know that game just released a patch buffing Jason soo0
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@Bravo0413 said:
Reading this only reminds me of Jason in F13.... if that's where you got this idea please go back to playing that... I know that game just released a patch buffing Jason sooNever played the game. Honestly do not care for it.
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AFAIK the Lightbringer emblem already kind of works this way. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if you do work on a gen that is later regressed you lose those points. So in a way RAGE could be tied to the emblem in some way, at least for tracking the generator progress.
I originally discovered the contribution problem with generators and regression when thinking of solutions to creating competitive emblem systems.
In farming games, in my experience, everyone was able to max out on Lightbringer if the killer also regressed generators as to make it as if there were more (Normally you'd have to do about 2.7 gens individually which should make maxing out impossible for all 4 players), which is why I think they don't have that system in place yet.
But creating such a system for the Rage mechanic might not have to be too over-exuberant, as it has multiple uses, including helping solving certain emblem issues.
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Why not camp the first hook and either they come to you and do no gens or they do gens and you get to mori them, yeah seems like a really good plan to stop nothingthesuicidefox said:RAGE
RAGE is a new mechanic designed to be a soft solution to gen rushing, tunneling, and camping. It is meant to encourage players to AVOID these tactics, however it does not actively punish them, which is why I am calling it a soft solution. If you want to gen rush/camp or tunnel you can but it will come with a risk now.
-The RAGE meter fills up by 40% each time a generator is completed. This meter will regress at 1 c/s. RAGE becomes active when the meter reaches 100%.
-Once RAGE is activated, the killer can mori any survivor that repaired more than a total of 40% of all completed generators. This rule is ignored if the generator that activated RAGE also powers the Exit Gates.
-RAGE lasts until the meter is fully depleted. Using RAGE will instantly deplete the entire meter. RAGE depletes 50% faster for each survivor on a hook.*
-When a generator on the map is over 90% complete, the RAGE meter will flash red for survivors only.
-Survivors affected by RAGE will see a special symbol around their HUD icon. Survivors cannot see the RAGE status of other survivors. Killers cannot see the RAGE status of survivors.
-RAGE will be completely deactivated when a survivor dies.
-RAGE is disabled if the killer offers an Ivory or Ebony Memento Mori. However, the meter will still fill/deplete to keep the offering secret.
*(Alternative - RAGE depletes by 20% each time a survivor is hooked.)
EXPLANATION:
Basically RAGE is a meter based mechanic that will sway with the flow of the game and act as a sort of speed limiter to prevent games from going by too fast, either from gen rushing or from camping/tunneling. While it's more to slow the former, it has some checks in place to slow down the latter as well.
Is it perfect? No. That's part of why I'm posting it. The other part of why I'm posting is because @Giddawid has taken a more active role on the forums, and I had this idea floating around in my head for a while so I just figured 'screw it let's make a post about it'. I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, I'm just throwing it out to see what people think. If you want to come here and ######### on my idea ok, but I'm just trying to come up with alternative solutions to the generic "add another objective" or "punish killers for doing X" sort of thing.
I would like to explain the details of each part, but I'm feeling lazy so if you want to know WHY something is just ask please. I can explain reasons for everything.
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@Paddy4583 said:
Why not camp the first hook and either they come to you and do no gens or they do gens and you get to mori them, yeah seems like a really good plan to stop nothingIf the guy dies on hook you lose RAGE completely. They can do 2 gens then have to make a save. If they want to keep going they simply need to wait. Plus you lose RAGE faster when you get hooks, which means they can do more gens sooner.
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Huh? Why would the survivors care if the killer loses rage, it doesn’t make sense, seems like the killer gets punished for their objective and survivors reward the killer for doing theirs.thesuicidefox said:@Paddy4583 said:
Why not camp the first hook and either they come to you and do no gens or they do gens and you get to mori them, yeah seems like a really good plan to stop nothingIf the guy dies on hook you lose RAGE completely. They can do 2 gens then have to make a save. If they want to keep going they simply need to wait. Plus you lose RAGE faster when you get hooks, which means they can do more gens sooner.
Id camp the hook and let the rage build if they are doing gens, and if they aren’t doing gens I still win, and if they swarm the hook I still win. The only way this seems to be of any use is if no hooks get made and the gens are done and at best you get to Mori one survivor, I don’t get how this would stop anything you’ve suggested it would stop0 -
@Paddy4583 said:
Huh? Why would the survivors care if the killer loses rage, it doesn’t make sense, seems like the killer gets punished for their objective and survivors reward the killer for doing theirs.Id camp the hook and let the rage build if they are doing gens, and if they aren’t doing gens I still win, and if they swarm the hook I still win. The only way this seems to be of any use is if no hooks get made and the gens are done and at best you get to Mori one survivor, I don’t get how this would stop anything you’ve suggested it would stop
If killer loses RAGE then they can't mori you and thus it isn't even a factor in the game. If you kill someone via camping/tunneling, RAGE is disabled for the rest of the game.
You don't seem to understand. If you get a hook you lose some RAGE, which gives survivors the opportunity to complete more gens. RAGE also tics down over time, so if they decide to not do gens and swarm the hook then you are also indirectly losing RAGE because it tics down and they aren't doing gens to replenish it. You also don't get to mori just any survivor, only the ones that contributed to completing gens. So one counter play tactic would be to designate one survivor as the rescuer and they do no gens. If we assume the first person you catch didn't do any gens either and was just chased from near the start of the game, then you can only use RAGE on 2 survivors. If they rush gens and give you RAGE you have to go out and find one of the 2 survivors that did gens, meaning you can't just camp. And because RAGE basically requires 3 gens to pop very close together, if they hide and you lose RAGE then that's it you won't get it back. On top of the fact that if you catch/hook the non-gen rushers you also lose RAGE.
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The whole point of a survivor is to do gens and get the hell out of dodge. It’s just not a good idea. One hit killers with a mori offering can do what you’re suggesting the whole game and they will still camp and tunnel.thesuicidefox said:@Paddy4583 said:
Huh? Why would the survivors care if the killer loses rage, it doesn’t make sense, seems like the killer gets punished for their objective and survivors reward the killer for doing theirs.Id camp the hook and let the rage build if they are doing gens, and if they aren’t doing gens I still win, and if they swarm the hook I still win. The only way this seems to be of any use is if no hooks get made and the gens are done and at best you get to Mori one survivor, I don’t get how this would stop anything you’ve suggested it would stop
If killer loses RAGE then they can't mori you and thus it isn't even a factor in the game. If you kill someone via camping/tunneling, RAGE is disabled for the rest of the game.
You don't seem to understand. If you get a hook you lose some RAGE, which gives survivors the opportunity to complete more gens. RAGE also tics down over time, so if they decide to not do gens and swarm the hook then you are also indirectly losing RAGE because it tics down and they aren't doing gens to replenish it. You also don't get to mori just any survivor, only the ones that contributed to completing gens. So one counter play tactic would be to designate one survivor as the rescuer and they do no gens. If we assume the first person you catch didn't do any gens either and was just chased from near the start of the game, then you can only use RAGE on 2 survivors. If they rush gens and give you RAGE you have to go out and find one of the 2 survivors that did gens, meaning you can't just camp. And because RAGE basically requires 3 gens to pop very close together, if they hide and you lose RAGE then that's it you won't get it back. On top of the fact that if you catch/hook the non-gen rushers you also lose RAGE.
Most survivors don’t want to play a game of hide and seek while they wait for some timer to deplete so they can’t be downed, who needs that when The HEX for this already exists, because that’s pretty much your idea a built in HEX that already exists, with rules that stop killers playing how they choose, with a pretty pitiful pay off.0 -
@Paddy4583 said:
The whole point of a survivor is to do gens and get the hell out of dodge. It’s just not a good idea. One hit killers with a mori offering can do what you’re suggesting the whole game and they will still camp and tunnel.Hence why mori offerings disable RAGE.
Most survivors don’t want to play a game of hide and seek while they wait for some timer to deplete so they can’t be downed, who needs that when The HEX for this already exists, because that’s pretty much your idea a built in HEX that already exists, with rules that stop killers playing how they choose, with a pretty pitiful pay off.
The killer doesn't get a one shot, just the ability to mori and ONLY IF the survivor did enough gens to be affected. If survivors spend time being immersed then they aren't spending time doing gens. That gives the killer a chance to catch more survivors, which is the ultimate goal here. If they hide the whole time and the killer never finds anyone, it's still a bit of a win for killer because the game slowed down.
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