http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why do they never address why killers actually tunnel ?
The devs keep bringing up that tunneling, camping and slugging are unhealthy parts of the game, but never why they accure. A big component as to why these situations happen is because the killer role just doesn´t have enough tools to combat things like fast gen speeds, rapid healing speeds or just purely unbalanced maps.
When are tool boxes going to be addressed ?
I think the biggest reason for tunneling is gens speeds and that the average killer mathematically can not keep up with a commodious tool box and addons like Socket swivels, Wire spool and Brand new part. If you´ve ever played on EU servers then you probably know the dread of seeing a tool box or two in your lobby as killer and going against multiple brand new parts leaving you with no option but to tunnel. Not to mention that even if a survivor doesn´t have a tool box they are going to spawn next to a generator and can instantly start working on it (that is if you don´t have corrupt intervention or mobility), which puts the killer at a severe disadvantage.
When are healing speeds going to be addressed ?
In the recent developer stream they have mentioned that they are going to look at addons like syringes and styptics, but that still doesn´t change the fact that a lot of healing perks this year got massively buffed making strategies like hit&run way less impactful. While antiheal perks like sloppy butcher and franklins got heavely nerfed. Which leads killers to do the next best thing, which is tunneling and camping.
Are there any options even left ?
If the antitunnel, camp and slugging changes go through I don´t think the killer has any option but to, well play like a bot. Just instakick the freshly added 20 pallets to every map and go after the first survivor you see. Which at that point why not impelement killer bots into normal matches because to be frank, I doubt anyone is going to play a role with no agency and no choices to choose from. An opinion which is already being echoed by content creators taking breaks from playing killer.
Comments
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All these changes are so unnecessary when a comm system for survivors would fix everything and killers could play how they wanted.
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A short, of the top of my head, list of "reasons that killers tunnel", since about 6.1.0:
- Gen speeds
- Dead hard
- DS
- Dead hard again
- Circle of healing
- Prove thyself
- BNP
- Medkits
- Maps are too big
- Tile chaining
- Pallets are too strong
- MfT
- Survivors are playing healthy (too many health states)
- Survivors are playing injured (just doing gens)
- Distortion (can't find anyone)
Every one of these has been addressed, and each time the goal post moves again. Because tunneling itself is the problem and the cause.
why they occur
Tunneling is a base kit comeback mechanic that is always available and has no downside for using it immediately as the game starts. It is simpler to execute for the killer than it is to counter for survivors, making it highly effective.
Tunneling at 5 gens is not a response to anything. In fact, doing so makes gen speeds worse, because the killer has decided to force the game to be a race: put all of their attention on one player and leave 3 others to do gens. The match becomes a race to see if 3-4 gens are finished before the killer can get 3 hooks on the same person to eliminate them.
When it works, the killer wins.
When it doesn't work, people post like this: complaining about the flavor if the month, or defaulting to "gen speeds". Even if "doesn't work" is one match out of an entire game session.
And, clearly, the killer community does not allow BHVR to actually address this issue, so it will not get better.
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They are adressing it like most used addons by just nerfing it to make it less viable and hoping people will choise other addons (playstyles) but even when they nerf it they are still best addons for use ( tunneling,sluging).
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Tile chaining and pallet strength has not been addressed or if it has it keeps flip-flopping like the strenght of maps like haddonfield. And even tunneling at 5 gens can be combated by having survivors taking hits for the teammate being tunneled effectively giving them multiple health states or just not unhooking them immediately and letting them stay on the hook which was encouraged the devs themselves on yesterdays stream.
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What anti-tunnel? Like what's happening in this proposal that will stop you from tunnelling? Hit them right off hook and it's the same as it is now. Maintain LoS and you'll get them again. There are zero penalties proposed for tunnelling. These measures are outrageously soft. Medkits are likely getting nerfed yet the crying has already begun.
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Because none of those things are the true reason why Killers tunnel. The true reason why Killers tunnel is because it's incredibly easy to do, requires very little, if any skill, and it's extremely rewarding. For Survivors, it takes an insane amount of skill and coordination to counter, the latter of which is way easier said than done in solo queue.
BHVR tried to address that in the last PTB, and I'm sure I don't need to remind you how that went.
So now the question remains, when will BHVR address the true reasons for tunneling? Given what they revealed in yesterday's stream, I'm convinced the answer will be never.
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You are just metioning most problematic features and states for killers but whole reason and the base of it its different. When you dont tunnel and spread hooks it costs killer more time with threat of giving survivors strong perks lekd dead hard which against teams that do gens effectively is very punishing and cam be only compansated by fast chases with strong meta build full of best perks in form of slowdown and regression so gen deffence mostly.
If you want for tunneling to be less effective and used you not only need to adress it as for survivors giving them better deffence in form as antitunnel and for killer punishing him with stronger basekit features survivors have like stronger antitunnel and some tunneling punishments (like those that were in last ptb, they were overtuned but not that bad ideas) but to reward him for not doing it in some form of benefits which more bp and 15 seconds of bloodlust wont do it because what are more bp when yoj will loose more and speec buff that more than half of killers (from strongest to even weakest) wont get any benefit.
Look if you want somethinv for someone and for him to prefer it from something that is easier and more effective (tunneling slugging) you just cant punish him for it but benefit him for not doing it and thats whole point now tunneling is harder but still needed the same and even more maybe than before and nothing will change, people will just adapt by playing stronger killers which can play without it or doesnt care and weaker ones will be just loosing simulator.
Like it or not people like truetalent are saying this since 2022 and nothing changed.
Live exsample when I will want from you to sort plastic waste and not that its easier for you to just throw it in normal garbage with all things than I will have to make not only harder for you to do so but reward you for doing it as making your waste fee cheaper and not mor expensive plus donate you garbage bin for plastic so you are motivated to do it, its cheaper for you that you spend your time and sort plastic waste from normal waste and not only sanction you for not doing it but not give you benefit for doing it like cheaper waste fee with free bins and in reality it more better for you to just not sort plastic waste because its more expensive to do it than pay the sanction for not sorting plastic waste.
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Tunnelling is done because it is optimal.
Even if gens took 1000s each, killers would still tunnel because it is the fastest, easiest and most effective way to win. Arguing that killers are strongarmed into tactics that survivors find unfun is pointless because killers tunnel in matches without toolboxes. They tunneled even when killer was at its strongest in recent times, during Genkick.
I understand the issue with toolboxes. But you should fix them because they're too good at altering match durations, not because it'll supposedly reduce tunnelling. Ditto with medkits - fix them because they punish leaving survivors too heavily.
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Tile chaining, maps, and pallets were addressed over two years. Weaker pallets, reduces tile spawn chance, smaller maps, were absolutely part of conscious balance changes…by community request.
The recent pallet rework was an attempt to undo the major damage they did to maps as part of that, and, like usual, they went to far there too.
Similar thing happens with health states.
I never said tunneling is completely uncounterable or impossible, but it takes coordination and the right perk combinations, on top of RNG with maps, spawns, and matchmaking, to even attempt it.
Coordination and good RNG are absolutely not core game features. Even "the right perks" have been nerfed also.
I don't pick my teammates, and even if I did, that's yet another thing players complain about also.
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Someone in end game chat once said they tunnelled someone for blast mine and it ended up being the wrong person. People get tunneled for user names and cosmetics. It's easy and available and most survivors are powerless to stop it. That's why they do it—because they can, and nothing is stopping them. These changes won't either.
Post edited by cogsturning on16 -
The majority of survivors from what îve seen cannot survive a chase longer rhan 30 seconds (not exactly 30 bur you get the point). if the survivor can actually loop well then you’d better hope you find another survivor quick otherwise you’ll lose trying to tunnel out the good survivor. anyways, Why would the killer not tunnel this survivor if his teammates are hiding and focusing gens? Fact is even then camping and tunneling a single survivor out the whole game is a horrible strat if the survivors arent stupid. Feels like based on some of these responses I’m playing a different game.
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Okay, so what if BHVR decides to send toolboxes and medkits the way of the fog vial?
'killers will stop tunnelling!'
Will they? Or will they take away from this that if they tunnel, they get buffs? Because if BHVR keeps bending over backwards to make your gameplay easier every time someone complains about what you're doing, that sure seems like an incentive to do it even more, to me!
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All it takes is a medkit with addons or for the tunneled survivor to just lead the killer to the other survivors to divert the killers focus, it´s not that hard. And with the pallet density update half of the maps have good RNG. Also if you don´t pick your teammates in solo queue then that´s on you. There´s a reason why survivor tier lists and stereotypes exist and why a lot of the time an average solo queue lobby has frequent lobby dodging.
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I didn´t make this post as a suggestion to stop tunneling rather pointing out the disparity between killers and my believed cause behind it. I don´t even think removing tunneling, slugging or proxy camping is possible without ruining the role entirely. I´m rather just saying what I believe the reason is to why weaker killers resolve to these strategies.
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Survivors bring toolboxes because every killer is stacking four slowdowns (which continue to give value even in a 3v1 after they tunnel someone out).
They bring healing builds because all they ever see is top tier killers with high mobility and strong chase powers, so teammates last microseconds in chase and there is no time to heal normally.
Also, bear in mind that progress bar simulator (ie. gens and healing) is incredibly boring. Anything that speeds them up is automatically desirable. It's nice for killers because they are constantly engaged in the gameplay, while survivors have large stretches of downtime (especially if the killer is only chasing one survivor).
And the pallet update was a few weeks ago. Tunneling has been a problem for quite a bit longer than that.
You are also ignoring the causes, only looking at the symptoms.
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Add-ons that are almost certainly getting nerfed. And have you been tunneled? The killers who've decided to do it completely ignore survivors who literally hurl themselves onto their knives. I've been slugged trying to save someone many times and the killer just leaves me there and goes after their original target. I've had all three teammates try to break their focus off me to no avail. People determined to hard tunnel with do it if they want to.
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I got timed out in last nights community stream because I was gobsmacked on what I was hearing and I said 'more evidence you guys don't play your own game, I think it's unprofessional' That's all I said. They silenced me because I though everything they were planning on doing I thought was unprofessional. I wouldn't class that as an attack, which obviously they thought it was. but everyone screaming for shirtless characters is way more important right ? I'll never have an opinion regarding the game anywhere again. It's best like that. You either get attacked by the community or silenced my the devs. It really isn't worth it. They cherry pick passion they want for the game.
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Yes I have been there and I got picked up within 5 second of being downed and then my teammate went to take another protection hit to rest bloodlust and to make sure the tunneled guy makes it to another pallet
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The biggest reason why killers tunnel is because its been the easiest way to bypass the entire meta strategy of managing the match and guarantee an easy win. The best way to address it is to nerf tunneling until its not the 100% most obvious way to guarantee an easy win.
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I don't know what reality you live in, but if the killer has decided to tunnel someone, they absolutely WILL tunnel that someone out, regardless of what teammates do to help the poor sod.
SoloQ amplifies this problem even more. You can't really pick your teammates in soloQ3 -
- Exactly what you wrote. Because now the pallets will be reduced, then the syringes will be nerfed... each time the bar is raised towards a new objective. Every mechanic is the cause of defeat, every event is an excuse to legitimize tunneling. It's starting to get ridiculous. It's obvious that the game needs to find its balance, but never blame yourself and your own skills... What I find truly absurd is that the "Solo Q", the truly weak part of this game, is ultimately the one that complains the least (and it would have every right to). I would like to remind the BHVR company that Solo Q is also part of this mechanism, it buys characters and skins (therefore a source of profit) and it does not deserve to be ignored. For years people have been asking for a simple "dialogue wheel", or to see the perks of their teammates (information that SWF always has) ... no the priority is to nerf the fog vials
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They kind of did address toolboxes with the streetwise nerf as it was one of those perks that made commodius so obnoxious.
I kind of think they just serve their purpose now, I'd argue hyperfocus + Stake out is more problematic but with the S-tier TR increase to 40m, that's probably the biggest issue. Quite frankley they deserve it.0 -
Start calling it out like it is though, Killers tunnel because the game favors SWF and the Killer, at base, treats every match from the jump as if they're facing a SWF. That is why they tunnel, slug and camp. It's the easiest thing to do that nets the best results, which is overkill for SoloQ since they lack coordination and often stomps SWF because it takes immense coordination to negate it. Simply lumping SoloQ and SWF together is dishonest and needs to stop or BHVR will never achieve any semblance of balance.
Yea, gen speeds go by too fast, so why don't they impose repair speed penalties for SWF depending on how many are in the SWF, so gens take longer for them. Oh look, they are all stacking meta perks along with their ultra discord coordination, so why not prevent SWF from repeating the same perks, everyone in the party must use different perks. Those two changes alone would mellow out SWF and attempt to bridge the Grand Canyon gap between SWF and SoloQ, then Killers can be adjusted accordingly.
I honestly cannot see why BHVR caters to, what they claim through stats, is the minority of Surv players and why people in this community seem so blind to the actual root cause of these issues.
-1 -
For a lot of people these days using their brain hurts because they barely use theirs.
They want things made easier instead of the good old combo dedication+thinking+learning = improvement.
With that being said I too think tunnel will never die because it will always be the most braindead way a killer can win a match.
BUT there are a lot of killer players, like myself, that recognize this and don't do it because we want to earn our victory through the combo I've mentioned above. Much more satisfying.
The few times survs force my hand to tunnel some of them hard or else I would lose, in 85% of these matches I have to because a surv that don't want to improve in chase, doesn't want to learn the counterplay for the killer I'm playing and even predict what I'm about to do based of studying my behavior during the match brought the equivalent of tunnel as their build/strategy: Gen Rush.
And if this is still not clear enough:
Turbo tunnel (tunnel someone as soon as the match starts no mater the number of gens ) = Most efficient way for the killer to achieve his objective.
Gen Rush = Most efficient way for survs to achieve their objective.
Both are braindead and both need to die.-10 -
Your argument assumes killers only tunnel after being forced into a losing position and having no alternative. This blatantly isn't true.
Most players do not mind being tunneled out if the game is almost over. There are survivors who will throw a fit but these are the type of players who throw a temper tantrum no matter what happens. So they can be ignored.
The tunneling players hate is when it happens early. Sometimes you spawn in at a really bad location. You try to move to a better one but the killer had Lethal Persuer and caught you out. The only resources nearby are unsafe 50/50s and you go down early. Then immediately after getting unhooked the killer is back on you while you're still in unsafe territory. It's 5 gens left and you're death hook while the killer is proxy camping for the kill. There's nothing survivors can realistically do to stop this.
Sure this isn't every example of tunneling but it's scenarios like these that make people quit. Games with early tunneling are absolutely miserable and unfun. And any game having a consistently unfun play pattern is unacceptable. If a game is routinely unfun people stop playing.
The only point you were correct on is that killers tunnel to win. And winning is irrelevant if nobody enjoys playing the game.
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So you nerf every person in a party, even those who aren't on comms and aren't coordinated, since the game can't tell the difference between casual friends goofing off and SWAT teams , and now you just have all survivors being equally miserable. All this would do is discourage loose friends from partying up.
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The reasons killers tunnel is because they're given the means, motive, and opportunity to do so.
Motive is obvious. 3v1 tilts the game absurdly in their favor with basically any number of gens left because survivors simply do not have enough hands to make consistent progress without the killer doing something that wastes an unusual amount of time, whether that's a very long chase or being unable to find a survivor.
Means is easy. Survivors come off the hook vulnerable with very limited protections that can be waited out or powered through. This is where BHVR has been focusing their efforts; providing more protections on unhook.
Opportunity is also given, and feeds off the camping issue. Unhook notifications make this easy, as does camping. Mobility killers in particular have the ability to rush straight back to the hook, but any killer that is camping likewise has it.
In my opinion, rather than focusing on protecting unhooked survivors, it would be far FAR healthier for the game to remove or minimize the opportunity to tunnel in the first place. There are already plenty of mechanics for this in the first place. 2v8/Pyramid Cages both move the hooked survivor far away and do not reveal their aura. Opportunity to protect the hook or immediate act on unhook is severely lessened and so unhook protections are significantly less necessary. And there's code in the game (Pinhead's box) for IDing parts of the map far away from both survivors and killer. Just doing that, teleporting a hooked survivor away, would severely hinder early tunnelling. Then turn it off after (eg) two gens are done to stop it from being something that can be done as soon as the match starts.
But there are other approaches as well. For example, you could set a hard minimum and maximum time limit to matches and then take a sledgehammer to all strategies that accelerate (or stall) matches to an unhealthy degree, gen rush/stall, tunnelling/hiding, etc. Or change the entire thing to a point-based "please the entity" system. There are options, especially could be tested in an LTM. But BHVR has been timid at best, and are still struggling even with technical fixes.
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as a tunneling killer myself i can honestly say without tunneling there is no way i could win with certain killers.
Why is it incredibly easy to do? survivors make it easy. (specifically solo players) they unhook too soon often right next to the killer, they dont do gens, the try to play too altruistic, they let themselves be seen, chased and tunneled, they hook heal or dont heal at all, they cant loop and go down in seconds. Again, as killer im not getting 100% kill rate with tunneling, far from it, which means people are countering it.
im soloq and i dont have any coordination with my team or huge amounts of skill and i counter it just fine. i have a multitude of examples but last night bubba DC'ed because they couldnt catch me. tonight a clown and pyramid head DC'ed because they couldnt catch me and other survivor.
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Tunnel doesn’t need to have specific reasons. Until you aren’t targeting the person by some ridiculous motivation like “sable used head on”, it’s just the way how people play. As much as some gen rush, stealth or sfwing
Devs could think how encourage more survivor’s player behaviour that naturally reacts to the behavior of killers. Maybe more stealthy way of play. Maybe a system that provides intuitiveness around saves. Maybe making rescues everytime possible by map redesign and adjusting to mechanics.
These changes just catering to specific vision. You won’t be able satisfy them anyway because their sole desire isn’t about compromises in this term, they want punishment for people as soon as they don’t match their vision of how you supposed to play the game, so they seek solutions in mechanic changes. They can keep asking for this, devs can’t do this, because on their ground they have to satisfy both
It’ll be pushed to live, people will be pissed off anyway. So they’ll be forced to somehow either cancel it, or continue this miserable circus aka “don’t play like this it’s toxic ew”. And if it’ll be another casual killer on steroids that can be played by the most brainded way possible I assume it’s just a consequences when both devs and community obsessed with idea to indulge wants over needs. I don’t expect people to stop complaining because devs, trying to keep agencies on both sides, won’t stop compensatory buffs for both sides over and over. And issue of wants that it contradicts with wants of others in this gameIf every killer was indeed mechanically difficult to master from the start, the problem of “killer role is so easy” wasn’t even a thing. But this what is game about. Make you feel you are a cool in game by keeping high rate on killer that need to press m2 and go forward or used crouchtech as survivor against some Demo. And as soon as they’ll meet person who actually contributed to gameplay they will run to call them tryhard and complain how they screw their experience. As if these players themselves are responsible for which players they play against and with what motivation. Give people 30 s endurance they’ll complain anyway. Because again, their problem is in players itself. Either BHVR need to give clear signs that half of community should go, or god damn, just separate people and give them different playgrounds
-1 -
People tunnel because it's the path of least resistance to a win. It's been happening since I first started playing, and its continued to happen through aaalll the different metas and all the nerfs and all the buffs, and it will continue to happen always. Nowadays, with the SBMM system, it helps push players into higher MMR brackets before theyre ready to compete at that level, which is why so many players feel they "need" to tunnel to get results. My advice is always to cop your losses and stay in a suitable MMR bracket. Everyone wants to reach high MMR, and yet everyone simultaneously hates competitive/sweaty opponents lol that's literally who you find up there
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Killers tunnel because its easy to do. If it wasn’t as easy, then it wouldn’t be as popular. Players will always take the path of least resistance no matter which role.
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does this apply to looping too? survivors loop new killers and then get into high MMR where they feel they need to loop to win?
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Maybe? My post is based on what a dev themselves said. Maybe they have the info on looping too. Though I'd argue becoming a good looper takes more time and experience than being a tunneller does. A new player can pick up the game today and start the ball rolling on tunnelling. Can't say the same for a good looper.
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looping is literally going in circles, i dont think it takes that much skill. a new survivor can go in a circle around a pallet just like a new killer can tunnel except a killer actually needs to down someone to start the tunneling process while a survivor just needs to find a pallet or vault.
based on this whole if you use something to climb the ranks and feel you need it to win this can be applied to literally anything. a player that uses SWF for example, so many have said they wont do solo because its bad and they cant win…maybe these people used SWF to climb the ranks and should cop the loss and stay in the MMR bracket they belong? or someone that just cant win without using sprint burst? maybe they should stop using it, take the loss and stay in the MMR bracket they should be at? where does this mindset end? it almost sounds like people should intentionally under perform in matches to tank their MMR to go against easier opponents.
-10 -
Sure, tunneling can be countered. That's why I said it's very difficult to counter, not impossible. But countering it doesn't make it fun to go against. Even in the matches where I managed to run the Killer all game while being tunneled, I still died at the end, even if all my teammates escaped as a result. I can count a grand total of one (1) match I have escaped after being tunneled, and that was only because the teammates took hits for me after my second hook, and I guess they angered him enough to get him off me. But I was still miserable in that match, and I wanted out.
-1 -
so in matches where you run the killer all match, are you not having fun even if you died at the end? i mean your being chased….thats the fun part of survivor right?
"fun" is subjective, i have fun countering it my way and i wouldnt say its that difficult. im not sweating as survivor and still im countering it. its difficult to understand what some people actually want in the survivor role, they want chases but dont want to be tunneled, they want team play but dont want comms, they want to escape but dont want to touch a gen.
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You ignored that entire portion of my comment where I stated that the game would need further balancing with Killers, since it would overall be easier to achieve if SWF and SoloQ were near equal in power.
SoloQ is claimed to be the biggest portion of Survs; that's a stat fact pushed by BHVR that's repeated ad nauseum on this forum. Yet people still play SoloQ despite it being the worst experience that DBD has to offer, SoloQ remains and has always remained the majority of Survs queueing up according to BHVR…. so why cater to SWF when they are the minority of the Surv player base, at the expense of SoloQ and Killers?
Would actual balance changes to SWF deter people from playing with their friends… I'm doubtful of that, I think that's just a fear monger tactic pushed by people who don't want their unfair advantages neutralized. There is zero reason BHVR can't put changes like that into the PTB and then live, see what happens and revert/adjust if needed, same as all their other balance changes.
What is clear, is that SWF and SoloQ are vastly different and it's making the game unbalance-able.
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It's literally not just running in circles lol if you think that then there's no point in having this discussion. There's a reason looping guides are so popular. There are various different tiles across various different maps, all with their own preferable pathing depending on whether you are killer or survivor. Once you learn this it's easy to use for your own advantage, even as killer. Learning tiles and loops isn’t just for survivors. Other factors like check spots and blood-lust also need to be considered. This is all knowledge you slowly gain as you play more and more.
And to your other point - playing in a swf doesn't suddenly make you a good player. If you go down in chase 10s into a match in solo queue, you're probably going to go down in 10s into a chase in a swf. You dont need to purposely underperform at all. It's not hard to accept that the more you win, the harder your opponents get. It's literally how the game functions currently. If I go up against a good team I accept that they're probably going to win. That's literally all there is to it. There's no equivalent in survivor that can get a new player to rise quickly in MMR the way tunnelling can for new killers. Not even Sprint Burst lol
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Because the root cause is opportunity.
Killers do not need to tunnel. They want to, because it makes the game vastly easier. There's also pretty much zero meaningful consequence to tunneling in 99% of cases.
Now, how do we know this? Well, because we've seen tunneling remain through every meta. Before 6.1, we heard the cries(from myself even) that people would stop tunneling if only DH and DS were nerfed. While some did stop, most increased how frequently they tunneled because it got easier. Apply that to every update and here we are.
Unfortunately, BHVR chickened out on actually curbing the issue by making there be real consequences. A 3v1 is still the best situation for the Killer to be in, ergo, we will still see a massive amount of tunneling.
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because it would be too much work is my guess . A better turorial with video examples and a practice range would go a long way in helping survivors improve at the game . Again tough that would be alot of man hours and i don't think they want to sped the $ on it . Honestly just leave if it hets rhat bad on live if it gets that bad on live . A match can't exist without a killer player so the numbers will show.
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It has definitely been a thing since the early days.
But it is a lot harder to counter nowadays, with how much the game has changed.3 -
Being chased can be fun sometimes, but I don't want to be chased all damn game. It's exhausting. I certainly wouldn't mind comms, but I can see the problems with it. Not only is there potential toxicity, but there's also language barriers. Not everyone who plays DBD speaks English.
I don't get the thing about not touching gens either. It's part of the reason I prefer being on gens than being chased. At least I know I will do them.
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And that's good. The stuff that countered tunneling was absurdly strong.
We just need to also reign in tunneling now as well.
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Yes, it has gone on for a bit too long. I wouldn't mind if it got less attractive to go for the tunnel, especially early in the game.
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I ignored it because what your prosposing means "let's see how bad it is for surviviors and then go from there". So how long is that terrible period where killers get adjusted going to be? Because what they really need is individual adjustments, not blanket ones. And how well has that been going? Skull Merchant hasn't exactly been timely. People complain endlessly about Sadako and Ghostface. Michael's reworks have created endless complaints. Making SWF as unhappy and disadvantaged as soloq for months or years isn't going to fix anything.
And your logic doesn't make sense. Killers tunnel, slug, and camp because of SWF but SWF is a minority. Why would everyone's gameplay revolve around this tiny minority, many of whom arent even sweats? Killers do these things because they want to win, they're easy, and the game let's them.
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No it's not. Survivors still have a massive haste boost, they're untraceable by any means and they can see and avoid you. And if they are getting caught so soon off hook with these changes, thats definitely a skill issue on their part. If a killer is within 20 meters of the hook for a long period of time, your anti camp gain rate is going to be massive, you might as well not be near the hook and let your teammate unhook themself, saving you time and giving extra gen pressure, especially since you can all see the resolve bar now.
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The issue is that your complaints are all balance related. It amounts to 'but what about how killers really want to win?'
Even if true, we have balance issues all the time. Nothing is going to change about that.
Having a game with a hard tunnel is never going to be fun. It's three survivors sitting around doing gens.
Having a game where you lie on the ground for an extended period of time is never going to be fun.
That's the difference. Yes, both sides want to win, but some things just make for a bad game.
I doubt anyone is going to play a role with no agency and no choices to choose from.This argument has never been true. Nothing about agency is being impacted, BHVR has kept tunneling in the game with both the last PTB and their proposed ideas. They've just made it harder, that's not agency being taken away, its calling for players to exert more agency on what they do instead of pursue the obvious 'optimal strategy'.
4 -
A haste boost against Kaneki or Blight isn't going to do anything. The Elusive will be great against killers who don't have eyes, yeah, but we'll see how it goes against the ones who do and are still determined to tunnel and just maintain LoS. There are already killers who stand just outside the anti-camp radius. They're gonna take a few paces back. If they're a ranged or high mobility killer, it'll have little effect on them.
As for skill, soloq teammates aren't renowned for their smart plays, and someone trailing behind you to heal might lead the killer right to you. The map and RNG are going to play a big part too. Like most things, coordinated team will do better with these changes (if they even survive the ptb) than soloq, because they can tell each other what to do and not to do.
-1 -
Well it depends on how poorly you loop. Are you just gonna jiggy (w key) from the hook the second you get hit, or are you going to run to the nearest loop? Either way, no matter the killer, it's not gonna make a difference, you should be staying at a loop once you've lost your endurance, because mobility or not, they will catch up to you.
-1 -
honestly I only tunnel at like 2 gens just because that’s like the only time where I’m just like thinking to myself. Oh crap I’m losing and I need to actually try now. But recently it’s kind of increased because dear God, the pallet density changes make it difficult to catch anyone especially when your main killer is M1.The only time I will ever tunnel a freshly unhooked Survivor though is if they’re running into me because they think endurance is like the equivalent of a Mario invincibility star.
1
