http://dbd.game/killswitch
My head hurts about the MMR System and abandon
Hey everyone,
my head is spinning right now about the MMR System and the increase and decrease of the MMR.
It is a joke that the soft cap of the top MMR is easy to reach and should be higher but there is a tiny elephant in the room.
The abandon System doesn´t affect MMR as hatch does…
On the first hand it seems reasonable, hard tunneling and 4man Slugging shouldn´t be a thing and a Survivor can´t do much against the full pressure of the killer even if the other 3 survivors escape. But here starts the problem. If this survivor gets nuked and dcs/abandons the game his MMR stays the same, till he gets an escape and his MMR climbs?
I needed to see this myself because i never abandon a game and streamed the game with a friend over Discord. He doesn´t play as long as me and his looping Skills are worse than mine but he abandons the game everytime he can… (Yes even the once you could win if you pull through.) And I was shocked. The Killers in his bracket went full on oversweat mode. Long Snipe huntresses, Spirits hitting every phase, Blights and nurses playing as their life is on the line. It was a complete slaughter and nearly every game was the same. Tunnel, slug, defeat, abandon until a Killer was just afk in the game and he escaped.
And now you are telling me… that after 9 games of complete slaughter his MMR rised?
BHVR???
Comments
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BHVR have never really revealed the intricacies around MMR but your friend's MMR wouldnt stay the same always as there'd be plenty of games where he dies and abandon isnt an option. Even DC you only get 1 freebie i believe and then the penalty starts to stack, so he can't be doing that too often. The official stats don't include matches with DCs or abandons (and hatch doesn't count as an escape either), and survivors average a 40% escape rate. So plenty of losses of MMR happen.
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BHVR clearly stated that dc and abandoning games doesn´t affect MMR didn´t they?
Since you can abandon games where you get downed twice you can abandon so many games. Heck you even get the abandon mechanic if you are the last survivor (still healthy and hatch open, happend yesterday in my games)
And yes the rest of the games were slug fests and so on.
He dc´ed 2 times in total, cause he was left on hook and abandoned 7 times. After BHVR logic he shouldn´t lose MMR for these.
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you get atleast 2 free DC then a 5min timeout. playing 20 matches resets this so after 20 matches you can DC 2 more times for free before getting another 5min time out.
escape rate is 40% according to bhvr…is that with voiding the matches that people abandon or are they included as deaths?
i know from my many matches the option to abandon comes up very frequently, last survivor? all downed? downed twice? others DC at the start and im the only actually player on my team besides bot? all of these brings up the abandon option. add the hatch in with it.
example, if im last survivor to go down 5/10 matches, i get the hatch 2/10, first to die 1/10, escape 2/10….if abandons dont count towards MMR then out of 10 matches my MMR would go up as i have escaped twice and only died once.
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If you SWF in a group, doesn't that affect the Killers you're likely to get in your games? Could be that if you play at higher MMR than your friend, the system is boosting your buddy up to your level (and vice versa). Generally speaking, I think SWFs are more likely to get experienced Killers trying their hardest because that's the only way you can compete at that level (yes, I know potato SWF groups also exist. I'm generalising here).
You can see this happen in real time with the YouTube Hardcore Survivor series, where you can watch an experienced SWF dunk on beginner/casual Killers for the first 10-20 games, before eventually running up against top tier Killers that are all sweating hard for the win. It's possible that BHVR don't want to count abandoned games as affecting MMR because these are wins or losses that occurred because players are not really playing as intended. Maybe the Killer tried to shortcut their way to victory by ignoring hook states or the Survivors decided to play a half hour game of hide and seek and barely touched the gens. But I don't know what their rationale is because they've never told us. I do think abandoned games should be counting as losses, though.
In any case, I'd be worried about the MMR system boosting players that abandon if I believed the system actually worked even half the time. So long as we have split event queues and queue times prioritised over match quality, we'll keep getting mismatches and one sided stomps no matter what.
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We didn´t play together that day.
But even if we play together and he abandons nearly every game and I get sacrificed.
I lose MMR and he does not. That´s the problem.
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Sure, but most games aren't between two sole results - abandon or escape. There's plenty of dying in there too. Especially if, as you say, he's not very good at the game.
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I really don't get why they have to complicate the abandon system. If you dont escape via doors (or hatch for the "draw") then it should be treated as a loss regardless of the circumstance (except 4 survivor DCs for killer) and MMR decreases… its not hard BHVR.
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Ofcourse there are more results. I can only speak about the 9 or 10 games we played. Fact is he didn´t die once in these games before he dc´ed or abandonded the games.
So his MMR should be untouched which is not right at all is it?
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DCs and abandons aren't counted in the official stats at all
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I didn´t talk about escape rate or kill rate.
I am talking about your MMR and that it doesn´t go down if you dc or abandon a game. While it does for people which stay in these games and get sacrificed.
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if they are not counted then they dont count for MMR, meaning all these last man down abandons where players should lose MMR are actually not losing it. it wouldnt make a difference short term but long term it would throw the MMR out completely. just have to be last survivor remaining to keep the MMR neutral then get the odd escape to push it up little by little. eventually survivors would climb MMR and get tougher matches even though they struggle to escape v low MMR killers.
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So… just as an example if you skip the Mori Animation with your SWF does the following?
- Abandoning a game lowers the Killrate on the stats… because the most abandoned games are loses for Survivors.
2. But abandoning games pushes the survivors MMR (because loses won´t decrease MMR and escapes rise them) after a certain amount of time (If it is used that much)
That means all stats of Killrates are completly downplayed and way to many survivors are in MMR brackets where they don´t belong to?
My head hurts…
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I hope more people will push devs to be more clear around this theme
MMR is a mess. I’m trying to avoid abandon as much as possible, no recently I had a huge lose streak and I really felt… I want to press this button. I even pressed it few times because didn't want to waste time on killer hooking everyone, because we let to snowball
This abandon system is extremely unhealthy for me ngl. This bot replacement is straightforward boring experience. Why team just can't give up as a whole and Insta leave in impossibility to comeback, idk… everyone just either have to waste a time, or mess with MMR and rates
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its still unclear but untill BHVR actually confirm it then its possible it works this way. All we know is "abandoning and DC do not effect MMR" according to Balrog. And that "the official stat tracker players can see isnt what BHVR uses for stat tracking" according to Mandy. Its a mess i know that much lol.
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What's even worse about it is that when the killers allowed to abandon it doesn't give him the MMR win. So hypothetically if i was to just spam 4 man slug every single game, the survivors will abandon, then I would abandon. This would allow me to perpetually smurf and never raise my MMR to keep doing it over and over to the newer players. The abandon system has caused many problems.
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Didn´t thought about that…
Holy loophole of hell
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For sure, idk why no one seems to care about this. It's allowed perpetual smurfing and bullying of players by game design. It's not just slugging either, you could apply this same scenario to any time the killer is allowed to abandon.
The core flaw in this design that's causing the problem is making a killer abandon a "neutral" rather than a "win". All of the criteria for when a killer is allowed to abandon is basically when he's only won. Like when all the remaining survivors are bots I'm not allowed to abandon and leave or it doesn't count as a win for me, even though it should be. Like the games already "over" at that point, which is why the survivors are allowed to leave early, but some reason that same rational doesn't apply to letting the killer leave or he's punished? Lol just what. Makes ZERO sense and makes the system feel very bias. So the normal killer player gets punished unless he plays janitor after the games over and the toxic killer is allowed to smurf all he wants and continue the toxicity.
Since there's no scenario where the killer can abandon unless he's already basically won, just make his abandon count as "wins"(because they are) instead of "neutral"(aka no mmr impact). This solves the entire problem. Now it doesn't punish normal killer and doesn't enable toxic ones.
I do find the abandon system flawed at concept though to be honest. Like it made sense when it was a tool to get out of "toxic" matches. That I completely understand and sounds good. However, realistically now abandoning has been allowed in so many scenarios that it's no longer for toxicity, it's just a "go next faster" button. This would be like me having a soccer game and as soon as there's like 10 minutes left in the game but my team is too far behind to win, instead of finishing the match out with good sportsmanship and shaking hands we just instantly walk off the field and head home mid match. It's just unsportsmanlike and would honestly be childish behavior..and that's how the game's actually designed. Just mind blowing to me. Finishing the dbd match out would cost them an extra like 30 seconds…we're not talking a long time here.
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Nothing I say in the following post is meant to defend BHVR, because wow has it been confusing as of late, but hopefully to add some clarity:
BHVR clearly stated that dc and abandoning games doesn´t affect MMR didn´t they?Balrog, who to my understanding doesn't meet what BHVR considers a Dev, said that abandons don't impact MMR.
Mandy, who is a dev, said that MMR and their internal stats track different things. This has not been clarified unfortunately. But, Mandy has said in the past MMR tracks complex factors, which to my understanding is not true, though it might depend on what your definition of complex is.
The 8.7.2 patch said that abandoning the match as a survivor when all other survivors were in the dying state would now be counted as a loss (instead of a draw).
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BHVR's stated goal is that they don't want players thinking about MMR, but what they've done recently on communications has resulted in the exact opposite.
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However, realistically now abandoning has been allowed in so many scenarios that it's no longer for toxicity, it's just a "go next faster" button. This would be like me having a soccer game and as soon as there's like 10 minutes left in the game but my team is too far behind to win, instead of finishing the match out with good sportsmanship and shaking hands we just instantly walk off the field and head home mid match. It's just unsportsmanlike and would honestly be childish behavior..and that's how the game'sactuallydesigned. Just mind blowing to me. Finishing the dbd match out would cost them an extra like 30 seconds…we're not talking a long time here.I don't want to sidetrack too much from the all important topic of telling BHVR none of us have any idea what they are talking about, but I'll also always defend the idea of a "go next faster" button being a good idea (in terms of mind blowing I've always been stunned how long it took them to get to it).
Soccer Example - In this scenario, you're still playing soccer. Whether the game is 20 to 0 or tied, you're still playing the game.
In DbD you're lying on the ground. There's really no game you are playing. The survivor has probably picked up their cell phone or alt tabbed to something else. There's nothing substantively different between it being a human at the computer, one who has gone to the bathroom, or a bot.
Counter Example - A good example to me is from American Football and the NFL. When a team scores a touchdown, they then get to kick an extra point or go for two. However (as of 2018), if the touchdown is scored after time has expired, and the extra point is meaningless (i.e. the game is now 20 to 7), it doesn't happen.
Even outside those extremes, in most sports the team that is winning tries to get the game over as quickly as possible (kneeling on the ball in American football, throwing the ball around in basketball, etc.) Better to speed up pointless things and move on.
Sportsmanship - My most recent sporting activity was an adult, indoor soccer league. If it became clear that the teams were extremely mismatched, we usually called the game, and traded players around. Having a balanced, enjoyable game was far more important than sticking out something that was one sided. If I'm winning a game, especially by a lot, I usually feel pretty embarrassed and bad and am just hoping for it to end as quickly as possible.
It's also worth noting there are many sports and leagues that do have mercy rules (which outside of professional play are generally good ideas). If the rules say 'here is when the game is or can be over', its not bad sportsmanship to recognize that.
An extra 30 seconds - Over thousands and thousands of games that many people will end up playing, it adds up. But there's a couple of other game design factors
1: It makes the end of the game boring. From a design perspective the best games have exciting ends (the last kill in team death match, a hectic fight over a control point, trying to push the cart a few more inches as time ticks down). DbD has too many times were the game just ends on an incredibly dull note.
2: It probably harms player retention. Ideally BHVR should want players to end a game, and think about getting right back into the next one. I know in the past when I was lying on the ground I wasn't getting excited for another game, I was probably thinking about what else I can do.
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It's already been shown the survivor stats are off. We haven't gotten any real clarification on MMR.
I'm currently keeping close track of my killer matches, writing down how many people I kill, how many abandon and DC, and how many of those register as escapes on the "recent matches" part of the stats. I'm going to see if my kill rate matches the rate the stats give me perfectly or if they're are discrepancies. I'm doing it for 30 days so I have a full month of numbers to directly compare to the tracker.
The bigger problem is, indeed, MMR. I don't have my numbers in front of me, but out of 10 matches yesterday, I had at least 15 abandons. That would mean at least 15 out of 40 kills were not counted towards my MMR. It's basically built-in smurfing. Ironically, this would mean the more 4ks you get, the more you'll see that effect, since people don't abandon 2k and 3k matches nearly as often.
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30 seconds is not harming player retention. Also, if we want to compare with your example of ending the game faster that isn't quite comparable because we aren't talking about kneeling and getting the game over faster, we're talking about you immediately walking off the field, no hands shook, no gg, just insta dipping. If using your examples we didn't just kneel but they immediately just walked off the field and exited the stadium that would be very different.
If the exit gate is open can we make it so killer can just immediately abandon to accept defeat? Same jist but I would also think this would be stupid. It's unsportsmanlike. I think the killer should have to ride out the end as well.
How is it fair that they've all abandoned and I'm only in the game with bots that I'm forced to finish out the game and can't leave to claim my win or the games not counted? Why is the killer forced to be the janitor and clean up? The games over after all. This is a double standard.
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I heard that when you play with a friend, the host's MMR is what the game uses for matchmaking. I saw someone use a low-MMR account to host games for their main account to trick the system. That shows the matchmaking doesn't really look at all players MMR in the lobby.
I'd suggest your friend try accepting the losses instead of abandoning matches, to eventually get into easier games. It can take several games or hours until the matchmaking evens out.0 -
I'm not defending the abandon button--I actually hate it in its current application and I don't use it, but not only does the quantity of those 30s endings matter, it's the quality. If someone is slugged for the 4k and is left powerless and unable to act on the ground, the killer isn't showing good sportmsahip. So why should the survivors? That's not all ending scenarios, but it's a lot of them, and even when it isn't, people are fed up and want to move on. Good sportsmanship isn't in a good place right now in DbD.
It's also really boring to watch these tired moris over and over and over again. The finisher mori has made the game painfully repetitive. I can understand why people are over it. And the abandon should be just a skip animation button instead of an MMR toss-out.
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"If someone is slugged for the 4k and is left powerless and unable to act on the ground, the killer isn't showing good sportmsahip. So why should the survivors?
This is an irrelevant statement as I already said that it's fine for preventing toxicity, aka the scenario you're describing. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about normal matches. In normal matches the time for the killer to simply hook the final survivor or two is not significant enough to warrant allowing abandoning for.
"It's also really boring to watch these tired moris over and over and over again. The finisher mori has made the game painfully repetitive. I can understand why people are over it. And the abandon should be just a skip animation button instead of an MMR toss-out. "
It's like 5 seconds man, it's not a big deal. This is silly.
I do agree that abandon shouldn't be an MMR toss out though, that makes no sense that it does that. I can't think of a single rational reason for them doing that.
I'm completely fine with abandon for getting out of toxicity. I'm just not fine with it for go next faster. I don't think it's sportsmanlike and harms the integrity of the game.
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Slugging for the 4k is a constant occurrence in my survivor matches. If that's toxic (which I never really thought it was. Just crappy) then a lot of negative feelings have built up in people, so the abandon must look very appealing indeed. I don't know if I'd call a 4man slug toxic either. Again, its crappy, the game shouldn't even allow it to happen, and hopefully it soon won't with the upcoming changes. Toxic, to me, is BMIng, which the abandon feature currently does not help with.
It's like 5 seconds man, it's not a big deal. This is silly.
It's not a big deal but people skip them in almost every match they occur in, so they're clearly not interested. They're also mostly hideous. I no longer do them as killer. I don't want to watch them either. I'm saying they haven't helped the game, especially combined with the abandon.
I can't think of a single rational reason for them doing that.
I'm afraid the rationale may have been an unhealthy one. Stat-wise, anyone who makes it to the end can get free hatch the moment they hit the ground. It's starting to feel like a survivor stat consolation prize. It would be an easy enough fix to have the option show up maybe 30s after the last down.
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"Slugging for the 4k is a constant occurrence in my survivor matches. If that's toxic (which I never really thought it was. Just crappy) then a lot of negative feelings have built up in people, so the abandon must look very appealing indeed. I don't know if I'd call a 4man slug toxic either. Again, its crappy, the game shouldn't even allow it to happen, and hopefully it soon won't with the upcoming changes. Toxic, to me, is BMIng, which the abandon feature currently does not help with."
I personally wouldn't call that toxic either, I'm more referencing that lots of people would. The abandon looks appealing to them because a lot of the player base is entitled and don't care about anything but themselves. Not something I think should be catered to.
"It's not a big deal but people skip them in almost every match they occur in, so they're clearly not interested. They're also mostly hideous. I no longer do them as killer. I don't want to watch them either. I'm saying they haven't helped the game, especially combined with the abandon. "
Well dang man there's a ton killers aren't interesting in that they have to sit through, should they be able to skip any of that stuff as well? Once the gates are powered and open I'm personally not interested in kills gained from whether or not they decide to be greedy and save, should I be able to skip all that. Letting things be skippable just because people aren't interested in it is a bad metric that has a slippery slope or a lot of double standards. We're currently sitting in the double stardards section. Survivors have abandon criteria for simply wanting to go next faster, but the killer doesn't have this. They expect the killer to sit through everything.
" It's starting to feel like a survivor stat consolation prize."
Yeah that's literally what it's been since the games release.
" It would be an easy enough fix to have the option show up maybe 30s after the last down."
This might make the killer just leave that other guy slugged even longer though unfortunately.
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30 seconds is not harming player retention.Sure it does. The degree might be uncertain, but anytime you have a game element that is making people bored and they feel is pointless, its going to hurt. If you love DbD it probably doesn't affect you, but there's lots of players who are on the fence about DbD who are wondering why they aren't doing something else.
Also, if we want to compare with your example of ending the game faster that isn't quite comparable because we aren't talking about kneeling and getting the game over faster, we're talking about you immediately walking off the field, no hands shook, no gg, just insta dipping. If using your examples we didn't just kneel but they immediately just walked off the field and exited the stadium that would be very different.If we're comparing sports examples, and I know the community comes at this from a different perspective, this doesn't read like the survivors quitting the field. This sounds like the killer scored a touchdown to win the game and is insisting that everyone watch him spike the football and do an endzone dance. No, game's done, handshakes fine, but its not sportsmanlike to make the other team watch you celebrate.
If the exit gate is open can we make it so killer can just immediately abandon to accept defeat?Yes, absolutely, watching survivors teabag isn't part of the game, its again trying to make the other side watch as you spike the ball, its just the survivors doing it to the killer.
(Just to be clear: I'd put it into the game if I could. There are added difficulties because of lack of killer bots plus the doors being open and all the survivors being down is not exactly the same, so I have no idea what the time investment would be to put this in, but if we're just talking hypothetically I'd do it).
How is it fair that they've all abandoned and I'm only in the game with bots that I'm forced to finish out the game and can't leave to claim my win or the games not counted? Why is the killer forced to be the janitor and clean up?The killer has always been the janitor playing clean up in this scenario. As killer I also want this situation to end as quickly as it can.
The game not being counted is dumb. Everyone who advocated for survivors being able to quit did so fully expecting it would mean a loss/death.
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The abandon looks appealing to them because a lot of the player base is entitled and don't care about anything but themselves. Not something I think should be catered to.
Then you don't want an end game abandon for killers?
Yeah that's literally what it's been since the games release
I'm talking about how abandons artifiically inflate personal survivor stats. It registers like free hatch even if you died. Neither the abandon nor the stats have been around that long.
Letting things be skippable just because people aren't interested in it is a bad metric that has a slippery slope or a lot of double standards.
Two things here. You're talking about things that are gameplay. There's still activity in the match even if it's activity you don't like. Last second saves and kills are possible. The mori is animation. Skipping animation is pretty normal in games. Nothing else can happen so I get skipping it. If they hadn't installed the finisher mori and survivors still had a chance of wiggling off than the abandon wouldn't be needed here, but they deicded to do this stupid ending thing and people should be able to skip it, even if I personally don't. It just shouldn't give them a free pass.
Second, idk if I'd call it a double standard because the power balance is quite skewed. Partially, it's because there's no viable killler bots. But it's also because scenarios where killers keep survivors trapped in hopeless matches are far, far more common than the opposite. Like you mentioned about a slugging, griefing smurf. That can and does happen, and those new survivors are totally powerless against someone like that, so I understand why they're adding the slugged-twice abandon option. That's an extreme scenario, but I've been left to bleed out for four minutes many times just for funsies. I just wish everything didn't count as null matches. There needs to be a distinction between an escape from a toxic player and just getting to the scoreboard faster.
This might make the killer just leave that other guy slugged even longer though unfortunately.
Which is where both a self pickup and a fast bleedout option in end game are needed, so survivors have a choice at all times, aside from just leaving the match entirely.
But someone like this isn't going to care if their opponent abandons or not. They get their kill either way.
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"Then you don't want an end game abandon for killers?"
No, I don't think either should exist. I'd only push for the killer end game abandon if we're still keeping it in game so it's fair for both sides.
"I'm talking about how abandons artifiically inflate personal survivor stats. It registers like free hatch even if you died. Neither the abandon nor the stats have been around that long."
Only on the dbd website. Not the devs data.
"Two things here. You're talking about things that are gameplay. There's still activity in the match even if it's activity you don't like. Last second saves and kills are possible. The mori is animation. Skipping animation is pretty normal in games. Nothing else can happen so I get skipping it. If they hadn't installed the finisher mori and survivors still had a chance of wiggling off than the abandon wouldn't be needed here, but they deicded to do this stupid ending thing and people should be able to skip it, even if I personally don't. It just shouldn't give them a free pass. "
You gave the criteria of "not interesting", not whether it's interactive game play or not. I'd argue on average survivors waste significantly more time waiting at exit gates to tbag or be forcibly pushed out than they would watching a mori. This tells you it has absolutely nothing to with wasting time. They just want to gloat, but don't want the other side to be able to. Double standard. There's no game play standing at the exit portal tbagging where even if you're downed it pushes you out. Skipping animation in games IS normal againt NPC's. It is not normal in player vs player.
'Second, idk if I'd call it a double standard because the power balance is quite skewed."
Not sure what you mean by this.
" But it's also because scenarios where killers keep survivors trapped in hopeless matches are far, far more common than the opposite. "
Completely disagree. I literally cannot even remember the last time this has happened to me, and I play wayy more than the average player. This is probably more of a player playing bad which is their own fault rather than "getting trapped", which is a way of alleviating accountability.
'Like you mentioned about a slugging, griefing smurf. That can and does happen, and those new survivors are totally powerless against someone like that, so I understand why they're adding the slugged-twice abandon option."
This doesn't make sense. They are generally facing similar skilled killers if they're new and even if they were in this scenario (which is ridiculously rare mind you, even the dev stats show it), they are already able to abandon. Slugged twice abandon option is a ridiculous idea that makes no sense and is utterly unnecessary. It removes slugging as a strategy in game and makes all game play boringly linear.
"That's an extreme scenario, but I've been left to bleed out for four minutes many times just for funsies"
I haven't had this happen to me in even the past year of playing, and again I'm playing way more than most people. This isn't even an issue worth addressing.
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Only on the dbd website. Not the devs data.
Yeah but our viewable stats are what we're all going off of. That's a big problem. Look how many people in the forum post their 50-60% ERs as examples of survivor being easy. How much of that is abandons and DCs? The dev data also throws out matches with DCs, which will mostly favor killers. And there are a lot of those matches. So the KRs are off. And if abandons don't affect MMR and don't count as losses than every single number measurement is off.
There's no game play standing at the exit portal tbagging where even if you're downed it pushes you out
But events can still occur. You can farm for points. You can be friendly and end it nicely. I've gotten last minute kills off of BMers who misjudged at the gates too. Literally nothing can change during a mori. The fact that you even view the mori as a form of gloating kinda sucks and is one of many reasons I've stopped doing it. I don't tbag at the gates--I just leave. Yet I have to watch endless moris.
This is probably more of a player playing bad which is their own fault rather than "getting trapped", which is a way of alleviating accountability.
There are also four players on a survivor team. If you're soloqing, you can't decide what you'll get. One good player can't fix the team.
I haven't had this happen to me in even the past year of playing, and again I'm playing way more than most people. This isn't even an issue worth addressing.
I also play a lot. I've been intentionally left to bleed at least three times in recent memory: one Bubba AFK with me and a bot laying at their feet. One Unknown who farmed pallets and doors, then came back to mori me last second. And a griefing Twins player who slugged over and over and didn't hook anyone all match, playing only for bleedouts. That's cool it doesn't happen to you, but it happens to me more than enough. The vast majority of players are abandoning as soon as they hit the ground and not waiting out the timer like I am. These scenarios don't even need abandon. They just need a fast bleedout option.
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A game could have a survivor DC, but the killer should still get an MMR increase for killing the other 3 survivors despite the game itself not contributing to the official kill/escape rates that the devs use for balancing purposes. If they did include these games then I imagine the official kill rates would be higher than they actually are, hence why they dont include them. But it doesn't mean your MMR isnt affected.
The survivor who DC'd may void their own MMR increase/decrease in that instance, but that's why there are penalties, so they can't do it all the time. Overall, this is one of those aspects the devs need to provide more clarity on.
My point re kill rates, is your suggestion that survivors MMRs can remain stagnant until it increases. I'm saying deaths still overwhelmingly happen to every survivor. They happen more than leaving via exit gate, and more than having the opportunity to abandon. I'm doubtful that your friend only leaves every trial via exit gate or abandon. Sometimes he's the survivor who "stay in these games and gets sacrificed." 9 or 10 games isn't a big sample size. Also, this isnt me saying the system is perfect. I'm simply saying that 'stagnant until increases' isn't the norm because it suggests survivors overwhelmingly arent dying on hook.
When i play killer, i typically only get an abandon from the last survivor if I down them, though some stick around. If you're someone who slugs then i imagine you'd see it more often.
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this clearly states that DC and abandons are not tracked since your and their MMR is NOT affected.
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Yes, but MMR is treated as a 1v1. It's why even if you kill 4 survivors, you won't necessarily receive an equal MMR increase for each because factors like yours and your opponent's MMR is taken into account when determining how much you gain or lose (eg if you kill a survivor with a higher MMR than you, then you gain more MMR than if you kill a survivor of a lower MMR). That was confirmed previously by Peanits. Again, this is why the devs need to clarify the specifics. The quote you've shared says that matches with a DC or abandon don't count in official stats (which i said), but by "theirs and your" MMR do they mean the 1v1 between killer and the DCing/abandoning survivor, or between killer and all survivors.
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Theoretical:
If I run hate and the Survivor with the most MMR is my obsession and in the whole match I hit only this survivor once while getting completly destroyed my MMR rises?
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If you lose the game (1k) then you will lose MMR, but your opponents MMR affects how much you lose. So the game would expect you to lose to a survivor with higher MMR and wouldnt punish you as much. This is all based on what Peanits has shared with us over the years. Whether things have changed in that time is anyone's guess and he longer has a role in community liaising so can't update us.
I'm currently trying to find screenshots I've taken of info he shared, this one below was talking specifically about hatch - ie hatch escape nullifies the whole match on BHVRs end but the killer still gains MMR from the other three deaths. Since we know DCs and now abandons are treated the same way (match is nullified on BHVRs end), this is specifically why I say the killer is likely still rewarded for the other kills. But again, an update would be nice in light of confusion around abandons.
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Here's the more thorough explanation from Peanits. Notably, you can draw and still increase in MMR
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Thanks for your good work.
But doesn´t that still prove my point too? Or am I missing something.
If you play vs 3 potatoes and 1 god as an average Killer. And you manage to kill only the God by Hate or Noed or what ever. Could your MMR increase in a loss?
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I don't believe so. He said "all the different ratings changes are added together" at the end of the game. So in that particular situation, i believe overall you'd end up with a loss, but just not a significant one. Killing the better player as opposed to the weaker ones lessens the blow, so to speak. That's my interpretation anyway, i could be wrong.
I have a bunch of other screenshots somewhere where he talks about how a singular match doesn't have a significant impact on your overall MMR and that it's based around a certain number of matches instead, so in a working SBMM system (ha) i imagine you wouldnt be often facing 3 potatoes and 1 god looper. That would be the outlier. So even if it meant you did walk away with an increase in MMR, it would probably be cancelled out by the following games where you're matched more appropriately.
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