http://dbd.game/killswitch
Killer diversity
Many of the things changed in recent patches all lead to the same outcome - weaker killers getting punished, driving Killer players to play characters which are viable - Nurse, for example. Pinhead was supposed to get a buff before his license got revoked, and the PTB features a change that will completely destroy his ability to even use his power by making Survivors with Endurance invincible.
Pallet density changes that only impact lower-tier Killers that actually have to bother with pallets, long-lasting protections Nurses don't give a ######### about while Onryo has to jog around for a minute and a half before even getting close to the Survivor.
Bugs that remain "acknowledged" by the developers in forum and Reddit posts alike, which somehow never make the bug fixes page in the patch notes.
And the Survivors you play against as a low-tier Killer. Jesus Christ. Have a particularly rough match and Survivors will do everything in their power to make you feel miserable, but then complain when they only face Nurses and Blights.
Come on. I want to play more different Killers than I feel like I can now. Where are the Pinhead buffs that were promised, where are the fixes that Houndmaster so desperately needs, where is the real QoL The Skull Merchant was promised?
Comments
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It's been so long SM has been turned into tree food for Sheltered Woods. That's where they got all the pallets from!
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honestly considering how long it’s been since they first announced they were going to rework her. I’m just happy she’s getting anything at this point. Too bad she’s still going to be the worst killer in the game though.
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Because we havent seen enough kaneki, blight and nurse before the update.
Lets just pretend like if we did the opposite,
people wouldnt be so "pressured" to play meta and surely not abuse the weakness for easy wins.
Ideally would love for them to add blood-gens to corner gens only. Free gen pressure and almost no way to have your teammates 3 gen you + elusive statue effect.
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Idk why it’s so hard to get buffs for all the low tier killers so we can get some variety. I don’t know why they’re so reluctant.
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Because there is a design limitation for every killer. Look at Clown's case: he was A tier for some short time recently, but at what cost? Braindead easy to pick up, braindead easy to be good with, very strong. And that's the good example of how you can't just tweak numbers for low tier killers without making them stupid at some aspect of their power. To some degree, of course.
Like, let's take Legion and give him 1s fatigue instead of current 2.5s. And make his Frenzy start with 6.0m/s. He will be A tier for sure, but, once again, at what cost? Once again, braindead easy to pick up, braindead easy to be good with, very strong.
But, honestly, it's the way the game goes anyway. Survivors become easier with almost every patch and it's strange to ask killers to be very time and skill investings to perform well, while other role slowly becomes an auto-pilot.6 -
Ive switched from pig to ghoul and jesus the amount of fun im having again is insane! I can finnaly keep up with the gen speeds the second chances etc... i hate to say it but i dont think il return to "m1" killers till the pace of gameplay changes drasticly
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I don’t think there’s a design limitation with each killer. The issues you’re describing are very easily solved. It’s because you don’t just do number tweaks. You make changes that require skill to see the buffs. This solves the issues of too much power that’s too easy to access. IE changes that high skill players can access with skill that low skill players aren’t able to.
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Beautiful words S2
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Since looking at the tunneling changes forum I honestly think top tiers and lower tiers need to be treated differently to be able to give the lower tiers blanket buffs and make them feel better to play.
PTB changes barley effect the top tiers but people want killer incentives that would buff top tier even more powerful and this is why survivors will sweat so much, because they have too when a lot of killers just run top tiers with slow down so you get conditioned to play hard.
what needs to happen is they need to give no incentives to top so that low tiers are able to get stronger incentives , and I would even support tile generation based on killer (eg blight will have more pallets likely to spawn but if you are playing a weaker killer the pallet spawn rate stays at a lower rate)0 -
There is also a "data" limitation for Bhvr. Killlers like Legion, Wraith, Pig and Sadako are low MMR Stompers. Bhvr is afraid to buff those killers and make the new play experience worse.
I don't agree with that but seeing how they do spreedsheet balance it doesn't surprise me.
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Well, it requires at least soft rework then, like with Mayers, and it's not that easy. Safe original identity of killer, keep design aspects that people wasted time on, create something new on top of it without destroying original idea and make it not too easy to get value from.
Also yeah, Rickprado is right, some killers, especially these who have second built-in objectives, perform way better no matter what. That's why I doubt we will ever see Onryo or Freddy (yeah, I know he is not bad) buffs sadly.
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Well that would all depend what we consider "soft" reworks I suppose. Like as an example I like the idea of using an effect we've rarely seen in Deafened. You could attach that to Legions Frenzy hit and it's applied just until the Deep Wounds is removed. I like this because a lot of the time Legions just Frenzy hit and then immediately run to spread it to the next survivor while that survivor immediately starts mending. With this change it adds more skill to Legion(and more decision making) with the potential for more strength. You could just continue to spread your Frenzy hits or you could break LoS and cancel your Frenzy to double back. That survivor now has to play smart on if you actually left and he wants to start mending or play safer because he could be doubling back. The Deafened prevents him from not only hearing the TR but also his sound of canceling his Frenzy. Bad Legions aren't gonna utilize something like this well but good players could. There is a slight base buff here at base as well since the Deafened can make it easier to mind game at loops since they won't hear his footsteps, vaulting sound ect but this type of buff on someone as bad as Legion doesn't seem unreasonable. Maybe this is what you would consider a soft rework I'm not sure, but it's as simple as throwing a status effect to it, so barely any work at all and identity unchanged.
While just one example this concept could be applied to many of the bad killers. Generally speaking, buffs that are only buffs if the killers is skilled enough to utilize it. This leaves it buffing those weak killers at higher level (where they're weak) but not really buffing them at lower levels (where killers typically do fine).
"Also yeah, Rickprado is right, some killers, especially these who have second built-in objectives, perform way better no matter what. That's why I doubt we will ever see Onryo or Freddy (yeah, I know he is not bad) buffs sadly."
Unfortunately I generally agree. They are unlikely to buff any secondary objective killer even though they do very poorly against any remotely competent player just because they do well against bad players. Realistically this shouldn't be a good reason, it just means we need better tutorials and things for educating new players on what to do. But yeah. This is similarly why I think they don't want to buff the stealth killers either even though they are generally all very weak. This all said, I do think these type of killers could be buffed for the reason I mentioned earlier. You buff them in a way where the buff requires skill to utilize it. Bad/low skill killers aren't able to utilize this so it isn't making them stronger at the lower levels like we're worried about but makes them more viable at the high levels. Just tie the "buff" behind skill requiring things, not just "number is higher", which would buff low skill killers, which is what we don't want.
Like another example. If you buffed Onryo's phasing in and out while demanifested. No low skill Onryo players are timing this for mind games, even most high skill Onryo's aren't doing this. Not specifically saying this is what they should do, but just giving an example here. That wouldn't really hurt low skill survivors but it would help high skill Onryo's in high mmr, which is what we want.
So skill requiring buffs, not free buffs is the goal here. That's how you buff them at higher mmr's without hurting the low levels. Clown failed because it was just free buffs that all Clowns could use for free.
Total tangent but I really wish we'd see more secondary objective(macro) and stealth killers. Those are my favorite kinds but it feels like we haven't had many in ages. All we get is dashslop or anti loop killers over and over. Not my cup of tea. I like Onryo, Pig, Knight type stuff.
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I have a solution to some of that. Read what I responded to Fussy and tell me what you think of that as a potential solution.
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I think there are four main issues:
1. The developers love to give a killer a big buff/change instead of little changes every two patches which means it takes much longer until a killer becomes better. For example: Since Knight's release, we told the developers to make the Map of the Realm addon basekit and they did it with his rework that happened two years later. Of course, sometimes they give a killer a little buff but then call it a day for a long time - for example Pig or Legion.
2. I think the developers have so much to do that buffing some killers have a very low priority for them. This game has so many bugs and other issues and even though they delayed so much content and promised to us to make it better, we got nothing in terms of "fixing long time issues". I don't blame the devs or any CM, or mod but rather the ones above them since they have the power to decide what should happen next. You can kinda see it on how they fix issues: the developers just nerfed clowns and Huntress instadown addon by a big number nerf instead of giving it a rework - now they are no longer an issue because they are useless. Houndmaster's Knotted Rope addon is still useless and the devs even said on Reddit there is no date when it will get a rework - reworking one addon sounds like a one day work but for them, it has a super low priority that DbD2 is more likely than getting a reworked Knotted Rope addon. Unknown's Vanished Box got another big nerf despite being already useless - instead of a rework, they just nerf it. We can also see it on the anti-stuff: Their main solution to reduce tunnelling, slugging, and camping is an easy number fix instead of something bigger that feels fairer overall, and like a solution for the futher and not only for now.
3. The developers play the game no doubt about it but there is the question of how much knowledge they have. A casual killer who picks up Artist for a few matches has a different opinion than someone who mains this killer. Therefore, their pov of a killer might be a different one and this pov might be a "the killer is fine" because they don't play a killer for hours and see how much QoL issues the killer has. I play Arist since release and I could tell you so many balance and QoL issue she has but the developers might say "no, she is fine".
4. Then, I feel like because they might lack the knowledge of some killers, they also lack the knowledge to know why something feels weak. For example, when they tried to rework some Artist addons, they just wanted to nerf them to bring them more in line witthe other addons. they did not understand that the other addons are just bad. We also this with Clown: They just buffed the yellow bottles and thought this was enough to put him in a better spot. During this time, many players called him A tier but he wasn't A tier, he was still C tier but just super brainless in chase. The devs did not fixed the right issues of him.
I also have a feeling that the developers love to buff specific killers before they get something special. Vecna received two buffs and that right before he got something special (DnD chaos shuffle and an anniversary outfit). Same for Dracula and Pyramid Head, right before 2v8 and new cosmetics, they got some changes.
I don't think this is true. I know the developers love their statistics and often use them as an argument (see recent stream where they said 40% of matches have tunnelling without explaining how this tunnelling happens - it was a stupid number for an excuse to introduce their idea of how to fix it) but they don't use them everytime. The developers buffed Pig, Vecna, and Dredge even though they had a high killer rate before their buffs.
In case of Wraith, I think he should get some buffs and an addon rework but the issue is that he does fine in matches and his statistics are porably also fine, and no one is really complaining about - like show me the last post that asked for a Wraith buff, you can count every "buff Wraith"-post on one hand. He is just too average.
For Sadako, I think similar to Skull Merchant, the developers just gave up. Her current version is not in a terrible spot like the release version but also not brutal op like her second version. It is something in between, actually weak but many players don't like to use their brain which covers her weaknesses pretty well. In my opinion, if you want to buff Sadako, you need to rework her another time since the ability to instakill a survivor is just so easy to mess up balanced-wise. This is also proably the reason why the developers love to create dash-killers because they are not such an balance-issue and players love dash-killers → win-win-situation.
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Sorry, but Legion buff will do close to nothing against not completely stupid players. He has similiar addon and played with it some time and it only worked against completely clueless potatoes.
Onryo suggestion is nice and I will be glad to see it, but, once again, it will do very little against normal survivors, because her core problem is in her counterplay, which makes you basicly powerless, when is not ignored. She will be better, but still pretty weak and it's about it.
That's why I say there is a design limitation, which can't be solved with only number tweaks, some status effects. And I'm glad that they give some rework to Trapper because of it. You can give all his best addons basekit and he still will be mid killer at best.0 -
The options aren’t useless or make them S tier. I’m not implying little things like my examples are going to be game swinging for them. They would be improvements that would make them better though. Also yes, I know Legions addon and no, it’s not the same thing. Oblivious hurts his Fenzy and Oblivious still lets them hear him Frenzy cancel if he’s trying to double back. Very different.
I know that doesn’t fix Onryos core problems, that wasn’t the goal.I feel like if my idea for them isnt making them all the sudden viable vs a 4 man sweat squad you think it’s pointless. My point is simply that you can improve them without hurting bad survivors more, that’s it. It wasn’t to make them all the sudden strong viable or fix their core problems.
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