Tunneling & Slugging Update is basically worthless!
Comments
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There is no cap on gen speed.
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ok so what have they done about tunneling and slugging??? absolutely NOTHING - like i said its going to continue to be an issue and they will never do anything to fix it
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how do you sound right now??? tunneling out a survivor doesnt mean they need to improve #########
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the fact that this account is so old - try again i dont even play with meg but please continue…..
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This is interesting. I feel like there should be, because I saw someone quoting as fact that a generator would get done in 34s, if you bring the right perks.
I've been playing this game for about 7 years now, and I don't think I've ever seen generators done that fast solo.
If high skilled players are doing gens that fast on their own, that is a huge issue that needs to be addressed, because I feel like there's a huge disparity between super fast and regular, and while that happens a lot in this game, for something as core as gens it really shouldn't.
This isn't a competitive game in the way where there are pro players who should far outstrip what the average player base is doing. It's not an esports tournament game, so disparity like this should not be taken as a given.
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Yeah unfortunately no matter how you explain it people will only see "big bad killer wanting to ruin my experience!" and not the killer being an actual player wanting to win their objective. So, then they just whine about said killer doing what they have to do to win and not proposing good solutions or actively endorsing the bad ones the devs propose.
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Whole I'm not necessarily opposed to a cap on things like haste or overall speed increases and decreases, that's not what I said at all, but it's it what I responded to.
It also conveniently ignores all of the actual limitations they have added such as pretty and item nerfs as well as actual increases to gen times.
Typical moving the goal post, and just now evidence that it will never be enough for some people until kill rates are 100%. It sure wasn't enough when gens could be stalled for an hour, so why would now be any different?
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Fast completion speed has always been the reason that killers adapt "tunneling and slugging" into their gameplay. The only convenient ignorance on display at the moment is the vast majority deeming it to be fine that potential hooking speed cannot compete with potential gen speeds. Demanding restrictions on the only things the killer can do to combat the gen speeds is selfish and near-sighted.
After gens cannot be completed at ridiculous rates is when restrictions to "tunneling and slugging" should be applied if we ever want to truly get to a more positive and fun game state.
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Fast completion speed has always been the reason that killers adapt "tunneling and slugging" into their gameplay
Gen speed is the default, "go to" complaint when no one has decided a specific perk, map, or item is the particular flavor of the month.
We know, for a fact, that gen speeds are just an excuse people use, because we have a full years with of live game data that says otherwise.
A year of gen kick, cobruption, Overbrine, and 3 genning allowed killers an entire year of gens taking as long as the killer chose, up to an hour.
We didn't see anyone saying "wow, gens are so slow. I don't have to tunnel anymore!".
What we did see, in huge numbers, was people saying "I have more time to tunnel, and can win games far easier now, so I'm going to tunnel more because I like winning".
Gen speeds are not the actual cause of tunneling in general, as a meta. Demonstrably, provably. With live game data. But that doesn't fit the narrative you want, so you can't admit that.
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They've literally made it so we can't slow down gens like we used to. We've completely lost the ability to damage gens after enough damages now. I can't just hold the gift of a strong three gen usually given to me by the survivors.
Can you acknowledge that if I can only kick a generator so many times to prevent progress I have to resort to something else to show down progress?
Slugging works well because it usually takes two people to solve that problem, and unlike hooking I have zero risk of pallet saves, flashlights, or DS. I definitely signed less when I knew I could just go kick whichever generator I needed to with pop regardless of how many times I kicked it before, which has also been nerfed compared to back in the day.
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Yes, and they should do nothing about it because it’s not a problem for survivors who know how to deal with it. Like I’ve said many times already, tunneling and slugging don’t work against good survivors. The demands that “something has to be done” are coming from players who honestly probably need to get a bit better at sustaining chases or if they’re not the ones being tunneled, get gens done.
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Go watch a comp match, tunneling and slugging is the majority of the play, regardless of which killer is being played. Guess those are bad survivors since it sure seems to work on them. Season 10 of DbdLeague had a 46 percent 4k rate with an average of 2.9 kills per game (72.5% KR). Despite the claims you may see that comp dbd is survivor sided, the actual league stats tell a very different story.
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They've literally made it so we can't slow down gens like we used to. We've completely lost the ability to damage gens after enough damages now. I can't just hold the gift of a strong three gen usually given to me by the survivors.
Can you acknowledge that if I can only kick a generator so many times to prevent progress I have to resort to something else to show down progress?
This is kind of emblematic...
BHVR chose to implement the gen-kick limit at 8 instances. The reason they did so is because, according to their statistics, this was far above the average number of kicks per gen.
You can still stall out a 3-gen effectively and buy yourself a lot of time. You just can't lock it down for a full 60 minutes anymore.
But the idea that this change could hypothetically disadvantage you is apparently enough to put you on tunnelling. This goes against the argument of necessity.
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The bias is real.
- You didn't mention they increased the hook timer.
- Franklin was gutted for absolutely no reason, the only counter to items.
- Abandon features ONLY benefits Survivor, as they can easily pop out and 'win' by their flawed system.
- Pallet density is only getting reverted in most problematic maps that don't need it at all. (Double pallets, etc.)
- Go next prevention is a BUFF survivors by forcing players to play out the match, not ######### on the first hook, dooming all other survivors.
- Survivor having 5s longer endurance/haste for getting off hook. Anti-camp is still going through.
- Shoulder the Burden, one of the most broken perk when used by SWF.
- Ghostnotes pairs perfectly with Vigil/Sprint burst, a perfect braindead build.
Some of your buffs are not even a thing yet, like healing nerf?
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Mb i was genuinlty thinking off top of head but some of your points are not buffs
- hook timer i missed EDIT: hook timers where 2024 after looking it up so not this year)
- Franklins ive also missed
- the abandon feature is not a survivor buff, its a QOL yes but its not a buff that effects gameplay as the match is lost when its active.
- Ok so pallet density is still in small number of maps, wouldn't exactly call that a buff in majority of matches but i will grant that as overlooked
- go net prevention is not a survivor buff as those who want to leave will sandbag or afk regardless, and my point in adding it to surviour nerf is that why isn't there a killer equivalent when they decide to give up and stand at gate? its the double standard
- anti camp is not going through, the only benefit survivors get from it is seeing the anti camp meter granted it is a buff range is being reverted we got longer endurance but best anti tunnel perk was nerfed so its more a trade.
- shoulder to burden was 2024 or would of have more of a list,
- I tried to avoid mentioning perk pairing and stick to just perks in general or buffs or nerfs or else the list would just go on and on for both sides.
so I missed two - three valid points thanks for pointing it out
Edit: yeah decided to complain about medkit nerfs early, seems to work out when killers do it on here cough cough vog vials5 -
I am not exaggerating when I say that at least half of my games a survivor DCs on first hook, if not first down. I am a freaking Pig main for crying out loud. Why are people DCing against a killer that is C tier if you are being generous, but more like D tier?
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I wasn't able to find the old list. Though as I went looking through old threads I realized how frequently this concept has been discussed again and again over the years: also, how much I like to make lists. Anyway, it did basically give me the same ideas:
3: 4v1 - Usually being outnumbered means a huge disadvantage. There is a huge desire to say 'I beat 4 people!', so the backlash to 'actually, you had the easier side' is pretty huge. We see this in the '16 v 4' perk arguments as if those things are at all comparable.
4: Standards - People's view of the game and what the killer should expect have been wildly thrown out of whack. When people talk about the game being killer sides you'll get responses like 'oh, show me winning 20 games with a row with Trapper at high MMR!'. Except that just shows how absurd the standard has become because people are basing the 'killer is harder' on a standard heavily in their favor.
5: Burden shifting - We see some of this in the thread, basically saying all of the pressure should be on survivors. An example of this is Sadako with her high kill rate, people will point out, correctly, that this will change as survivors get better. What never gets discussed is what exactly has the new or low MMR Sadako shown to earn that KR? There's just a constant focus on what the survivors COULD do, without discussing what the Killer HASN'T had to do.
This is a possible way the game could be designed, but you're advocating that the Killer should have a heavy dose of hand holding, and that goes back to my earlier point of no one wanting to win a game that is tilted in their favor.
6: Misunderstanding variability - A single trial is not a huge sample size. If a survivors wins a bunch of 50/50s that looks like they are high skill and unbeatable, but it could easily be ascribed to the survivor just winning coin flips (or even outside 50/50s larger percentages).To take the coin flips, 1 out 8 games survivors will win 4 coin flips in a row and look amazing, 1 out of 8 games the killer will win 4 coin flips in a row and the survivors will look awful. But that's not showing the skill, that's just how probability works over many games.
7: No idea what they missed - If a killer runs by a survivor waiting with a flashlight, but doesn't see them, how would they ever know? Or what if the killer goes for a tunnel and gets gen rushed, they have no idea if they could have stopped it via spreading pressure. This is how when certain forum members post their videos it gets a lot 'those are low MMR survivors, mine are much harder'. But its impossible to know what could have been missed, or how seemingly minor tactical changes could have yielded large changes, and it causes lots of anger when others post matches being able to handle things.
8: Always play the same way - Many players employ the same tactics every game (i.e. tunnel). Thus it seems confusing as why survivors don't just run the counter to that strategy. Except, survivors have to predict multiple possible playstyles, but from the killer perspective they're wondering why survivors aren't just taking the 'strongest' builds.
This can be seen with how you have killers arguing the game is clearly survivor sided, while wildly disagreeing on what the broken build is (i.e. anti-tunnel, healing, gen rushing). An argument about what is broken on the survivor side frequently gives an indication to how the killer probably players (though there are objectively overpowered things on the survivor side just as there are on killer).
9: One sided framing - Trapper vs sweaty 4 person SWF is the common argument. Sure, unfair. So is a soloq without items hitting a sweaty Nurse, but that gets ignored.
Somehow killers have been able to maximize the 'if this goes through, only S tier killers will be played', while survivors have never managed 'if this goes through survivors will only run Iri addons and always play in a SWF', though both are equally possible (by which I mean basically will never happen).
10: Perfect - So in a hypothetical world, if the survivors played perfectly, they'd win. That's because many elements of the game are perfectly predictable. If you were a computer, when the killer begins to approach you'd know exactly whether or not which vaults/pallets you could make it to because the movement rates are predictable.
Except perfection is a horrible metric. I like to compare it to chess. There are people who are professional chess players (compared to what we call 'pros' in DbD) and do it their whole lives, there are many books written on chess strategy, and chess doesn't have the randomness of a game like DbD. Except, its been a long time since the world's best chess player could beat a computer (and we keep making better chess playing computers). Well, because people, even at the most extremes of human ability, always make mistakes. But some killers have latched onto this impossible reality as the standard for how we should discuss the game.
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True in my mind most killer buffs never got reverted properly if it's not super op, but when it comes to survivors it's always bad changes, mods you should stop listening to killer biased players already, and do an actual survey in game for casual and console players since console players couldn't participate in ptb
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It can disadvantage you tho. Unless you are against an S-Tier you can just rat around 1 gen and pre run when the killer comes over, unless the killer wants to lose another gen they cannot commit to chasing you and if you do it for long enough the killer loses any ability to stop that gen from completing. That sounds like a disadvantage to me.
I've had this done to me, and I've done this to other people. It's a good tactic that survivors should be able to use, wonder if killer has any of those.
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camping
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Doesn't change it. You can run that scenario 8 times with regression, and you only lose regression after that, not the ability to defend the gen. If you do the exact same thing the exact same way and get defeated the exact same way eight times, is it really reasonable to demand to be able to enforce an infinite stalemate?
The survivors have to get it right 8+ times. The killer only needs to get it right once.
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The killer has to defend three gens though. I didn't mean everyone just rats around 1 gen, I mean you as an individual tunnel vision 1 gen with maybe one other survivor. Then the others do their own thing, while you pressure this 1 point. Its not hard to run away when you hear a terror radius. If a survivor fails a prerun that's a skill issue, especially when there's other survivors pressuring another point or being as annoying as possible.
I one time had a match with a couple friends against a Myers. The rando Steve gave him a 3 gen (the three gen in nostromo main building) and we used this strat and he could do nothing. He got a 1k with tombstone because the random was terrible and messed up my friend (who I died for so he could get adept). All you have to do is wait for a slight change in tr and then run to a strong tile. It's impossible to die during this process if you do it right, unless you get the killer to commit (in which case they get a 1k or 2k max). Its a slow process but a pretty safe one so long as you have 3 people or more.
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No single player can give a killer a three gen, it either spawned in that way and the killer chose to camp it from the get go or its a team effort that you are blaming on the one person that can't defend themself, since they're not in your voice call. Either you and your friends helped do some of the gens leading to the three gen or this Steve was the only person working on generators.
I have seen three gens spawn in that the huntress could hold a hatchet from the center of and hit anyone working on any of the three generators or walk over to any of the three within 5 seconds. She camped it from the start of the match. Why should the killer be allowed to hold something like that indefinitely? She won, of course, there was no way to break that without comp level coordination. Guess I get to lose for the mistake of playing DBD in the first place.
A three gen can already be used by the killer to stage a comeback, I've done it and I bet you have as well. A limit needs to be placed on these things, otherwise survivors have no chance of, you know, surviving.
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The killer has to defend three gens though. I didn't mean everyone just rats around 1 gen, I mean you as an individual tunnel vision 1 gen with maybe one other survivor. Then the others do their own thing, while you pressure this 1 point. Its not hard to run away when you hear a terror radius. If a survivor fails a prerun that's a skill issue, especially when there's other survivors pressuring another point or being as annoying as possible.
Again, though, you're running into the same problem. The killer only loses the ability to regress after eight instances, not the ability to defend the gens. What you are aiming for here is for the killer to have a permanent lock-out, where survivors simply -cannot- win, which is exactly what had to get removed because it was creating 60 minute hostage matches.
If the killer could keep regressing indefinitely, what would change about the situation you describe? The only thing that would change is that it would -never- resolve unless the survivors just give up.
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what exactly has the new or low MMR Sadako shown to earn that KR? There's just a constant focus on what the survivors COULD do, without discussing what the Killer HASN'T had to do.
It is funny how this is. Personally, when I hop on a killer for the first time, it's not uncommon for me to breeze through 20 wins in a row. That's about when the shift to better opponenets happens, and I end up with survivors who understand the killer far better than I do. So there's this gap in my learning where I now have to sweat and learn at the same time. It's easy to blame the killer's kit but it's really the erratic matchmaking and forced expectations.
This is a possible way the game could be designed, but you're advocating that the Killer should have a heavy dose of hand holding, and that goes back to my earlier point of no one wanting to win a game that is tilted in their favor.
I kinda think it's the other way around, that people can't bear to loose a match that's tilted in their favor. Killers are supposed to get kills and are designed to win more. So if you loose, it hits even harder, because you were already boosted from the get-go. On the flipside, as survivor, when I die to a killer I can see is clearly a bad player but perks, ping, bloodlust, and RNG did half the work, I resign myself to "well I'm designed to loose." In that way, I find survivor to be the sad role, and killer to be the stressful one.
I think that's where this "killer anxiety" silliness comes from. They're the main character and the focus is on them, and they're basically expected to win, so losing hits some too hard.
This is how when certain forum members post their videos it gets a lot 'those are low MMR survivors, mine are much harder'.
I hate how killer players say this, and how they all assume they themsleves are upper MMR and others are lower. You're only making each other feel inadequate, so the situation gets worse. There's also only so many people in upper MMR. You're not all there.
An argument about what is broken on the survivor side frequently gives an indication to how the killer probably players
I also feel this way. Who is telling people to bring Unbreakable, Soul Guard, or Conviction if they're not the problem thise perks address?
'if this goes through, only S tier killers will be played'
I'm always amazed hw much people say this. Does it really convince anyone? Beause you can just play for yourself and see it's not the case. I get wide variety in my matches. Even had a Twins the other day.
So in a hypothetical world, if the survivors played perfectly, they'd win.
I don't understand why this expectation is solely on survivors. I have matches where the survivors are great and I'm whiffing, getting whacked by pallets, getting juiced by people clipping into the walls perfectly, and just looking like an overall fool—then I win. Why did I not only have to play perfect againt good players, but I didn't even have to play well?
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I never said I wanted it removed, as I said I've used this strat and experienced it from the other direction. I find this strat fun to coordinate even if it isnt the most mechanically skilful and I respect survivors coordinated/aware enough to pull it off against me. As I said though the power of this is that the killer is forced into a lose/lose, because they can't be in 3 places at once. If you're aware enough you can progress the gens enough to force a kick without being in chase distance. All you need to do is force the killer to panic because it's impossible to herd cats (the survivors being the cats). All I'm saying that this mechanic can lead the killer into being disadvantaged, and there's nothing wrong with that. Its just like how a killer can force a survivor into near hopeless situations by using the games mechanics.
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There a few take aways from this whole thing. Yes survivors are adaptable and the fact that they have put massive effort into the SM with no positive results while neglecting some killers that need an overhaul. However you can’t babies into a game where there is massive tunneling and camping and expect them to “get good” or learn how to loop.
Without curving tunneling and camping you ultimately shut out the game to new players. Most commenting started at a time when the game was in decent state and learned some methods as they progressed. This is without a doubt backed up by numbers and by the FNAF chapter. BHVR had a staggering 120,000 players then where did they all go? Steam charts show they have hemorrhaged players since . Minor upticks during event months but all in all most of those players left. This doesn’t count into the effect of console players either. But there is your proof they can not keep new players or even ones that come back and dip their toe in. The game itself needs a face lift.
The number one reason players uninstall is because of tunneling and camping. Given most killers have to wait forever for a match tells you there are more killers than survivors. And they can’t blame prestige levels anymore. Yet the devs are ignoring the main face why players quit. Now if you are on business you try and fix the what needs to be fixed in order to attract new players and keep them.
just because tunneling and slugging are not happen in a certain region does not mean it doesn’t exist. Now Asian servers it has been said time and time again there is no toxic game play that the killers actually try. Just because you are seeing something doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem. It can be strong in certain areas but can be detrimental to other areas.
Devs need to stop listening to streamers point blank. Although some may thinks they don’t they do. If you ever watch OTZ he will always criticize a survivor perk and give examples in a non pressure game. This was proven the BTL and the devs literally took what he said word for word and used it in order to nerf it. Same thing with the med kits and boon nerf then they quietly restored and buffed med kits. Point is these streamers would be nowhere without BHVR, who cares if they say they will leave let them someone will take their place. Their views will drop and they will go back. Also they have fans who will follow them and scream to support them.Here is the thing they can’t keep new players and that’s a problem. Yes their cashcow is cosmetics and some will continue to purchase but even I have seen a decline in them. There is no chase anymore no one does gens because they assume every killer will tunnel, camp, and slug. Unless you are in an SWF your odds are terrible and that’s where new players start.
Solutions teleporting hooks simple as that. They do it 2v8 and without the constant aura reading most killers calm down on it. Basket unbreakable when all players are down. If you go 30 seconds after recovery you have the option to leave. Simple yet effective. If all 4 survivors leave killer looses a rank this ensures a hook state and punishing. I know that doesn’t allow for sabos but it’s a price to pay to play the game.
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To be fair, I may be mad at that Steve because he dropped a pallet on my friend and nearly cost his adept. I don't blame the Steve for giving the 3 gen (I don't know the actual chances of 3 gens all spawning in main but it feels low enough to not expect it) I blame him for nearly killing my friend and then having a staring contest with a Myers which led to the tombstone.
You seem to think I want the mechanic to be removed, but I don't, like I said in my reply to firellius I like this mechanic and I don't want it removed. It keeps the match shorter, which lets the game feel more arcadey which I like. However, it can objectively be used against the killer and put them at a disadvantage. Just like we've both probably 3 genned to win, I also guarantee you've used this mechanic to your advantage (just like me).
The only point where I've found this mechanic problematic is in 2v8 where I think the cap should be raised. Other than that it's just balancing the 3 gen mechanic while allowing it to still exist.
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Fair enough, sorry for insinuating you wanted it removed, and I am back on your side about the Steve lol at least as far as tombstone and pallets go. I don't think I have ever seen all three gens spawn in nostromo main, but I tend to prioritize the big table gen on that map since its so central and may have broken (or just died) before noticing it was there.
I would argue that depending on the exact setup, three gens can put the killer or the survivors at a disadvantage, biggest variables being how tight and which killer. Your example would put the killer at a disadvantage, especially old myers, but mine put the survivors at a disadvantage (mine was a weird one on Toba Landing rocky side may not be remembering exactly correctly, far corner gen turned such that the gen was on the side facing most into the map, a gen in the maze tile next to it that spawned as a four lane, lanes open towards the rest of the rocky side, and then one in front of main by the tall stairs, never seen it again and kinda hope that it was just a bugged spawn).
I have absolutely three genned to win and played the long game against a three gen holder to escape.
I disagree with with increasing the cap for 2v8 as I want that mode to remain somewhat loose and two killers can absolutely hold a six gen fairly well as is. I also just don't believe the claims about the mode being mega survivor sided and my personal stats on the mode back that up. Anecdotal I know, but 55% team KR overall and around 63% team KR on killers I actually play mix of duo and solo killer queuing, 63% ER (no idea how many team loss but hatch escapes, it is noted amongst friends I play with how often I seem to get hatch). All while not playing a ton of killer outside 2v8, queue times at the time I play, in my region are longer on the killer side and I would rather get into a match than wait in queue.
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This is a take I hadn't considered. It makes a lot of sense to be honest. 🤔
I do believe both drive the game, for sure. But cosmetics are more so for those that are already here, while the chapters drive numbers. If the former fails, they just have to pull the latter. Or offer more free copies on Epic. 😵
Now you know why I say "in my opinion" like it's going out of style. 🥴 And absolutely. That's the most interesting part to me over the years. I never thought about it too deeply until I played other games in the genre and the same mentality persisted in every single one—"I can't play unless you suffer". It's different from other PVP games.
It's exhausting because players have been having the same exact conversations for nearly a decade now. There's only so much you can say that hasn't been said before and shot down the exact same way every single time. It's like you're juggling constant rejection and the emotions of others. DBD and the community is akin to having a really toxic spouse that you're too invested in to divorce (in my opinion 😏). I'm not above admitting that the exit survey debacle was incredibly frustrating because of how juvenile it was. Or that the rollercoaster with anti-camp/tunnel/slug has been totally draining too. It's a normal thing to lose your cool sometimes or to tap out I think.
This also makes sense. Anyone that learns Survivor knows that the level of skill you need to get ahead is both extensive and easily negated depending on factors beyond your control. However that is constantly downplayed in a number of ways in order for everyone to focus on Killer (which to be fair, has a learning curve of its own especially if you plan on maining more than one).
I think this also is good because it can apply to both sides. If Survivor was really the power role everyone claims that it is, we'd be seeing the same attitude from them as well. I have zero doubt about that.
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Really great points as well. They all align with what we've seen especially since year 6.
Also great additions.
(Not a lot to add, just wanted to give kudos 🥴)3 -
We are mostly in agreement then, I'd still argue that if the survivors can play it right its a fairly safe scenario, the killer is on the back foot and is basically clawing for a kill at that point. My mentality at least would just be to secure one survivor down and hope I can hook/kill to draw away from gens. I only expect a 1k and hope for a 2k if I'm in that scenario (facing 4 survivors and 3 gens).
As for 2v8, it shouldn't be raised much but I feel it should be raised a bit more like maybe 10 or 11 kicks just because the chances of a survivor getting back on that gen is higher. The match should go fast in 2v8, but sometimes they do end up a little short.
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Any survivors want to address the genuine problems killer mains had with the ptb? Or just sling strawmen around?
Additionally, I would like to hear your definitions of slugging and tunneling. Is it tunneling to hook meg, kate, Meg, Adam, Meg? What if a Steve who was just unhooking bodyblocked for his unhooker. Is going after Steve tunneling? Or what if the last survivor who was unhooked jumped on a gen in the killers face? Would hooking them be tunneling?
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Tunneling has had a solid definition ever since Conspicuous Actions were introduced on DS. There's really no point going any deeper than that right now.
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From what I've been able to piece together, yes. All 3 of those scenarios are considered tunneling.
Here is the harsh truth that nobody is willing to admit out loud: they aren't going to be satisfied until it is literally impossible to tunnel on a base mechanic level. What they ACTUALLY want is killers to be required to hook all 4 survivors before they can hook someone a second time. Repeat for stage 2, requiring 8 hooks before you are allowed to kill someone.
What they basically want is survivors to have permanent endurance until all other survivors have equal hook stages to them. No amount of incentives or punishments will stop it because getting a survivor out quickly is just that good.
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Is it tunneling to hook meg, kate, Meg, Adam, Meg?
This needs more context. If Kate gets downed unhooking Meg, you toss her on the same hook and pick up Meg's still fresh trail, hook her again, then Adam does the same trade and the cycle repeats, than yes, it is. You're intentionally targeting the Meg before she can reorientate or heal, while the others are just bonuses. However, it you just find the Meg again, like 30s later, than no.
What if a Steve who was just unhooking bodyblocked for his unhooker.
I don't consider this tunneling (if we're using "tunneling" as a dirty word) regardless of the role I'm playing. I won't necessarily triple hook someone for this, but I will double hook them because they invited it, just Iike I understand that invitation as survivor and usually only bodyblock if the unhooker is on death hook. I'll take the double hook if it keeps someone alive, and I won't compain about it.
Or what if the last survivor who was unhooked jumped on a gen in the killers face?
No. They chose to re-enage instead of slinking away to heal. But personally, I'd probably just slug this person and put them in time out for stupidity.
My personal defintion is actually very narrow. To me, the killer's intent is what defines tunneling. There have been plenty of times where I've been double hooked because of just plain bad luck, like I stumbled onto the killer on accident. I don't blame them for that. But if someone runs away off-hook to heal in a corner and you pursue them, that's true tunneling.
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None of those situations are in fact tunneling and the survivors who think they are have major skill issues.
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Trust me, there aren't enough IMOs in the world to soften some of my more vicious opinions. They will never be revealed.
But I try to mentally keep track of some of the more vocal forum members and how their takes and little tidbits they reveal about their lives connect, and I try to shape them into something whole in my mind, since we're all just words on a screen. It's a whole lot of silly assuming, but it's an amusing pastime, and some patterns do start to emerge.
It's exhausting because players have been having the same exact conversations for nearly a decade now
Funny thing, I occasionally go hunting through old posts looking for some slice of information I want and I'll end up skimming a post from 2020 or something and it's like watching the same people have the same exact discussions, with some people being short and aggressive, and some being thoughtful and detailed—except they've all been banned lol
DBD and the community is akin to having a really toxic spouse that you're too invested in to divorce (in my opinion 😏).
Yeah, I feel this way, like I'm in a bad relationship and I can't leave because I've invested too much time.
I'm not above admitting that the exit survey debacle was incredibly frustrating because of how juvenile it was.
Juvenile is the word. It sometimes feels like you're talking to angsty, faux-persecuted teenagers. There's been posts here where people subtlely reveal their age ranges with some personal info and many seem to be 30-45ish, and I'm always amazed to see these people who I've classified in my mind as fully grown adults get genuinely pressed about a dude in a Mad Hatter top hat and a leopard speedo doing rapid squats, or the ones who get mad that people abandon during the mori because they need to rub the win in their face.
It's a normal thing to lose your cool sometimes or to tap out I think.
This is true though. I noticed when the current ptb drama got really loud and things were looking bleak, a lot of familiar faces quieted down. It's all quite draining.
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"It's all quite draining"
I literally don't have the mental energy to care anymore. It's true what you said, about reading older posts and it's just everyone repeatedly arguing about the same things. I've removed any and all expectations for this game, because expectations just lead to disappointment. As long as killer is still fun for me, I'm here. It's my only saving grace because I hate playing survivor now.
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Watching things crash and burn cause this community can't let us have nice things is equally exhausting. Even seeing the writing on the wall, the second revert hit me harder than I thought it would. I'd rather them just do nothing then act they will and then not.
I want to love survivor but I don't know what I'll do if I run out of friends that keep it fun, and making more through soloq is hard on my already stunted social meter. I don't see myself going back to being a killer-only player either. It feels like players just get burnt out and pushed out, then replaced with new ones.
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For me there are three types of tunneling.
- Going for one from the start.
- Getting one out at a later point in time when the other survivors have a lot less hook stages.
- Forced tunneling that is the survivors fault by blocking me with the basekit endurance.
I generally have nothing against slugging because I think it has enough counterplay, but I wished the survivors would get faster crawling speed when pressing a button at the cost of bleeding out 2 times faster. It would also be nice if survivors woukd get basekit unbreakable when the killer does refuse to pick any survivor up after having all 4 slugged.
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What update? There is none.
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