http://dbd.game/killswitch
Which builds would you dodge?
Hello everyone,
since the topic of showing the perks from your teammates was brought up I was thinking about this question.
Which builds or perks would be a lobby dodge for you?
Comments
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Rat builds.
9 -
Full sabo/flashlight in solo q
Just nuh
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I'd try not to dodge against anything, lobby dodging is Quite Bad for the game, but I can acknowledge that my commitment to that would be tested if I saw someone doing unhookable build shenanigans.
I don't want any part of that nonsenseโฆ
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None.
The only correct response for dodging cause you're afraid your teammates have a sub standard build:
๐
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What exactly is a "sub standard" build?
To answer the question, I would agree that rat and sabo builds would be dodge-worthy, because I know they're not planning to do the objective. I already dodge lobbies when all three of my teammates are bringing flashlights.
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Gonna try running no mither, resurgence, self care and object when changes come, see how many dodge ๐
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I was mostly just having fun ๐
However in seriousness, what you define as sub standard is up to you. However to assume someone will play a certain way and avoid said player is literally prejudice...
- Does having a Distortion or Lightweight immediately mean a Survivor will rat?
- Does having a sabotage bulld, or a boon build, or a plunderer build, or an invocation build mean the player is auto throwing?
- Does having an adept mean this player is a liability who is gonna throw the game?
You can make assumptions about this player, but that's all they are, assumptions... and even if you're right... why does that stop you from playing the game to the best of your ability? If anything, this is an opportunity to test yourself, and work on how you can play better.
Outside of my playful dig, it's not inaccurate to say avoiding a player because they MIGHT do something that hinders your chances of victory is gatekeeping the game at best, and cowardice at worst.
Legit if I was to see a David adept, I would straight up think "Alright David, let's go, we're getting you that adept". That to me is what a gamer should be striving to do.
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Self care and urban evasion are major red flags. Also, anyone bringing an invocation perk pretty much guarantees a loss.
Edit - almost forgot about No Mither!-2 -
Honestly, nothing. Abandon solved almost every single issue I have with my teammates.
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I hate to be prejudice, but I've had more than enough experiences for them to be justified.
One time I played with a bully squad against Wesker. They were just screwing, trying to get all the blinds and what not while I was off all alone doing gens. Only got one done, because of course I also had to help with the hook saves. What should I have done better there?
-1 -
Honestly none, I'll play any survivor squad, but if I gun to my head had to pick one to say no to it would be bully squad builds revolving around background player, head on, flashlight/flashbang wglf all that stuff. Basically you can't hook me builds.
2 -
None
I don't let builds sway me and I try to adapt to whatever anyone has to my best ability.
I also run builds people would probably dodge so idk if I can say much.6 -
Is fair enough, and all good, as I say I'm just playing really, so no judgements from me... we're talking about a game after all ๐
There is the argument that time is the most valuable resource in your life, you certainly don't inherently owe anyone else your time (at least until you've agreed to give up your time by starting the trial)... and if you suspect people are gonna waste your time, it's no one else's business whether you dodge or not really...
I take the philosophy that I don't really care if I win or lose in DBD, I still believe in and like the horror concept of DBD... I know people say this isn't a horror game anymore, but I personally believe horror is more than just if you're scared or not.
So like in this hypothetical horror scenario, if I have say, I dunno a person with me in this scenario who was in a wheelchair... like Franklin in TCM. The reality of that situation is that person is a liability that actively hinders my ability to escape the trial... the pragmatic choice is to give up on that person and focus on keeping myself alive... but the much more human response is to risk yourself and help this person... now instead of a person in a wheelchair, we have a noob, or a David adept, or whatever... it's the same principle and the game is testing me on how I approach that problem.
Similarly we consider someone like Rourke in Aliens, someone who is actively worming against the group for their own ends. This is effectively the same thing as someone who is ratting... do I set them up to die myself, or do I stick to trying to be a team payer in spite of the group distrust?
What about those gung ho/blase characters, the typical jock characters in horror that get themselves killed early by being overconfident and ignoring the threat until it's too late? This is effectively the same thing as your aggressive flashlighters and alike... do I forgo trying to save everyone and save myself.likenthe Final Girl idea? Or do I still assume the usual risks to save these idiots from themselves?
These kinds questions are interesting to me, and allow me to still mostly emjoy the game whether I win or lose... assuming some idiot doesn't unhook me right in front of a Ghoul, Blight, or Wraith with literally 60s still on my hook timer...
I will admit if I had some crystal ball way of knowing someone was gonna do that I'd probably ditch the lobby ๐คฃ
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Self-Care, No Mither, any Invocation perk.
There's a lot of throw perks, tbh.
If I'm gonna subject myself to Solo Q, I'm gonna do everything possible to try to have a good match.
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These comparisons you make are interesting but there's a big element missing: the protagonists don't understand their situation beforehand. Do you think Ripley would have agreed to go back out if she'd known Burke was treacherous? Or that Franklin would have even been present if the group had any thought there'd be danger? Team-visible perks will change that aspect completely.
You might have accidentally made the best argument against the idea of that visibility. The element of surprise will be missing. Maybe it'd be better if you didn't see their perks until you were in the game.
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Yeah... I mean that's pretty good point I cant really rebuff. ๐
I surmise that is probably the reason why such a feature hasn't been implemeted already to be fair ๐
I suppose if I was to try and defend the point, I would say you can't inherently know just based on perks... buuut the element of "surprise" certainly dips... soooooโฆ
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If they show perks in the pregame lobby, it'll be kill switched in less than 60 days. Why? Because new players will essentially be blocked from playing the game. Anytime a player sees yellow or green perks in the lobby, they will just dodge. It'll be nearly impossible for them to get a match. I know some of you on this forum have no problem with teaming up with new players, but sadly you'll be in the minority. Most will just quit and uninstall after waiting 10 to 15 minutes for a team willing to give them a chance.
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there are perks id dodge as killer( Finesse Lithe gamers are the most boring people to face. waste of time) but as Survivor idc.
id like to think using bad perks will make you try harder. if people quit because of my perks.โฆGOOD! I don't need people having meltdowns because I revealed Treacherous Crows. if you don't use that perk you don't understand how your team will work with the killer because they hate you. so if these people dodge good riddance.
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then there's vets like me that would bust out Bill with No One Left Behind in the hopes I can get that new person to stay, because this game hemorrhages new players...
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Let's pray that BHVR's MMR fix will...wellโฆfix that so that new players will only get matched with other new players.
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- I often use perks that the community hates (spider invocation, no mither, red herring etc etc), I won't dodge any lobby because of the perks. But I would be """afraid"""of a build that is too stealth-focused, or too altruistic (sabotaging hooks, flashlight)
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Left Behind is a perfect perk to avoid.
No matter what scenario, there is no real use of this outside of rats.
Sole Survivor, Self-preservation, even Low Profile can have niche uses outside this. Not Left Behind.
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I think that the reason why perks load out should be seen only after loading in match. I used sole survivor and hatch offering, but wasnโt afraid asking for killer attention to give team some time.
I just had many situations where stay alone in a trial. And for instance, killer camping gates. Sole survivor also help in 2 vs 1 scenarios, and can dodge some aura read for reset. Plus bonus for faster opening when itโs really needed.I wouldnโt try to dodge every build I donโt like, but seeing 3 people with some altruistic or meme builds isnโt my choice. I had too many situations where such trios (or duos) trade teammates without regret in sake of personal fun. Only to contribute for killer win rate later
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I am usually too lazy to pay attention and just do something on other monitor, so probably none.
If I would care then either rats, or boon builds.
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As others have brought up, new players would be dodged into oblivion, and those trying for adepts as well. Especially David.
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So we know this is an issue. Would putting a DC penalty on leaving a lobby work? I dont see why not. If you're against such a change, that doesn't mean you're a chronic dodger, but Id like to know why.
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I'd rather them not implement this at all if they put forth such a penalty. There are enough penalties making people mad and they already feel like a way to not just avoid a problem but to compound it.
And I prefer to call it lobby browsing ๐
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Is being able to dodge a lobby problematic at all? Everyone seems to do it, but also vilify it. I don't understand lol.
The idea something implemented needs a penalty is ridiculous lol. I retract said proposal. Not sure why I didn't see that.
Obligatory humor: I'd wager they implement this, and a bug is birthed that voids all perks you equip.
For a year.
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It's causes a random backfill is my understanding. So if a high MMR killer dodges a high high MMR team then a baby killer could potentially take there place. I will admit it messes up matchmaking.
I recently mentioned in another thread how I popped into TCM, lobby-dodged because it was taking too long, and got a three minute penalty. Then I turned the game off. Pretty sure that would make people either do a lot of that or commit to matches they're unhappy with before they even load in and throw/grief.
That'd actually be funny as hell, but I'll raise you and say everyone goes in perkless. Would actually be cool.
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Then maybe the solution is no lobby at all? Their MMR system does its thing, the killer sees items and can change their build if they wish, and everyone loads in. No backfilling nightmares for either role.
I bet over time this would drastically improve their matchmaking. Would certainly lessen those distasterous steamrolls whenever a rookie is placed with the vets.
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As long as people are playing for the team somehow I donโt care what they bring. Iโm only dodging a build that is clearly only designed for a solo escape (key + hatch offering + stealth perks + sole survivor and wake up) because I know that person isnโt going to participate in the game.
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A locked lobby might be the solution, I'm just selfishly biased because I've been enjoying a Franklin's/Weave build and I need at least a few people to have items to get value, and a surprising amount of people don't bring anything. But that's just me. I could always switch builds and be salty about it.
But you'd still have the issue of other survivors not liking what they see, particularly if the perks become visible. Not much you can do with your own build to counter a rat build. Even beyond perks, I'm sure much dodging occurs from being able to see people's hours. This is, again, the possibility of people being tilted before even going in. I think you'd have to have no visibility at all. The game just loads you in with people and no one sees anything beforehand.
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The game just loads you in with people and no one sees anything beforehand.
Been wanting this forever. Literal solution to lobby problems. I've heard killers complain its needed to get their info. I don't buy it, but even if that is the case, it doesn't out weight the gains received by no lobby. imo anyway.
My biggest gripe with lobby dodging (lol) is the backfill. If I load in as survivor and the killer immediately leaves, I'm following suit. I've had newer killers show up and get stomped while I'm just on a hill watching. They just get destroyed. I don't want any of that.
So fix the backfill issue or remove the lobby imo. There are better options likely, but I can't find them right now lol
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I think it would be for the best. The worst issue to me is being able to see people's hours, especially since the killer can see the survivors' hours but not the other way around. Seeing their characters and items is one thing, but seeing their Steam profiles is super unfair, not to mention potential stream sniping.
But yeah, you don't need to see the survivors. Even with me running my item-based build, I can function even if half of my perks are null. You shouldn't be crutching on perks that hard anyway.
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Thanks for all these answers.
I see the discussion has finally started and I am happy to take part in it, because I saw the problematic things that can happen when you can see each others builds. Sorry I had to do it this way but I needed honest answers not an eccho camber of "No We would never do this" while I still see that Lobby dodging for some survivors is a huge problem.
Adept players and Stealthplayers (Ratplayers), non meta perks and boon builds will have a hard time to find a match if their mates are looking at their perks.
My personal solution would be to show the perks of your teammates when the loading screen into the match starts. You would get more information of your team without the risk for hours of lobby dodging.
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Also Burke! I pulled Rourke randomly out of my brain and didn't realise until this very second, cheers for that correction xD
It's an interesting point in general I suppose, cause obviously the RNG elements of DBD maps are meant to reduce the "map knowledge" elements of DBD and maintain this first time experience idea as much as possible... obviously these systems weren't built with 10'000 hour players in mind...and I guess most balance areas of the game aren't ๐ค
I suppose game knowledge does kinda inherently and inevitably do a number on "experiences" aspects of the game... I suppose in game design "meta" sense, thats why many players advocate for systems that are much more mechanics focused, instead of the theme... after a certain point of gamer experience, the theme doesn't really matter anymore...
E.g. A Wizard in a fantasy game after a point no longer cares about their lore and characters place in world, and becomes more interestimg in finding a emerald dark embued staff with a +4 int modifier ๐
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I cannot see other player's hours unless they're also on Xbox, and I think the couple of times I was curious was after the trial anyway. Sounds like it's much easier to view such things on PC, but globally the vast majority of the playerbase is on the consoles anyway. For me at least I see the CrossPlay globes constantly ๐ ๐.
I agree having no lobbies solves all that directly.
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Shouldn't be an issue what a player is bringing since there's so many self-proclaimed "casuals" in the game right? Just have fun, right?
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To be fair, the people who'd dodge lobbies over perks and the people who say the game is more casual and just for fun probably aren't the same.
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Wishful thinking, lad. I'd like to think the same as well.
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I'm not on PC either. The globe just means they're not on what you're on, and I mostly have the globe as well. I play with people on PC and they can see most of the other people's profiles. I'd venture or say most of the players I come across are on Steam. I don't know why that is, with the ease of access of both consoles and this game (free on PS Plus and I'm guessing the Xbox equivalent) but it seems to be the case.
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I knew which slimy individual you were referencing haha.
Horror relies on literary irony to build tension. When you watch a horror movie, you know something bad is coming, but the protagonists don't. That's the primary source of initial tension--you know, they dont. It's Hitchcock's bomb analogy. Later in a film, both you and the protagonists know about the same amount, and now the tension relies on how it will end.
All horror games loose that pretty quickly. You're the protagonist and you know there's a monster, so that parts null. What's left is the parts you don't know. But play against the same killer 500 times and the tension is zero. RNG does give you a little, yeah. Not being able to see the killer when they can see you also helps. But there's only so much you can do. After awhile, it's barely horror at all.
For me, the only real surprises/tension in DbD are as survivor during clutch end game saves. Those are stressful. I'd love for the events to be less like regular mode with a twist and more like a totally different game. Light Outs had it close. Axe the hooking and gen system though and change it to something else. I think completely different objectives in temp modes would do this game a world of good. It would be a breath of fresh air.
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This is why lobby dodging should be punished. We already have to wait 60s for every match to start, IN ADDITION to the queue times. If you're increasing that wait because you want to unload your bad luck on someone else, and you want to know AITA, then 100% yes. You are.
I know people can ready up and reduce that 60s to something lower, but it basically never happens. Please ready up and try to think of someone else for a change.
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I wouldn't be dodging lobbies. But then I think that showing your team's perks in the lobby is a pretty bad idea. We shouldn't be giving players a reason to lobby dodge if we want to give the MMR system a shot at working.
I think there are better ways to show beneficial perks to other Survivors within the trial itself. They're kind of already half way there with the little icon that pops up in the corner with perks like Vigil and We'll Make It. All they need to do is expand on that. Why not make perks like Botany Knowledge or Desperate Measures pop up for injured teammates whenever they are nearby? Or something to show that Soul Guard or Unbreakable is in play if the team is slugged.
They could make also make a Head On locker glow within a certain range for Survivors that are being chased by the Killer. Things like this would definitely take more work but it would be a better way to do things than to encourage more lobby dodging.
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Yeah it's been on Xbox Gamepass for years now. From what I understand, what platforms we're mixed with depends on time of day, our own MMR, and especially region.
Those in Asia and NA tend to be on a console, while Europe is much more PC heavy and are more often tossed in with those using VPN's from further and/or restricted spots Also those on PC tend to be in the higher MMR areas due to a ton of reasons. But overall, the largest portion is on one of the PlayStations like you are. Globally.
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I think there's an even simpler way of getting the job done than that, actually- put it in the Match Details screen, the thing that pops up if you press Tab on keyboard, idk what it is on controller.
That way you can give players the ability to check their teammates' entire build on the fly for better information, without having to code in a bunch of different notifications, but also in a way that stops lobby dodging based on people's wildly different perceptions of what the throw picks are.
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This probably should have been in the game back when CrossPlay was first introduced imo. One of the ways to lessen the gap between solos and SWF, and most of us would be super used to it by now too.
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That's kinda nuts, considering how much less Playstioners I see. Maybe like three every five matches. The only time I've seen more is during 2v8, where I ended up in whole lobbies of them, which was kind of startling. Felt like crossplay was broken or something. It was so weird to me to see no globes that I took screenshots.
Are those numbers available somewhere? I've been curious about player count by platform.
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Unfortunately no game puts out console numbers in the history of forever. ๐คฃ The various UEA's prevent it. But I can give rough overall estimates.
For DBD the largest chunk is on the various PlayStations, something like 26% of the whole. Next would be those on an Xbox or on Steam, around 20ish% each. Then would be those on a Switch around 16%, and next those on on Epic and Windows make up the rest. Stadia is long dead and never accounted for many players anyway.
Since active Steam numbers are known we can roughly extrapolate the global breakdown. I imagine those on Epic could be found as well.
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Honestly, none. I don't think perk choice is reflection of skill. But i would imagine No Mither and Invocation users would get dodged alot.
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