http://dbd.game/killswitch
When will we hear ANYTHING from the devs, mods etc regarding tunneling?
every since that update didn’t go through- killers have been so annoying with the tunneling, it’s like every SINGLE game. We are complaining and complaining and it seems NO ONE is listening. Can we get an update regarding this anti tunneling update? All we heard was it wasn’t going through no information on if there needs to be more testing or anything at all. We know you all see our messages but when will you all make a post, stream etc regarding this? Us survivors have HAD enough!
Comments
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With the current state of the game balance, tunneling is a necessary condition for just having a chance at winning against a competent SWF on comms. They will run 16 second chance perks and take 7 hits for each hook state each, making it only possible to secure a kill if you just focus one guy. You will finish consuming his endurances and hastes just when they pop the last gen, if you are lucky. If tunneling becomes impossible, but SWFs continue to be allowed to the general queue and second chance perks are not nerfed, the kill rate will drop to 5% at the higher MMR brackets, and these 5% will be due to the cheaters with insta kill bots.
If you are tired of playing survivor - just play killer, and after a few 4k's and leaving the baby MMR bracket you will start encountering the invincible quartets and the Achaemenid immortals I'm talking about, you will quickly change your mind after hitting a guy 8th time in a row and still failing to actually hook him.
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Tbh Im starting to see way more cheaters than those hardcore tunneling killers (the core of tunneling problem is when killer at the start targets only one survivor untill he is dead and doesnt go for others in between his hooks, I understand that if killer has no hooks on 2 gens left than it makes sence because there is no chance or super low he can win just by playing normaly with hooking everyone).
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If you want to punish killer players for tunneling then you need punish survivors for rushing gens. Killers have had enough they share their complaints which had all been ignored when survivors are free to gen rush. This is a PvP game can't just ignore one side of the coin when making changes that'll heavily impact the other side.
Either try playing killer yourself and not just the strongest killers try playing a weaker C tier or lower killer like Trapper and try to get at least a 3k against against a good SWF team. Tunneling has to be part of the game so killer players can at least have a chance to win. Don't like it? Then just get better at playing and accept its part of the game.
Post edited by BlackRabies on-21 -
We need to continue giving feedback and mentioning the issue, especially during Q&A streams. The issue is the delay in revisiting scrapped ideas, I don't think they consider it game breaking; so a new system will likely be worked on later down the road. It all depends on what is planned months from now.
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For me Tunneling isnt an issue. Only on ghoul and blight who can come back to hook too quickly and requires great coordination to beat. Otherwise you can just take the meta perks and be a good looper. If you want to beat the meta then you gotta play meta. Sadly the way dbd is at higher level. Then the tunnel will actually be detrimental to the killer, if he doesnt get the fast down.
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May I ask, what tools are you actually referring to with the idea of needing to hit someone seven times for each hook state?
Even accepting that as hyperbole, I'm struggling to think of ways survivors have to reliably take more than one extra hit to down that aren't dedicated anti-tunnel.
Dead Hard gives them a potential extra hit if you're playing one of the killers whose attacks are telegraphed enough to DH on reaction, so that's three total hits, but what else do they actually have? Endurance doesn't stack with itself and even if it did, a lot of the tools for it in this regard have been steadily changed over the years.
Dead Hard also requires a hook to activate, so they don't have access to it for their first hook.If you're not tunnelling someone (which is I assume the central assumption here), then how do they take more than the one potential extra hit from Dead Hard with any regularity?
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Anwser:
When they come back from their holiday vacation.-1 -
good way to counter tunneling is:
- stealth…. thats not hiding in lockers all match, by stealth i mean do gens but dont get seen, when in chase walk around corners, lose line of sight and lose the killer.
- when stealth fails, loop…. if you loop well enough the killer will either throw the match by over committing or they will be smart and abandon the chase to go for a weaker player.
I recorded a full match recently v bubba, in the first like 10 seconds of the match he was on me so my stealth failed. i kept him in chase for about 1min 30sec then just before he was about to lose 3 gens he abandoned that chase. He chased me again a few min later and i took him to shack where he stopped chasing me again, pretty much ignored me the whole match after that point. if i was a weak looper and bubba decided to tunnel, i would have been out fast but the fact i wasnt an easy down for him meant any tunneling potential was countered.
-10 -
You're holding people to a high skill-level standard. A brand new killer can easily tunnel. A brand new survivor cannot just bring meta and loop well. The problem is average killers are not equal to average survivors in what they can pull off.
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Can we stop using SWF as an excuse. Not every player is in a SWF and even then there are plenty in a group that are just casual jimmies, they are not comp or navy seals or going to roll every single killer, they are just some players wanting to have a little fun with friends. Good SWFs are a problem sure, but if BHVR actually implemented a way to recognise when a group is preformed in a lobby they could have addressed this issue long ago.
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you’re absolutely right but my point stands. Eventually people get better not worse so this should not be ignored as well as the average casual’s experience
-11 -
They already responded via their actions. They don't care about tunneling.
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I enjoy being able to be a nice, wholesome killer by bringing rancor+ noed; i don't need to tunnel if I'm practically guaranteed a 2k every match. perfectly balanced games. I hope bhvr can encourage not tunneling in a way that feels satisfying and not just playground rules
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Highly doubt it. They dont really care much about it and will just give us the silent treatment on this. You will see BHVR staff on the Forums active in random Threads, but none of them in any threads which are about tunneling.
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generally the swf team that goof around and just want to have fun are in the lower end of mmr. people dont get to high mmr by messing around, they play to win. so the good swf teams that are a problem are more common in high mmr. Also in high mmr you will see more blights and s tier killers because they are pretty much the only ones that can stand these teams which is why things are fairly balanced and swf escape rates are not higher. what happens when a low tier killer gets pushed into high mmr? they get demolished….unless they tunnel.
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they dont care at all
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Tunneling is easy to define, you lock in and target one person until they are dead ignoring anyone else. (for context I support punishments such as faster gens, gen regression perks disabled for killers for tunneling if they have exclusively 3 hooked someone and no one else, so if killers just hooked one person more they would avoid punishment, It was in first iteration of PTB but was the requirements for hooks was too high imo)
What would be defined as gen rushing tho? Some killers I see will cry in egc about gen rushing meanwhile no toolboxes and one or two gen perks.
where would the line be with gen rushing?
will it be based on how many hooks have been done compared to gens? If so that is abusable and can prox in non gen rushing situations, when a killer is just playing bad and needs to get good as you've told survivors to do with tunneling.
If something like this is truly needed I would go based on the time in match vs gens done (if x amount of gens have been done before x minutes) but if punishment was too much would lead to killers like ghoul and blight letting the first few gens pop to get the benefit while still being able to apply pressure with hooks.
That's why we cant have gen slow down punishments. there is too much of a difference between the power of blight and ghoul vs trapper and skull merchant. you said yourself "try playing killer and not just the strongest" but if we where to get punishments for gen rushing them same "strongest" killers would benefit.2 -
Mind you, they promised they would do something 9 months ago.
And now its scrapped, that hope and idea is as good as dead, even if they give out more ptb or "future ideas".
Either because the idea is bad or even if the idea like basekit unbr the longer and more you slug overall, is objectively a good addition, killers will never go along with it.
The only thing they can do is a whole meta shake up which makes both sides relearn how to win a game.
Not just genrushing/looping or tunneling and slugging.
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This is the same excuse people have used to hitting off hook with no bt protection, camping or using noed.
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Why would the devs listen to a bunch of emotional noobs demanding a change that would prevent most of the killer roster from being able to stop survivors from escaping in advanced play?
The only way that hardcore blockages on "tunneling" could work is if it becomes physically impossible to complete all gens in under 4 minutes. Too many of you stop your thought process at getting what you want without considering if there would still be a contest afterward.
Most of the survivor horde evidently thinks that every killer has the same level of power and that they should all be forced to play for 12 hooks (in perfect rotating order) on top of multiple second chances inside of a 4-minute timer and that "if they're good enough" they can still stop everybody no matter which killer is being played.
Unironically complaining that you're not being listened to when you're literally asking the dev to break the contest of the game for your own egoic satisfaction = WeirdMaxxing
DbD is becoming one gigantic lesson in game design about what happens when you continuously make developments off the copium-based opinions of game-scrubs.
In reference to the true definition of the word "scrub" as far as game design goes - https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
-16 -
The answer is they aren't going to they scrapped it and I doubt they'll revisit it even if they tried to it'll just be the same outcome Killers will riot and pretend it's the end of DBD and get any change scrapped.
The only way we can get Devs to listen is to just show were sick of how miserable playing Survivor is and just stop playing.
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indeed, so with that in mind, what is the best solution?
-5 -
Why would the devs listen to a bunch of emotional noobs demanding a change that would prevent most of the killer roster from being able to stop survivors from escaping in advanced play?
Well, they listened to the emotional noobs on the Killer side, so no reason not to listen to Survivors.
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I don't think they want to go down that rabbit hole again. They can't fix tunneling, gen rush etc without destroying the balance in "normal" gameplay.
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You are winning 60% of your matches no matter what.
Seems more like a skill issue to not being able to handle a little challenge once in a while instead of just going on winstreaks.
Dont believe me?, go find a swf who is willing to try this and you will not go past 20, garantied.
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Maybe in the imaginary other-world where killer mains only run into seal team 6 every game Tunnelling is necessary, in the real world that we actually live in you can win without tunnelling with ease if you’re paying even the smallest amount of attention
You are not dealing with 4 man SWF goof troops every match, going out of your way to win serves no purpose, stop hiding behind the idea of needing to tunnel in order to win
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Killer players for tunneling , is not equivalent to survivors for rushing gens ———— the former is far worse than the latter.
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I got the impression that that was it, they have no more plans. I think they're hoping upcoming matchmaking changes do the job
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care to explain the difference?
Both are efficient ways to win.
Both have a direct connection to speed…fast gens v fast kills.
Both apparently boring.
Both lead to the match being over quick which effects the potential fun someone can have in such a short match.
Both require very little skill.
-10 -
You need tunneling to win against a decent SWF.
You don't need tunneling to win against soloQ.
But if they make tunneling impossible, winning against decent SWFs will also become impossible. As you can see, the problem is once again not in "killer vs survivor" balance, but in "soloQ vs SWF", this is what needs fixing first and foremost.
-9 -
It also shows how flawed the current matchmaking is. Usually tunneling in the past was something killers in the red ranks were doing, and most killers below that were rarely tunneling, because the survivors were also more casual below the red ranks.
I remember many times getting super-close matches where anything could happen when the last gen popped.This is something that hardly ever happens anymore, because it is one extreme against another.
I have many times been matched up against baby survivors who stood zero chance against me, and I have also been matched up against countless comp killers who insta hard-tunnel at 5 gens left. It seems near impossible to get actual balanced matches nowadays, which is probably the reason why the game is growing increasingly toxic.You play killer and do well a few games in a row.. Here, have a comp-level survivor team that you can't ever hope to beat, unless you play like the sweatiest comp player yourself.
Then you lose a few games in a row, and you end up against Little Timmy who just installed the game, and proceed to absolutely stomp his team, because your mindset is now instilled on tunneling.
Then you decide to play survivor soloQ, and you get matched with a lot of Timmys, where the game expects you to hard-carry them against a comp Blight, who eats them for breakfast, before you even get a chance to work on a gen.
And a few matches later, you get put on a team of super-cracked teammates who knows every little trick in the book, where you are matched against a Timmy Trapper, who doesn't even know how to place traps.
That is how inconsistent the matchmaking truly feels like.So, with all of that in mind, this is where we go to the forums or whatever channel we like to use to relay our problems to BHVR, and start complaining about tunneling, genrushing and whatnot, when the real issue is the matchmaking itself.
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truth is that killer mains are the loudest voices on the big social media platforms so BHVR caters to their politics for fear of losing profits, since they threaten to uninstall and post melodramatic doom videos the second survivors are given something even remotely useful like fog vials
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Everything needs an explanation, which shows someone’s thinking is too rigid.
Tunnel forces survivors to immediately lose the gaming experience, and there is certainly more than one affected in a single match.
Only an extreme killer obsessed with a 4-kill streak, like you, would forget the essence of the game and mercilessly take down every survivor.
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Quite the opposite, survivor mains are the majority on this forum, it's clear by the upvote/downvote ratio on any post concerning the balance. This is why the game becomes increasingly more survivor favored, as the devs quickly implement any upvoted request and ignore any downvoted opinion.
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just loud and wrong
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this forum isn't where most of the feedback comes from. the game is heavily killer-sided, objectively speaking. struggling on killer role is a serious skill issue. its funny, I watched a recent dev live stream on Youtube and a dev asked chat to type K, S, or B to see if you're a killer main, survivor main, or hybrid player. chat was overwhelmingly flooded with K's.
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Just disregard. This person has a pattern of posting things to bait killer players, telling them they are bad at the game if they struggle, that’s it’s “EZ mode”, etc, even though they don’t play killer themselves. I even asked them to provide any evidence that I’m wrong about this, but they didn’t response and just downvoted me instead. It’s very toxic and intentionally divisive but unfortunately it’s not against the forum rules, apparently.
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you're just mad that I'm calling out the truth. it IS EZ mode, lol. lets not beat around the bush here. there's a reason the kill rates approach the 70th percentile for most killers, and let me assure you, its not because playing killer is particularly difficult. a balance so in favor of one side is unprecedented in PvP gaming history.
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60% kill rate isn't a 60% win rate.
1k and 2k games contribute to the kill rate but aren't wins.
-13 -
I'm not agreeing with them, both roles are difficult and have their issues but this game tends to snowball for one side or the other. From my personal recording 2k is the least common outcome and while there are some killers that are basically guaranteed a kill in endgame if they get someone on hook (like bubba) most of the time if there are four survivors alive in endgame four survivors get out the gate. Same goes the other way, every 3k counts one escape but if the killer gets a 3k they usually get the 4k, either by slugging to deny hatch or just winning the hatch/gate game which generally favors the killer.
I would love if BHVR released stats on how many games result in each outcome, ideally further broken out by killer and multiple MMR ranges (alongside numbers showing what percentage of the playerbase is in each bracket). Those stats would likely even change my view on some things in the game but as things currently stand the most likely cause of a 60% kill rate is simply killers get more 3k and 4k matches than they get 0k and 1k matches.
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I don't think you need to be gatekeeping opinions behind stat requirements.
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Sorry, you are right. We should be encouraging more people who only play one side to post multiple comments telling the other side that they have “skill issues” and their side is “EZ mode” when someone says that they struggle with that side. We ought to have a lot more blatant “us vs them” antagonizing on this forum.
-6 -
I think forcing people to post their stats or be disregarded as a troll is a dangerous game to be playing.
Not everyone wants to, not everyone is able to. You shouldn't be forced to do so in order to have an opinion.
If that's the route you want to go, we may as well lock the Forum unless you have a verifiable amount of hours in each role.
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There is a very big difference between having an opinion and going out of your way to create threads and post comments that tell people that they are bad at the game if they struggle with a particular role. Even if they do post their stats to show that they play the role, it’s still incredibly toxic to do that and creates a very unwelcome environment on the forum for people who struggle with a particular role, I don’t care what side it is. If they in fact don’t play that role at all, then it’s clearly solely intended for trolling purposes to pick a fight. It’s completely fair game to ask someone who is doing this to post their stats. It’s not like I’m going around asking random forum members to do this like some kind of documentation check. It was with one particular member who was going out of their way to antagonize people, so if they’re going to do that, then they should expect others to challenge them on it. I’m kind of surprised that you are apparently ok with people doing this as you seem to usually have pretty fair opinions on both sides.
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I'm "okay" with it because it's an inevitability. It will happen regardless.
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Not everything is as severely biased as you want it to be. Almost everyone I know plays both roles and wants both to be in a good place.
Also, every recent attempt to do anything for survivors has been nuked by feedback. Fog vials, anti-tunnel, anti-slug, and anti-camp were all recent casualties. Ten upvotes on a mildly populated forum isn't changing this game.
They will run 16 second chance perks and take 7 hits for each hook state each, making it only possible to secure a kill if you just focus one guy. You will finish consuming his endurances and hastes just when they pop the last gen, if you are lucky
Does your KR actually reflect this hyperbole?
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They are on break. You will need to wait until next year.
Stop tunneling this topic. They are already testing ways to "fix" it.
-17 -
They said they are not gonna pursue this anymore because after two iterations, both failed to make the game better overall. Instead they are looking at better tutorials and matchamaking.
Like it or not i think it is time to accept tunnelling as part of the game.-5 -
So you provide no explanation at all. gen rushing also forces killers to lose the gaming experience.
I think you have forgotten what the point to the game is. i will remind you. Survivors need to try to escape, killer need to try to eliminate the other players from the match before they escape. This is the essence of the game but people like you seem to want the ability to gen rush and escape fast while denying the killer the ability to kill fast.
So i ask again, can you provide an actual explanation why rushing the objective for killer is not comparable to rushing the objective for survivor? is the only difference between the 2 being you only play survivor?
-14 -
Wouldnt explain all the nerfs soloq and survivor had this year and before that.
Why did conviction get nerfed?.
Why did fog-vials get nerfed to the ground, 2 weeks into release? While kaneki was left untouched.
Why did bhvr listen and fix streetwise and not kaneki kidnap?.
Streetwise and fog-vials were fixed before kaneki 4 months later in september.
Why would they nerf soloq with map offerings nerfs, oblivious perk buffs (or pinhead's perk being general) and spawn rules nerfing survivors even if you never played the meta.
Why would they nerf adrenaline and distortion?. Years before that?.
Why wont they nerf myer's thombstone addons until 9 years later?.
Why wont they nerf nurse or her addons?.
Why would they make killers consistently overtuned in power be released in such a state?.
And it keeps piling on if your statement is true, but its not.
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