Why Generator Completion Might Feel So Fast Now
I've seen a number of posts talking about/complaining about 'genrushing', and while I do feel that generators in my games are going faster than before, I don't think it's down to a single factor. It is an accumulation of a lot of things happening across the game, which I've tried to enumerate below.
First, the number of Bloodpoint farming events we've had in succession means that the Bloodweb economy is out of whack: most Survivors have no reason not to bring the strongest items possible. 9 times out of 10 this means toolboxes, especially with Brand New Parts. This power creep is not symmetrical though, as rarer/more expensive Killer add-ons are not consistently more powerful for every Killer (the question of Killer add-on balance and how that affects the game.
Second, the strongest Medkit addons got reworked and are much less powerful than before, while strong healing perks are plentiful. Syringes needed to go in my opinion, but now there's much less of a case for Survivors to bring Medkits at all when they can just have Resurgence, or We'll Make It, or Plot Twist, or even Strength in Shadows or Do No Harm. This frees up that item slot for the aforementioned toolboxes, which can dramatically reduce generator completion time, while also cutting down the time Survivors have to spend healing each other or themselves before getting back to their objective.
Third, item perks have been buffed and anti-item perks have been nerfed or changed entirely. Built to Last and Streetwise got small but significant changes that made them much more efficient, making toolboxes even stronger. Hyperfocus and Stakeout are just as strong as they've always been. One Two Three Four and Bardic Inspiration are not particularly strong by themselves but further empower toolboxes and the aforementioned healing perks. Meanwhile, Franklin's Demise is much weaker than before and Overwhelming Presence (which was a bad perk anyway) has been reworked not to affect item efficiency.
Fourth, the current gameplay loop encourages unhealthy behaviours and leaves fewer options for either side. The best option to stop quick gen losses, especially if you see toolboxes in the pregame menu, is to try and tunnel out a Survivor early so they can't use their items to burn through your loss condition. Conversely, one of the best responses to tunnelling or camping that's available to solo queue is to try and do gens as fast as possible so your fellow Survivor's demise is not in vain and the Killer can't stall out a 3v1 in the late game. This is even stronger now that the hook timer is 70 seconds and you have 15 seconds of Endurance after being unhooked: that's basically a generator's worth of hook time per hook stage. Both sides have no reason not to race to the end of the objective and it's making the game worse for anyone who can't or doesn't want to run at Mach 5.
Fifth, the changes to many Realms have extended chase times for weaker Killers while also making it easier for Survivors to locate generators in some cases. This isn't actually a bad thing in my opinion, but it's a factor that hasn't been fully appreciated. Maps that have been reduced in size like Disturbed Ward are still really bad for most Killers, but at least there's a recognition that the map has a significant impact on escape rate. A smaller map, however, is easier for both sides to navigate, and combined with the spawn logic changes that almost always place all 4 Survivors near a generator mean that low-mobility Killers without initial perks like Corrupt Intervention or Lethal Pursuer can easily lose a generator or two before finding the Survivors. Meanwhile the pallet density change has been very unevenly felt: it feels like a somewhat slipshod approach to the fundamentally poor design of many Realms that has left both sides unhappy. The strongest Killers don't care about the extra obstacles, as usual, while weaker Killers have their chase times massively inflated by having to chew through a pallet every 15 seconds. This has the knock-on effect that even oppressive slowdown perks like Pain Resonance and Pop Goes the Weasel are less effective because your chases are longer and your window to apply regression smaller before the generator is completed.
Sixth, and this is more about vibes than data, it feels like you have a lot of Survivors who only want to do gens and don't want to be chased, and a lot of Survivors who only want to be chased and don't want to do gens, and ne'er the twain shall meet. If you find the first one as Killer at the beginning of the trial, you're in luck, because they probably don't have any chase or information perks aside from Deja Vu, and it's a coin toss whether they just give up or go AFK as soon as you approach them because they didn't get to do their full setup to clear a generator as fast as possible. If you encounter the Chase Me Survivor first however, you'll get juiced for a long time with Finesse, Lithe, Windows and Resilience as gens fly by in the background thanks to uninterrupted Stakeout/Hyperfocus combos. By the time you get a down on them (or leave chase and find someone else), the Trial is basically over, and you have nothing you can feasibly defend into the endgame. This dichotomy might be why my Killer games are either 0k or 3/4k and almost never anything in the middle. But I guess that works out at around 60% so BHVR's happy. Conversely, my Survivor games also hit the 40-50% escape rate bracket, and this is for the same reason. The Killer finds the wrong Survivor at the start of the Trial: what matters is whether it's the wrong Survivor for them or for us.
I don't think this is an exhaustive list of what's going on, but it's a start. I'll also repeat the point that this problem feeds into other problems in DBD, particularly the ongoing tunnelling/slugging/camping jeremiad, so it's in everyone's interest to try and figure out ways to make the game run at a pace that doesn't make everyone miserable and vindictive.
Comments
-
- I'll tell you my point of view. It's normal for survivors to be MUCH more efficient than before. If 80% of your matches are against Blight, Nurse, Kaneki, Oni... your only hope of victory is to accelerate generator progress as much as possible. Against many killers, healing isn't the smartest choice (Kaneki, Myers), so you'll have no choice but to complete generators. If 50% of your matches have a teammate tunneling hard, even in this case, your only hope of victory is to accelerate the generators. If you have this training, you'll obviously carry this mentality even when you go against Pig, or when the killer doesn't tunnel at all. Gone are the days when survivors were wandering around (unproductively) with flashlight and flashbang, or the buckle-up + for the people combo, or (only those who are really old in the game will remember this) Megs wandering around the map breaking useless totems... now wasting time is punished very severely
20 -
Because all the incremental changes they received have stacked up, less time healing being a big one with the recent healing buffs and anti heal debuffs, all the second chances, easy braindead chase extensions, hook extension etc etc. They simply have more and more time to spend on generators because the time committed by killers earns them less pressure than ever, so naturally they can accomplish their objective faster.
The game is time management and survivors have more of it in the majority of cases.
-1 -
Hey, remember when killers argued that if you give them less pressure to tunnel, they wouldn't do it so much?
But your argument is that survivors genrush MORE when you give them less pressure.
Which is it?
1 -
Yawn … Another pointless us vs them argument… Im not even making an argument about anything lmao, im just pointing out facts, you just want to invent an excuse to argue your pointless arguments for no reason.
Hey, remember when survivors stop doing gens so the killer can get more hooks and kills? Nope you don't because that doesn't happen. You all really need to stop crying over tunnelling.
Less time spent doing other tasks means more time doing gens and longer chases means more time doing gens for others. That is a fact, unless you think (good) survivors just stare at walls in the meantime doing nothing? It's really not hard to understand unless you literally don't understand the game at all.
6 -
so i'm surprised you never said gen regression getting destroyed over the years since that's the actual problem
-3 -
This content has been removed.
-
What killer are you playing? If its not a mobility or ranged killer they will ignore your presence especially with sprint burst.
3 -
It's more complicated than that though. While it's true that the regression limit and the nerf to Pain Resonance and Call of Brine are very significant, you can't also overlook the buff to base gen kicks (faster as of Resident Evil Chapter 2, with base 5% regression that has to be repaired for longer as of 2024), the buff to Hex: Ruin and the emergence of other strong slowdown perks like Grim Embrace and Dead Man's Switch. I think that there probably has been a slight net nerf to regression overall, but it doesn't fully explain the broader paradigm shift I'm seeing in my matches and in streams and videos.
In an ideal world, regression probably wouldn't be that strong, because it wouldn't need to be that strong, because there would be equilibrium between map RNG, Survivor co-ordination, perks and items, and Killer powers and perks.
2 -
Oni is strong but you can easily do 3 gens while someone just plays safe and predrops and he is just m1 killer that doesnt have any power at all so I dont think oni is good exsample for this, any m1 killer can be held for long time by just predroping and playing safe while holding w.
1 -
well there is the issue. The survivor knows that if you chase them then you will lose the match. Thats why they are not leaving gen in your line of sight. They do indeed have leverage.
2 -
killers who cant be ignored. Wesker to an extent, hillbilly, nurse, blight, new vecna, dracula, twins. Just a higher tier killer will do. You can keep playing your usual choices but this is the design of the game sadly.
0 -
In that case yes the ghoul is probably your best bet especially on controller. But i think the ghoul is not as good as those killers against good survivors.
Another non licensed, similarly strong killer who you could play fine on controller is krasue. You just need decent aim for the ranged spit and understand how to curve the lunge but it's easier than say huntress or trickster shots.
Knight is also very controller friendly and he is a decent mid-high killer depending on build. He doesnt have any mobility and isnt too strong. But he lets you spawn a guard on top of a survivor so you might like his gameplay.
0 -
but in survivor buffs and the addition of more survivor perks offset this not to mention the nerfs to anti heal and the buffs to healing making survivors only focus on gens making them more efficent but those slight "buffs" to those perks were after heavy nerfs which ultimately don't do anything
in an ideal world i would want swf to be nerfed (since it makes survivors extremely coordinated w/o downside) map rng to have less clutter perks on both sides to be adjusted and survivor items to be nerfed
1 -
If they don’t address tunneling, there is no reason not to focus on generators. If someone is being tunneled hard, the team’s goal should be to at least finish three gens. I mean, there is the option to give up and crouch in front of the hook, but a tunnelers mindset is based on math. To apply pressure, you need to disrupt the equation.
2 -
At some point you have to see how the killer is playing. While there are ways of speeding up repairs, solo repairing a gen is like watch paint dry. I swear at some points the bar doesn't move for nearly 5 seconds.
1 -
??? they nerfed gen regression so killers started tunneling camping and slugging more not to mention back when they destroyed knock out they never addressed hooking buffs survivors which was why slugging rose to begin with btw
but speaking of the first 3 gens popping if the survivors are smart that'll happen during the first chase which is part of the reason why killers complain about gen speeds
1 -
I feel that generator speeds are seemingly faster mainly because with the disproportion of S tier killers being played in about 70% of my games the survivors are going in trained and ready for the hardest possible outcome. There isn't a current expectation that you'll go against a weak killer and so you play your hardest.
7 -
Unless you are running a specific build to speed up repairs, it is exactly like you say, "like watching paint dry". 90 seconds is a long time to be holding M1
7 -
just cheaters, gens are actually slow.
-6 -
…or they can just choose to not tunnel. Gen-rushing is the answer to tunneling. If you slow down gens, I don't believe it will remove tunneling. I'm sure you have a similar claim, but I have been playing this game for a long time.
And if you're staying in chase for three gens, that's the problem. They nerfed survivors to start in the same location to help killers tunnel easier. By removing face-camping, killers just proxy camp, the behavior stays the same.
I never tunnel, slug, or camp. I'm not interested in scarfing down the cake slice in two bites.
0 -
I dunno about this. I regularly see my first chase get extended until three gens pop before I hook them. That's not even tunnelling, that's first chase. I'm not saying both don't need to be addressed, but people are exerting the behavior you're ascribing to anti-tunnelling behavior to just standard chase. This is in part why so many killers tunnel. When 1-3 gens go down per chase, the only mathematically valid solution is to tunnel to slow that progression and get what kills you can.
1 -
This is why I support bringing the 2v8 rules into 1v4. If survivors are gen-rushing, the regression would scale up and actually matter.
If killers are tunneling, the progression would speed up and punish that behavior too. And once you factor in perk stacking on top of these mechanics, neither tunneling nor gen-rushing would be the optimal strategy anymore.0 -
Toolboxes are becoming more and more of an issue recently, specially after the Eleven and Dustin gen perks that came out last chapter. Survivors are building full "gen rush builds" (4 gen perks) and trying to stay away/stealth from the killer so they can smash gen while another person is looping.
I had a match recently in The Game against 4 toolboxes. I lost 3 different gens under 50 seconds (no corrupt) and then i lost the 4th one more 40 seconds after. I had to resort to hard tunneling and slugging to have a chance in the match because i wouldn't have if i played normally. Its funny because they were VERY BAD at looping - with all due respect - not even looking behind but they finished 4 gens faster than many very good teams i go against.
Playing low tiers feels like queueing for an public humiliation as people get gens done before you could ever get the first hit.
Hope BHVR addresses toolboxes quickly, because i will be the next Blight main of my server if things keep going this way.
0 -
***Hope BHVR addresses toolboxes quickly, because i will be the next Blight main of my server if things keep going this way.
- If we've come to this conclusion, it's precisely because when you face S-tier killers (but also some A-tier ones), your only hope of victory is to speed up generators as much as possible. More Nurse mains and Blight mains there are, more players will focus on gen-rush builds and toolboxes. I've done the experiment myself (I've been a DBD player since 2020). Basically, I only need two perks in my build, DH and DS; I always dedicate the other two to "fun" perks. Since I've given up "fun" perks for gen-rush-focused perks, I've actually been able to escape more often. Will I always use gen-rush perks? No, because I prefer my "fun" perks, but objectively, meta killers that everyone uses very often require something to speed up the generators, especially in SoloQ.
2 -
Yeah but thing is not all killers can do much in 90 seconds unless they are blight or nurse or other very strong killer. The 90 seconds solo repair is slow but if all 3 survivors are doing it spread across the map while one is being preasured (chased by the killer) than its juts time bomb that will eventualy lead to multiple gens being done so you can play well as the killer and nothing happens for like 100-120 seconds and than two gens are done or three and you are having few hooks by that time because it takes time to find someone and down them unless you play like blight or someone who has insane catch up mobility that makes traversal across the map easy and strong antiloop too.
0 -
First, the number of Bloodpoint farming events we've had in succession means that the Bloodweb economy is out of whack: most Survivors have no reason not to bring the strongest items possible.
This hasn't been my experience at all, playing with a p100. In what I suppose is an effort to force you to diversify, the bloodweb stops giving you what you want. I have to buy 20+ levels in the bloodweb just to get the one add-on I really want. For several month now I've had to have friends bring me the item with my desired add-ons and trade them out in-game. I even have two builds, one for solo and one for SWF, because I can't get enough of what I want for all my matches. Even banking points on 2v8 isn't enough to keep up, and it's now giving me less of the stuff for the second build. It's pretty much all fog vial, map, and key add-ons. Same goes for my killers. It seems to quickly figure out what you want and not give it to you. I pretty much have to prestige just to play two or three rounds with my preferred add-ons as killer.
This frees up that item slot for the aforementioned toolboxes,
This is exactly what everyone said would happen in regards to both fog vial and medkit nerfs, and so here we are.
Built to Last and Streetwise got small but significant changes that made them much more efficient
I was a devoted Streetwise user until the rework. I don't know who is still using this perk anymore. I never see it. This is another one I think bit back though. I switched Streetwise out for Lithe and have done much better with that. Nerfing gen perks just leads to people choosing chase perks instead.
The best option to stop quick gen losses, especially if you see toolboxes in the pregame menu, is to try and tunnel out a Survivor early so they can't use their items to burn through your loss condition
I run Weave/Franklin's often. I see toolboxes sitting beside survivor auras like 30s into the match. They use them immediately for this very reason, so tunneling is only so helpful there. Also, if just the sight of toolboxes tilts you that hard before the match even starts, dodge.
If you find the first one as Killer at the beginning of the trial, you're in luck, because they probably don't have any chase or information perks aside from Deja Vu, and it's a coin toss whether they just give up or go AFK as soon as you approach them because they didn't get to do their full setup to clear a generator as fast as possible.
You're describing me in this whole post, a survivor who brings a Commodious, Deja Vu, and BtL, and I defeintley don't AFK or give up, nor do I really see this happening in my killer matches. I also never really see these sneaky Stakeout/Hyperfocus/Bardic players. It's almost almost chase/second chance builds.
This dichotomy might be why my Killer games are either 0k or 3/4k and almost never anything in the middle. But I guess that works out at around 60% so BHVR's happy. Conversely, my Survivor games also hit the 40-50% escape rate bracket, and this is for the same reason
This is true, and i hate it. Almost all my killer matches are stomp or be stomped. I'm either getting a 0k or a 1k, or a 4k, when what I really want and feel is a fair, balanced, well-played match is a 2k or a 3k.
What I don't like about this entire narrative—and it's a very popular one—is that it's basically the survivor playerbases fault for being tunneled because they're too fast on gens. The simple fact is that if the killer is preemptively choosing to tunnel without knowing what that particular survivor is doing or what build they have, it's on them. They're making that choice. My gen build was a direct response to being tunneled. I see way, way more hard tunneling in my survivor matches than I see gen builds in my killer matches.
6 -
I know its been a while, but potentially hot take: Everytime something happens like removing the BP bonus from WGLF or the hook timer gets extended, it speeds up gens. WGLF made people absolutely swarm hooks as it was the most consistent way to get stacks, and since emblems were still a thing they wanted to pump their altruism up as well. Extending the hook timer promotes efficiency before leaving the gen to go for the save. Even when it comes to any type of ability to pick oneself up off the ground idea, it removes the necessity to get off a gen to get someone back in action. Many unrelated changes and ideas can have direct impact on concepts like gen efficiency for survivor just like they do for killer in regards to how elements affect their macro play and time restrictions.
0 -
Here's something not a lot of people really talk about - Generators do NOT actually take 90s. They only take 90s if the survivor either gets no skillchecks or they hit only 'good' ones.
For every great skillcheck, that's 1s shaved off the generator's total time. So let's say I'm working a generator solo and I get 6 great skillchecks before I'm finished - that generator only really took 84 seconds.
Now this is completely RNG at a base level. Sometimes you get 2-3 skillchecks. Sometimes you get none. There's also perks that impact this to consider.
Let's consider a common perk - Deja vu which gives a permanent 6% boost on the 3 highlighted gens. Meaning a gen gets done in about 85 seconds. Now subtract the hypothetical 6 great skillchecks and you get a gen done in roughly 79 seconds.
Again, this is another thing where RNG plays a big role in matches; matches where survivors get less skillchecks go on longer than those where survivors are getting and hitting greats consistently.
4 -
*This game is simple.
*If it's simple, it's a task game.
*What is a task game?
*What tasks are included?
*There are tasks that inexperienced players will not know. *Individual ability is a factor.
*The speed and accuracy of various tasks are important.
*There is a possibility of inconsistencies in the timeline.
*When playing against an opponent who can perform tasks quickly and accurately, you may feel helpless if you are inferior to them in completing tasks.
*Additional Note
*If you base your task game on the best players, it becomes even more of a task game and loses its appeal.
*If it's not fun, it's not beneficial to anyone.
Post edited by ONSAN on1 -
Well, them we will go into an endless cycle where sweat from one side push sweat from the other. I was talking about becoming a Blight main due to how fast gens are going since the new update. I was surprised that even Dracula - which a consider a fair, although strong killer - couldn't keep up with the speed of the gens.
Of all items, Toolboxes feels unfair because they give the most result without too much effort from the player. At least in my opinion survivors have enough tools to deal with the A or A+ killers, being the real issue only the very good Blights (i personally don't consider him a problem, but most of the community does) and Nurses. MMR + SoloQ creates other issues, but they need to be looked individually, not bandaid fixed with items or perks that can be """abusable""" by good survivors or SWFs.
I did an "experiment" with some friends and 4 toolboxes and we could get all gen done by the time the killer had 1 or 2 hooks, specially if it was a begginer or a weaker killer. And we were going full meta (DS, DH/Sprint, Resurgence), without "genrush" perks.
The saddest part on this current meta is that the real counter to this type of genrush builds is tunneling and slugging, specially hard tunneling, since people give up on chase perks and anti-tunnel to focus on gen/item perks.
-1 -
There's also the noticeable upsurge in stake out and hyperfocus builds. I usually see at least one per match now along with survivors generally being more efficient whether it be general skill increase or perks. Like even back in 20202-2021 matches didnt feel that fast even without running the noticeably stronger builds.
-1 -
the oroboros is real survivors bring in strong gen perks and rush gens to combat blight and destroy lower tier killers and turn those people who use lower tier killers into blight mains and those blights destroy survivors who play more casually turning into gen rushers
what's funny about this is in the dbd lore the entity feeds on this
1 -
Are you 100% sure this is something you really want to toss in here? Survivors get skill checks so… what are you proposing? Lose the skill checks? I wouldn't be opposed I guess. But what then? Gens are the most boring part of the game other than being slugged. If this were to make gens more interesting, we might have something lol.
1 -
If that's what you got from my post then you missed my actual point
The point is that even at a base level without perks, gen speeds aren't a flat consistent thing and much like map generation it's pure RNG which contributes the reason why some matches feel like they go by quickly and some feel like they drag on.
-1 -
Apologies.
If this is the way it is, how is it fixed? (If it needs to be). Just asking for conversation.
0
