http://dbd.game/killswitch
The Direction DBD is going...
If I'm not mistaken, recently, someone from Behavior said that it's not in the company's interest to turn DbD into a competitive game, they kinda like it the way it is, more casual. (I just can't recall who said that, but I'm not mistaken, it was an interview with 2 people.)
But is "casual" the correct word to define the DbD of nowadays? If every new Killer has map pressure and pratically a "garanteed hit" (Kaneki, Krasue, The One, etc) and we are supposed to "race against the clock" to win a match… doesn't that sounds a lot like "competitive gameplay"? To me, it does.
So, the question is: are we heading towards a more competitive DbD (wether or not the devs have realized it) or is DbD still "casual"?
My point being… I've been playing solo for the majority of the time, and the solo experience is awful, deplorable to say the least, specially against Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Kaneki, Krasue, Henry Creel, etc. (Mobility Killers in general, and if they do not have mobility, they have range.) Kinda makes me wonder if Behavior does not actually wants us to "play with friends" all the time, to avoid stress and frustration, which also contributes to a more competitive game.
What are your thoughts on this matter?
Comments
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it isn’t casual because some players play like their actual life is on the line
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Well i think they try to please both sides at the same time, which doesn't work. The only thing that keeps a round feeling casual, is if the killer decides to keep the rulebook gloves on, or the survivors aren't a fully loaded swat/bully squad with discord. If any of those 2 things change the match turns "sweaty" which is just a casuals term for competitive as the 2 don't get along. (Not to say a match can't turn competitive at any moment)
If they add stuff for casual, the competitives abuse it, if they add stuff for competitives, the casuals suffer from it. So we are just stuck a mixed bag that can't decide what to be lol. But most of the killers lately tend to be for competitives. Whereas the last casual we got was springtrap.
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BHVR don’t want a competitive game or a casual game, they want the tourists who come for the events and chapter releases drops 20 bucks they quit until the shirtless or bikini skin comes out.
This is clear from their refusal to implement long term changes that we’ve been asking for, or fix issues plaguing the game for years, because in their metrics those issues don’t actually affect their target audience that much.
Like actually worthwhile prestige rewards are nice and all and what’s the point in bhvr’s eyes when the people they’re making the game for won’t even get a p100 for years even with the lucrative amounts of BP we’ve been getting.
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How casual or sweaty your match will be is up to your opponent/s and it will probably stay that way. Unfortunately, a casual approach generally means losing because, chances are, someone else in the lobby isn't so casual.
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Exactly. I couldn't have put it in a better way myself…
That is the reason I think DbD has no other option other than to try and attain a very good balance between those two "mindsets". It's going to be a dark, bumpy and full of "trials and errors" road, but what option do they actually have? They could nerf the killers I mentioned to a point where they all are in the same power level as Ghostface, Doctor, Bubba… so casual players could escape more often and avoid a massive frustration build up, but then competitive players will make the lives of those killers miserable.
They could probably pull this off if they focused more on map sizing and killers powers balancing at the same time… still… it's going to be hard for us, that will have to wait a few extra years before dust settles into place.
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When I get a soloq team that is efficient we do amazing, we are not as efficient as a SWF because we are not on mic and cant call out things (why I'm a advocate for comm wheel and seeing perks which we finally getting) but when a soloq team is all on same level match it usually ends up being a really fair and fun match. (not always a escape but it feels fair and balanced)
some killers are a issue and still need changes. (spirit and Hennery I find no issues with, Krause only a issue because her counterplay is SWF coded)
I think one of the main issue with soloq is the matchmaking, Ill be matchmaked with a Killer whos trying their best, I'm trying my best then rest of my team mates are in the basement for some reason with no gen progression after first chase (legit had match go like this yesterday) Meanwhile if I would of had a team who was on same efficiency level as me a gen or 2 would of been done.1 -
I think that the solo queue is so miserable that people just become killers and move on. Or as with many that I have talked to and know of they just uninstall and accept that their money was wasted on the purchase. So the concept of mmr cant exist because there are not enough people on one side. But I don't have the numbers and wouldn't believe them if I did.
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this has gone on since at least the AoT update 6.1. some of the changes needed to happen but from that point on I feel like the game really wants you to gogogo. this is partly why I enjoy using perks like Treacherous Crows
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Yeah, this is it. They try to please everyone and as a result please almost no one.
But they make their money on the casuals who pick the game up, spend some money, and then move on after a year or two, so they don't really pay for this poor approach in the way that they should.
Real veterans of the game aren't where the money is, as they've gotten most of what they're going to get from us already (the exception being the content creators out there showcasing the game).
But the game is too imbalanced and riddled with exploitable design flaws to be a truly comp game. But at the end of the day it's really the sweatlord players who keep the "comp" thing going; the devs are just trying to milk them.2 -
Behavior made a new survey yesterday and one of the questions about the game (in the "cheaters" category) asks us if we ever uninstalled the game due to the ammount of cheaters, and I once did, but I never realized that some people might actually have uninstalled the game due to it's difficulty or due to frustration for always getting bad team mates. It's actually hit me now.
And the worst part is: most of the time, your team mates sucks because they're trying to use meta builds instead of a healing/information builds, which suits best the lone wolves out there, playing on their own. I don't know if that's because they see Otz and other content creators using those builds or what… regardless, DbD is a game that is hard for whoever's starting on it… and the lack of a decent mmr system (which, let's be honest, needs a massive player base to work out, and DbD do not have that gigantic player base) only makes things worse.
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And I will speak on it because I have talked to people about it. Sometimes, your teammates suck because they are also new. I dislike it but it is true that this game take more study to play well than it should. It's not just people being trash to others, they don't know any better. And since I have had a back to hook killer EVERY game for one year straight, but the other things that are awful for new people. Beyond studying like its for a diploma what are new people supposed to do. And BHVR keeps putting it on sale or free so they keep the survivor, I call them "Fodder" there for the killers to treat like trash so they uninstall.
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Just do a ranked queue and casual queue already.
In Casual you can gain bloodpoints and do challenges, but you don't rank up for the monthly BP bonuses or gain XP for shards.
Either that, or do a "Barebones Mode" where perks, items, addons, and offerings are disabled.
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The last year has truely shaken my trust with the devs to the point where i have little to no hope left when it comes to new updates. The falloff BHVR had going from 2024 a great year to 2025 an atrocious year HAS to be studied.
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idk about the whole casual vs comp thing honestly. they're in a catch 22 situation. the playerbase knows too much about how the game works.
…all I know is can they please for the love of god fix this godawful camera snap bug that's affecting Myers/Chucky/Kaneki, it's been in the game for months please BHVR I beg
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What does beach fit Kwon Tae-young have to do with anything? It would be lore accurate and is a sorely needed addition to the game.
To mirror what others have said though, it's mostly up to how the players play the game and not something you can totally design around. I'd like to see them working on mechanic changes to things that are in my opinion obnoxious. That said, I also acknowledge that if there's anything this player base is good at it's weaponizing things that aren't intended to be used a certain way and exploiting design gaps to avoid intended mechanics that they just don't want to deal with.
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There was no falloff this game has always been crappy for 10 years they have promised us bright new futures many times and if you still believe them you're going to get the rug pulled out from under you when the patch actually drops there is no reality where dbd will ever live up to its potential and actually be good as long as BHVR still owns the game
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I suggest this a lot too, maybe even make more prizes for ranked, like exclusive skins. But people seem weirdly resistant to it. Not sure why, seems a no brainer to help separate the sweats and the casuals a little.
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One of the many repeated reason is it wouldn't separate them to a satisfactory degree. Sweats would go to "casual" for warm ups, people who want to just make others miserable go to either, and casuals are still left with the same thing only with possibly longer a times.
If you put exclusives then the majority flock to that screwing over q times for the other and depending on how you get said exclusives wouldn't separate them at all as a casual would go to ranked just for it.
It really wouldn't help more than it hurt.
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All theory unless it's actually tried and tested. People always say "it won't help enough" but tbh the mmr at the moment is rancidly bad. When I play surv I'd say I get a fun balanced game maybe 1 in 20 games if that. Killer i get a better balance but well over half my games are one sided stomps.
Can't really say if a playlist split would help unless bhvr actually tried it. Otherwise it's all just theoretical
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Which then makes us ask how it's a no brainer to help
Regardless of that, for a admittedly sketchy example of what is likely to happen, look to 2v8. People were playing like lives on the line, Slugging to secure kills despite the self pick ups, and everyone thrown into the mix (experienced, casual, newer players). And the q times for normal trials were hampered and still the same (atleast 2 versions ago, didn't try the last one).
Your correct that this is all theories from both us, however players have shown their... vibrant personalities...often enough that there's reasonable proof of it going sideways
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It's a half-baked technicality. The reality we're reminded of all of the time is that BHVR is always right. It doesn't matter what we experience or see with our own eyes—the stats say otherwise. The stats we're not allowed to see very often, that is. Whenever we press for answers, we're either met with silence or non-answers that infantilize our concerns.
In short, they say a lot but don't do a lot. And the game is the way that it is as a consequence.
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It's not always the case that changes are made to push the game in a casual or competitive direction. More often than not, BHVR seem to respond to whoever shouts the loudest. I don't think The Legion would have been removed from the most casual game mode we have if that hadn't been the case (they are a very popular choice for casual Killer players). They definitely weren't removed for balance reasons or for being "too strong", that's for certain.
But I do personally think overall that 1V4 has been leaning more towards the comp side of DBD in recent years. It feels to me like most modern design Killers have been power crept to combat what the strongest SWFs can bring to the table. Given that average SoloQ often struggles against Trapper, the lethality and complexity of the newer Killers has meant that more of the Survivor player base is leaning heavily into gen rush builds. With that said, my Killer games don't feel much different to how they've always felt. My Survivor games are a different matter though, with more tunnelling, camping and slugging in recent times than I ever experienced when I started playing about 3 years ago. The way players play the game has changed and is more competitive these days. BHVR's efforts to close the gap between Solo and SWF is more evidence that DBD is moving in a competitive direction as well. In any case, SoloQ and the weaker Killers will still be left behind because the arms race between the strongest things in the game is not really being reigned in.
I think BHVR would have to create a dedicated casual mode if they decided to split the queues to address the frustrations between their casual and comp player base. A good start would be to combine the tunnelling / slugging mitigations from the rejected PTB with Chaos Shuffle. Obviously those systems needed more adjustments, but I think a game mode like that would cut down on most of the complaints casual players have with regular DBD.
Problem is, if the casuals flock to a new mode and it becomes a success, the biggest content creators (who tend to play more competitively) will start complaining about their sweatier 1V4 matches and longer queue times, since they won't have so many casuals to stomp. This happens every time 2V8 is live. That would probably be bad for the promotion of the game, so I doubt BHVR would want any alternative mode to eclipse the popularity of regular 1V4. As much as people seem to love 2V8, it's not a game mode that can carry the future of DBD with all of its strict limitations.
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2v8 is a bad example because it's so 1 sided. If killers don't sweat on 2v8 gens get rinsed in no time. The main reason i think a playlist split would help is because, currently the whole game atm is an arms race. When I play killer, i know that if I don't run a meta build or a B tier or higher killer, I'm going to get absolutely clapped. I'd love to play experimental builds but I don't have the freedom to. Conversley when I play survivor i spend souch time getting stomped in landslide 4ks that when I come up against a weak killer I will gen rush and juice as much time as I can in chase to get the escape.
If you add an explicitly casual playlist, yes some players will use it for easy wins, because people are asshats. But. There will be enough players who are tired of the constant sweatfest that dbd currently is to have some halfway decent games. Killers running weaker, experimental builds, not playing for 4ks like their lives are on the line. surv teams who won't be losing 9 out of 10 games. So will be a little more relaxed and less toxic. In all honesty the atmosphere in the game is so negative right now it's honestly hard to make it worse.
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See, I don't see that because I run gimmick/thematic builds as both roles and as a variety of killers yet I only get smacked when i play poor. Even in 2v8 there was no sweating and still broke even. Its sweat because people think the other side is gonna sweat, which then causes you to sweat, then causing the other side to think this and it goes on and on and on.
If people use it as target practice then its currently no different than what we got right now. Theres already killers running experimental builds, just like theres ones running whatever the latest thing a famous streamer told them to. There's all types of people running about. What would need to happen is that those target practice matches become uncommon. What i see is a miniscule improvement to the sweats at the cost of q times at best. Most likely outcome is no improvement at the cost of q times. Worst outcome is the devs screwing up a lot of unrelated things trying to implement this with no improvement for casuals.
In all honesty the atmosphere in the game is so negative right now it's honestly hard to make it worse.
While whole heartedly agree with this, would rather a positive change than a side grade one. Or at the very least one that's not a complete gamble on the community's self regulating behavior.
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Wait so during this conversation, you've said people were playing 2v8 like a sweat fest and then said that your personal 2v8 matches were fine? Pick a lane.
Just because your games are perfectly fine apparently doesn't mean it's like that for the majority of the player base. Just need to look at the forums to see that the majority of players, experienced or not think that the current situation sucks.
And if they add a casual playlist then they simply need to do a trial period. If it impacts queue times and games are still just as bad as before then theybget bad feedback, it's a failure and they roll it back and move on. But if it does tangibly improve the situation then they keep it. It works this way with every game I've played that has a ranked casual playlist split. If I'm of a mind to get the prizes, I'll play ranked and sweat like a fat dude locked in a sauna, and when I need a break, I'll switch to casual/quickplay and take it down a gear, games will be a mixed bag but the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and less stressful. At least I know what I'm letting myself in for.
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It will be like that because in reality "who draws first usualy wins" and this applyes here too if you go and put your game into hands of opposite side in hope they wont sweat than ok but you cant be surprised when they have almost won and you have very little progress in your objevtive thats why people usualy sweat its vicious circle go in chill - get crushed- go in to crush - crush chill opponent and again and again but this isnt only this games problem. Some see DBD as chill casual game but it isnt realy casual game when you are rated by your stats into win/loose with this its never casual chill game if theres wining and loosing especialy when theres put some weight into it like getting pips.
DBD is kinda competive game in its core always been and I dont think even raked mode will help because it will bring only true sweats that are looking for evaluation in their achievements and sweat they put in but it will still be played like its now even with some rank mode or without it.
Other part is how do you want to make people play chill with game set like this.
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i feel like this discussion has the fundamental issue of the terms being poorly defined. "Competitive" can mean anything from "People generally play to win" to "The entire game revolves around a tournament based competitive scene," and everyone argues assuming their is the correct one.
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Specifically as killer when playing at a casual pace and playing survivor we see the aforementioned sweat (admit to not wording well there previously).
And again this supposed solution of separate qs is heavily likely to not improve anything. People playing like lives are on the line make the situation suck. The main pain point is that it's the players who's making things suck. Putting a separate thing of "competitive" and "casual" wouldn't stop this.
If it impacts queue times and games are still just as bad as before then theybget bad feedback, it's a failure and they roll it back and move on.
You've seen previous ptbs and feedback right? That's living on a prayer of the most vocal people.
If I'm of a mind to get the prizes, I'll play ranked and sweat like a fat dude locked in a sauna, and when I need a break, I'll switch to casual/quickplay and take it down a gear,
This however is you. There's going to be those hop in, grab prizes, and go right back to sweat in the "casual" q and then "casual" stays the same as what we got now, which is where the situation sucks for the causals. Its not helping the "casual" base. There's also a bit of reversing. I can say that should I want those fabulous prizes I'd hop in rank and still play like normal. How many people do you think I'd upset as a survivor in "ranked" till i grab my fabulous prize?
But ya know what? Not even sure why im botherin. Im even only arguing about 1 part of the downsides. Its been argued a zillion times, by a zillion ppl, probably a zillion more times commin, and personally im just tired of it. If you think it'll help, ok. I don't think it'd help, ok. To each their own.
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Let's start that they shouldn't touch dead hard and decisive never. What on earth you made it canceling for saving, healing or cleansing. It's a perk that needs to protect you at all costs and it's only one use which is useless. Have no idea who got this amazing ideas to put in perks excuses for using it.
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All PvP environments are competitive by default, you're not supposed to load in and go sniff glue in a corner, you're supposed to try to beat the other dude…like…what the hell is there to misunderstand about that?
All of the false-framing to get your way has gone off the rails with most of the survivor community. How BHVR has been so gullible is a mystery.
You're not the cool-kid-casual who was victimized by a sweat lord, you're a salty wad who got beat by somebody better than you; and it's because of all the salt wads that the survivor kit is more bloated than the US defense budget.
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