Example of WIGGLE DS beeing the strongest thing in the game
It's the first chase so there is no real need for a time stamp I guess.
https://youtu.be/KqCCJLwccuQComments
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There's a reason why DS is considered the most hated perk in the game.
The perk isn't a problem when you know that the obsession got it.. but when every OTHER survivor in the trial got a hidden auto-escape.. that's too much.13 -
It gets worse, before Breakdown was a thing if some idiot farmed a guy with wiggle DS it would just end with the wiggler being rehooked. Now, Breakdown can guarantee a wiggle DS due to the hook spawn changes.se05239 said:There's a reason why DS is considered the most hated perk in the game.
The perk isn't a problem when you know that the obsession got it.. but when every OTHER survivor in the trial got a hidden auto-escape.. that's too much.4 -
DS needs to be an end game perk at least then it'd be on the same level of broken as NOED.
I don't see any changes happening to it anytime soon, I Hope I'm wrong but judging by past experiences It'd be a long shot.
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Exactly, you nailed itse05239 said:There's a reason why DS is considered the most hated perk in the game.
The perk isn't a problem when you know that the obsession got it.. but when every OTHER survivor in the trial got a hidden auto-escape.. that's too much.0 -
@Bongbingbing It's worse as an endgame perk because it guarentees a free escape.
My suggestion from the oher thread - PTB, no NOED/DS/Adrenaline.
See what the feedback is and whether players prefer it.
The devs tested the garbage self-care so they should be able to test this too.0 -
DS isn't the problem. It's good looping.
I suck at looping and if I bring DS along you'll just laugh at me and catch me again in 5 seconds if I can't juke you. That's why I don't use DS, it doesn't work for my playstyle.It's not "you lose no matter how good you played" lots of good killers can catch loopers pretty fast and do it again after they get DS'd.
I'll admit that going up against 4 excellent loopers each with DS is a little too much. But not every survivor is a good looper. And that underscores the real issue: good loopers are the problem, not the perk. Sometimes you just get outplayed or go up against four players who are better than you. It happens.
I don't really care if DS gets nerfed, though, since I don't use it. Give me DS and I'm like a free kill.
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@The_Crusader said:
@Bongbingbing It's worse as an endgame perk because it guarentees a free escape.My suggestion from the oher thread - PTB, no NOED/DS/Adrenaline.
See what the feedback is and whether players prefer it.
The devs tested the garbage self-care so they should be able to test this too.
Oh I agree, It'd still be completely broken but at least it would prevent 3+ gen loops.
I'd gladly say goodbye to NOED if DS and adrenaline go with it but problem is if they did this there would be outrage from people who use those perks which is a lot and the devs wouldn't keep the change.
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There was mostly outrage about the self-care trial but they said they want to bring it back at some point regardless.Bongbingbing said:@The_Crusader said:
@Bongbingbing It's worse as an endgame perk because it guarentees a free escape.My suggestion from the oher thread - PTB, no NOED/DS/Adrenaline.
See what the feedback is and whether players prefer it.
The devs tested the garbage self-care so they should be able to test this too.
Oh I agree, It'd still be completely broken but at least it would prevent 3+ gen loops.
I'd gladly say goodbye to NOED if DS and adrenaline go with it but problem is if they did this there would be outrage from people who use those perks which is a lot and the devs wouldn't keep the change.
But this why we say NOED and DS/Adrenaline. Many would be willing to give up one if the other went.1 -
@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I just watched this match and I can absolutly confirm this situation as beeing totally unfun and stupid. Wiggle DS is the strongest thing survivors can have and I really don't know how the devs thought this is fine or balanced. One wiggle DS can make you lose the match, no matter how good you played it.It's the first chase so there is no real need for a time stamp I guess.
DS must be overhaul, but you guys are blind? the real problem here is not DS, is how fast the game end, DS is not a problem if you have time to chase them again, "ok he DS and now i have to caught him again", yeah thats kinda sucks but it's ok unless you get the 5 gens done already, in the process. At least is what i think about this.
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looping wasnt the problem in the video. The fact that the momentum shift from Basement hook to no hook at all.Mochan said:DS isn't the problem. It's good looping.
I suck at looping and if I bring DS along you'll just laugh at me and catch me again in 5 seconds if I can't juke you. That's why I don't use DS, it doesn't work for my playstyle.It's not "you lose no matter how good you played" lots of good killers can catch loopers pretty fast and do it again after they get DS'd.
I'll admit that going up against 4 excellent loopers each with DS is a little too much. But not every survivor is a good looper. And that underscores the real issue: good loopers are the problem, not the perk. Sometimes you just get outplayed or go up against four players who are better than you. It happens.
I don't really care if DS gets nerfed, though, since I don't use it. Give me DS and I'm like a free kill.
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They are one and the same but while the game is as it is DS means 4 survivors can potentially almost double the length of any chase meaning the gens get done faster due to no pressure.BlackReaper said:@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I just watched this match and I can absolutly confirm this situation as beeing totally unfun and stupid. Wiggle DS is the strongest thing survivors can have and I really don't know how the devs thought this is fine or balanced. One wiggle DS can make you lose the match, no matter how good you played it.It's the first chase so there is no real need for a time stamp I guess.
DS must be overhaul, but you guys are blind? the real problem here is not DS, is how fast the game end, DS is not a problem if you have time to chase them again, "ok he DS and now i have to caught him again", yeah thats kinda sucks but it's ok unless you get the 5 gens done already, in the process. At least is what i think about this.
Now if DS wasn't a thing the killer would hook them so at least one survivor would be going for the save and heal up, that's only 2 survivors on gens, it's such a little change which gains more time for pressuring.2 -
@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I just watched this match and I can absolutly confirm this situation as beeing totally unfun and stupid. Wiggle DS is the strongest thing survivors can have and I really don't know how the devs thought this is fine or balanced. One wiggle DS can make you lose the match, no matter how good you played it.It's the first chase so there is no real need for a time stamp I guess.
Well the non-obsession DS has been buffed recently with the new hook spreading system. Of course its even more insane now. Im not surprised.
Good that im playing other stuff now, have fun killers2 -
@BlackReaper said:
DS must be overhaul, but you guys are blind? the real problem here is not DS, is how fast the game end, DS is not a problem if you have time to chase them again, "ok he DS and now i have to caught him again", yeah thats kinda sucks but it's ok unless you get the 5 gens done already, in the process. At least is what i think about this.One good thing in DbD is that the matches are relatively short, we don't need to prolong them unnecessarily. You can have quick matches (decided by the gen repair times) but as a consequence you need to give Killers the ability to end chases quickly aswell.
By prolonging the match, you just increase the time the other Survivors spend repairing gens. It's not time that's thrilling and exciting, it's time they spend holding M1 while pressing space from time to time.
It needs a good balance between intensity and thrill but also not too hectic and stressful. Unfortunately, it's always really stressful for Killers and if you add DS, it's getting way worse.
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Slug them all.
Fixed.
Thanks you are welcome.What i mean ?
You are the killer bro ! You created a lobby to 4 ppl DS you and teabag you at the exit.
it's your game ... dictate and control the game.
PS.: Give a ######### about postgame chat. Thats how a real man play videogames.0 -
I know he's doing a thing where his viewers choose his perks but enduring on any m1 killer is a must. and the only reason he couldnt just catch him again is that middle building. its wayyy too strong of a structure and its not the only one that needs addressing. I still believe there are worse ######### in this game than ds due to the majority of the player base not being so good.0
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@BlackReaper said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I just watched this match and I can absolutly confirm this situation as beeing totally unfun and stupid. Wiggle DS is the strongest thing survivors can have and I really don't know how the devs thought this is fine or balanced. One wiggle DS can make you lose the match, no matter how good you played it.It's the first chase so there is no real need for a time stamp I guess.
DS must be overhaul, but you guys are blind? the real problem here is not DS, is how fast the game end, DS is not a problem if you have time to chase them again, "ok he DS and now i have to caught him again", yeah thats kinda sucks but it's ok unless you get the 5 gens done already, in the process. At least is what i think about this.
We shouldn't be making the argument to make the game longer to account for multiple DS users. If we did that, it would make people feel as though they have to bring the perk to balance out the time. We should just be tweaking the perk's affect so that it doesn't give a free escape.
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Lets look at the outcome...BlackReaper said:@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I just watched this match and I can absolutly confirm this situation as beeing totally unfun and stupid. Wiggle DS is the strongest thing survivors can have and I really don't know how the devs thought this is fine or balanced. One wiggle DS can make you lose the match, no matter how good you played it.It's the first chase so there is no real need for a time stamp I guess.
DS must be overhaul, but you guys are blind? the real problem here is not DS, is how fast the game end, DS is not a problem if you have time to chase them again, "ok he DS and now i have to caught him again", yeah thats kinda sucks but it's ok unless you get the 5 gens done already, in the process. At least is what i think about this.
Free escape = 3 survivors left to do gens freely.
Now lets look at the options if he got that hook
Option 1: Survivors leave this guy to die, tru3 goes to chase another survivor = 2 survivors off gens 2 zurvivors on gens
Option 2: A survivor goes for the rescue, tru3 finds him and chases him, a different survivor comes off gens and goes for the rescue = 3 survivors off gens, 1 survivor on gens
Option 3: 1 survivor goes for the rescue and heal, tru3 finds a different survivor and begins a chase = 3 survivors off gens, 1 survivor on gens
The whole way killer works is by applying pressure to get survivors off gens. DS alone stops all that. Thus gen rush. It's too powerful for 1 perk.
At least if the survivors really wanted to deny this hook they could bodyblock, which given the distance would have probably taken all 3 survivors = 0 survivors on gens OR they go for a flashlight blind = an extra survior off gens getting into position for the flashlight save.
DS just kills a killers momentum and pressure and requires no effort from the other 3 survivors. All this from 1 perk.1 -
Nothing in the OP about noed? weird
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What do you mean? The post is about DS, what has noed to do with DS now?Sinner said:Nothing in the OP about noed? weird
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@Sinner said:
Nothing in the OP about noed? weirdNOED is counterable bro.
Still i don't see many NOED users and it's very late game perk.
If you loose to NOED you should review your gameplay.
If you loose to DS on the end of the game and doors open .... you're DONE !1 -
People bringing up NOED again, sheesh...
Most of us have already admitted that NOED sucks too. We are not a fan.
I think _at the very least__ when a dull totem is cleansed a counter should appear on the side of the screen for a few seconds, just an image of a totem and a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc everytime a totem is cleansed. This would help put solo closer to swf. It sucks taking out 4 totems solo, assuming the other 3 survivors have cleansed the last because you can't see it and then bam, NOED.
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Maybe rework DS so that it works only if you are dead on hook (already reached 2nd hook phase when downed) and if the survivor was good enough to not get downed before the end game then make it so when the exit gates are powered then the ds user can just use DS like it was before.
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While I agree with OP that a non-obsession DS can be more dangerous than the one of the Obsession (because we often don't expect it, even though we always ahould), I still think @BlackReaper and @Mochan are absolutely right: a good looper without DA is much more of a threat to us killers than a mediocre one with it.
You guys out there who hate DS with such a passion: you need to understand it's more of a psychological effect than an actual hindrance. We get mad when it happens to us. But if we use the available tools, it doesn't actually have such a strong impact. Don't we always tell people complaining about NOED to take Small Game and cleanse the bloody totems? Well, if you think DS is your biggest problem, just take Enduring. It makes a world of difference.
After more than 2K hours into this game, I dare say Adrenaline is much more dangerous to us than DS. It's just less annoying. I'd much rather suggest a slight nerf to Adrenaline, namely to remove one of the two effects (either the speed boost or the healing effect) if delayed, that is, if the last gen pops when you're hooked.1 -
Enduring doesn't negate DS. People say 1 second but it's actually a bit longer, plus there is the catch up time.
If you take it in the open you can probably make it up fast, however if the survivor goes down next to a strong loop it can still really extend the chase. I've took a DS with enduring next to wretched shop loop, needless to say enduring didn't do much good at all there.
The survivor is running somewhere when they go down. It all depends on how close they are to their destination.
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@se05239 said:
There's a reason why DS is considered the most hated perk in the game.
The perk isn't a problem when you know that the obsession got it.. but when every OTHER survivor in the trial got a hidden auto-escape.. that's too much.Welcome to HELL!!!!
DBD at it's finest!4 SWF claudette's when you find one , down her , then pick her up... She then says-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MiqPQ1dVg40 -
Though I can agree that it's annoying, the video is the worst example. This player literally hid his trap in a glitch and then feigned ignorance as to whether or not the survivor could see it. If anything DS corrected an exploit used by the player who was the killer.
I do think there should be a visual cue for DS, like maybe you can't hold any items with it equipped until it's been used and while it's active you hold a shard in your hand
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I just watched this match and I can absolutly confirm this situation as beeing totally unfun and stupid. Wiggle DS is the strongest thing survivors can have and I really don't know how the devs thought this is fine or balanced. One wiggle DS can make you lose the match, no matter how good you played it.It's the first chase so there is no real need for a time stamp I guess.
DS, it's not the problem, the problem is the "*G E N R U S *", I hate gen rush too and I agree as a survivor main to have more objectives to do for escape and it would be fun, I use ds when i get matched with a row with tunnelers and toxic killers, btw if they fix the gen rush ds would be fine, most people who use ds just run in a straight line they are potatoes, but a good looper can make you lose 5 minutes again..
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