Diminishing Returns is a Failure
Its safe to say Diminishing Returns is a failure the Meta was left unaffected and mid to niche perks are even more worthless then before.
Changes needs to happen to DR firstly to effect the Meta look at this example Pop, Pain Res, Corrupt intervention, Dead lock and DMS Meta slowdown and gen regression untouched by DR because they all have separate instances of slowdown and regression that protects them from DR what we need is a new system that checks the perks equipped in the lobby and if it's stacking perks like these it'll still nerf the numbers even when they are seperate instances.
Addons:
Addons need to be affected by DR because certain add-ons paired with certain perks create busted combos.
Finally with the DR in place niche perk combos that were niche in strength are now dead completely now Devs need to go through all low picked perks and Introduce massive buffs to all of them to make them viable enough to run solo.
Until proper solutions and changes are introduced nobody is happy with the current Diminishing Returns.
Comments
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DBD is still a live service game. We'll see more changes to stuff with diminishing returns in mind. There was never going to be a scenario where BHVR reworked 100s of perks to release along side the system.
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I will be okay with killer meta being affected as long as survivor meta (at least the gen speed meta) is also changed cuz currently I can barely even play without deadlock/no holds.
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To be fair, I don't think the Diminishing Returns system was meant to affect the meta.
This is just my read but I was under the impression the point was to try and prevent future problematic metas as a bit of a safeguard, which is why the focus is on stacking the same modifier multiple times. I'm thinking here especially of the medkit + CoH busted self heal speeds, or stuff like stacking repair speed penalties at different points in the game's lifespan for awful slog matches.
(Hypothetically repair speed bonuses would go here too but that's just toolboxes so it's not as affected)I'm definitely on board for limiting slowdown in some way, but this system didn't really seem to be designed for that, so it's not really all that fair to say it's a failure because it doesn't achieve something it wasn't designed to do.
Also, this part's more of a question, what perks are you referring to when you say niche perks are even more worthless than before? As far as I can tell this system hasn't had a huge direct impact on really any individual perk, just a few builds.
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DR wasn't intended to change the meta.
It's a framework for fine-tuning stacking, and a safeguard that allows them to continue to create perks that utilise modifiers without having to worry about limitless stacking or problematic oversynergy that we've seen happen time and time again.
DR not affecting perks that work via instant regression events is because there's already a system in place to deal with that: the generator regression limit. Having two systems affect these perks would be unnecessarily complicated.
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Yeah you both are correct, I can't remember whether it was RyanB or Mandy that said it, but they said that DR was never intended to change the meta and its point was to prevent hard stacking perk types from getting too out of hand.
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I want to agree with you, but I'm not optimistic when knotted rope is still in the dumpster
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BHVR is extremely slow at making changes and diminishing returns won't change that. BHVR could easily push number adjustments every 2 weeks live. We don't really need a PTB to test number changes. Then the PTB could be reserved for bigger changes. That's not the world we live in. It'll probably be at least a year before we start seeing sweeping perk changes and it'll still be a handful of perks at a time.
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I do agree that the current implementation for Diminishing Returns is a failure. I don't think diminishing returns was ever even supposed to change the meta. It was however supposed to help to allow safer perk design without creating issues with pre-existing perks.
I've suggested to them how they could implement Diminishing Returns in a healthier way so hopefully they'll listen to the feedback0 -
Cool the meta is hard stacking slowdown and regression even their INTENDED design failed miserably
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I understand the intent behind DR, and while I can't say I'm hopeful based on BVHR's track record, I could see it being a boon in the long run if they do go back and update these more niche perks. I just feel like there were more than a few perks that were only run in these synergistic builds that could have received changes accompanying the update. Ex. Dark Arrogance was really only run in vault builds
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