SWF and the voice chat argument.
Everyday there are multiple arguments over this however I do not completely understand the issue with it.
It does make games harder for the killer and it is bad for solo survivors as they tend to not help them. When I play with my friends and girlfriend if we did not have voice chat we probably would not play together and find another game. I think this would be the same for a lot of people.
I understand that there are people who treat it like the army and like to crush a killer and the people that are toxic about it however there are people like this in every online game and always has been. Try playing Overwatch in platinum xD.
I don't think it would stop the game if it goes but a lot of people would stop playing and not all of them bad. I have played killer against SWF that have completely destroyed me and refused to leave and general make me look like a sausage. I have played with a lot of them as survivor where they sell me out repeatedly and block me and look after themselfs but it is not the end of the world just online games xD. I have also seen a lot killers wipe the floor with theses people like they were new players so they can be beat.
What I want to know is why do you think it should go? Is this to much for you? What do you do if you want to play this with friends if it goes?
Please don't take anything I say as sarcastic or angry, I just want to know what the actual problem is and how toxicity is fixed by removing something that makes it fun for a lot of people.
Comments
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People on Xbox can just invite the randoms to the party... Same goes for killer, makes farming easier.0
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@JanTheMan said:
People on Xbox can just invite the randoms to the party... Same goes for killer, makes farming easier.I thought you could do this on any console or PC?
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SWF vs Solo simply obliterates an objective measure for balance:
Now it doesn't matter inherently whether the killer is strong or weak: Your objective is to make the killer exactly as strong as survivors are:
The Green Line is SWF.
The Red Line is Killer.
The Blue Line is Solo.Now I want you to move the Red Line either up or down until it overlaps exactly the Green Line and Blue Line line at the same time.
If you fail to do so then there's your problem.4 -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
SWF vs Solo simply obliterates an objective measure for balance:Now it doesn't matter inherently whether the killer is strong or weak: Your objective is to make the killer exactly as strong as survivors are:
The Green Line is SWF.
The Red Line is Killer.
The Blue Line is Solo.Now I want you to move the Red Line either up or down until it overlaps exactly the Green Line and Blue Line line at the same time.
If you fail to do so then there's your problem.I understand what you are saying but you cannot provide an exact balance for something with so many different variable. The solo survivor may be a bad player, there could be a troll or the killer might not be playing properly. And there is not always good players in SWF.
I do not think there has ever been a game where everyone plays how you are supposed to and I do not think people will start now.
Do you believe the game can ever be 100% fair on both sides? A lot of people assume that losing means that the game is wrong and they should of won on both sides.
Please excuse My grammar, some of this went into google translate xD
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And theres the problem, the overwhelming amount of variables swf adds.
It makes it impossible to balance it right without a huge rework of the whole game.
The answer could be to give the killer advantages when facing swf groups.3 -
@Spiritbx said:
And theres the problem, the overwhelming amount of variables swf adds.
It makes it impossible to balance it right without a huge rework of the whole game.
The answer could be to give the killer advantages when facing swf groups.I would not be opposed to this, The only question is what do you give that is an advantage to the killer without making them crazy xD
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I understand what you are saying but you cannot provide an exact balance for something with so many different variable. The solo survivor may be a bad player, there could be a troll or the killer might not be playing properly.
I do not think there has ever been a game where everyone plays how you are supposed to and I do not think people will start now.
It's not about playing the game the way you're supposed to. It's about having a standard for balance. Basically every game has that standard for balance.
Call of Duty doesn't queue up Hard-core players without HUD together with player with HUD. It separates different standards of balance. DBD doesn't. Whether those CoD players in either game-mode play well/play bad or troll, it doesn't matter.
In game modes where people have double damage people simply don't play together with players who don't have double damage.
The "Double Damage" in DBD would be Immunity to Blindless, Free Aurareading and pre-emptive planning + real time strategising.2 -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Dead_by_DavidI understand what you are saying but you cannot provide an exact balance for something with so many different variable. The solo survivor may be a bad player, there could be a troll or the killer might not be playing properly.
I do not think there has ever been a game where everyone plays how you are supposed to and I do not think people will start now.
It's not about playing the game the way you're supposed to. It's about having a standard for balance. Basically every game has that standard for balance.
Call of Duty doesn't queue up Hard-core players without HUD together with player with HUD. It separates different standards of balance. DBD doesn't. Whether those CoD players in either game-mode play well/play bad or troll, it doesn't matter.
In game modes where people have double damage people simply don't play together with players who don't have double damage.
The "Double Damage" in DBD would be Immunity to Blindless, Free Aurareading and pre-emptive planning + real time strategising.But if you put SWF in a separate game the wait times will go up a lot for everyone when they are already fair long now. Add this to killers and survivors DC ing and even the lobby dodge the game will start getting fairly unbreakable for all
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But if you put SWF in a separate game the wait times will go up a lot for everyone when they are already fair long now. Add this to killers and survivors DC ing and even the lobby dodge the game will start getting fairly unbreakable for all
Which may be why it isn't solved this way. It's a difficult issue xD
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Dead_by_DavidBut if you put SWF in a separate game the wait times will go up a lot for everyone when they are already fair long now. Add this to killers and survivors DC ing and even the lobby dodge the game will start getting fairly unbreakable for all
Which may be why it isn't solved this way. It's a difficult issue xD
I know
I understand the problems it causes but I do think people can be very dramatic about it as well! Maybe number 2 will have different games!0 -
Or it’s not “solved” because there isn’t anything to solve?
untill I see actual stats that categorically show SWF with voice chat have better results then solo survivors or SWF without chat, I will continue to see these threads as nothing but speculation, with oppinion masquerading as fact
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Paddy4583 said:Or it’s not “solved” because there isn’t anything to solve?
untill I see actual stats that categorically show SWF with voice chat have better results then solo survivors or SWF without chat, I will continue to see these threads as nothing but speculation, with oppinion masquerading as fact
My thread is asking why people see a problem, I use it to play with friends. I am not raising petition to shut it down?
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It's having vast Intel at your fingertips.
Killer location.
Intel on their loadouts.
Totem locations.
Where people are being chased or downed.
All this, and more without having to use perk slots.
The game isn't balanced for the speed of communication. The killers are too slow to get to people that know they're coming, they are too slow to kill, etc.
Yeah, it's not always like that, but it is more often than some would ever admit.
And they're looking at it, usually from the perspective of a well armed killer.
A lot of SWFs are looking to bully killers in their teen ranks.
The Intel, and coordination is what really sets chat users apart from solos.
It makes the game a bit too difficult for the killers they're after. It takes killers at end game, usually those with stockpiles of moris and purple addons to claim they're fine for the most part. Most of us aren't that.5 -
Rebel_Raven said:It's having vast Intel at your fingertips.
Killer location.
Intel on their loadouts.
Totem locations.
Where people are being chased or downed.
All this, and more without having to use perk slots.
The game isn't balanced for the speed of communication. The killers are too slow to get to people that know they're coming, they are too slow to kill, etc.
Yeah, it's not always like that, but it is more often than some would ever admit.
And they're looking at it, usually from the perspective of a well armed killer.
A lot of SWFs are looking to bully killers in their teen ranks.
The Intel, and coordination is what really sets chat users apart from solos.
It makes the game a bit too difficult for the killers they're after. It takes killers at end game, usually those with stockpiles of moris and purple addons to claim they're fine for the most part. Most of us aren't that.
I get the information issue, a good way to fix this is maybe give killer more information?
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@Dead_by_David said:
Rebel_Raven said:It's having vast Intel at your fingertips.
Killer location.
Intel on their loadouts.
Totem locations.
Where people are being chased or downed.All this, and more without having to use perk slots.
The game isn't balanced for the speed of communication. The killers are too slow to get to people that know they're coming, they are too slow to kill, etc.
Yeah, it's not always like that, but it is more often than some would ever admit.
And they're looking at it, usually from the perspective of a well armed killer.
A lot of SWFs are looking to bully killers in their teen ranks.The Intel, and coordination is what really sets chat users apart from solos.
It makes the game a bit too difficult for the killers they're after. It takes killers at end game, usually those with stockpiles of moris and purple addons to claim they're fine for the most part. Most of us aren't that.I get the information issue, a good way to fix this is maybe give killer more information?
No because that doesn't actually solve the problem. Which is that everyone who isn't SWF does NOT have this information, and thus any buffs/nerfs in response to SWF is to the detriment of solos since everyone is playing the same game fundamentally.
The only 2 solutions I can think of are:
A: Remove survive with friends (like you said this would cause people to leave since people LIKE playing with friends)
or
B: Add voice chat to the game. Suddenly SWF is redundant as you can ALWAYS communicate. Then you can just balance accordingly since the Blue line has been moved up to the green line so to speak. (This makes a lot of perks suddenly useless, such as bond and other survivor tracking perks, since survivors can just have that information perkless. Perks such as those would need to be reworked as a result of this)0 -
It does make the game quite hard to balance, the food chain of DBD goes like this:
SWF > Killer > Solos (Exceptions prove the rule)
SWF should not get nerfed, solos need to get buffed to be on a more or less equal level of SWF which will allow us to buff Killers in turn.2 -
SWf not need nerfed. Need to be deleted. Simple.
So dont come with "arguments", baby boy.0 -
NoneNani said:SWf not need nerfed. Need to be deleted. Simple.
So dont come with "arguments", baby boy.
Thank you for your reasonable and well thought out reply
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ChesterTheMolester said:It does make the game quite hard to balance, the food chain of DBD goes like this:
SWF > Killer > Solos (Exceptions prove the rule)
SWF should not get nerfed, solos need to get buffed to be on a more or less equal level of SWF which will allow us to buff Killers in turn.
This is a good idea, put everyone in the same place so no one is disadvantaged
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I would like them to add voice chat for all, including killer could be interesting. Or a disaster xDNuclearBurrito2 said:@Dead_by_David said:
Rebel_Raven said:It's having vast Intel at your fingertips.
Killer location.
Intel on their loadouts.
Totem locations.
Where people are being chased or downed.All this, and more without having to use perk slots.
The game isn't balanced for the speed of communication. The killers are too slow to get to people that know they're coming, they are too slow to kill, etc.
Yeah, it's not always like that, but it is more often than some would ever admit.
And they're looking at it, usually from the perspective of a well armed killer.
A lot of SWFs are looking to bully killers in their teen ranks.The Intel, and coordination is what really sets chat users apart from solos.
It makes the game a bit too difficult for the killers they're after. It takes killers at end game, usually those with stockpiles of moris and purple addons to claim they're fine for the most part. Most of us aren't that.I get the information issue, a good way to fix this is maybe give killer more information?
No because that doesn't actually solve the problem. Which is that everyone who isn't SWF does NOT have this information, and thus any buffs/nerfs in response to SWF is to the detriment of solos since everyone is playing the same game fundamentally.
The only 2 solutions I can think of are:
A: Remove survive with friends (like you said this would cause people to leave since people LIKE playing with friends)
or
B: Add voice chat to the game. Suddenly SWF is redundant as you can ALWAYS communicate. Then you can just balance accordingly since the Blue line has been moved up to the green line so to speak. (This makes a lot of perks suddenly useless, such as bond and other survivor tracking perks, since survivors can just have that information perkless. Perks such as those would need to be reworked as a result of this)0 -
SWF is just a necessary evil. Like someone said earlier, so many people would just move to another game that they can play with their friends on. Then all the killers would go from rejoicing that swf is gone, to complaining about waiting 1hr for a a full lobby because a huge portion of the player base was lost lol The Devs know majority like to play swf so business wise it wouldnt be a good financial decision to remove a game mode the majority of your player base uses.
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