Can we nerf exhaustion addons?
I would be okay with a soft blanket nerf to baseline exhaustion timers to compensate, but I genuinely don't think any exhaustion addon should be longer than 5 seconds max. Enough to prevent a Sprint Burst at the start, but not enough to make it impossible to get rid of mid-chase.
It feels terrible getting tunneled and being unable to actually use perks that help with such.
Jason is especially bad with this.
Comments
-
just remove them because they have no place in the game . Also vigil needs a slight buff aswell.
-4 -
I don't think exhaustion perks themselves are in a healthy enough position to constitute for anti-exhaustion perks/add-ons to be nerfed.
3 -
I feel like exhaustion tied to a perk is fine because there are tradeoffs, someone running genetic limits is one less slow-down they can run.
But going against four slowdowns + exhaustion addons that hard nerf chases since its impossible to lose the timer due to its length feels awful to play against.
I know that exhaustion perks are very strong however, so I would be okay if exhaustion went up by 10-15s to compensate. I don't find it healthy that non-iri addons can straight up disable perks every chase.-1 -
I would hate your suggestion, I'm sorry.
I do not want to have to run Vigil just to have my exhaustion perk come back before 60 seconds. I hardly if ever see people using exhaustion or oblivious add-ons - usually the killer I face use aura or hemorrhage status effects over exhaustion add-ons.
They are arguably the weakest of the add-ons as people can easily just walk it off - same for Mindbreaker and it affecting you.
I just would not like the changes at all and I say that as a prominent exhaustion perk user, which I'd argue it's always good to have an exhaustion perk on you to extend your chase.
In essence, what you are describing is a flat nerf to all exhaustion perks due to exhaustion add-ons, which affect exhaustion anyways. - not necessary, you are just making exhaustion perks harder to obtain with what you are suggesting.
-2 -
You are not walking off a > 10s exhaustion duration against any competent killer. Maybe with Vigil and that's a big maybe + the killer messing up big time.
Sprint Burst/Lithe/Drama are already too accessible and a big reason why BHVR keeps adding more ways to make them irrelevant which in turn punishes everyone else.
Not to mention, a nerf to the timer is only impactful after said perk is used, I honestly don't think it should be consistent to be able to SB/Lithe multiple times in one chase.
You could still pre-run even if the timer was increased, and again, I have no issues with exhaustion perks sans maybe Languid Touch. They come with a big trade-off. The addons not so much.-3 -
So, you're flat out admitting that you want exhaustion perks nerfed because they're too accessible - so, which one is it?
Either exhaustion add-ons are too strong or increase the timer, regardless you are nerfing stuff that do not need to be nerfed.
You can walk off exhaustion add-ons and perks. To imply such a thing is very, very restricted thinking.
Just say your initial post was, "I think exhaustion perks are too strong and accessible, they need a higher cooldown rate and we can adjust exhaustion add-ons." but you don't want to have that as your main argument because no matter how you slice it, it's nonsensical. We already nerfed Dead Hard, are you really bringing up Dramaturgy as an accessible perk once they made it so you only get Dead Hard twice in a match? Dead Hard is the only exhaustion perk that doesn't function off of basic exhaustion, yet you don't hear me complaining about it because I don't use it - but to bring up Dramaturgy? Are you gonna bring up Overcome next?
-1 -
Just what we need. More pig nerfs.
2 -
Pig should just stay permanently crouched, just the Pig nerf I need. /s
0 -
My logic is fairly consistent.
Exhaustion Addons (and killer/map balancing overall) are as strong as they are due to Exhaustion Perks being too accessible (namely: Sprint Burst/Lithe/Dramaturgy.)
I would like Exhaustion Addons to be nerfed because I find them oppressive when combined with tunneling + four slowdowns, but not without compensation, increasing the timer of exhaustion would be a fair compensation in my book for what I am looking for.
If you can find me footage of a high level game in which the killer allows the survivor to walk for 13+ seconds without getting hit on a strong killer, please link it so I can learn.
EDIT: I might add, imo the intention behind exhaustion addons should be to prevent using them at the start of a chase (where they are most oppressive) and to force the survivor to trade distance for potentially getting their perk back mid chase, there is skill expression there, there is gameplay there. This is healthy.
10+ second exhaustion just completely disables the perks, I find this to be bad design.1 -
So, you want me to go out of my way to go find a specific high MMR player that walks off exhaustion add-ons (mind you are already incredibly niche to begin with).
No one in high MMR is using exhaustion add-ons from what I see in my OWN games. - before you imply I am not high MMR, what metric do we have? I have faced comp players and you are arguing that you cannot walk it off. - you can walk off stuff while looping and holding checkpoints or being on another side of shack. I am not going to do your research for you to find one specific video nor do I have videos of me breaking down each specific killer I go against with exhaustion add-ons.
You're not going to get me in a gotcha and your argument collapsed the moment you brought up Dramaturgy.
Before you say: "Of course, you don't have videos of you doing it because if you did you'd show me a video."
I don't do that, I clip my best chases and either use them as a resource for others to use or upload them on YouTube. I don't get out of a game and be like, "The killer used x exhaustion add-on, guys!!! I walked it off, here is how you do it."
-1 -
Ditch the add-ons; nerf the perks.
2 -
Literally his argument in a nutshell.
Comparing Dramaturgy to Sprint Burst and Lithe is insane.
One where you can only get when healed while the others don't have as much conditions, but implying all three are similar.
OP please bring up Overcome.
-1 -
I find this wild. Not only do they not need to be nerfed but they in general need buffs for "most" killers. A few have decent ones.
There's almost always a guaranteed 4 exhaustion perks every match. This would mean exhaustion addons would be super good right? There always guaranteed to get max value. Yet they're still almost never ran on most killers that have them because even in their base case scenario (4 exhaustion perks) they're still bad.
-1 -
I don't think they should all be nerfed eqaully. Dramaturgy is what SB should be. SB is the problem child.
1 -
If that's your takeaway then go for it, I am not invested in convincing you otherwise.
Fact of the matter it is not feasible to walk off 13 seconds of exhaustion vs a strong killer piloted by a competent player unless they mess up heavily.
There is a reason why I don't bring up Mindbreaker.0 -
Most of them are not good because they happen within a chase, getting exhausted for 13 seconds vs Jason is incredibly oppressive, but this does not mean all exhaustion addons should be this strong.
0 -
You know you can literally avoid this entirely but just crouching right?
1 -
I mean those add ons aren't very good, theres almost always a better one to take that will give you more value
The best way to balance exahustion is to remove any and all effects that positively alter the recovery timers and adjust that based on the ease of use and value of the perk. Sprint burst and lithe being the most obvious two should have longer timers, and the ones with downsides, randomness or significant requirements (like drama, smash hit etc) should have less.
Also delete and rework vigil.
Then we can decide whether these kinds of addon are needed or even need adjusting or are worth using afterwards but keep the option there.
0
