Playing against Jason as survivor is incredibly boring
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That's only when coming out. He doesn't Instantly jump scare these time when he manifest for the survivors to get off the gen and crouch. He's pretty easy to counter with some knowledge. Survivors need to stop zig zagging when the spear is up it's accurate enough you can dodge it at distance.
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I would argue that I wouldn't mind taking the chase from him if whenever he spawned out of omnipresent gap fillers, such as windows and pallets weren't blocked for free, it almost like asking for a free hit or down. And as I've argued before in previous posts when it comes to "conveniently" placed windows and vaults its the same situation with gens, most gens are placed to where there one good way to go, and one bad way to go, usually the good way (which is where most mindful killers will contend) will be guarded while the bad way, will also likely lead you to get a spear in the back. I'm definitely not saying its never possible. I've had a few good runs and loops against him. But, in most of those cases it's been because he decided to start a chase out of omni or for whatever reason, user error, spawned from a less optimal resource. That said, forcing chases against him is quite boring especially speaking against well experienced killers who are used to throwing projectiles. you just get hit and die no matter how good you think you are.
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At the end of the day its doesn't matter since he's fun to play as so people will play him so it's a success and not the opposite or whatever Krasue where she's boring to play as and against
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100% agree with the OP. Super boring games where everyone is hiding 90% of the match. He desperately needs adjustments
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For me it's 2 things -
Get rid of the exhaust add-on or nerf it to 7 seconds. It really is that overpowered.
Spears should not hit over a square tile just like other projectiles when I am crouched. It actually dips so stop comparing it to other projectiles. It is wickedly fast like an instant almost.
Oh, and how convenient it is that almost every Jason game I play, 2 pallets are just non-existent. SERIOUSLY HOW MANY CRUTCHES DO YOU IDIOTS NEED!!!!
Oh yeah, this is why I remembered…10th Anniversary…BHVR is basically saying hey killers, you wanna win more? Buy JASON NOW! LOL and you guys fell right into their cash grab! Probably they aren't coming out with great enough epic survivors to buy.Post edited by hlambda on2 -
Also can you guys think of a better reason than…"Oh man, I am having a lot of fun playing Jason, don't nerf him"
Because I was having a lot of fun too when dead hard was dead hard and when decisive strike could be used as a trump card for that end game. Especially paired with the deliverance. I used to be unstoppable. Man I miss having that kind of fun.
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This killer's power lasts forever and barely has a cooldown. Can teleport basically anywhere since pallets and window vaults are literally everywhere. Even to second stories for free.
He powercreeps the hell out of every other teleporting killer and needs his teleport power reined in. The map pressure is way too much.
Crouching all game is not fun. After the first 5 games it isn't scary anymore. It's just annoying playing chicken with him until he finally chooses to appear.
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Jason grabs a spear like instantly…what other killer instantly grabs their projectile? UH NONE OF THEM. Also, most killers need to CHARGE UP their special attacks so that the survivor can get ready to dodge and be like oh here it comes…NOT SO with Jason! DBD DEVs itching for that cash!
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If this is your issue id advise running windows of opportunity, most the time you can get to a pallet/window before he gets to you. If your struggling to spot them this perk is a must have.
"Forcing chases against him is quite boring"- sadly this is not a reason to say he's busted, just that you don't find him fun. I know people agree with you, I personally don't. I love going against him as his spike has a small hitbox and is easy to juke. I often am the one to force chases and have managed a few times to force them to switch targets.
I love the challenge personally.
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Windows is not the answer to this problem and by all means it wont help, if the area he spawns from blocks majority of the immediate resources within his proximity. Suggesting windows to anyone is terrible advice.
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LOL windows of oppor what? what opportunity is there when he blocks it for a few seconds? The troll builds and troll counterplay builds are insane…calm spirit and then they run ungodly hex totems. Windows of opportunity and then crowd control or bamboozle or blood favor…He literally spawns on the pallet or the window?
Here is what I have found as a solo Q survivor:Finesse - not saying it guarantees anything, but it definitely helps to retain your first hit health seeing how once Jason teleports, you get EXHAUSTED. You Lithe on beta.
Quick and Quiet WITH Head On - So you're doing a generator, and then he goes into the foggy whispers…jump into the nearest locker immediately. Wait it out…Not saying it's perfect as they can run IRON MAIDEN…but it's a great middle finger to the killer.I take it back, you actually get EXHAUSTED IN A LOCKER! WILD!!! You would think….
THE ONLY RELIABLE EXHAUST PERK - SPRINT BURST- You preemptively make noise to bait him, and then start your exhaust perk.
Sadly, you're going to need Calm Spirit, but the counter play to is so EASY FOR HIM.
Resilience/Reactive Healing/Prove thyself/Teamwork:throwdown/Teamwork:collective stealth….BHVR wants you to use the new perks. While this is great, nobody should be forced to do anything.
Actually, Teamwork:Throwdown is garbage - I take it back…like when are you going to get a pallet stun off the spear chucker…never.
4th perk is ultimately how you jive.
lol windows….you take this if you actually suck at the game as a survivor.
If you can afford it - any health kit with SYRINGE and anything other add on - This is for you diehard exhaust perk users…since you're indefinitely going to get hit by Jason. Those of you who are like NUH UH I'm just that good I can dodge it, just get good. Seriously, the average DBD survivor is not FLEXCAM or S Tier Survivor. I think I am a pretty good survivor, but nowhere to the level of moonwalking consistently.
Taking the syringe is NOT COUNTERPLAY when you have to take a hit to activate it!
Counterplay means a direct denial of Jason, which absolutely trumps him as a killer.
But hey, if this is what it takes for BHVR to get more money to make it a better game in the long run…so be it.Post edited by hlambda on4 -
That sounds like serious overkill for Jason. To me he seems like a solid A tier killer, and A tier killers don't really need to be nerfed in any impactful way. The only nerf I would suggest is him not being able to see survivors in Omnipresent Evil when they work on totems. And maybe a very small cooldown increase for his Omnipresent Evil mode.
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You mean your B Tier Skilled mechanics with an S tier killer averages to A tier killer. That makes more sense.
Again, I stress that most of you guys are S tier yappers because you post a lot and believe you have the authority to speak from experience…when you just are that…yappers…
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You do realize there is such a thing as subjectivity, correct? Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean others enjoy that same thing.
You are not a beacon of objective thought to tell others how to feel about something else.
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Out of curiosity, not to be rude (as tone is very hard to pick up on the forums)
Why do you hold the opinion that he's fun to play, while also determining that you just accept the memo that you lose a lot as survivor? I just find that phrasing a bit odd.
That's like me saying, I enjoy playing as such and such killer but I just accept that each trial I just lose.
Or something I guess would be a complete mirror to what you said: it's fun to play survivor, but when I play Demogorgon I just accept that I will just lose therefore survivor needs some adjustments?
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And then when he gets inevitably nerfed and these people who played as him climbs MMR, goes back to their mains, and goes against high level survivors with macro knowledge - we will see killer meltdowns and the same tunneling/slugging mantra that follows every single update.
Why is that every single update like clockwork Behavior releases overtuned killers (who is playing the PTB?) how is that PC people play the PTB and hardly if ever have any issues with the PTB happens but then the killer comes to base game and people like KnightlightDBD (a comp player) does a #1 winstreak with him and all of a sudden people despise the killer because people who play at a high level master an overtuned killer, win repeatedly, and then massive nerfs to that killer?
You would think comp people or high MMR people (I can't play the PTB due to being on console) would have pointed out oppressive parts of his kit. - if this truly was how the PTB was where people played the PTB and saw nothing wrong with crouching during a power, a killer using hexes to force survivors into red mist to know exactly where you are, and is essentially anti-macro as a whole.
Where are the comp players and high MMR people to bring up these issues? Why are these things swept under the rug? This is why fundamentally this game could never be competitive. It's honestly embarrassing to me that Behavior released a killer that promotes people into passivity with Halloween on the horizon, but Behavior have shown time and time again how delusional they are to their own player base. I will not be surprised when survivor players migrate to these new asym games, it's evident as such as @Mandy who still has not responded to me how much of a travesty this game has become.
Post edited by CautionaryMary on0 -
Lmao what? I am an S tier yapper? What exactly does that even mean? If you think I only play killers that are S tier, and want all killers to be S tier, then you are mistaking quite heavily. I also doubt that Jason is S tier.
But I do want killers to be actually strong. Especially currently with most maps spawning a lot of pallets.
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He's s tier. Easily.
Right now, he has decent mobility, info, a ranged attack that also has a Mori for free.
And the nerf you've suggested is A) useless and B) doesn't stop the issues people reasonably have with him.
You can stop him getting info by crouching. Even without red mist you can hear people.
The real nerfs he needs are:
Increased power cd, decreased haste duration and less scrap piles to force him to rely on hooks more and punish him missing his ranged attack.
Then he'd be a low a tier killer. Still strong, but not busted.
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I want to be clear: I don’t hate Jason. Design-wise, I actually think he is one of the coolest killers they have released in a long time. His power fits the character, he feels unique, and I like strong killers in general.
That being said, after playing against him a lot since release, I do understand much better now why some very experienced players and comp players(Invic) rate him extremely high, even top 5. At first I thought that sounded exaggerated, especially coming from players(Dan) who usually don’t rate killers that highly without a good reason. But after around 60+ matches against Jason myself, with roughly 5,000 hours in the game, I can see where they are coming from.
The problem is not that one single part of his kit is completely broken by itself. The problem is how much his kit does at once, and how forgiving it is. He has map mobility through Omnipresent Evil, stealth, Haste after Jump Scare, Killer Instinct, window and pallet pressure, a fast ranged attack, knockback, impale pressure, tracking through the spike, a mini Mori condition, and very easy reload access through hooks and scrap piles. On top of that, he also gets extra map interaction points through already broken pallet-style spots, so it often feels like he has even more places to reappear from than the normal map resources would suggest.
His spikes are also a big part of the issue. They are fast to ready, hard to react to in many situations, and missing one often does not feel punishing enough because he can reload so easily. Against a competent Jason, loops, windows, and pallets become extremely dangerous because he is still a 115% killer, can threaten range, and often gets enough Haste value after Jump Scare to force very difficult situations very quickly.
The supposed counterplay exists in theory, but in real matches it often feels very limited. Yes, crouching can deny detection, but if Jason uses Omnipresent Evil mid-chase and immediately reappears through a window, pallet, or breakable wall, you usually do not have realistic time to crouch long enough. In chase, crouching is not real counterplay in many situations.
The same goes for some perk-based counterplay.
Chemical Trap sounds like it should be a very good answer on paper, because Jason wants to interact with dropped pallets through Omnipresent Evil / Jump Scare. But in practice, when he reappears at a trapped pallet and breaks/interacts with it through his power, he currently does not get slowed by Chemical Trap at all. Head On-style locker plays also become much weaker when add-ons like Sauna Rock are involved, because you can be revealed by Killer Instinct and hit with Exhaustion before the play even becomes realistic. At that point, it does not feel like healthy counterplay anymore, it just feels like the killer denies too many options at once.
I still don’t think he is as bad as The Ghoul was on release. That felt worse to me. But Jason’s risk/reward currently feels off. He gets a lot of value with very little downside, and once more players fully optimize him, I think more people will realize how strong his zoning, mobility, chase reset potential, and reload economy really are.
I don’t want him gutted. I actually like the killer a lot. But I do think he needs tuning. Omnipresent Evil should probably have a maximum duration instead of being something he can stay in forever, especially for endgame situations. Sauna Rock should also be looked at because guaranteed or near-guaranteed Exhaustion in chase does not feel fair. And his spike reload economy or miss punishment may need some adjustment so survivor outplays actually feel rewarding.
In a nutshell: marketing-wise(as usual), Jason is probably exactly where he is supposed to be right now. Gameplay-wise, I expect the usual post-DLC tuning in one or two months, once the hype settles and the data is clear.
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I have to disagree with that. Omnipresent mode is definitely good, just like his chase, but none of it is too oppressive in my opinion. There is enough counterplay to Jason.
The nerf I suggested is just to keep hex builds on him in check. Because I don't really believe he needs any other nerfs.
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I am guessing you are talking about me? If so, I have no idea what my post count has anything to do with this discussion. Those are just posts I made on these forums over many years, discussing all kinds of things regarding DBD.
And is this like all you got intellectually? Just attacking people personally as soon as they express an opinion you don't like?
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this guy made fun of people with high post counts in another post saying we basically are the ones stooping devs from looking at those with lower counts. saying that we are killer mains who control the game mechanically pretty much dont listen to him
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Yeah seems like quite the bitter person who can't deal with other people maybe having different opinions than them.
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I am sorry, was there an opinion on these stats? Also, why should anyone take your opinions seriously when it's based on your relevant gameplay. You actually want me to take you seriously and not the other way around because I am being "rude" when I called you out on your level of play. Some people are touchy.
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LOL, can't even see the sarcasm…man how oblivious are you.
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I mean i am a very oblivious person, but did detect the sarcasm, i was just trying to be funny
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No individual part of his kit is oppressive, but together with a good build he's insane. Easily rivals hillbilly (another s tier killer).
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oh in terms of mobility i agree 100%
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Again I am guessing you wanted to reply to me? Seems like you aren't even able to quote people properly.
Not even sure what you are trying to say with that second sentence. I simply post comments on these forums to have discussions, mainly about the balance of the game, and give my feedback about the game. Of course I would never expect the devs to only listen to me, or people like me, that would be stupid.
Also, I really don't care whether you take me seriously or not. You are clearly not the type of person I would ever listen to or care about. I just find it interesting how butthurt some people get over other people's opinions, and called you out on it.
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I can see why people would think that, Jason does have a lot going for him, I just personally don't quite agree with his kit being S tier. He has a lot of positives in his kit but survivors still also have quite a bit of counterplay against Jason.
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Clearly you do because thats why you have spent 114 hours to discuss about a game and have no life about it instead of playing it.
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Did you just argue I care about what you think of me because I have so many posts on these forums? Or am I misunderstanding you here? Because I am pretty sure those 6k posts I have weren't ever about you.
Also, considering you are the one who got all personal because I have a different opinion than you on a killer in DBD, I'd say you are the one without a life taking this game maybe a bit too serious. Just because I have made many posts among the many past years on these forums doesn't mean I am wasting my time not playing the game.
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I'm just poking you, you just keep on with the diatribes and the paragraphs…haha. Got'em. And guess what…if I get banned on this forum….oh man the humanity~~~
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I thought it was. don't mind those other people
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At least for me, he is easier to go against than to play as. He is not that hard to loop and after you understand how counter his OE it gets far less oppressive.
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Yeah I mean posting a few sentences isn't really that time consuming. And admittedily, I always find it interesting to converse on the internet with people like you that seem to stupid to be true.
In the end you are the one with the problem if you get triggered by differing opinions so easily.
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im convinced its just rage bait at this point
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From the guy who needs to analyze sentences and how people respond…maybe get your to, too, and twos in order. I am getting off before I become like you detestable human where your only interaction is on a forum.
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Very possible. But honestly it can still be amusing to converse with such people. And to be fair, people getting offensive over other people's opinions is not something incredibly rare or anything, especially among gaming communities.
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Jesus, now you are actually going for my writing mistakes. This is becoming more and more amusing. Also not sure when I analyzed any sentences, but I guess just reading what other people wrote seems like analyzing to someone as stupid as you.
But good idea, you probably generally need some time off the internet when other people can trigger you so easily with different opinions.
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Whaddaya mean hitscan it's a projectile
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No you're actually the one triggered by my comment on your game style. The same goes for you…you can't handle the truth or my opinion…IDC which you choose at this point.
Can't quote properly you said. Let's be tit for tat so I poked at your grammar…not that difficult to assess…
All I hear is you supporting that this killer isn't overpowered, and I think you're absolutely wrong and that is based on your subjective gameplay and experience. Now I am sorry I had to make a quick assessment of your gaming aptitude when you speak with authority.
The truth is survivors are getting gutted. No more exhaust perks allowed at the highest level of gameplay, but you refuse to recognize it and just simply say "Oh, he's just A tier at best" without actually commenting on the mechanics. No supporting evidence or reasoning, so why should anyone take you seriously…because you have more posts? That's what you're banking on.
Let me know when you get 7k posts buddy.-2 -
To add onto this and I will tag @Mandy again as I know she cannot functionally respond to what I said.
Here are the main core components that I have issues with the current Jason.
The red mist: the killer can see a survivor when they're healing, being healed, doing a totem, doing a chest, doing a gen (unless you add in the core component that we can crouch before doing an action, this is completely anti-macro and poor design philosophy. If I or others have to crouch during a power, that is functionally bad game design. The fact that the killer possesses the ability to have what is basically Henry's upside down traversal with the given benefit of information is broken by proxy.
Javelin misses: Yes, Jason gets punished for missing a Javelin throw as per usual with most of the ranged killers. However, most people who play Jason and the fact that there are so many hooks present on the map will go up to a hook, grab a Javelin, and continually pelt you over and over again. (which is whatever, to each their own) but I have noticed going against highly skilled Jason's that they will repeatedly and I mean repeatedly mess up by throwing multiple Javelins and either hitting you or smacking you down because they keep messing it up - they will go into their power, reset the hooks, and then hook normally. If you are going to have a killer who is penalized for missing Javelins, can pick up Javelins from hooks, push people to not go to their boxes, and then have a killer do a workaround (their OE cooldown isn't long and can be permanently held indefinitely, there needs to be downsides but instead what do we get massive advantages to know exactly where the survivor is.)???
Another point, you are near someone else and they get javelined and they go down, you go in the mending state. - this reminds of the Huntress bug where she could hit you with a hatch and injure both survivors at one time. So, not only do we have an information-heavy killer that forces survivors to play very passive (similar to the original Skull Merchant, I would even argue wasn't as punishing other than the gen-kick meta) but there is a lot baked into the kit.
If the game continues and Behavior doesn't address the passivity where you have to crouch to avoid (imagine a game telling you that you have to avoid objectives) a killer and they do not walk back at least some of the stuff that I've mentioned in the above, I will not be playing as much as I have because I refuse to have my MMR tank due to Behavior's questionable design choices and the fact that both high MMR (which is baffling that I come on here to communicate every now and then to help others or address issues when I can't even play the PTB to address these fundamental problems), comp players who abuse this stuff until they are at the whims of being on the other side, and content creators telling people to learn macro play when the killer disincentivizes macro play (I would love a video of Otzdarva and @ScottJund to actually detail what they believe to be actual survivor macro - they love to tout that word, but what is survivor macro? I know what it is, but these are content creators who are the "knowledgeable commentators" yet where is that information?
Imagine telling someone who plays Call of Duty that if you don't want to be shot, just prone on the ground, and walk across the map to do the objective. When someone loads into Valorant or CounterStrike Go (crouch to plant a bomb at A or B site to prevent being sniped with an AWP). This is where we are where others gaslight the other side to get gud, skill issues, learn macro (don't even explain it in their own videos), and learn micro.
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I enjoy playing him. I think he is a bit overtuned atm so I don't expect to win as survivor. In short I expect he will be nerfed in some aspects so I'm just mentally writing off all the loses against him as survivor I suppose. Even though I'm losing way more as survivor than normal, I still have fun trying to bait and dodge the projectile, or make fun and interesting plays against him.
As Jason, I'm not sweating and trying hard to win like when I play Onryo or Artist, I just bring a casual build and play him. I find he is strong enough that I can do well without meta builds so I run what is more fun. Everything about him feels very streamlined and fluid, like not having to reload at lockers feels great on the killer side for example, so this adds to how enjoyable he is to play. Though I do think this aspect of him needs to be nerfed as it power creeps the heck out of all the other range killers. Basically, I believe he needs nerfs, but I can still enjoy the aspects of him that are enjoyable before they happen. Also getting hits with his projectile is very satisfying.
To answer your question simply, for me as survivor my fun in the game isn't just walking out the gate, but the interactions along the way make it fun. Same with killer, I don't mind losing as long as there were some good chases and mind-games I was able to pull off. Easy 4ks are no fun at all compared to tense games that go down to the last gen. Jason is fun in his simplicity as a killer so I can run meme builds, and when facing him I don't have to stress about winning since in soloq since he is destroying it right now so I just focus on dodging his power and trying to extend chases which is still enjoyable. I feel like I wrote too much but hopefully that clarifies and properly answers your question.
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After playing around 25 survivor matches against Jason over the last four days, and after testing several different builds, I’ve come to the conclusion that, unfortunately, the most effective strategy is simply to rush generators.
It’s true that whenever Jason enters his invisibility mode, survivors often stop working on generators altogether, which makes matches feel slow, passive, and boring. And yes, the fact that his invisibility has no limit and can be activated repeatedly only makes this issue worse.
I had one match that lasted about 25 minutes where the last two survivors basically spent the entire time (15min) wandering around waiting for him to leave invisibility. That kind of gameplay just isn’t engaging for either side.
Another extremely frustrating issue is that, on three or four occasions, the killer would remain invisible near a hook, repeatedly injuring anyone who attempted to rescue a survivor. This is something that really needs to be addressed. It reminds me of the Bubba camping a hooked survivor until someone tried to save them. Very frustrating.
I think my escape rate against Jason seems to be somewhere around 25–30% (vs an average 60%) playing with random players. There were only a few matches where more than two survivors manage to escape.
I think the developers should seriously consider ways to improve/rework his gameplay dynamic. I'm leaving some options below to be further explored:
- Restricting how often invisibility can be used.
- Reducing the duration of invisibility.
- Preventing him from exiting invisibility too close to hooks with hooked survs (reducing camping and tunneling scenarios).
- Toning down some of the buffs he receives when leaving invisibility and scarying survivors.
I understand that Jason is a new killer and that players naturally need time to adapt. However, I think it important to make sure that some of the current mechanics don’t turn matches into tedious, frustrating experiences for both survivors and killers.
I think that it i pretty clear that some level of rework is needed. ✌️
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There is absolutely no need for name calling. You can state your opinion and disagree with others but calling someone a “detestable human” is just rude and unnecessary. It’s just a game.
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Do you have a problem with people who has been around for longer?
And how do you know what @hermitkermit is playing? I have never seen them play killer. But it is totally possible to see both sides of the gameplay aspect
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