Changes to cross examination
I am not sure if it's correct but it seems cross examination is getting changed to only activate while not in chase.
Now, before people break out the pitch forks, I am not saying the perk is not strong. I am not saying it is perfect the way it is or that it couldn't use a tweak. I am saying changing it that the lights left by the killer only showing when youre not in chase is not the way to do it.
My few arguments for the perk are as follows:
-Killers have how many undetectable perks and add ons, especially ones that give them the status effect for free just from existing in the match (like Insidious, Tinkerer or Unforeseen)? Survivors get one that essentially make them undetectable and its "too strong."
-It actually requires some level of skill to use properly in chase, it's not a free escape. It's not like old distortion, it does not promote hiding.
I think the better way to change it would be to make it activate only while in chase instead of the opposite. It forces survivors to take chase just like the change to distortion did as well as loop without just pre-dropping every pallet while holding W. Or make it last for 3 seconds instead of 5.
Making it activate only out of chase makes the perk completely useless, will promote hiding or will give survivors a better way to trail behind a chase for a bang or beam save without detection.
I see no benefits to this perk only activating when not in chase. If anyone can see anything I don't, please share. I am curious to see what other people think about the current state of the perk and how they feel about this potential change.
Comments
-
My few arguments for the perk are as follows:
-Killers have how many undetectable perks and add ons, especially ones that give them the status effect for free just from existing in the match (like Insidious, Tinkerer or Unforeseen)? Survivors get one that essentially make them undetectable and its "too strong."
-It actually requires some level of skill to use properly in chase, it's not a free escape. It's not like old distortion, it does not promote hiding.well ya elusive is a strong effect to can make a survivor basicly mak the time a killer spent finding them worthless you just delete that chase time while undetectable is used to help secure downs or start a chase making it not erase all the progress a survivor has made on something they are completely different sense survivors are the attackers and killers are the defenders. yes the perk is to strong when you can just make a killer have to guess 1 of 4 ways you could have gone with lithe because they have nothing to track and if they pick wrong all that chase time was for not. it would be like if killers got a perk that lett them spend 60 seconds in basement and they got a permant effect like how invocations work on survivors it would be broken sense they dont have the same restriction survivors have from it.
-5 -
also the point of the perk is you follow the killer while they are in chase with someone else and when the down the survivor your are there ready to save them sense the killer cant see your scratch marks or hear you.
-8 -
Your first mistake was assuming a new survivor perk is supposed to be anything but useless or incredibly niche.
10 -
For the "killers have many undetectable perks" the difference is survivors are third person. Survivor can hold check spots that even with undetectable especially mid chase they become virtually impossible to sneak up on. With killer literally ANY LOS broken is opportunity to slip away especially on maps with tall objects or lots of walls. Any time you would mind game yourself became a guessing game of "where did they go" with cross examination in play.
In my opinion this comes down to Elusive being such a loaded status effect. If it (in cross examinations case specifically) hid scratch marks and auras sure because then at least blood and grunts of pain would be trackable. But nearly all forms of tracking outside of visibly seeing the survivor no.2 -
I don't think the perk itself is too strong. You have eyes and can hear noises, it's similiar to existing combos you can run on indoor maps and yet you won't get trully a free getaway as many people are pinpointing to. But I do agree that against Spirit, this perk would make her completely unplayable. It's only 5s, but it means that if you chain it into extraordinary perceptions it would make Spirit a nightmare to play. I know that you can't count with going against her and I don¨t go against her at all. But 4.4 would also suffer on indoor maps when losing lines of sights. I just hope they add a few seconds to compensate for it not working in chase because 5s is a bit too short.
I've been testing stealth along with elusive and the ration of losing killers wasn't high enough for motivation to run this perk. After cross nerf I feel that Self-preservation will be only somwhat usefull perk and I kinda don't understand why elusive is part of extraordinary perceptions.
2 -
https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Five_Moves_Ahead
-4 -
dont forget
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Vigil
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Shoulder_the_Burden
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Plot_Twist
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Off_the_Record
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperfocus
-4 -
Most of latest DLC perks are nieche or useless. Let's be honest.
3 -
like who?
-4 -
Pretty much everyone from Orela to Shane. Or do you honestly see a lot of people running with Apocalyptic Ingenuity, Road Life, Change of Plan, and Rapid Response? Only one I can think of was Five Moves Ahead, but one out of however many isn't good.
6 -
i have seen a good amount of them the main problem is they arnt to weak its that the meta perks 1 have been in the game for years and 2 they need thought to use unlike the meta perks that are just equip and forget and thats not a bash on survivors its just that the meta perks and powerful and easy to use.
-13 -
I highly doubt you see anyone running the perks I've just mentioned considering their pick rate, and they are absolutely weak. They're not meta because they "require thought", it's because they're way too situational and get little to no value within a vast majority of the trials. Dead Hard gets way more use because you're always garutneed to be chased and injured. Throw down doesn't get much use because that endurance isn't worth it, and that's if you get the stun.
8 -
I will name just those from very few last DLCs because overall 85 % if not more of perks on both sides are underpowered or just completely useless.
Killer - Hex: Nothing But Misery, None Are Free, Haywire, Help Wanted, Phantom Fear, Hex: Overture of doom, Wandering eye, Ravenous, hex: scared to death, rampage
Survivors - Apocalyptic inguneity, come and get me, teamwork: toughen up, teamwork: thrown down, ghost notes, road life, teamwork: full circuit, change of plan, bada bada boom, teamwork: soft spoken, toughen up
-2 -
They are terrible. You can run no perks at all at this point because most of these perks give too little reward for a big work. While I'm not fan of free reward for no effort I don't see why popping on perks like road life to heal 100 % faster if not interrupted when you can run any other healing perk and do twice as good. Or to waste time searching chests just so you break pallet instantly when already many killers can easily bypass pallets or play around them. I can continue for a while. Those are issues on both sides. Slowdown perks and exhasution and antitunnel perks are all you go against. I currently for example run those perks mostly:
Survivor - open handed, dramaturgy, five moves ahead and vigil
Killer - genetic limits, lethal pursuer, turn back the clock and jagged compass
I just want the new perks to be strong so you see variety and cross-examination isn't too strong. If it's nerf well, whatever another perk you won¨t see. As well as most latest killer perks need overhaul or straight reworks. But we won't get any changes untill September as Judgement is on the way.
-1 -
I feel all the people saying "free escapes" are just listening to the alarmist content creators. This perk is actually pretty hard to use mid-chase.
10 -
Road Life or whatever it's called, Last stand or generally all the walking dead perks bar Conviction.
Invocations
I think Tae Young is the first who isn't, also why is the elusive fine on that for everyone since it's "free for just healing" essentially.
Like it's the same on both sides atm, so many perks have been released undertuned and there has been no news on actually making them worth peoples time, this problem isn't exclusive to survivor.
Hopefully we get fun buffs to all these cool concepts, but Cross examination should be monitored by the team, if its not a problem currently there is no reason to change it5 -
But it is problematic currently you get to escape chases for free meaning insane time gained from it loops that are 50/50 are now just fully survivor sided sense they can get a massive heas start due to the elusive. Being in 3rd person nerfs undetectable while first person buffs elusive. It also works though floord and walls so there is also that
-7 -
Vigil - useless if you're not running an exhaustion perk, which I rarely do.
Shoulder the Burden - Why are people still calling this perk good after content creators got it nerfed into the ground? It's basically a "please put me on death hook" perk.
How old are Plot Twist and Off the Record? I thought we were talking about newer perks being bad. And last is Hyperfocus which I would consider niche and it requires a full gen build just to be good.
4 -
Road Life will never be good when botany exists, they would need to remove all the downsides and it will still be not worth over it.
Place for us gives you elusive while healing, which in my opinion is also one of the worse perks. Bite the bullet hides all the noises and prevents perk like Coulrophobia from working. Elusive only adds anti aura which with aura perks being unpopular and staying still in one spot is pointless. Only somewhat usefull elusive is self-preservations and speaking of elusive it only does what other perks already do for years and they are not problematic.There are so many perks that give "elusive" without giving elusive and you don't see them because same as cross-axamination it's not as easy to lose line of sight.
What I would wish, because I love that perk is to make Extraordinary perception 2s rather than 4s or remove elusive and oblivious so the perk is much better at what it may does. Personally it will be a better still sight which again isn't even top half.
6 -
Road lifes issue isn't botany, it's the fact it stops working when you stop healing, if it were like we'll make it and a duration starting upon your next heal, it'd be much more effective.
Place for us is actually pretty useful for healing someone while someone else gets hooked etc, if you're lucky enough to get the obsession it can get a lot of value, I think removing the obsession requirement would make it much more useful.
Exactly, which is why Cross examination doesn't need nerfed.
Extra sensory being 2s, would really help it.4 -
Shoulder plus vigil with a exhaust perk and another perk of your choice like daju vu its an insaly strong build. Shoulder can literally remove all the pressure a killer has over a match.
-5 -
I haven't been playing survivor so I didn't get a chance to use it but I've been paying really close attention to this perk in my killer matches. I always like to see if the drama matches reality. It hasn't. 12 people used this perk against me. All 12 died, and all the matches were losses for the survivor teams. Their scratch marks would stop and start but the Elusive never lasted long enough to allow them to break LoS. This is once again a situation where the very idea (and not the reality) of a new survivor perk giving value was considered unacceptable. It's not even good in most hands, and it's heavily dependant on luck and RNG.
If the problem is that a perk might let you escape chases for free, I already do this with great results with Lucky Break. Not only do I get one or two get out of jail free cards in almost every match, I also get an anti-tunnel effect because most of the time it's still active when (and if) I get hooked. Elsuive does more, sure, but LB gives me a speed boost with the hit and it lasts longer.
The few matches I lost in these batch of matches were all to Stakeout/Hyperfocus users, not to CE. Once again, community outrage over nothing is keeping the meta alive.
7 -
Road life has too many conditions… you need to be injured so you already can heal rather than setting all it up, you need to hit 5 great skillchecks, which completely rely on skill check odds rng, then you need to have option to heal yourself and be safe to not be interupted. So rather than setting things up half the game you can heal 4s slower with botany that has no requirement at all.
As anti BBQ, I kinda wish they'd remove the obsession condition and make it regular or at least make it work on everyone healed. 30s is already quite short window where you mostly don't get much if any value.
Agree on cross.Yes please! :D
0 -
From my perspective shoulder can have insane potential if used in coordinated swf where everyone is running it which I have never ever met even shortly after the perk dropped. Shoulder is only usefull if the person that has it has no hook stage before using it. Which mean that killer has to hard tunnel someone else than you and once you use it and you both have one hook stage the smart killer can easily turn on you and have you out. In that scenario if they truly want to tunnel hard, they still can.
Vigil's most hated thing by me is that in reduces exposed which makes Starstruck, Friends Till The End, Haunted Ground or other perks too weak. I think they might make it so it only works on somebody else other than you. At this point cheesing exhaustion perks would not be a viable anymore and you would pick it to help your team's resistance. But sadly with so massive difference in killer weakness and strenght, resp. so strong and also so weak killers you can't compare to face sprint + vigil with Onryo or Nemsis while you wont truly care with Jason, kaneki, Krasue or many many many others.
1 -
That's my point. Cross is only 5s and can be somewhat usefull on indoor map if you get lucky los break. However if you truly want to pick this playstyle it already exists in the game for a while in I would say even better state and never shone. Speaking of lithe + dance with me, lucky break, lucky star, come and get me, toughen up, babysitter and many many many other perks.
1 -
This has been my consistent puzzlement with this argument. These perks already exists. I run a chase-ending/avoiding stealth build. They exist, and they work better than this one. Lucky Break/Iron Will/Overcome and I just disappear.
Even in an indoor map it's iffy. Someone used it against was on Tricketer's Delusion (which gets honorary indoor status) and even with all those twists and turns in the little shops they couldn't get enough distance before the marks started up again. That particular match really showed me how whatever the perk was. The scratch marks went away several times but he still couldn't lose me. It did nothing. The problem is that it's only 5s. That already made it weak enough without changing it. Now it's trash.
3 -
Last Stand and Conviction are great, potentially game changing perks. I am on board with everyone else that says Last Stand should be buffed to work twice like Plot Twist, though.
-1 -
I agree on conviction. Last stand in my opinion isn't that amazing but has it's fun element and opens up way for save. I think the duration may be reverted back to 60s and the perk would be fine.
3 -
Cross-examination is getting the Fog Vial treatment, where a niche new survivor thing gets completely gutted after a short time due to content creators who give terrible takes and are biased toward a single side, ringing an alarm bell so they can monetize their outrage take.
6 -
Unfortunately, they ruined the perk, now it’s total cra, just like all of Shane’s other perks. Yet they left totem abuser Jason and the killer himself completely untouched. It’s a double standard, I guess they didn't make enough money off him even after a heap of complaints from survivors about him being broken
2 -
Has anyone got the achievement for Wide Open Throttle yet? Reset the same pallet 3 times in one match. It's so impractical and just shows how they got this perk wrong (and the outrage was also unjustified)
-1 -
they didn't go back on this after we got real data and not knee-jerk reactions from internet people?
that's not inspiring me with confidence
1
