Announcement regarding the future of the Dead by Daylight Forums:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472588/future-of-dead-by-daylight-forums The forums will officially be closed from the 1st November 2026.
Stop hard tunneling.
Comments
-
mate…
A straw man argument is a logical error where someone changes or exaggerates an opponent's point to make it easier to attack.
Croger271's example of a false equivalence:
This would be like saying 'if a person can take money out of a bank when they have an account, why is it wrong for a person to take money out of a bank when they rob it. Either taking money out of the bank is always okay, or never okay'
You:
Robbing a bank is in no way a reasonable comparison to tunneling, and therefore THAT is why your argument is a strawman.
…like i don't even know if i can point it out better…
4 -
A different take on the subject or rather my 2 cents.
Rather than nerfing anything; take the reward away.
If someone is hard tunneling at 5 gen just remove their bloodpoint reward.
If the second hook is the same survivor 0 bp.
If the 3rd hook is still the same survivor 0bp and no kill bp.
This doesn't prevent anyone from from doing it.
They still gain their desperately needed MMR and ego trip.
They just suffer less blood web and won't be able to afford all those red add-ons for every match.
All players only gain bp by performing actions. Preventing a player from performing actions is the ultimate problem.
Generally, tunnel/slug killers earn less bp.
It's also frustrating getting tunneled out and earning less than 10k bp.
Make a scenario where the killer earns less than 10k bp.
This would instantly reduce people from hard tunneling as they aren't really earning anything.4 -
Tunneling is a core mechanic of DBD.
The counterplay to tunneling is either outperking the killer with the gazillion anti tunnel perks, getting better at chases or having teammates take hits/downs and cover for you instead of hiding in lockers. Asking the killer to play sub optimally for your own comfort/enjoyment is bogus in a pvp game
-8 -
Like I said, I'm not saying killers shouldn't tunnel ever. They shouldn't be throwing games in the name of the other side's enjoyment. What I'm saying is that hard tunneling one survivor to the exclusion of all else at the start of the game is a tactic that should be punished/prevented.
2 -
That would be one way of dealing with it. I'm sure some killers wouldn't care but there would definitely be some who'd spread their hooks for bp.
3 -
Killer takes the hard tunnel because the survivors make it possible.
If a survivor has no anti tunnel perks, is actively bad in chase and their teammates are not helping them, I will take it, since committing to them generates massive pressure. If I were to try to tunnel a survivor who has DS/teammates with STB, is good at playing tiles and their teammates properly rotate to take protection hits, its a different story, I lose too much time committing over a chase I cannot end, so I switch targets, its really that simple.
"b-but I do not want to run meta!" then accept that sometimes you will be tunneled or slugged and left to your own vices, especially if you are not as good at the game. I run goofy builds, I play without exhaustion perks, I still can hold decent chases and live to tell the tale since ive been playing since 2020 and have thousands of hours on both sides, if I get hard tunneled, I got outplayed and had weaker teammates, as simple as that.
-10 -
The two issues i have with this,
- If someone is tunneling to be a jerk, won't work they are doing it out of spite.
- Like with the PTB and how harsh it was for Anti tunneling, some survivors will think this makes them "invulnerable" if they touch a Gen after unhook, since your proposed system doesn't take that In to account
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
This content has been removed.
-
I mean the number of downvotes you attracted with that reply kind of speaks for itself.
For a start blaming it on survivors is wild. Running chase as survivor is absolutely the single most difficult skill to build in dbd. You can't expect the majority of players in this game to run chase well enough to be able to run a hard tunneling killer for 3-5 gens. Particularly since the second two chases they will start wounded. Having a team coordinated enough to get a killer of their targets back in this situation requires 3 or 4 man swfs with serious chase and flashlight skills. All that to counter a tactic that even the newest killers can pull off with minimal effort. And as a rule bodyblocking and interfereing with a chase when someone is being tunneled is a very bad idea, because unless you pull it off flawlessly it usually backfires and just gives the killer free hooks or mad slugging pressure while also not contributing to gens.
Secondly it's also mad boring. When I play killer I never hard tunnel like that right at the start of the game. Because it's such a tedious, skilless tactic, and without it most of my killer games are still wins. It puzzles me how many killers will sweat buckets for a 4k using cheap shots like that, because as killers those games are very boring and uninteresting with no sense of achievement. If i know I'm going to win 2 minutes into the gsme then what's the point?
5 -
chase is a core part of dbd, so is being alturistic. you do not need to be in a 10000 hour swf squad to have saves, bodyblocks and protection hits. I see such plays even on solo q / versing non swfs. Again, it is indeed survivors fault, killer can play however they want, if you are unable to punish their playstyle, then they win. for comparison complaints like "genrushing" or "bully squads" can also be blamed on the killer since the former is about being unable to create adequate pressure to force people off of gens and latter is due to being too nice and not slugging. the counterplay is right there baked into gameplay, git gud and utilize it instead of asking for even more blanket protections
-1 -
Ah wondered how long before the "git gud" would pop up. Problem with that is the skill requirement gap between the roles. Killer has a much lower skill requirement than survivor. Like a massive one. I have about 1600 hours, and as killer I often absolutely slam survivor in teams with 5-6k+ hours each, and I never enter a game and hard tunnel from the start. Conversley I have survivor games where killers with 100-300 hours get 4ks because they hard tunnel and either remove a player from the game extremely early or turn altruistic plays into snowballs to gain a bunch of pressure. It takes control of the game very early and a toddler could do it.
To "git gud" as a survivor in chase takes hundreds if not thousands of hours. Killer is much easier to pick up, even without relying on hard tunneling right off the bat, you'll regularly see killers with less than a third of the play time of their survivor opponents absolutely clap them. So by your mentality anyone who hasn't played the game for literal solid months of their lives just deserves to lose any game where a killer simply plays the cheap easy tactic.
Hard tunneling requires bare minimal competence at the game, whilst countering hard tunneling effectively requires an insane amount of hours gameplay, knowledge and reflexes that a good 70-80% of the playerbase simply doesn't possess. Just look at your example, you list genrushing and bully squads as the survivor equivalent to hard tunneling. But they are much easier to counter, there's a plethora of regression perks and bully squad tactics are much more likely to backfire and practically throw the game for survivors than secure a win. Dedicated anti tunnel perks are not great in number and on the whole are extremely weak, the only one that really works well is DS, and that is a one shot and gone. Most other anti tunnel perks like OTR etc are completely countered by simply proxying the hook and hitting the surv straight off hook and hounding them down. To effectively counter a hard tunnel you need either the tunneling target to astronomically outskill the killer and string 3 chases (2 at a major disadvantage) for 5 gens, and/or players who can pull altruistic plays without getting downed, which really means the killer needs to have the intelligence and tactical acumen of a concrete paving slab.
The only time hard tunneling hurts the killer is when the skill gap between them and the survivors is huge. It's a cheap, skilless tactic that is extremely difficult to counter, and more importantly isn't really fun for anyone involved. You remember that people are supposed to play games to have fun right? Winning by the quickest, most efficient and hard to counter playstyle is the mentality that causes people to cheat. And imo players who constantly hard tunnel are only one step up from cheaters, only because that kind of play legitimately exists due to the quirk of dbd being an asymmetric pvp game. Now with the offhook endurance actually being reduced this tactic only gets stronger.
6 -
I'm really surprised to see the thread revived after 11 days, especially without it being anything related to the topic.
Anyway, fallacies aren't just buzz words, they have meanings.
Strawman - someone argues against a position that the other person doesn't have
Moving the goalposts (not sure where this came from) - changing the demands for what evidence is needed to prove a point. Example: show me a game - okay, that doesn't count, show me five games - those don't count, show me 20 games.
I'm not doing either of those. I'm (twice, you keep ignoring the second comparison along with the general explanation) comparing your reasoning to other, clearly wrong (edit: just for clarity, being this is your focus of posts, the example is meant to be an obviously extreme scenario to demonstrate the fallacy you are committing), situations to demonstrate why its incorrect (a false equivalence). You don't have an answer for that so you seem to just be deflecting.
Anyway, the issue remains pretty simple - Just because some 'rules' that people try to create are wrong, doesn't mean all 'rules' are wrong
1 -
Ah wondered how long before the "git gud" would pop up. Problem with that is the skill requirement gap between the roles.This is a good point that you explain well, but there is something that often comes to my mind about it. We all own the same game. Its not like one group of humans was assigned survivors and another killers, though that does seem to be how people treat it. I think the logical explanation for why 'survivors' seem bad in comparison to 'killers' is that just the killer role is easier (which is also how they maintain a 60% KR).
7 -
Never said all rules were wrong, which is why your analogies were and still are bad. But, unless BHVR makes it a rule, the survivor rulebook nor the killer rulebook have any meaning. Is tunneling wrong? Nope. Is it something many survivor players find unfair? Yes. But it is not wrong and it's not against the rules. Robbing banks, that's against the law. Tunneling is not.
-1 -
Yeah too many tribal players. Only playing one side or other. Gives people a very skewed view on game balance since they only see one side of it.
0 -
yeah but regarding this issue specifically I genuinely have no idea how Tunneling at 5 is fun or engaging for Killers either… IDK why people don't want the core gameplay changed to make it unviable and more rewarding to play against all 4 survivors rather than a 1v1 until the game ends…
6 -
Never said all rules were wrong, which is why your analogies were and still are bad.I'll just quote you: "The Survivor Rulebook has no meaning, the Killer Rulebook has no meaning. Play how you want. You can't tell me not to tunnel just as I can't tell you not to gen rush. It's all absurd."
Note - It's all absurd.
I then went and explained why that was a false equivalence. You misunderstand that the examples were an explanation of what a false equivalence is. I'm explaining the logical error you are making and giving you two examples of what that logical error would look like in other scenarios.
But it is not wrong and it's not against the rules. Robbing banks, that's against the law.If robbing banks was not against the law, would it be okay?
0 -
Hence why i made this absolutely carcrash of a post 🙃
Personally I suspect that a lot of killers who argue for this tactic are people who use it as their go to tactic in most matches. There are some people who's only enjoyment when they play killer is to make the survs as miserable as possible and finish of with BMing and moris. Winning at all costs rather than taking enjoyment in the gameplay. There's a lot of players with that mentality unfortunately.
By extension losing frustrates them much more than most, which is why we see so many anti survivor posts, because newer or mid killer players ramp their mmr high by scratching out every 4k they can by any mean necessary, this pitches them against 5k hour swfs and who they can't compete with. They stay in this bracket for so long that their only game experience is that hardtunneling is the only way to secure a win. Leaning so hard into this tactic prevents them from building their broader killer skills and macro tactics. Creates a vicious cycle.
That's my theory at least.
6 -
got hard tunneled by a springtrap yesterday so i came to read this thread😓
3 -
I have suspected this for years as well, there are a lot more intentionally toxic killer players out there than people tend to admit, and Tunneling poses this unique problem where it absolutely sucks to deal with, even if its understandable, like its hard to really be mad if a killer resorts to tunneling off hook when they have three hooks at 2 gens, that just makes sense and gives the killer player pressure that they need to stay in the game. but even at its extreme Tunneling isn't considered "Toxic" or "Griefing" officially but it kind of definitely is… especially when the people who defend it are only able to come up with "but its an elimination game, and it's allowed, you just need to be better"
Tunneling at 5 is oftentimes either a clear attempt at the verifiably easiest, least interactive way to win regardless of individual skill, or people being toxic on purpose… I have encountered a fair bit of killers doing this over the years who make it a point to BM in the postgame lobby too and while you can report them for it if they go over the top, it's usually just them making it clear that they intended to tunnel from the beginning and they hope people had a terrible time. Even though that is a pretty rare interaction when all things are considered, it doesn't make it any less of a problem that its a core gameplay mechanic that's directly related to repeated toxic exchanges from both sides… it's also largely created a meta around the game that encourages survivors to pre leave, hold W, and Gen Rush or run full antitunnel because the alternate option is spend all game on a hook while your team tries to save you, or try to save a tunneled person with your team. and BHVR is in the middle of nerfing pre leaving as an option…5 -
At no point did he call the Survivor Rulebook equal to the Killer Rulebook or that tunneling was equal to gen rushing.
There is no false equivalence in the post that he made on August 5th. Let it rest.
-2 -
They literally says both have no meaning, I just quoted it.
Here is the quote on tunneling/gen rush:
You can't tell me not to tunnel just as I can't tell you not to gen rush.There is no false equivalence in the post that he made on August 5thThe discussion was going well before that, I can't go back and quote every post all the time. My response comes after quite a few back and forths, for example from July 29th post that started this chain of the thread -
No more genrushing, if you finish a generator before the killer has at least 2 hooks, stop and let them get those 2 hooks. It's only fair. 2 hooks per generator. Those are the new rules, and in return we promise not to tunnel.Proposing a bad rule as justification for why another rule shouldn't exist is a false equivalence (because the substance isn't that rules shouldn't exist, but the merit of the rule). The underlying fallacy became more evident over the discussion.
Let it rest.I'm not the one who revives the thread after a its been dormant for awhile. If a thread hasn't been touched in a day I let it go, but otherwise when someone responds to me if I have something to add, I do. It's a discussion forum after all.
0 -
I feel your pain 🥲
0 -
Very well put. It is depressing how many killer players just want to make the game miserable for every survivor they come across. I've had way more fun with dbd as killer simce i started being more chill and actively letting survivors go more often.
4 -
Entirely fixable by the way, but it won't be fixed unless BHVR considers actually expanding the objectives for the killer and the survivor. Right now the Killer wins by hooking people, the survivors win by doing gens. The Killer can tunnel and proxy camp because it forces survivors off of gens and into the hook. that's bad design because the killer has a lay up way to force survivors into losing scenarios just by doing the bare minimum on their end.
The game would have to be unreasonably survivor sided if most games went without even one person getting hooked, first hook is just a fact of a DBD game (except, as noted, in an extreme mismatch situation) and its basically unavoidable for survivors, but it immediately puts them in a "Damned if I do, Damned if I Don't" situation that is just by default too strong for the killer, so much so that it's a layup for 75% of killers to just do that immediately, because Only the killer can win around the hooks, they don't need to pressure the Gens and they don't need to run any survivor, they just need to make the game about the hook and not the gens.
Survivors and Killers need more objectives in game, I personally think BHVR should bend those objectives around the individual killers directly to make the killers more unique but also at the same time kill tunneling by adding some other form of win/lose where both sides can profit rather than a net deficit situation for survivors from the outset.2 -
I'm not sure if more objectives will help. Since the main focus is getting kills most killers will ignore existing side objectives until the game is practically won (e.g. glyphs)
Personally I'm in favour of making it much harder to hard tunnel while incentivising killers to spread hooks. And rebalancing chase to make it harder to hold chase for long periods of time. Perhaps messing with how blooust works. The reason players tunnel early is because they are bad at chase. Perhaos if there was a catchup mechanic that activated if a killer spends a certain amount of cumulative time in chase with individual survivors.
0 -
I mean there should be a few ways to win for either side that make sense directly regarding the killer in play. that way one killer or another isn't "Good or bad" at all of these things and it would do a lot to solve the "S Tier, F Tier" Tierlists because the matches would be personalized to the killer, things that would propose a direct threat to the killer winning the game if they want to just mindlessly camp a hook and then tunnel off of it. I just don't see a way in the current layout of the game they are going to be able to stop tunneling as being the consistent strategy because if you strip everything away except base gameplay the fact that the killer can win around the hook but the survivors cannot is why tunneling is so strong.
There's been basically zero core gameplay change in DBD for its entire existence and so no wonder tunneling and camping remains the same when they're trying to solve it with perks… its a problem with the actual gameplay design not perk stats0 -
Wasn't the MMR rework supposed to be their trial to reduce tunneling? We have the MMR rework now. Has tunneling been reduced? That is a rhetorical question. So when is slugging and tunneling going to be addressed as promised over a year ago?
2 -
That's not really true. It used to be that with an Ebony Mori offering killers could mori survivors after just downing them and later after just hooking them once and then downing them again. So killers used to have easy mode with a single offering.
On the other side the hatch used to be an insane mechanic. Without explaining it completely as it was quite complicated, the hatch would spawn with all 4 (edit to correct: 3) survivors still alive with 1 gen left and with just one key they could all escape.
So stuff used to be really broken on both sides, and in both cases it's just from bringing 1 thing. They deleted that stuff which changed the core gameplay, simplifying it.
The issue is that DbD got really lucky and found a simple formula in an asym that somehow works. And after seeing so many other asyms with different formulas fail time and time again including their own Deathgarden, it's understandable that they don't want to mess with it too much as they could kill the goose that laying golden eggs.
Whenever they try to mess with the core gameplay it backfires. There is no other asym we can point at and say "that's how it should be done."
0 -
Yeah I partially agree (as far as DBD Having found an overall good form for Asymm) but its important to note that neither old mori nor 4 man hatch are examples of a good "second objective" at all, Mori isn't even a second objective its just an insane shortening of the main objective. That doesn't mean that they cannot expand the core game to benefit both sides equally. I would say both old mori and old hatch had the primary fault of just being a net loss for the other side, there was no "win" in 4 man hatch for killer and there was no "win" in old mori for survivor.
Part of the failure of the other Asymms comes from single IP as well, although TCM was doing well until devs abandoned it and F13 is still beloved but was lost due to license problems. Ghost Busters and Evil Dead never had the benefit of being able to expand out of one setting, that is my same concern for Halloween. DBD has the unique stranglehold on the genre of having a large amount of horror icons all in one place even if (in my opinion) they do a pretty bad job of bringing them to life.
DBD has the problem now where there's "too much stuff" (not saying more content is a bad thing directly), and it's starting to overlap and have to be powercreeped to be "new and interesting". someone already pointed out that Judgement draws a lot from Pyramid Head for their kit, but especially perks… there's only so much they can reasonably do with perks considering how limited the actual gameplay is, but at the same time the game is changing killer wise… that's where the disparity between killers like Clown and Trapper and then Kaneki and Jason come in… balancing niche perks around a diverse roster of killers who don't even have the same level of raw capabilities is becoming impossible… there's a resonably strong case that in high MMR people kind of do have to tunnel on certain killers to stay in the game, but on the flipside if tunneling is available on B - F tier killers its also available on A - S Tier killers and it's a problem.
The Tunneling exists because it largely supercedes perks, yes there are perks to combat it, no they are often not used well enough to matter a lot, and killers have learned to play around the best of them. don't forget BT off of hook got lowered by 5 seconds because survivors were… using it to help their team (dang that is rough, we gotta nerf that!) and now killers who wan't to tunnel regardless can do it quicker… no matter what stats they change or tweak, whether its on perks, or base game functions like BT on Hook rescue, it can't fix the problem because in the current gameplay loop you have side A: where low tier killers need to tunnel and making it unviable for them makes the killers unviable (as much as I hate tunneling at all, I play bubba and not tunneling leaves me with a lot of 1 and 2 Kill games) but then you have side B: where high tier killers absolutely do not need to tunnel and do it anyway, but removing the general ability to tunnel through stats disproportionately affects group A, and increasing the ability to tunnel disproportionately affects group B.
This is why, in my opinion, the game has to change. and not in a way that just benefits one side or the other, one that just widens the playing field (while making sure killers who lack pressure have a way to keep up, hence my suggestion of making secondary objectives bend to the killer and be individual rather than generic)2 -
There were other asym games not based on single IPs like Video Horror Society and Last Year which failed in significant part thanks to the survivors being able to harder-bully and kill the killer. In DbD survivors can try to bully the killer but not at all like those games did.
there's a resonably strong case that in high MMR people kind of do have to tunnel on certain killers to stay in the game, but on the flipside if tunneling is available on B - F tier killers its also available on A - S Tier killers and it's a problem.
At least you see this, many forum members just get stuck on "tunneling is bad" and there is no discussion. Even with higher tier killers if you go up against a good enough team of survivors you may have to get an elimination ASAP to have a chance at winning. It doesn't take a comp SWF to make this necessary it can happen with 4 SoloQ survivors each with 5k hours each who have great game sense. (Although I am not sure current matchmaking even allows that but that's another discussion.) That's partly why I brought up old Ebony Moris in my pervious post, if the killer recognized the team in their lobby as a SWF or a group of good survivors they could equip an Ebony Mori (and also switch to their strongest killer) to level the playing field. But BHVR handed out Ebony Moris like candy and people abused them so we're not allowed to have nice things. Killers have less options to deal with these sweaty games so they resort to what they have left, tunneling and slugging. So now we have things like this thread trying to get rid of tunneling which could lead to killers knowing they're in a hopeless match as soon as they load in, i.e. "against this squad with this killer on this map I'm cooked."
The balance gap between killers is something I thought of a potential solution to. Have the maps generate based on the killer. Something like having 3 less pallets spawn on the map for D-tier killers, 2 less for C-Tier and 1 less for B-tier to start with. I think we wouldn't even notice a difference and they'd have to ramp it up even more, but it would be a start. This would be an easy-to-implement way to balance killers without having to do reworks and some killers can't even be buffed like Trapper who we all know is the best basement guardian in the game but it is still D-tier.
I also think map offerings should be retired then they could move to curated map lists for each killer, which would be affected by the killer's addon selections of course. I think this could actually be one of the better ideas to reduce tunneling because we'd get less of "OMG I got this dog doo doo map, I need to send someone back to the campfire immediately."
My last two paragraphs are probably too crazy to take seriously. But I do think they'd lead to more balanced and more fun matches.
1 -
Just correcting the way old hatch worked. Hatch would not appear for 4 survivors unless all 5 gens were completed. The rule was number of remaining survivors + 1 = number of gens that needed to be completed for hatch to appear. For hatch to appear with 1 gen remaining the max amount of survivors still alive that could escape would've been 3.
1 -
Yes, that is how it worked. I misremembered that convoluted formula.
I still remember a game where I was playing as Plague on Thompson House back in the day and I had a very tight 3 gen in the field with only 1 survivor dead, so I just kept patrolling and puking on the gens for about 5-10 minutes until they all eventually went poof through the floor hole. Given that same scenario today it's 3-4K guaranteed.
-1 -
The balance gap between killers is something I thought of a potential solution to. Have the maps generate based on the killer. Something like having 3 less pallets spawn on the map for D-tier killers, 2 less for C-Tier and 1 less for B-tier to start with. I think we wouldn't even notice a difference and they'd have to ramp it up even more, but it would be a start. This would be an easy-to-implement way to balance killers without having to do reworks and some killers can't even be buffed like Trapper who we all know is the best basement guardian in the game but it is still D-tier.
This wouldn't work because for example: Clown is bad but his counter play is also pre dropping pallets, removing pallets against him is not really a great fix especially with Vigil gone.
I do agree that making the killer "killable" is a kind of bad idea for Asymm games, it's partially why Evil Dead failed as well, I just didn't mention VHS cause I didn't play it so I can't really pretend like I know why it died. but I will say, interestingly, the killer being bullied and dying contributing to why VHS apparently failed is the same feeling a survivor gets when they are tunneled at 5… "why even bother if I can't do anything and I just die" is exactly what happens to tunneled survivors in basically everything except high MMR.
I just think, again, DBD is running into too many unsolvable issues with time that BHVR is trying to solve with perk balance and number changes that objectively don't fix the underlying problems and now the problems are stacking up. RNG is a major factor in DBD and at a point, to make the game "Fair" it has to go away, but I would argue that its good the game has RNG to the extent that it does, and it's bad that it has become so comp minded, I don't even think it's possible to truly make DBD "fair PVP", it's not compatible with the actual base design of the game, so why not lean into making the game more thematic and fun for both sides?
(That doesn't mean BHVR should just disregard obvious problems either though)
again, I just don't see an end to tunneling in the current design of the gameplay loop, as long as it's even possible, the people who are doing it to be toxic are still going to do it, and as long as it's valuable everyone who plays killer is going to do it. so if BHVR makes it possible but not valuable then only people intentionally being toxic are going to be doing it and if BHVR makes it not possible then there has to be something kind of major to fill the void for the sake of killer players.1 -
This wouldn't work because for example: Clown is bad but his counter play is also pre dropping pallets, removing pallets against him is not really a great fix especially with Vigil gone.
And this is why it's pointless to bring up workable ideas on these forums. There's always a bunch of people who will say "This wouldn't work because X" and almost no one who says "Broadly that's a good idea but we'd have to account for X."
-1 -
I guess, that's just my way of typing… I more or less was just trying to say "removing pallets" is another example of something survivors would have to get something in return for in the way of countering The Clown… hence why I kind of dismissed it as part of the endless cycle of good ideas that also require counterweights which make them less good ideas.
doesn't it make sense to just give the clown something else in his Kit over RNG limiters in special situations? that's part of the issue with the perk hell DBD has created where all of the sudden you have to consider all of the perks that work with pallets, kind of like they already addressed Vigil for Hindered..
another damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario…0 -
Clown is C-tier and it's not like having 2 less pallets spawn would make him magically A-tier, even now that Vigil has been nerfed.
I don't see why the survivors should "get something in return" for those 2 pallets not spawning. The survivors already got something. They're not against a Nurse, Blight or Ghoul.
To anyone reading this, please go downvote the OP. This thread needs to fade away.
-11 -
If you don't like a topic, you can just stop reading it
5 -
I can make reasonable requests and you can choose to not like them. I don't care.
-10 -
That is not reasonable. That's just straight ******* and completely unproductive.
7 -
Don't really know where the best place is where I can post my thoughts on Halloween the Game but from what I've seen so far it's another game competitor to dbd that I'm having a hard time thinking it'll be successful a few months after launch.
Dbd even with it's issues is head and shoulders above anything else and it just seems like it'll remain the case for a while 😅
I'm so confused in the copium and hopium of people who want new asymmetric games to do well solely because they bought them so it must deserve a chance when it's clearly a downgrade from F13😄
Omg I hope I'm wrong but credit to dbd Devs and the player base for being being determined to improve and vocal when something is obviously trash.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
(Best place would have been to create a new conversation)
But IDK, I think Halloween will do fine, to bring it back to the topic of this thread, A LOT of people are fed up with hard tunneling right now, and one of the things Halloween will offer is the opportunity to interact and even come back as another character after being killed. it will also have the VC people have requested for years and years, unlike DBD, and I love the depth put into bringing Michael to life…
However, there's just no way it will compete player for player against DBD, it's just not realistic… but I bet it will survive pretty handily for a decent amount of time and at least give BHVR some things to think about.
and most of all: the feel of a real slasher again! that's why I originally even picked up DBD… I love Halloween, Scream, Nightmare on Elm Street, ETC and have been upset that a lot of these horror icons feel poorly made or even worse, poorly remade in the case of Myers in DBD… hopefully DBD will see the positive response to an asymm game that favors horror and setting over perfect competitive gameplay (which DBD will never have anyway, no matter how hard people try to make it happen) I can't wait to feel like i am involved in a slasher and not "loop the knife guy" at least for a while.0 -
This is why i made the thread to spitball ideas to make hard tunneling unviable. Could've worded the title better I suppose.
2 -
This content has been removed.
-
Yh it was an actively bad idea that actually makes things easier for hard tunnelers. Since the elusive and endurance last the same amount of time, killers don't even need to count it off anymore. They can just hit as soon as scratch marks appear.
Plus the elusive doesn't actually do anything, since hard tunnelers are usually lurking near hook it doesn't help initially and 10 secs isn't long enough break los and make a clean getaway if the killer is anywhere near the hook.
1 -
The only time you'll ever see it stop if if bans happen and that will never happen.
1 -
V
2 -
Or they could implement a system where you can only play killer after X survivor games played past 5-10 killer daily. this would also help to fixing longer killer queues. Once a killer start getting tunneled out they may start thinking on how it feels when they do it to others.
0
