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Jigsaw Boxes and Blindness
I COULD be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that the Jigsaw Box aura is the only Survivor aura unaffected by Blindness. Now, the reason for that is obvious: taking away a Survivor's ability to see the boxes permanently with Face Mask would be ridiculous as hell for Survivors, especially Solo Survivors. (not to mention it would make Face Mask a much stronger Pig add-on than the Ultra Rare Rules Set No. 2). Even Hex: The Third Seal would be problematic for them, even if it would be a lot easier to remove the Totem to cure the Blindness.
That being said, I am still bothered by the inconsistency of it. It's not such a big issue that I'd be mad if this weren't changed or anything, but I would personally like to see SOME solution to this inconsistency (just like the lack of interaction between Hex: Huntress Lullaby and Jigsaw Box Skill Check). I wouldn't advocate for the Boxes to simply be affected by Blindness because that just seems like a bad idea. But is there something that could be done to the Jigsaw Boxes that could somehow remove this inconsistency without making it easier/harder to find the Jigsaw Boxes (like using something else instead of a straight-up Aura to identify the Boxes' locations)?
Comments
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As the whole snapping-out-of-it balance adjustment and mendings immunity to any healing penalty has shown, the devs would probably only release a statement that its intended lullaby isnt affecting those skillchecks.
Not seeing those boxes would probably be too strong. If that was implemented theyd probably nerf the timer to 4minutes or so.0 -
It's true Pig does need a lot of adjustments.
Her boxes should be affected by Lullaby and Blindness. It's not that hard to open your eyes and find the box. That blindness affecting the boxes being stronger than Rule Set #2 is only the case because Rule Set #2 is trash and should've just been in her base kit.
Her addons affecting skill checks on boxes are also just so bad. Those addons should make the skillchecks go from the opposite direction and make the skill checks MUCH smaller.
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1) The reason they did the adjustments for Snap-Out-Of-It and declared Mending to not be affected by perks that care about healing was because they wanted to fix up the inconsistencies of some perks/add-ons affecting some conditions that technically count as healing and some not (example: A Nurse's Calling affeecting Snap Out of It but Coulrophobia not doing so). Now, the healing action has a clear definition: An action that will increase a player's Health State. Since neither Snap-Out-Of-It nor Mending actually do that (even if flavorfully, mending is healing), they are unaffected by those perks.Raptorrotas said:As the whole snapping-out-of-it balance adjustment and mendings immunity to any healing penalty has shown, the devs would probably only release a statement that its intended lullaby isnt affecting those skillchecks.
Not seeing those boxes would probably be too strong. If that was implemented theyd probably nerf the timer to 4minutes or so.
This mentality contradicts the (lack of) interaction between Hex: Huntress Lullaby and Jigsaw Boxes. Jigsaw Box Skill Checks are no different from other Skill Checks; Hex: Huntress Lullaby not working with this Skill Checks is flat-out inconsistent.
2) I agree that just taking away the Box auras flat-out would be too strong, which is why I said I am not advocating for that. What I would like to see is some sort of change somewhere that would remove this inconsistency while still allowing Survivors to find boxes in a reasonable time.
I agree about her boxes being affected by Lullaby but not about being affected by Blindless. Jigsaw Boxes are not like Generators that have giant antennae sticking up that allow players to see them from far away. They don't stick up into the sky like Gens, they can be tucked away, and it's not uncommon for them to be inside a shack or something. I'm all for making RSN2 base kit, but I think having a way to permanently shut off Jigsaw Box auras is a step too far.Blueberry said:It's true Pig does need a lot of adjustments.
Her boxes should be affected by Lullaby and Blindness. It's not that hard to open your eyes and find the box. That blindness affecting the boxes being stronger than Rule Set #2 is only the case because Rule Set #2 is trash and should've just been in her base kit.
Her addons affecting skill checks on boxes are also just so bad. Those addons should make the skillchecks go from the opposite direction and make the skill checks MUCH smaller.
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I think you should only be able to see boxes you've come across.1
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Huntress' Lullaby ought to work on it. It's fair that Blindness doesn't, BUT...
I would like to see an addon that limits the proximity in which survivors can see box auras. Rules Set No. 2 should reduce your ability to see boxes to 12-16 meters around you once your timer starts. This still leaves a chunk of Amanda's addons to be pure trash, but it would at least make Rules Set No. 2 a lot more worthy of being Ultra Rare...
Whether Third Seal should work is hard to say. I would rather say no and see the perk buffed (EG: Not a Hex and retaining the need to hit each survivor; or remaining a Hex and automatically applying to everyone at the start with no warning.)
The main issue with Blindness is that it's generally quite weak unless it's coming from Third Seal. And then Third Seal is only very effective once you've hit at least 3 different survivors. The Pig's pressure from her traps is relatively balanced, and locking people out from seeing boxes at all wouldn't just make her OP: it would straight-up break her because finding boxes can be a bit hard. Coupling blindness to her boxes would make the 5-6 boxes or/and Tampered Timer busted as hell with even the sliiiightest bit of bad RNG on the survivor's part.
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@Eninya said:
Huntress' Lullaby ought to work on it. It's fair that Blindness doesn't, BUT...I would like to see an addon that limits the proximity in which survivors can see box auras. Rules Set No. 2 should reduce your ability to see boxes to 12-16 meters around you once your timer starts. This still leaves a chunk of Amanda's addons to be pure trash, but it would at least make Rules Set No. 2 a lot more worthy of being Ultra Rare...
Whether Third Seal should work is hard to say. I would rather say no and see the perk buffed (EG: Not a Hex and retaining the need to hit each survivor; or remaining a Hex and automatically applying to everyone at the start with no warning.)
The main issue with Blindness is that it's generally quite weak unless it's coming from Third Seal. And then Third Seal is only very effective once you've hit at least 3 different survivors. The Pig's pressure from her traps is relatively balanced, and locking people out from seeing boxes at all wouldn't just make her OP: it would straight-up break her because finding boxes can be a bit hard. Coupling blindness to her boxes would make the 5-6 boxes or/and Tampered Timer busted as hell with even the sliiiightest bit of bad RNG on the survivor's part.
Yeah, like I said earlier, I would not advocate for Jigsaw Box auras to be affected by Blindness because that would be overkill. I just want something changed so Blindness isn't "Shuts off Auras for Survivors...except for Jigsaw Boxes because that's OP." Basically, I don't want another "Coulrophobia doesn't work with Snap Out of It for balance reasons" scenario (something that they did eventually get around to solving without necessarily just letting Coulrophobia affect Snap Out of It). Or, I guess to be more relevant to the Pig, I don't want another "Hex: Huntress Lullaby screws around with Skill Checks...except for Jigsaw Box Skill Checks." The one-off exception just bothers me a decent bit. With Lullaby, it's probably just as easy as letting it affect Jigsaw Boxes. With Face Mask + Hex: The Third Seal, it's more complicated because the easiest solution (letting them affect Jigsaw Boxes) is probably the worst one.
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Here's my solution:
Regardless of the skill check, any debuff can be applied to them such as Unnerving Presence, Lullaby, and etc.
-Jigsaw Boxes will be affected by lullaby and Unnerving Presence to keep things consistent.
Regardless of the the action you are performing, all speed penalties should affect that action.
-Jigsaw Boxes will be affected by Dying Light, Thanatophobia, and etc.
-Same thing with totems, exit gates, chests, unhooking, attempting to unhook yourself, and etc.
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Blindness:
-The current version of Rules Set NO.2 should be baseline.
-The new version of Rules Set NO.2 will now immediately activate the trap, remove the Jigsaw Boxes' auras whenever the trap is activated BUT at the cost of adding a minute to the timer.
-Face Mask will now make it harder to concentrate and will decrease the success zones for the Jigsaw Box.
-Jigsaw Boxes auras will now be affected by Blindness BUT due to the lore of Jigsaw, his victims must have a chance to win. Therefore, blinded survivors will have their RBT timer slown down by 50%.0 -
There are add ons that remove the jigsaw boxes aura already on the pig, as for huntress lullaby and the box skill checks I never have noticed TBH because the totems go quick , if anything that perk needs a buff to not notify you of the hex being there until it's already in effect because someone can start a gen and then immediately go cleanse it before it even has a chanceTAG said:Hex: Huntress Lullaby not working with Jigsaw Box Skill Checks is inconsistent and should certainly be looked at, but I'd also kinda like to turn the attention a bit towards Jigsaw Boxes auras and Blindness.
I COULD be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that the Jigsaw Box aura is the only Survivor aura unaffected by Blindness. Now, the reason for that is obvious: taking away a Survivor's ability to see the boxes permanently with Face Mask would be ridiculous as hell for Survivors, especially Solo Survivors. (not to mention it would make Face Mask a much stronger Pig add-on than the Ultra Rare Rules Set No. 2). Even Hex: The Third Seal would be problematic for them, even if it would be a lot easier to remove the Totem to cure the Blindness.
That being said, I am still bothered by the inconsistency of it. It's not such a big issue that I'd be mad if this weren't changed or anything, but I would personally like to see SOME solution to this inconsistency (just like the lack of interaction between Hex: Huntress Lullaby and Jigsaw Box Skill Check). I wouldn't advocate for the Boxes to simply be affected by Blindness because that just seems like a bad idea. But is there something that could be done to the Jigsaw Boxes that could somehow remove this inconsistency without making it easier/harder to find the Jigsaw Boxes (like using something else instead of a straight-up Aura to identify the Boxes' locations)?0 -
@Kaalaxi said:
I think you should only be able to see boxes you've come across.you know what, you're right.it should be like the Map item and the aura is shown if you're within 8 meters of the box. 16 meters with Open-Handed. The Macabre search skill checks should be harder at base too.
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My point isn't that I want the box auras to be taken away; it's that I don't like that there's an inconsistency between how Blindness interacts with I'm pretty sure every other aura and how it interacts with Jigsaw auras specifically. Rules Set No. 2 shutting off the Jigsaw auras isn't actually fixing the inconsistency; it's just repackaging it as a different effect. If they found a way to hypothetically replace the box auras with something that would still allow Survivors to find the boxes just as reliably, then you wouldn't have to worry about the Blindness inconsistency.OrionsFury4789 said:
There are add ons that remove the jigsaw boxes aura already on the pig, as for huntress lullaby and the box skill checks I never have noticed TBH because the totems go quick , if anything that perk needs a buff to not notify you of the hex being there until it's already in effect because someone can start a gen and then immediately go cleanse it before it even has a chanceTAG said:Hex: Huntress Lullaby not working with Jigsaw Box Skill Checks is inconsistent and should certainly be looked at, but I'd also kinda like to turn the attention a bit towards Jigsaw Boxes auras and Blindness.
I COULD be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that the Jigsaw Box aura is the only Survivor aura unaffected by Blindness. Now, the reason for that is obvious: taking away a Survivor's ability to see the boxes permanently with Face Mask would be ridiculous as hell for Survivors, especially Solo Survivors. (not to mention it would make Face Mask a much stronger Pig add-on than the Ultra Rare Rules Set No. 2). Even Hex: The Third Seal would be problematic for them, even if it would be a lot easier to remove the Totem to cure the Blindness.
That being said, I am still bothered by the inconsistency of it. It's not such a big issue that I'd be mad if this weren't changed or anything, but I would personally like to see SOME solution to this inconsistency (just like the lack of interaction between Hex: Huntress Lullaby and Jigsaw Box Skill Check). I wouldn't advocate for the Boxes to simply be affected by Blindness because that just seems like a bad idea. But is there something that could be done to the Jigsaw Boxes that could somehow remove this inconsistency without making it easier/harder to find the Jigsaw Boxes (like using something else instead of a straight-up Aura to identify the Boxes' locations)?
As for Huntress Lullaby, I had an idea sometime back that would remedy that issue: basically, I think Hex perks should not be applied to totems immediately and instead be applied to them after certain conditions are met (for example, for Huntress Lullaby, a Dull Totem would not be lit until you have acquired two tokens with it).
Interesting ideas. I previously had the idea of turning off box auras completely in exchange for much more time on the clock as a replacement for RSN2; I was just never sure if the downside on it was sufficient (especially if you no longer have to wait for gens to start the clock).Nickenzie said:Here's my solution:
Regardless of the skill check, any debuff can be applied to them such as Unnerving Presence, Lullaby, and etc.
-Jigsaw Boxes will be affected by lullaby and Unnerving Presence to keep things consistent.
Regardless of the the action you are performing, all speed penalties should affect that action.
-Jigsaw Boxes will be affected by Dying Light, Thanatophobia, and etc.
-Same thing with totems, exit gates, chests, unhooking, attempting to unhook yourself, and etc.
____________________________________________
Blindness:
-The current version of Rules Set NO.2 should be baseline.
-The new version of Rules Set NO.2 will now immediately activate the trap, remove the Jigsaw Boxes' auras whenever the trap is activated BUT at the cost of adding a minute to the timer.
-Face Mask will now make it harder to concentrate and will decrease the success zones for the Jigsaw Box.
-Jigsaw Boxes auras will now be affected by Blindness BUT due to the lore of Jigsaw, his victims must have a chance to win. Therefore, blinded survivors will have their RBT timer slown down by 50%.
That being said, Face Mask and Rules Set No. 2 would be too similar for my liking, especially with one at an Uncommon and one at an Ultra Rare. IMO, Blindness would be irrelevant to a Survivor with an RBT except for losing the box auras (hence why current Face Mask sucks in my opinion), so in the end, you have two add-ons at vastly different rarities that both shut off box auras and raise the timer by a hefty amount (up to 3:30 for RSN2 and up to a gargantuan 5 minutes for Face Mask), and the only meaningful difference between them beyond the difference in time is that the Ultra Rare makes the RBTs not need to wait for a gen to pop. I think the end result is that either Face Mask becomes REALLY good at wasting time and RSN2 becomes busted, or neither perk becomes good because the clock was raised high enough such that they may as well be infinity.
Maybe I'm being a bit overly cautious, but I worry that even something like that would be a bit too much. I don't think 8 meters is much at all to work with, so it would be pretty close to just losing the auras completely and could be a big issue with Tampered Timer.Mat_Sella said:@Kaalaxi said:
I think you should only be able to see boxes you've come across.you know what, you're right.it should be like the Map item and the aura is shown if you're within 8 meters of the box. 16 meters with Open-Handed. The Macabre search skill checks should be harder at base too.
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