The Red Stain

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Beaburd
Beaburd Member Posts: 954

Soo, uhh, does this thing go through walls?

Was playing Meyer's Map, Lampkin Lane, and trying out paintbrush + monitor and abuse Freddy. I would sleep people, let them go, then sneak up behind them by using walls as cover. The issue was I noticed people were perfectly evading me, running in the opposite direction I was even when I was fully concealed behind a house wall. Happened multiple times, and in end-game chat I was told my red glow goes through the walls and reveals me. Is that true?

I'm really trying to give Freddy a chance here, but he's making me cringe right now.

Comments

  • SovererignKing
    SovererignKing Member Posts: 1,273
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    Yes, unfortunately the Red Stain does go through walls right now. I’m not sure if this is intended or a bug. It should be changed/fixed though. This removes so many mind game potentials at Loops with high walls. It’s why I scoffed when the developers said they were going to make objects around Loops taller, the Red Stain negates a lot of the potential of mind games. The best you can do is moon walk, and walk backwards to try to make it look like you’re going forward. Turn away from the Survivors position. 

    To me, the Red Stain is kind of an outdated mechanic anyway. 
  • RATT
    RATT Member Posts: 33
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    In my experience, I've looped multiple times following the Red Stain, in which a lot of times has come through the wall. I have 900+ hrs in DbD, most as a survivor main, and I can account for the people who claim that. I'm not sure if the developers intended the Red Stain to work as such or not, but there's no denying that it has come through walls in the past, though it doesn't always. I mean, if you really wanted to get rid of it, though I don't recommend using this perk on Freddy in specific--- use the Huntress' Beast of Prey perk to eliminate the Red Stain.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
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    Ah, alright, thanks for the info you two.

    That's a real shame. I was hoping I was being sly hiding behind walls, but apparently not. Beast of Prey isn't something I'm interested in either unfortunately since for my stealth characters I like to break off chases and the perk only activates when in a chase long enough to get bloodlust more or less. That, and I find the two minute cooldown ridiculous, particularly when compared with any other strong perks cooldown (sprint burst, 40 seconds).

  • Ancheri
    Ancheri Member Posts: 157
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    In my opinion this is actually one of the key abilities a killer needs to be capable of. A good killer will always try to moonwalk on several spots in order to not let the survs know where he is coming from by showing the red stain accidentally through a wall. As a killer main I honestly love that mechanic, that makes you feel even better when downing a surv after a successful mind game.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
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    @Ancheri said:
    In my opinion this is actually one of the key abilities a killer needs to be capable of. A good killer will always try to moonwalk on several spots in order to not let the survs know where he is coming from by showing the red stain accidentally through a wall. As a killer main I honestly love that mechanic, that makes you feel even better when downing a surv after a successful mind game.

    When it defeats the purpose of Freddy, who in that scenario, was supposed to have an informational advantage it makes little sense to me that I'm forced to look away from a solid house wall in Lampkin (not cracked, like farm walls) and give that advantage up in an attempt to confuse my enemy by hiding the light.

    But I guess it's also just another Freddy problem, since these walls in particular brought about a unique situation based on his power. Man, it is really hard to like this killer in high ranks.

  • RATT
    RATT Member Posts: 33
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    @Ancheri said:
    In my opinion this is actually one of the key abilities a killer needs to be capable of. A good killer will always try to moonwalk on several spots in order to not let the survs know where he is coming from by showing the red stain accidentally through a wall. As a killer main I honestly love that mechanic, that makes you feel even better when downing a surv after a successful mind game.

    Hmm, I feel what you're getting at. It makes it feel more rewarding, yes. But I'm still not sure if the Developers intended the Red Stain to function as so. I guess it makes for good practice.

    @Beaburd said:
    Ah, alright, thanks for the info you two.

    That's a real shame. I was hoping I was being sly hiding behind walls, but apparently not. Beast of Prey isn't something I'm interested in either unfortunately since for my stealth characters I like to break off chases and the perk only activates when in a chase long enough to get bloodlust more or less. That, and I find the two minute cooldown ridiculous, particularly when compared with any other strong perks cooldown (sprint burst, 40 seconds).

    Yeah. I was just saying if it drastically effects you or the way you play, or seriously bothers you, that's about the closest you can get to a "fix". But it's just another one of those perks, that if it's not used in a specific build it's basically just taking up a free spot in your Perk loadout. But, if used in a proper build, I'm sure it can be used as a massive strength during gameplay.

  • RATT
    RATT Member Posts: 33
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    @Beaburd said:

    @Ancheri said:
    In my opinion this is actually one of the key abilities a killer needs to be capable of. A good killer will always try to moonwalk on several spots in order to not let the survs know where he is coming from by showing the red stain accidentally through a wall. As a killer main I honestly love that mechanic, that makes you feel even better when downing a surv after a successful mind game.

    When it defeats the purpose of Freddy, who in that scenario, was supposed to have an informational advantage it makes little sense to me that I'm forced to look away from a solid house wall in Lampkin (not cracked, like farm walls) and give that advantage up in an attempt to confuse my enemy by hiding the light.

    But I guess it's also just another Freddy problem, since these walls in particular brought about a unique situation based on his power. Man, it is really hard to like this killer in high ranks.

    Oh yeah, not to mention Freddy is already a difficult type of killer to play. Given most of the time to get a couple kills you have to tunnel, have great addons, or a Gen regression build applied. So I can imagine how frustrating the Red Stain would be, being looped to ######### by a survivor as Freddy.

  • Ancheri
    Ancheri Member Posts: 157
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    @Beaburd said:
    Ah, alright, thanks for the info you two.

    That's a real shame. I was hoping I was being sly hiding behind walls, but apparently not. Beast of Prey isn't something I'm interested in either unfortunately since for my stealth characters I like to break off chases and the perk only activates when in a chase long enough to get bloodlust more or less. That, and I find the two minute cooldown ridiculous, particularly when compared with any other strong perks cooldown (sprint burst, 40 seconds).

    I totally agree with regards to the uselessness of Beat of Prey. When the perk has been announced for the first time I was quite hyped about the idea. It seemed like a great perk to support the learn effect of the actual hunt taking away the decisions you have to make about the red stain and giving you the ability to focus on more important aspects of the chase. But unfortunately the high cooldown and the fact that you cannot trigger it at will (like Dead Heart f.e. - they wanted to implement those "activate ability perks" for killers as well) makes the perk an almost useless tool to me. I honestly hope Beast of Prey is gonna experience a buff soon.

  • Ancheri
    Ancheri Member Posts: 157
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    @Beaburd said:

    @Ancheri said:
    In my opinion this is actually one of the key abilities a killer needs to be capable of. A good killer will always try to moonwalk on several spots in order to not let the survs know where he is coming from by showing the red stain accidentally through a wall. As a killer main I honestly love that mechanic, that makes you feel even better when downing a surv after a successful mind game.

    When it defeats the purpose of Freddy, who in that scenario, was supposed to have an informational advantage it makes little sense to me that I'm forced to look away from a solid house wall in Lampkin (not cracked, like farm walls) and give that advantage up in an attempt to confuse my enemy by hiding the light.

    But I guess it's also just another Freddy problem, since these walls in particular brought about a unique situation based on his power. Man, it is really hard to like this killer in high ranks.

    There are several experiments going on with the red stain: Beast of Prey, The Doctor's Discipline Addon, Michael Myers on T1 loses his red stain completely... As I already mentioned I would be quite unhappy if they removed it completely (cuz I luv mindgaming on my billy). But I think it might be a good way to buff several killers or introduce new mechanics and perks. I agree on the fact that Freddy is quite a hard killer to play. I get your intention of giving Freddy the complete informational advantage, that he needs in order to overcome his numerous disadvantages (like having to pull people into the dream world). I could imagine him to be quite viable without the red stain, so yeah... probably a good way to give him some love <3

  • RATT
    RATT Member Posts: 33
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    @Ancheri said:

    @Beaburd said:
    Ah, alright, thanks for the info you two.

    That's a real shame. I was hoping I was being sly hiding behind walls, but apparently not. Beast of Prey isn't something I'm interested in either unfortunately since for my stealth characters I like to break off chases and the perk only activates when in a chase long enough to get bloodlust more or less. That, and I find the two minute cooldown ridiculous, particularly when compared with any other strong perks cooldown (sprint burst, 40 seconds).

    I totally agree with regards to the uselessness of Beat of Prey. When the perk has been announced for the first time I was quite hyped about the idea. It seemed like a great perk to support the learn effect of the actual hunt taking away the decisions you have to make about the red stain and giving you the ability to focus on more important aspects of the chase. But unfortunately the high cooldown and the fact that you cannot trigger it at will (like Dead Heart f.e. - they wanted to implement those "activate ability perks" for killers as well) makes the perk an almost useless tool to me. I honestly hope Beast of Prey is gonna experience a buff soon.

    Well yeah, I agree with that too, but right now I believe it to be one of those perks that has potential in a build that provides it support. Though, maybe not much potential, at the very least, make it more useful than it is currently as a "stand-alone" perk. I also hope to see some sort of buff on Beast of Prey's behalf in future updates. It really could be a great perk.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200
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    @Beaburd said:
    Soo, uhh, does this thing go through walls?

    Was playing Meyer's Map, Lampkin Lane, and trying out paintbrush + monitor and abuse Freddy. I would sleep people, let them go, then sneak up behind them by using walls as cover. The issue was I noticed people were perfectly evading me, running in the opposite direction I was even when I was fully concealed behind a house wall. Happened multiple times, and in end-game chat I was told my red glow goes through the walls and reveals me. Is that true?

    I'm really trying to give Freddy a chance here, but he's making me cringe right now.

    Yes it goes through solid walls and the light even bends around corners.
    Welcome to playing killer in DBD

  • DasMurich
    DasMurich Member Posts: 67
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    What exactly is the purpose of "the red stain"?
  • RATT
    RATT Member Posts: 33
    edited June 2018
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    @DasMurich said:
    What exactly is the purpose of "the red stain"?

    The purpose of the Red Stain is to create a more challenging and fair chase. Let's pretend the Red Stain doesn't exist for a second. If you're a survivor and you're being chased by a killer, and the options you have to lose the killer are vaulting, and looping, with an occasional juke-- you might as well kiss a fair chance at surviving goodbye. Looping in jungle gyms would be difficult if you couldn't see what corner the killer is coming from considering the tight corners. You would die fairly quick.

    Now with the Red Stain, you're able to predict what side a killer is going to come from, the Red Stain creates the option for a better, more challenging, chase--- as well as opening an option for various mind game strategies to improve your gameplay.

    Though I'm not sure if the Red Stain is intentionally meant to leak through walls, and bend hard around corners. So.... RIP.

    Post edited by RATT on
  • Snapshot
    Snapshot Member Posts: 903
    edited June 2018
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    I bet this is a bug. How could the red stain go through walls? Basically, it's a red light, and as every other light (e.g. flashlight beam) in the game, walls etc. should block it. Also, the killer can't see through walls (maybe the red stain should go through walls only if e.g. the wraith has the "wallhack" addon)
    Would wait for an official dev answer tho

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200
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    @RATT said:

    @DasMurich said:
    What exactly is the purpose of "the red stain"?

    The purpose of the Red Stain is to create a more challenging and fair chase. Let's pretend the Red Stain doesn't exist for a second. If you're a survivor and you're being chased by a killer, and the options you have to lose the killer are vaulting, and looping, with an occasional juke-- you might as well kiss a fair chance at surviving goodbye. Looping in jungle gyms would be difficult if you couldn't see what corner the killer is coming from considering the tight corners. You would die fairly quick.

    Now with the Red Stain, you're able to predict what side a killer is going to come from, the Red Stain creates the option for a better, more challenging, chase--- as well as opening an option for various mind game strategies to improve your gameplay.

    Though I'm not sure if the Red Stain is intentionally meant to leak through walls, and bend hard around corners. So.... RIP.

    In my opinion 3rd person should be enough already. But well im just one of these killer mains who chases survivors in circles because they know where I am 100% of the time :wink:

  • DasMurich
    DasMurich Member Posts: 67
    edited June 2018
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    Master said:

    @RATT said:

    @DasMurich said:
    What exactly is the purpose of "the red stain"?

    The purpose of the Red Stain is to create a more challenging and fair chase. Let's pretend the Red Stain doesn't exist for a second. If you're a survivor and you're being chased by a killer, and the options you have to lose the killer are vaulting, and looping, with an occasional juke-- you might as well kiss a fair chance at surviving goodbye. Looping in jungle gyms would be difficult if you couldn't see what corner the killer is coming from considering the tight corners. You would die fairly quick.

    Now with the Red Stain, you're able to predict what side a killer is going to come from, the Red Stain creates the option for a better, more challenging, chase--- as well as opening an option for various mind game strategies to improve your gameplay.

    Though I'm not sure if the Red Stain is intentionally meant to leak through walls, and bend hard around corners. So.... RIP.

    In my opinion 3rd person should be enough already. But well im just one of these killer mains who chases survivors in circles because they know where I am 100% of the time :wink:

    Yeah, that's interesting. Not every one seems to find it worth while to compare the 2 big asymmetrical horrors but Friday the 13th has no "red stain" and a good counselor can kite Jason for a considerable amount of time. 

    I can't see that the red stain is necessary. The more I'm learning about Dead by Daylight I can't help but get a sense that survivors are a bit coddled. 

    Why then do the survivors not get a stain of their own when they're sneaking around? I mean it would stand to reason that if the killer produces and indicator for the benefit of a survivor, then they ought to produce one for the benefit of the killer.
    Post edited by DasMurich on
  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930
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    @DasMurich

    Why then do the survivors not get a stain of their own when they're sneaking around? I mean it would stand to reason that if the killer produces and indicator for the benefit of a survivor, then they ought to produce one for the benefit of the killer.

    Survivors l, especially SWF, can delay the killer too long, and are too strong. But the logic, of “this side has it, the other should have it too”, makes no sense, especially because it’s an asymmetrical game.

  • DasMurich
    DasMurich Member Posts: 67
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    Jack11803 said:

    @DasMurich

    Why then do the survivors not get a stain of their own when they're sneaking around? I mean it would stand to reason that if the killer produces and indicator for the benefit of a survivor, then they ought to produce one for the benefit of the killer.

    Survivors l, especially SWF, can delay the killer too long, and are too strong. But the logic, of “this side has it, the other should have it too”, makes no sense, especially because it’s an asymmetrical game.

    I know, I don't think there should be a stain at all personally. The survivor has the terror radius, chase music, their own eyeballs. They know when the killer is close, when the killer is on them, they should be required to keep an eye on them. 

    I get the asymmetrical part and no, "they have it so I should" isn't how that's supposed to work of course. You're correct on that point. 

    But how do you balance between a killer and 4 survivors that are all given yet another crutch via the red stain? It's a predictive benefit given to survivors on top of obscenely high pallet numbers and near infinite looping abilities.

    Maybe it could be a simple perk, you see it or you don't, if you want to see it then give up something else.
  • Runiver
    Runiver Member Posts: 2,095
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    Just make sure to manipulate the red stain, as killer, to mindgame.
    Just moonwalk a lot, or show it at some place and go the other way.
    Eventually stare at a wall while walking in a vision blocking loop.
    It's not that complicated once you got the hang of it.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
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    @Runiver said:
    Just make sure to manipulate the red stain, as killer, to mindgame.
    Just moonwalk a lot, or show it at some place and go the other way.
    Eventually stare at a wall while walking in a vision blocking loop.
    It's not that complicated once you got the hang of it.

    The problem for me at the time was I was inside a house on Haddonfield, main floor, with no windows on the wall. I had no terror radius as Freddy (Paintbrush + Monitor), so I could see my opponents movements outside of the house in the little alley between the house and a fence. I didn't even make it to the either door of the house to get outside though, because they were perfectly countering my movements. When asked post-game, they said they could see my red glow clear as day through the solid house wall.

    I mean, if that's intentional, okay, I guess I have to give up the informational advantage my build was supposed to provide (at the cost of my movement speed) by looking away and guess what they're doing. I will take this into consideration if I'm ever in this situation again, but I can't help but feels it's just wrong.

  • Runiver
    Runiver Member Posts: 2,095
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    @Beaburd said:

    @Runiver said:
    Just make sure to manipulate the red stain, as killer, to mindgame.
    Just moonwalk a lot, or show it at some place and go the other way.
    Eventually stare at a wall while walking in a vision blocking loop.
    It's not that complicated once you got the hang of it.

    The problem for me at the time was I was inside a house on Haddonfield, main floor, with no windows on the wall. I had no terror radius as Freddy (Paintbrush + Monitor), so I could see my opponents movements outside of the house in the little alley between the house and a fence. I didn't even make it to the either door of the house to get outside though, because they were perfectly countering my movements. When asked post-game, they said they could see my red glow clear as day through the solid house wall.

    I mean, if that's intentional, okay, I guess I have to give up the informational advantage my build was supposed to provide (at the cost of my movement speed) by looking away and guess what they're doing. I will take this into consideration if I'm ever in this situation again, but I can't help but feels it's just wrong.

    I doubt it's intentional.
    You're not supposed to be able to see the stain through walls.
    I guess I'll report that and do some KYF testing to see if I can make a vid for devs.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
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    @Runiver said:
    I doubt it's intentional.
    You're not supposed to be able to see the stain through walls.
    I guess I'll report that and do some KYF testing to see if I can make a vid for devs.

    Wow, that's going above and beyond! Appreciated.

  • Runiver
    Runiver Member Posts: 2,095
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    @Beaburd said:

    @Runiver said:
    I doubt it's intentional.
    You're not supposed to be able to see the stain through walls.
    I guess I'll report that and do some KYF testing to see if I can make a vid for devs.

    Wow, that's going above and beyond! Appreciated.

    Can you give me details about the house where it was happening ? Was it Laurie's or another one ?

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
    edited June 2018
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    @Runiver said:

    @Beaburd said:

    @Runiver said:
    I doubt it's intentional.
    You're not supposed to be able to see the stain through walls.
    I guess I'll report that and do some KYF testing to see if I can make a vid for devs.

    Wow, that's going above and beyond! Appreciated.

    Can you give me details about the house where it was happening ? Was it Laurie's or another one ?

    Oh, that's a good question. I can't recall the exact house, but I believe it was:

    1. Not a house near the corner of the map
    2. It was not a house with a garage and/or basement with a generator
    3. It had a staircase going up to the left (facing in from the front door) and no windows on the wall of the main floor to the right.
    4. The house probably had a window on the front wall, to the right of the front door

    It honestly sounds like Lauries from my description, but I can't remember if the killer's basement was there or not behind the stairs. I was facing the wall opposite to where the basement would have been if it was there after all, looking at the survivors aura just outside.

  • Runiver
    Runiver Member Posts: 2,095
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    @Beaburd said:

    @Runiver said:

    @Beaburd said:

    @Runiver said:
    I doubt it's intentional.
    You're not supposed to be able to see the stain through walls.
    I guess I'll report that and do some KYF testing to see if I can make a vid for devs.

    Wow, that's going above and beyond! Appreciated.

    Can you give me details about the house where it was happening ? Was it Laurie's or another one ?

    Oh, that's a good question. I can't recall the exact house, but I believe it was:

    1. Not a house near the corner of the map
    2. It was not a house with a garage and/or basement with a generator
    3. It had a staircase going up to the left (facing in from the front door) and no windows on the wall of the main floor to the right.
    4. The house probably had a window on the front wall, to the right of the front door

    It honestly sounds like Lauries from my description, but I can't remember if the killer's basement was there or not behind the stairs. I was facing the wall opposite to where the basement would have been if it was there after all, looking at the survivors aura just outside.

    That should be sufficient, we'll test that out a bit