Totem Counter added to UI - Please vote on link below!
Comments
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Where is the lie? Where is it, Bc I don’t see one.TheWalrus said:It's actually pretty funny, Killer mains defend NOED by saying "do the totems" then when solo que survivors complain coordinating a 5 totem cleanse in solo que is inconsistent and a totem counter should be added in HUD, killer mains say "free information is unfair" even though SWF has the info for free, which makes more people play SWF and then these same killers complain SWF is OP.
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This would be very detrimental to killers. The only way it would be MAYBE acceptable if three new secret killer offerings were added: increase number of dull totems by 1/2/3.2
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Tucking_Friggered said:@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Tucking_Friggered said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: Tucking_Friggered said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: fcc2014 said:
I voted No, It feels like too much information and puts the killer at an even more disadvantage. This would help solo survivors though with totem info that swf may share. to give this info to survivors you would need to buff totems for killers to benefit them somehow. You and many others see this as a "one step buff for solos and nothing for killers" change, but in fact with this exclusive solo survivor buff (swf won't get stronger with that information, they already share it) we are one step closer to close the gap between solo and swf and as a result we can buff killers without completely make the solo experience to a hell ride. We need to think 2 steps ahead, even if the first step sounds bad for killers, at the end killers will benefit form that.
Because I think the only reason why the devs are holding back to buff killers so they can compete with sweaty swf groups is that they don't want to hurt solos to much. Hopefully that makes sense and you change your vote to "Yes"
Except the killer buffs are a load of horse feces and will never come. That's what all the killers already know. It's all hot air and pillow talk. Buff the killers to deal with SWF first, then the solos to match the SWF, then we can talk. And by the way it will buff SWF. The 2 and 3 man SWF that wish their solo queue teammates were more useful? Yeah, they just received a buff. It's funny there is all these solo buffs being talked about yet not a single iota of information about what killer buffs are coming to compensate. Anyone have an inkling or is it something that will be pondered for years while in the interim the killers are expected to just endure? Never mind the fight that will have to be made for every crumb of compensation as the newly buffed survivors fight to keep their ez mode. Yeah, that's the ticket. What a crock and the shills are out in full force trying to help it gain traction. But 2-3 men swf groups are still not that strong compared to 4 man SWF groups. I always take reference to 4 man groups because these are the death squads who are making the killers life to a hell. My overall killer buff idea would be a second objective for survivors. For now, a second objective would work against those swf "death squads" but against solos it's heavy.We all want the second objective for survivors, I just think it's currently not practical for Solos (obviously it depends on how the second objective is). No, you just didn't think anyone was smart enough to highlight that about 2-3 mans or you yourself never considered it. The rest, whatever.
Why you bring that up then? You sound upset
No sweetie I just don't like you. So when you have an argument you can't just dismiss and you suddenly switch up to a more reasoned and polite approach I don't start liking you again.
You don't get to dismiss the 2-3 man SWF buff with some meandering about them not being 4 man when your ideas turn the odd man or even 4 individuals into a ad hoc 4 man.
Your ideas are bad and ill thought out. Simple.
Oh It's you, I wasn't even paying attention to your name lol. Don't worry, I will keep ignoring you you salty poor little kid. Next pls.
You can ignore me all you want, the community doesn't and you have ineffectual communication skills. Your arguments are so easy to punch holes into as to be amusing. So next that.
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I don't even use NOED. But a feature that basically says CLEARLY "make sure you destroy these few totems so the killer can't NOED you!". An actual counter would be a MASSIVE buff to survivors and would make using NOED pointless as there is now zero reason it should ever become active. This would "help" killers? LOL.
I consider games where as a survivor I personally took down 2 even 3 totems myself. With a counter I can even gauge which areas the others will be in if I know other survivors did them too. Even SWF teams who aren't taking the game INSANELY serious will usually not be counting the totems but taking them down as they see. I see that change just training any and all survivors to destroy all totems every time.
Not shocked to see the vote double in favor. 4v1 game...duh.
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I voted yes, but I also have my reserves about this as a solo survivor. Considering this is about solo survivors , and NOED here’s my starting opinion on it.
upside: totem counter would be great for solos
downside: a lot of times gens don’t even get done so adding another thing people think they have to do being cleansing totems on the half chance a killer had NOED would be a huge time waster for survivors.
upside: if I see nobody is cleansing totems I can cleanse them.
downside: if I see nobody is doing totems and I’m already doing all the gens by myself basically(which happens a significant amount I feel like when I’m in a group with three man swf)then I’m completely boned Bc they aren’t going to give an f about me when noed triggers Bc they already hooked swapped each other to the point of next hook death. This will happen with or without the counter to be honest.
Upside: survivors can no longer complain about getting hit with noed
downside: did I mention the huge time waster if They aren’t running hex perks?
double downside: could greatly impact other killer hex perks other than noed, which really isn’t fair Bc there will also be an increase of cases where totems do get cleansed.
eithter way I see it playing out about normal Bc survivors already ######### around and don’t do gens, I’m sure they’ll do the same with totems, Bc who cares about gens to escape when you can go head to head with a killer and someone else can do it?(a significant amount of survivor logic )
So to sum it all up it will ######### both sides in different instances. It will affect killer hex perks for mid game more than it would noed. When noed is the issue for solos so it doesn’t even really tackle the issue.So buff small game to include a counter. Not tokens, but a counter that shows how many totems are left. That way if doesn’t affect killer hexes to such a problematic degree, nor survivor gameplay. Meaning buff for small game would be the most balanced way to implement this.
Post edited by HeroLives on0 -
Which proves what I was saying...George_Soros said:This would be very detrimental to killers. The only way it would be MAYBE acceptable if three new secret killer offerings were added: increase number of dull totems by 1/2/3.
Killers don't want the totems cleansed. They want the biggest crutchperk in the game (once DS is changed) to activate.
5 totems x 14 = 70 seconds. That's not including time spent running around looking for them, or survivors being interrupted and needing to start cleansing from the beginning again. Add in all that and it's easily over a gens worth of time, easily. In fact almost every game I get interrupted at least once.
If a killer can't win with 6 gens then they have a problem. 6 gens or instadowns and speed boost at the endgame. It's win/win for killers either way.
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@The_Crusader said:
George_Soros said:This would be very detrimental to killers. The only way it would be MAYBE acceptable if three new secret killer offerings were added: increase number of dull totems by 1/2/3.
Which proves what I was saying...
Killers don't want the totems cleansed. They want the biggest crutchperk in the game (once DS is changed) to activate.
5 totems x 14 = 70 seconds. That's not including time spent running around looking for them, or survivors being interrupted and needing to start cleansing from the beginning again. Add in all that and it's easily over a gens worth of time, easily. In fact almost every game I get interrupted at least once.
If a killer can't win with 6 gens then they have a problem. 6 gens or instadowns and speed boost at the endgame. It's win/win for killers either way.
You conveniently forget one thing: while I can see generator auras, I don't have any more idea of dull totem locations than survivors (actually less than someone running Small Game). Which means a smart totem hunter survivor group can stay immersed, without touching a single gen at start and sneak around cleansing all dulls. Then the game begins.
The Hallowed Blight event clearly showed this: those Cankers were not shown to killer. Stealthy survivors often managed to gather all the nectar they could without any contact with the killer. Once they were done, the game started.Obviuosly there are detection perks and killer powers which can help finding even the most immersed survivors. But your most important clue as to where to find survivors is generators.
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@The_Crusader said:
Which proves what I was saying...Killers don't want the totems cleansed. They want the biggest crutchperk in the game (once DS is changed) to activate.
5 totems x 14 = 70 seconds. That's not including time spent running around looking for them, or survivors being interrupted and needing to start cleansing from the beginning again. Add in all that and it's easily over a gens worth of time, easily. In fact almost every game I get interrupted at least once.
If a killer can't win with 6 gens then they have a problem. 6 gens or instadowns and speed boost at the endgame. It's win/win for killers either way.
It's only 70 seconds if there's a single survivor breaking every single totem, and it's only roughly equivalent to 6 generators if the other three do nothing while that one is breaking totems.
Now here's the funny part: 5 generators being repaired by 3 survivors take the same amount of time as 5 generators being repaired by 4 survivors, assuming only one is allowed per generator. That's because if there are 5 generators and 3 survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds). If there are five generators and four survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds).
So even in your scenario of only one survivor breaking all the totems, disregarding the absurd notion that the other three are just sitting on their asses doing nothing for the full 70 seconds, total generator repair time is unchanged. The minimum amount of time required for the trial to end is unchanged. Because actions can occur simultaneously, which is something people who say breaking every totem is like adding an entire generator's worth of repair time always "forget".
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@Orion said:
It's only 70 seconds if there's a single survivor breaking every single totem, and it's only roughly equivalent to 6 generators if the other three do nothing while that one is breaking totems.
Now here's the funny part: 5 generators being repaired by 3 survivors take the same amount of time as 5 generators being repaired by 4 survivors, assuming only one is allowed per generator. That's because if there are 6 generators and 3 survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds). If there are five generators and four survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds).
So even in your scenario of only one survivor breaking all the totems, disregarding the absurd notion that the other three are just sitting on their asses doing nothing for the full 70 seconds, total generator repair time is unchanged. The minimum amount of time required for the trial to end is unchanged. Because actions can occur simultaneously, which is something people who say breaking every totem is like adding an entire generator's worth of repair time always "forget".
Since 1 on the totems, the other 3 are on the generators, I suppose the killer is AFK?
1 on the totems, 2 are on the generators, killer earned at least 1 more generator assuming that the totem cleanser is teleporting to the totems and know every single location.0 -
@Delfador said:
@Orion said:
It's only 70 seconds if there's a single survivor breaking every single totem, and it's only roughly equivalent to 6 generators if the other three do nothing while that one is breaking totems.
Now here's the funny part: 5 generators being repaired by 3 survivors take the same amount of time as 5 generators being repaired by 4 survivors, assuming only one is allowed per generator. That's because if there are 6 generators and 3 survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds). If there are five generators and four survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds).
So even in your scenario of only one survivor breaking all the totems, disregarding the absurd notion that the other three are just sitting on their asses doing nothing for the full 70 seconds, total generator repair time is unchanged. The minimum amount of time required for the trial to end is unchanged. Because actions can occur simultaneously, which is something people who say breaking every totem is like adding an entire generator's worth of repair time always "forget".
Since 1 on the totems, the other 3 are on the generators, I suppose the killer is AFK?
1 on the totems, 2 are on the generators, killer earned at least 1 more generator assuming that the totem cleanser is teleporting to the totems and know every single location.The other guy assumed the other 3 survivors were AFK, I just made the same assumption for the killer.
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Yes, 3 survivors can cleanse totems faster than 1...but 3 survivors can do a generator faster than 1.Orion said:@The_Crusader said:
Which proves what I was saying...Killers don't want the totems cleansed. They want the biggest crutchperk in the game (once DS is changed) to activate.
5 totems x 14 = 70 seconds. That's not including time spent running around looking for them, or survivors being interrupted and needing to start cleansing from the beginning again. Add in all that and it's easily over a gens worth of time, easily. In fact almost every game I get interrupted at least once.
If a killer can't win with 6 gens then they have a problem. 6 gens or instadowns and speed boost at the endgame. It's win/win for killers either way.
It's only 70 seconds if there's a single survivor breaking every single totem, and it's only roughly equivalent to 6 generators if the other three do nothing while that one is breaking totems.
Now here's the funny part: 5 generators being repaired by 3 survivors take the same amount of time as 5 generators being repaired by 4 survivors, assuming only one is allowed per generator. That's because if there are 5 generators and 3 survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds). If there are five generators and four survivors, they can repair three generators simultaneously (+80 seconds) and then two again (+80 seconds).
So even in your scenario of only one survivor breaking all the totems, disregarding the absurd notion that the other three are just sitting on their asses doing nothing for the full 70 seconds, total generator repair time is unchanged. The minimum amount of time required for the trial to end is unchanged. Because actions can occur simultaneously, which is something people who say breaking every totem is like adding an entire generator's worth of repair time always "forget".
The act of cleansing totems still takes around the same time as a generator and if survivors are doing totems then try lose that time on generators.
70 seconds MINIMUM. That's not including time spent searching but most inportantly, time lost due to interruptions since progress resets.0 -
@Orion said:
The other guy assumed the other 3 survivors were AFK, I just made the same assumption for the killer.
No I don't think he assumed the other 3 survivors were AFK.
We are talking about time efficiency. Everybody can work on different totems but it doesn't shorten 70 seconds. Other survivors could just do generators when a survivor dedicates his time to cleanse the totems.
The only advantage survivors would have is not travelling the whole map but it still doesn't shorten 70 seconds since that 70 seconds purely comes from totem cleansing.
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@The_Crusader @Delfador Let's do the math in terms of how time actually works.
Here's the scenario:
- For the sake of argument assume the killer is always chasing one survivor, so there's a total of three active survivors at any given time.
- Since travel time from totem to totem should be roughly the same as travel time from generator to generator, it's an irrelevant constant when comparing how long it'll take to repair all generators to how long it'll take to break all the totems. Thus, disregard it.
- Assume 80 seconds to repair a generator.
- Assume 14 seconds to break a totem.
- Assume only one survivor works on any one generator (which is not so much an assumption as it is how the game usually progresses under normal circumstances).
- Assume repairs are occurring simultaneously (see above).
If all three survivors are repairing generators, they can repair three generators in 80 seconds. Here's where the paths diverge:
1. If one of them chooses to break totems it will take 70 seconds total. Meanwhile, the other two repair the last two generators, which will take them 80 seconds. Total time? 160 seconds.
2. If one of them chooses to sit on their ass, the other two will repair the last two generators in 80 seconds. Total time? Still 160 seconds.Conclusion: Breaking totems has no impact on the minimum amount of time required to repair all the generators.
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This change must be treated as a part of a wider reform to fill SWF-Killer-Solos gaps, otherwise imbalance will persist: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/46538/definitive-solution-to-bridge-the-swf-killer-solos-gaps
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Would not an audio clue for dull totems serve as the same mechanical solution without a braindead counter? When a Hex breaks the entire map can hear the thunder. What if the dull totems would get a distinctively different sound effect? Like a loud branch cracking.
It still requires some skill and brainpower to remember how many things broke throughout the game.0 -
I am against this idea. As a solo survivor, I am cleansing every totem I see. I don't need this buff at all and it also removes the "immersion", because how can my Feng know that there are 5 totems left even though she saw only 1?
Or add it to the Small Game.0 -
Yeah NOW you don't need that change, but wait till the second objective drops and you would wish that you would have voted for yes. Because solos need to be even more efficient and there would be 100% no time for every solo to check if all 5 got cleansed.popoles said:I am against this idea. As a solo survivor, I am cleansing every totem I see. I don't need this buff at all and it also removes the "immersion", because how can my Feng know that there are 5 totems left even though she saw only 1?
Or add it to the Small Game.
But whatever, if you don't care to close the gap it's up to you. I want to balance that mess. And the UI counter is a perfect step without buffing swf.
And by that logic, how does your feng know there is 5 gens to do without seeing them?0 -
Close to 200 votes and 62% agree that it should be added to the UI. While we are at it, can we get a sacrifice tracker on the UI as well? Like a simple red slash near the survivors name for each sacrifice stage would be nice.
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@PureHostility said:
I'm up for counter to remaining totems on the map, but not on the HUD / UI / Interface in general.
Instead, I had this idea few weeks ago where it would tell you number of totems when you look at one of the existing / cleansed ones, a small hovering embers, sparks, fireflies that are only visible when extremely close to one, each such small spot of light would tell you how many are left.This way it doesn't pollute the hud with pointless counters and adds more things to "look for" in the game world.
I would be okay with this too. But the problem with it is that it isn't intuitive. New players wouldn't figure this out at all. Meaning it would be one of those things that only a small percentage of players know about. Maybe if they added the info to one of the "clues" in the loading screen.
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For the killer?Dreamnomad said:Close to 200 votes and 62% agree that it should be added to the UI. While we are at it, can we get a sacrifice tracker on the UI as well? Like a simple red slash near the survivors name for each sacrifice stage would be nice.
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You shouldn't worry about new players.
One of the things you are expecting from new players is to learn new things.
You don't need to hold their hands, otherwise they either get spoiled ("survivor main" meme) or just leave due to lack of game depth.
Don't underestimate abilities of players and their intelligence, as just blatant silver plating is an offense to anyone with a brain.
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Votes so far, great participation from both sides, some more constructive than others. But involving yourself in this discussion is great no matter what is said
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