A true Dying light rework
I believe everyone can agree with me (Especially with the current d strike rework coming through) that dying light is in a weird place so i'd just like to leave this suggestion here.
Dying light :
You become obsessed with one Survivor.
Your Obsession's altruistic action speed is increased by 50 %
Every time the Obsession is struck, the killer receives a token and every other Survivor gets a penalty of 5% altruistic action speed to a maximum of 25% (5 Total tokens)
After those tokens are gained, If the Obsession is hooked or dies. all remaining survivors gain a 25% action speed penalty towards completing generators. (6th token granted upon death/hook, and is independent of the other token counts. does not show up on indicator, but does require gaining the other 5 tokens first. only the 6th token can be removed.)
If the Obsession swaps to an alive survivor from a dead survivor, Or the current Obsession is unhooked, the 25% generator action speed penalty is removed. (and thusly the 6th token is removed)
My version of dying light relies on the current obsession either being hooked or dead, however the killer cannot gain the 25% action penalty until the killer has at least hit the obsession 5 times. the 6th token is the only token that is removable from the killers possession and is independent of the other tokens, being gained always upon a hook. a survivor will always have the bonus of 50% action speed, which makes up for the lack of teammate altruistic action speed. it also encourages survivors to want to unhook their obsession friend in order to stop the 25% penalty on gens.
Dying light would no longer effect Sabotage, end gates, chest speed, etc. only altruistic action speed, until the Obsession is on their last hook, where it would then begin affecting gen speeds. if the obsession then switches later in the match after the original obsession is dead, or before, the killer then still has an opportunity to get the gen speed debuff.
Edit: this would also make it act with synergy towards the shapes other obsession perks, specifically PWYF. in this way, dropping the chase with an obsession, means that you can potentially gain more tokens (up to the main 5) before hooking them, meaning you don't have to tunnel them to get dying lights effect. it also acts somewhat positively with STBFL in that hitting your obsession will gain you another form of token, and isn't so much of a detriment towards the player. If the killer wants to tunnel to activate dying light, sure. but it won't activate until they've "punished" (hit) their obsession enough.
However perhaps if the killer kills the obsession early (via killing themselves on hook, or through mori) dying light gains full tokens immediately? unsure if that would be too powerful but still.
Edit 2: if the debuff comes in at a later stage after the obsession is dead (And doesn't gain all tokens if the obsession dies) then a 50% reduction to speed seems fair. (ie you wouldn't be able to mori them to gain its effect, they'd still have to live long enough for you to get the initial tokens, but when they do finally die you gain a huge debuff to gen speed)
Edit 3: This wouldn't make the killer want to camp. because then if he camped the survivor till death hook, he wouldn't be able to get his gen speed debuff. (2 hits to initially down a survivor, then potentially two more hits if your camping them on hook... that adds up to 4 tokens, and you require 5 tokens to get the 6th token. you require having hit the survivor 5 times before you get the gen speed debuff.)
Comments
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Why? I mean... I could just equip Sloppy Butcher for that 25% healing debuff. And no, devs wont change the time it takes someone to be unhooked if you think of it as an altruistic action.
It would also benefit camping, something nobody wants.0 -
@tt_ivi_99 said:
Why? I mean... I could just equip Sloppy Butcher for that 25% healing debuff. And no, devs wont change the time it takes someone to be unhooked if you think of it as an altruistic action.
It would also benefit camping, something nobody wants.yes they could, but dying light is concurrently a gen perk. this version of it actually discourages tunneling, (if you don't count my edit) because if the obsession dies early before being hit enough, the killer won't gain the gen debuff. it also allows the killer to regain the gen debuff, if there is a new obsession. and if the obsession swaps midgame, it still allows the killer to get the debuff without having to have killed anyone. it promotes Killing the obsession (which is what an obsession perk should do) but not camping them.. no they need to live long enough so the killer can get their debuff. let them be saved, and you get your 25% debuff to gens. besides. the original version of Dying light worked best by having the killer mori the survivor early in order to ensure the debuff. this version makes the debuff come in at a later stage, and be reactivateable
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I'm not opposed to re-working Dying Light, but this doesn't seem like it solves the problem of Dying Light strongly promoting tunneling.
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I dont think you understand the problem here.Maelstrom10 said:@tt_ivi_99 said:
Why? I mean... I could just equip Sloppy Butcher for that 25% healing debuff. And no, devs wont change the time it takes someone to be unhooked if you think of it as an altruistic action.
It would also benefit camping, something nobody wants.yes they could, but dying light is concurrently a gen perk. this version of it actually discourages tunneling, (if you don't count my edit) because if the obsession dies early before being hit enough, the killer won't gain the gen debuff. it also allows the killer to regain the gen debuff, if there is a new obsession. and if the obsession swaps midgame, it still allows the killer to get the debuff without having to have killed anyone. it promotes Killing the obsession (which is what an obsession perk should do) but not camping them.. no they need to live long enough so the killer can get their debuff. let them be saved, and you get your 25% debuff to gens. besides. the original version of Dying light worked best by having the killer mori the survivor early in order to ensure the debuff. this version makes the debuff come in at a later stage, and be reactivateable
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If the killer can apply a 25% debuff to gen speed when the obsession is hooked why would he leave the hook? Let survivors come for the save, they wont be able to finish all gens before the obsession dies, which is the only counter to camping. It's a win-win situation for campers...
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@TAG said:
I'm not opposed to re-working Dying Light, but this doesn't seem like it solves the problem of Dying Light strongly promoting tunneling.In my opinion (keep in mind this is just my opinion) the tunneling portion of dying light isn't a problem. a killer wishing to kill their obsession should be normal, and while yes juggling multiple survivors around works for some obsession perk ideas (ie PWYF, STBFL) Others do promote tunneling and should (Remember me is a good example of this, especially since it doesn't require your obsession being dead, but does require you striking them.) Rancor is another good example of an obsession perk which works within the idea of what an obsession is. (Rancor does promote tunneling at endgame after all)
My version of dying light simply promotes you wanting to target a player, which would be chosen at random unless someone brings in an obsession perk.. at which case if your actively choosing to be the obsession you should expect the killer to well... treat you as their obsession?0 -
@tt_ivi_99 said:
Maelstrom10 said:@tt_ivi_99 said:
Why? I mean... I could just equip Sloppy Butcher for that 25% healing debuff. And no, devs wont change the time it takes someone to be unhooked if you think of it as an altruistic action.
It would also benefit camping, something nobody wants.
yes they could, but dying light is concurrently a gen perk. this version of it actually discourages tunneling, (if you don't count my edit) because if the obsession dies early before being hit enough, the killer won't gain the gen debuff. it also allows the killer to regain the gen debuff, if there is a new obsession. and if the obsession swaps midgame, it still allows the killer to get the debuff without having to have killed anyone. it promotes Killing the obsession (which is what an obsession perk should do) but not camping them.. no they need to live long enough so the killer can get their debuff. let them be saved, and you get your 25% debuff to gens. besides. the original version of Dying light worked best by having the killer mori the survivor early in order to ensure the debuff. this version makes the debuff come in at a later stage, and be reactivateable
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I dont think you understand the problem here.
If the killer can apply a 25% debuff to gen speed when the obsession is hooked why would he leave the hook? Let survivors come for the save, they wont be able to finish all gens before the obsession dies, which is the only counter to camping. It's a win-win situation for campers...The killer would only be able to apply that gen speed debuff, after they had gotten enough hits on the survivor. ie they must get 5 hits on an obsession before the gen speed debuff kicks in.
that means the survivor must either survive until death hook, or not be tunneled twice off hook. (2 hits to intitally hook the survivor, then 2 two to rehook them if your camping them which adds up to 4... meaning you won't get the bonus if they can't heal up)0 -
I think the difference between Dying Light and Remember Me is that Remember Me doesn't necessarily want your Obsession dead ASAP whereas Dying Light (both the current version and your propsed idea) does. Same with Rancor; it doesn't promote the idea of completely hating someone out of the game as soon as possible (it does at the end, but at least they got to play most of the game).Maelstrom10 said:@TAG said:
I'm not opposed to re-working Dying Light, but this doesn't seem like it solves the problem of Dying Light strongly promoting tunneling.In my opinion (keep in mind this is just my opinion) the tunneling portion of dying light isn't a problem. a killer wishing to kill their obsession should be normal, and while yes juggling multiple survivors around works for some obsession perk ideas (ie PWYF, STBFL) Others do promote tunneling and should (Remember me is a good example of this, especially since it doesn't drequire your obsession being dead, but does require you striking them.) Rancor is another good example of an obsession perk which works within the idea of what an obsession is. (Rancor does promote tunneling at endgame after all)
My version of dying light simply promotes you wanting to target a player, which would be chosen at random unless someone brings in an obsession perk.. at which case if your actively choosing to be the obsession you should expect the killer to well... treat you as their obsession?0 -
Play Legion, hit my obsession with regular M1, get the remaining 4 stacks with my power and that's game over for survivors.Maelstrom10 said:@tt_ivi_99 said:
Maelstrom10 said:@tt_ivi_99 said:
Why? I mean... I could just equip Sloppy Butcher for that 25% healing debuff. And no, devs wont change the time it takes someone to be unhooked if you think of it as an altruistic action.
It would also benefit camping, something nobody wants.
yes they could, but dying light is concurrently a gen perk. this version of it actually discourages tunneling, (if you don't count my edit) because if the obsession dies early before being hit enough, the killer won't gain the gen debuff. it also allows the killer to regain the gen debuff, if there is a new obsession. and if the obsession swaps midgame, it still allows the killer to get the debuff without having to have killed anyone. it promotes Killing the obsession (which is what an obsession perk should do) but not camping them.. no they need to live long enough so the killer can get their debuff. let them be saved, and you get your 25% debuff to gens. besides. the original version of Dying light worked best by having the killer mori the survivor early in order to ensure the debuff. this version makes the debuff come in at a later stage, and be reactivateable
.
I dont think you understand the problem here.
If the killer can apply a 25% debuff to gen speed when the obsession is hooked why would he leave the hook? Let survivors come for the save, they wont be able to finish all gens before the obsession dies, which is the only counter to camping. It's a win-win situation for campers...The killer would only be able to apply that gen speed debuff, after they had gotten enough hits on the survivor. ie they must get 5 hits on an obsession before the gen speed debuff kicks in.
that means the survivor must either survive until death hook, or not be tunneled twice off hook. (2 hits to intitally hook the survivor, then 2 two to rehook them if your camping them which adds up to 4... meaning you won't get the bonus if they can't heal up)
Get first two hits with any killer, hook obsession, tunnel and get 2 more hits, leave obsession on the ground until someone picks her up and come back to get the final stack, then camp until obsession dies.
Dying Light should give extra x% of debuff gen speed to all survivors each time a new survivor is hooked, just like BBQ works.0 -
@TAG said:
I think the difference between Dying Light and Remember Me is that Remember Me doesn't necessarily want your Obsession dead ASAP whereas Dying Light (both the current version and your propsed idea) does. Same with Rancor; it doesn't promote the idea of completely hating someone out of the game as soon as possible (it does at the end, but at least they got to play most of the game).Very true, though i would like to point out that with my version of dying light the obsession doesn't necessarily need to be dead (its just highly encouraged.) so long as you get 5 hits and let them go off to heal, you can still get that generator debuff when you next hook them. Remember me relies on getting 6 hits (the exact amount to down a healed survivor 3 times and hook them to death) and has no effect on that survivor if their still alive, promoting them being tunneled and dying before the rest.
I'd go as far as to agree with you on the tunneling bit, so long as the killer has 5 tokens.. if the killer gains there 5 initial tokens then it'll basically become tunnel fest yeah, they'll want their obsession dead/on hook. but up until that point it promotes leaving them alive until well, the right moment. but then you could pretty much just say after 5 tokens it becomes the original dying light where you want to tunnel them to death (which at the moment starts at the beggining of the game and then you mori them to get the full effect yada yada)0 -
@tt_ivi_99 said:
Play Legion, hit my obsession with regular M1, get the remaining 4 stacks with my power and that's game over for survivors.
Get first two hits with any killer, hook obsession, tunnel and get 2 more hits, leave obsession on the ground until someone picks her up and come back to get the final stack, then camp until obsession dies.
Dying Light should give extra x% of debuff gen speed to all survivors each time a new survivor is hooked, just like BBQ works.
Easy solution, don't make it work with the killers power (or at the very least the legions power)
And even still, my dying light i'd like to say is better then the current one, where you tunnel the survivor, camp until there dead or mori them off first hook. with this one it requires management and letting them go.
People already camp with dying light, im just giving them a reason not to do so till they've got what they need.
sure you could tunnel twice and then leave them on the ground, but that still gives them an opportunity to get back up. it leaves them in the game. (rather then being tunneled and killed immediately)
Try to think about it with the new Decisive strike coming, do you really think people are not going to be running that? with the obsession likely changing often, the killer won't need to tunnel either. and if the killer chooses to camp in the end despite everything? solution = gen rush.0
