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Should a killer be responsible for making sure he doesn't tunnel? (for survivor mains)
I'm just curious how the survivor community feels about this. If I hook you, and your teammates run up real quick and unhook you before I've even moved on to patrol the next generator, do I owe you the courtesy of letting you go? If you are the worst survivor on your team and you let BBQ pin point your location, do I owe you the courtesy of moving to another survivor because I don't want to be a tunneler?
Because whenever I play survivor, I don't blame the killer for these situations. I blame myself for being bad or my teammates for forcing the tunnel. My definition of tunneling is going for the same survivor until they are dead. Either because of a perk like Dying Light or they made you mad somehow. This is tunneling. However, I know in PvP games, players can get salty and feel irrational. Is this just salt or is this just how survivors genuinely feel? Like a killer owes you some sort of courtesy to not attack you because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I'm genuinely interested in survivor main's perspective on this.
Comments
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If players are polite I don't tunnel, camp etc. Even if they all could escape.
If they are toxic everything goes.
As a survivor, If killer tunnels me for no reason after unhooks, I'm going to use every dirty trick possible to make him miserable.
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I never understood why the killer is being blamed for a survivor missplay.
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But what is tunneling? Because I feel like there's a huge misconception in the community on what tunneling is.
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For me tunneling is when I'm camped or soft camped and killer always goes after me when someone unhooks me, not giving me a chance to do anything until I die.
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My view is if someone on my "team" rushes to get me off the hook then it really isn't my fault, so I hate when the killer tunnels me just because my team mate decided to farm me for points. I know some survivors have asked for a way to "kick" other survivors away if they are about to get tunneled.
When I play killer I hunt whoever I run across, but if I see someone get pulled off the hook I am at least nice enough to go after the savior and not the victim in that case.
If I am seen via Bitter Murmer, BBQ, etc then I am fair game.
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I think you mean, Anything Goes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aeQ3DmKU7A
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Perfect example. It's not your fault at all, it's the knucklehead that pulled you off. So my question is, why is the killer blamed? Why isn't the survivor blamed for unhooking without borrowed time?
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Just smack whoever got saved and then pursue the other guy. The other guy doesn't get his full reward and gets an emblem punishment and the unhook victim still buys you time while a buddy runs over to heal.
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Yes, sorry.
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It's only toxic if it is to the exclusion of strategy. Any action taken with the intent to win is never toxic. It does not matter what the action is.
If someone has a reason to think that Tbagging will provide a strategic advantage then it is fair game to do so. Flashlight squads? Fair game.
Exception is actual cheating. I wouldn't call it toxic but it wouldn't be fair game.
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I'll usually go after the rescuer as killer. I dislike being chased down immediately after the unhook. So I prefer not to do it to someone else. Yes I'm trying to win, but I want them to get to play the game as well. That said if you tbag me or are just generally rude I'll hunt you down with no remorse.
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But logically speaking, why should a killer do this? Why does the killer owe anyone this? Why would your teammate put you in the situation in the first place and why is up to the killer to make up for a bad teammate's mistake?
My point is, it's not the killer's responsibility to make up for survivors' mistakes so why isn't the blame being directed towards the survivor who did it? Instead we say, "gg killer, thanks for tunneling" instead of, "gg, btw thanks for forcing a tunnel Meg".
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There are occasions where tunneling is just logical and not the Killers fault.
Two examples:
As described before, unhooking while the Killer is nearby. It is just dumb and nobody can blame the Killer for coming back.
And also: When you unhook someone and hear the Killer approaching, dont hide. If the healthy Survivor is hiding, the Killer might only see the injured person and will go after them. They can still do so if both players are visible, but if the Killer does not have a chance to go after someone else, there is nothing he could do about that.
Had it yesterday that I was on my second hook, got unhooked and the person who unhooked me immediatly went into the next hiding spot. He was not hooked once, but let the injured person who was hooked twice die...
Though, if a Killer is abandoning a chase or not going after an injured person to get the other person (even if healthy), yeah, this would be tunneling for me. If I unhook someone, heal them fast with We Will Make It an take a hit when the Killer is approaching and he is ignoring me to go for the unhooked person... I consider this tunneling.
EDIT: But overall, I would say that Survivors have ways to avoid tunneling and are not using them...
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I do not care if a killer camps, tunnels, slugs, attacks multiple people healing or cleansing in one spot, place a bunch of traps in one area that survivors want to get to, hit survivors stuck on something. I do not care if survivors teabag, click flashlights, flashlight save all the time, successfully bait the killer into swinging instead of grabbing, swf, use infinite loops, throw off a bunch of ques to distract the killer, urban evasion and hide everywhere (its legit play although irritating as a teammate of that person), etc
All of those are legit strategies and the killer is there to kill, survivors are there to survive.
I care about people sadistically holding the game hostage. Let us get through the game, win some and lose some, and move on. I do not want to be stuck in a game because some showoff(s) wanna have an lol party for longer than the game needs to last. If you're using a lot of time to get extra points like breaking palettes, cleansing dulls, healing. It's ok. But don't try to exhibit toxic behavior just to make yourself feel good then get mad if someone DCs and you lose points.
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I'm not sure what I do is considered "Tunneling" but I don't camp a hook once i have a survivor hooked, i leave the area by a decent distance and patrol a few close by gens but check back regularly to see if someone is coming to their rescue.
9 times out of 10 though the freshly unhooked survivor is the one who stays within my sights due to the unhooker splitting off to the left or right and out of my sight and I'm not going to abandon a chase just because the freshly unhooked survivor wasn't skilled enough to lose me like their savior did.
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I believe tunneling is okay in the circumstance that:
- They are your obsession
- They are baiting you and want to be chased (can be ignored)
I believe camping is okay in the circumstance that:
- You have whispers and can clearly hear another survivor is already nearby, so long as you're searching for them in that area.
- You're a killer like the Wraith who is built on a "hide and attack"/"bait and attack" play style, which SHOULDN'T be paired with tunneling.
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No, it's up to teammates to make smart safe saves and then its your responsibility to stay out of sight. I'm not expecting the killer to pretend they didn't see me cause I picked a bad hiding spot or ran in the wrong direction. Killer's only responsibility is to kill the person in front of them.
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Honestly aint the killers job to fix an allies mistake. You might tell a killer not to tunnel but when the player who unhooks runs to an obnoxious loop like crotus prenn with ds while your on the outside. Telling the killer go find someone else or chase the better positioned game losing rescuer is way out of line.
The problem with survivours who complain about tunneling is they dont hold the unhooker accountable. Yes some killers force bad situations but many of those situations must be built up by survivours consistently messing up. Telling a killer that it his obligation to give you a chance is ridiclous.
Keep a list of survivours who are consistently making bad saves and check your lobbies so you arent playing with them is my advice. If your not comfortable having an ally holding your life in their hands your playing the wrong role.
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If an unhook happens in front of me, depending on how the match is going, I will down the unhooked survivor to deny the rescuer the safe unhook points. I will then chase the rescuer and leave the freshly unhooked player on the ground and won't go back for them.
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If the opportunity is there ( I hit the person they run to hook I get to down them) then I’ll gladly trade lives just another hook for me, however as survivor I have no problem with how the killer plays.
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Not a survivor main or a killer main but to me if I was unhooked and the killer was near I’d expect them to take advantage of my teammates dumb mistake! If I’m being chased or caught by the killer I make sure to take him to the other side of the map I’d NEVER unhook a teammate while the killer is near
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It's not your opponent's responsibility to compensate for your mistakes. If you play poorly, your opponent capitalizes on it. That's how PvP works.
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It comes to state of the round. 5 gens and Ruin still up or exit gates open? I still feel the unhooker is responsible what happens after the unhook.
When I unhook and Im not on deathook and killer needs 2 hits to down I always so my best to protect the unhooked survivor by tanking hit.
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It depends on where you are in the game. At 5 gens with Ruin, then I would say yes. I would personally down them, and then go after someone else.
At 1/2 gens left, feelsbadman, just tunnel them, and put them right back on the hook.
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I usually do call out the survivor afterwards. But while it's not the killers fault it's also not the fault of the hooked person, unless they are SWF then they really should be deafening their buddies on comm. I can understand why killers go after them because they are one hit so the easiest to rehook and keep up pressure. But I find that the reason the survivors unhook unsafely is because they want the extra points and usually they know the killer won't be on them. Personally when I play killer, admittedly rarely, I go after the unhooker. But I like the solution someone else posted, smacking the unhooked person removing the safe rescue points, then going after the unhooker. But I never blame the killer in this situation.
Is it tunneling? Not really. To me tunneling is more when the killer actually leaves the hook and even if they see someone else or were in a chase returns to exclusively go after the unhooked survivor. This only makes sense if they are your Dying Light obsession or something, otherwise if you've one survivor unhooking and healing the hooked survivor and you are chasing one that is 3 off gens. I've been tunneled before but it's not that often tbh.
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Camp. Tunnel. Kill. Its your job. Do whatever you can to win. If you leave my items alone, I'll leave your camping and tunneling alone. Fair trade? Lol.
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As a killer (I main survivor) if someone unhook right in front of me I go for the injured guy.
!, it's toxic.
2, It takes points off the dude who obviously did an unsafe hook.
3, it gets rid of borrowed time if it is there.
I wont hook this survivor if I get them unless it was a bit of a chase or I need the kill to gain momentum. If a killer does the same thing I wont flame them. I do pass along my thoughts to the survivor haha
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It's the developers job to entice Killers to play in a way that is both fun and effective. If they don't make mechanics or perks that induce proper behaviour, then its not the killers fault that they just want a kill. Sure it sucks, but aint nothing we can do
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u can win without being a dick. crazy I know
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when did they start paying us? its not your job its a game. u don't have to be an ######### to win
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And you can win without having your opponents compensate for your lack of skill.
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Touché.
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weird to bring in skill on a topic about tunneling
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gen rush is the result of little to no pressure being put out by the killer. tell me what else u want survivors to do if u dont want them to loop and do gens? instantly throw down pallets until you're all out by the 2nd gen? or play like an immersed player? yeah thats some thrilling gameplay
there are some dumb infinites in this game I can agree that they need to be fixed, and if you're tunneling people who run straight to them every time you're setting yourself up for failure.
I can literally take your same statement and flip it by saying "you guys have ruin, slugging, and hillbilly yet killers wonder why we run infinites" try to understand how completely ridiculous that is (point is you took something reasonable and necessary and compared it to something unnecessary, and bs. which is why I'm confused by @Orion reply to me, speaking of "lack of skill," even tho if you're tunneling. is that not to make up for ur own lack or skill? considering I've seen better players win without it, I'd say so.
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@artist I only tunnel if the survivors are idiots who run to me after being unhooked, in fact I usually run devour hope. But my point is that sometimes the survivors force the killer to play like a (I’ll just censor this). And you can’t always just counter gen rush since you still have to chase. And hillbilly shouldn’t be the only “viable” killer at r1, that is purely bad game design.
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for one rank isnt important, and he is most definitely not the only top tier killer (hag, spirit, etc) you have to learn how to pressure survivors off gens (slugging and continuing to chase, snowballing with your power, etc) trust me I get that some killers are weak, but so are the majority of survivor players. I play pig and rarely get games where I don't at least 3k.
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@artist something I’ve noticed is that Ned kits are honestly scarier than toolboxes, especially if they have self-care, I’m pretty good at pressure with the pig and legion, sometimes billy. Most survivors I find are usually pretty good at their job even when I’m survivor, guess that’s my experience. I’ve always been better at surviving than killing, but if the majority of us gorum users who play both sides agree that gen rush is a problem then I think we have a problem.
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I let them go only because if someone makes a save in your face there is a 98% chance they have Borrowed Time. I'll take the hook on the guy that saved you and use BBQ to find you.
Sometimes though I can only find the injured guy so I have to tunnel.
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just please ffs don't slug me. i don't run ds. just kill me so i can start another game #SoloPlayerProblems.
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While I appreciate it when killers show mercy and don't immediately go after the injured person, I don't expect it. They're trying to snowball the match in their favor and part of the killer's job is to punish survivor's mistakes. When I play killer, I'll often leave the person on the floor (or will hook them if I've only hooked them once, depending on my mood). As for accidentally finding someone again thanks to BBQ, that's all based on luck. I'll honestly forget who I just chased, so I wouldn't fault the killer for that. Usually when people use Dying Light, they use a green Mori, too, so that they can quick get the Obsession out of the game. If they're relying on tunneling, they'll likely burn through quite a few gens before they can finish off the obsession. Some people get really salty and fussy over nothing, though.
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You're a killer like the Wraith who is built on a "hide and attack"/"bait and attack" play style, which SHOULDN'T be paired with tunneling.
I don't camp when I play Wraith.
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I think in any game there is a responsibility on both sides for both the balance of success and fun, and people tend to lean too strongly towards one side or the other.
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@xmenfanatic I like leaning towards the fun side. xD
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In the case of not finding the unhooker that's pretty understandable from a kilers standpoint and yes it sucks for the unhooked person. It especially sucks when the unhooker basically is farming WGLF stacks off you and SB's away.
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You can't win a chase. That's why you never stop being chased. I think it's weirder to complain about the killer taking advantage of your lack of skill.
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Because I think a survivor who can't win a chase is, by definition, bad at winning the chase? I mean, if using logic makes me a killer main, then by all means, label me as such. But if you want to use proper terminology, I play both sides.
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You should always expect players to play optimally. If that means camping and tunneling then so be it. If it doesn't then great. You don't play the way that takes the most skill if it has a lower reward and you shouldn't expect people to.
If tunneling is an easy win then you should expect good killers to do it every time and plan accordingly. If this is a problem then the fault is either with the survivors for letting it work or on the devs for designing a game with that kind of a dominant strategy (which one depends on why the strategy works).
The only time you should be blaming the Killers for something is when a strategy that DOESN'T WORK is becoming common.
This applies to survivor strategy's too of course. Looping and Gen Rush are terms because doing them causes problems for the game. However they are also very obviously optimal play for the survivors, thus it is either the Killer's fault for not exploiting any counter play that exists or the Dev's fault for not including enough counterplay as an option in the first place.
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tell me how to win a chase immediately off hook when the next pallet is 20m away and the killer is 10m away. if a killer wants u dead he will get u dead. this isn't 2016 lol
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