The real problem with NOED + rework ideas
Many survivors seem to think that the problem with NOED is how it affects gameplay at the endgame. While it's annoying af and unfair, I can't help but side with the killers on this one, since all you have to do is cleanse the damn totem.
However we all know that more than half the time, that never happens and the killers ends up killing a few survivors, if not all of them.
I think there is a balance issue here, but a minor one, however there is a much bigger issue with NOED that no one talks about and needs to be addressed.
NOED helps noob killers rank up too fast. We've all seen it. Killers that cannot catch anyone during the match, get 1-2 kills at the endgame thanks to NOED. I believe that killers need to practice against survivors their own level, because it's the only way they will learn and get better at the game. You learn by failing over and over again until you get it right, it's common knowledge. Currently they rank up, only to face even higher skilled survivors that make their games even more miserable, until they reach a place where not even NOED can help them. This creates a huge issue, since those killers will have a skewed perception of the game's balance and it leads to them overflooding the forums with unrealistic demands for balance changes, putting immense pressure on the devs. Sometimes the devs give in to those demands and break the game even more. It needs to stop.
At the moment, in my opinion, because of these unrealistic demands, the game is completely out of balance for solo survivors. They tried to improve the killer experience by constantly buffing them and giving them strong perks, so they have an easier time against swf. The result is swf is still strong and the solo survivors experience is ruined.
I have a few rework ideas for NOED that may give noob killers a harder time taking advantage of it:
- NOED is no longer a HEX perk. Works like before, but all pallets respawn when it activates.
- NOED activates when at least 1 exit gate is opened.
- NOED is also an obsession perk. If the obsession dies during the trial, the perk doesn't activate. The obsession sees the aura of the HEX totem when it activates. When the obsession starts working on the totem, he sees the killer's aura and vice versa.
Comments
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The only real problem with NOED is that survivors refuse to break the totems, yet still expect to be exempt from its effects. This is a non-issue.
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you didn't even read what I said, lol
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I did. I disagreed.
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you only read the title, your reply notification came 5 seconds after I posted.
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I tried to post that reply the first time this thread popped up, but by the time I pressed "Post comment", the thread was gone. I guessed it must've been because you edited it too many times in a row and it went into approval mode.
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If you say so.
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I do, but I guess you gotta cling to something to dismiss my point, so you do you.
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I don't think noed helps people rank up too fast. I think people rank up too fast by default regardless of noed. Noed is just a great scapegoat for every problem people have in this game
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Survivors rank up too fast by default, killers still need to kill survivors to rank up. And NOED helps them with that.
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We aren't planning to change NOED at the moment. We consider that NOED has multiple gameplay counters and is currently in a good place. We do not think of NOED as an equivalent to DS.
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What is the counter for low skill killers playing against high skill survivors? You didn't read the thread either? This is not another NOED thread about gameplay, it's a totally different issue.
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You're proposing changes and everyone is telling you it doesn't need those changes.
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That's because all who replied are fixated on the gameplay, including @not_Queen . This topic is about ranking and matchmaking.
I wrote in the first paragraph "I can't help but side with the killers on this one, since all you have to do is cleanse the damn totem."
Seems to me no one is actually bothering to read what I wrote and just replying based on the title, which is very rude since all I am doing is coming up with ideas in hopes of making this a better gaming experience for everyone.
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Just because people disagree with you, doesn't give you the right to claim that they didn't read your thread. A non-issue is a non-issue, ranking included. It's on the Survivors to punish the Killer by cleansing Totems.
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Noed and the flawed ranking system are unrelated, plain and simple.
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This is 100% another thread about NOED. Your premise is that NOED is ''too strong'' and allow ''low skill killers'' to rank up. Lots of other problems about rank, progression and matchmaking are causing issues. NOED isn't considered one of them.
If killers rank up too quick, they will hit a rank that will give them an actual challenge and will need to adapt / improve their gameplay, if they don't, they will rank back down.
As I mentioned before, we consider that NOED has multiple gameplay counters and is currently in a good place.
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Does that mean aren't planning to change NOED the perk? Or aren't planning to change anything related to NOED?
For example a lot of players would be fine with a totem counter as that helps solo players but doesn't affect the perk. I'm not sure if no changes means just the perk or the perk + totems.
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Just to the NOED perk. As I said, for now, nothing is planned.
The idea of totem counter has been brought back to the team but it hasn't been discussed.
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But they won't rank back down, since by the time the totem is found and cleansed, if anyone is looking for it at all, someone or more will get killed. I don't play swf and solo survivors don't normally bother too much looking for it. They'll keep ranking up, have really bad game experience and come on the forums to complain.
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SWF helps survivors rank up too easily. You have the possibility to get carried to a skill level where the killer is better than what your skill level would be. Once survivors rank up because their friends with coms helped them, their perception of the game balance is skewed and they flood the forums with unrealistic ideas to nerf killers, such as this thread.
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I don't play SWF and I doubt what you said is true, since those who play SWF usually do it most of the time and since SWF is op, they probably have no issues escaping the killer.
Also, I think my rework ideas were pretty fair, it doesn't render the perk useless, good killers can still profit from it, but noob killer won't.
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NOED does not help you rank up significantly. Just getting 1shot kills even when you 2k would make you still depip if you sucked throughout the match.
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I will try to help you see the big picture of the issue here, since I feel I didn't make myself understood enough.
We have a killer with NOED that gets ran for 5 gens.
NIOED activates
There are no or very few pallets left
Survivor location is known to the killer (exit gates)
Killer finds survivor at obvious location, speed boost+no pallets = survivor on the hook
Killer camps hook
Survivors get cocky, since killer is a noob that got ran for 5 gens and try to save, they die as well.
Killer ranks up and has even shittier games
Killer gets frustrated and goes on the forums to complain asking for unrealistic changes
Devs give in to the demands
Game is even more broken
I am not saying all the game's issues come from NOED, but I believe it plays an important part.
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See right there, where survivors got cocky? That's called a mistake, and mistakes should result in some kind of drawback. In your own scenario, the problem is survivors, just like I said.
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Bud you are trying but even the community manager came and told you that there would be no change to NOED.
There is no point insisting on anything. Even if it rewards failure or makes bad killers rank up too easily, there is nothing we can do about it right now.
I think you should just give up at this point.
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Yes, that is something we can totally agree on.
Listen, I don't want the perk changed, I can handle it, I have no problems with it being part of the gameplay. I just don't want the devs to listen to these killers, since clearly they don't know what they're talking about.
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You dont want the perk changed, you're just suggesting the perk be changed. I see, that makes sense.
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Well then, good news: the developers do not listen to any one person or group of people. They take in the feedback, see if it's justified, and then do what they think is better for the game. Just like every other developer team in the universe.
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I am hoping that's right, because there are a lot of killers and survivors that don't understand the game yet and come here on the forums, out of frustration and complain.
Survivors are ranking up too fast because of the broken ranking system also. They die in 5 seconds at rank 1.
I did notice in more recent times that the devs don't cave in to changes as easily as they did back on the steam forums.
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I don't think it's unfair to give solo survivors that kind of info for free when SWF doesn't need a perk for it already
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Thank God...
NOED is FINE as it is. Completely fine. Thank you.
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What? The game has a learning curve? How awful that you can't just pick it up and immediately know everything about it!
In case you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm.
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You can get 2 kills and still only black pip.
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NOED does not help you rank up. If you only rely on NOED to get a kill or 2 you will still blackpip
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I'm not comparing them at all. I'm just saying the only real part of NOED that's actually threatening is when you can't secure all 5 totems alone. Giving solo players that tiny bit of extra information helps even the playing field for them.
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Solo players getting information=SWF getting information. Just don't be altruistic in endgame and leave through the gates or don't run to the gates like an idiot and hide and look for the totem before opening the gates. It's not super hard, there's more counters than just cleansing all totems. If you're currently in a chase and NOED pops then that's too bad, most of the time you'll be hurt anyways once the last gen pops.
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Then why make a gameplay change? Make a ranking and matchmaking change for a ranking and matchmaking problem. That only makes sense, right?
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SWF getting that information doesn't make a difference because they literally already have that information regardless. It's a change that makes 0 difference to SWF at all.
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How about the idea to add a totem counter in the HUD? This idea was discussed a lot here and I personally think it's the best way to balance noed for solo survivors. What do you think about that @not_Queen?
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That's cool then.
I think a totem counter would go a long way to appeasing both sides.
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every non-sweaty SWF dicking around not calling out stuff turns into a more SWF with a totem counter. I think totems need a complete rework, they are just really really bad gamedesign. They ######### over lowtier survivors and are pointless against the best of the best.
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It makes absolute sense. Just easier to come up with a gameplay change idea.
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I still love how people measure themselves in this game based on rank and think getting to rank 1 means your supposed to be good at this game. I know that hurts some people's feelings on that, but rank 1 isn't that big of a deal other then getting the achievement.
Rank should really have a different name since that is what confuses people the most.
THERE ARE KILLERS WHO CAN ONE SHOT YOU THE WHOLE MATCH... yet people seem so upset when they get one-shotted by a 2-hit killer cause they didn't make it out at the end. Cause getting camped at the end rather then the beginning means the others can just leave you there to die instead of worrying about working on gens.
But cause the player takes a hill billy and didn't use their chainsaw very well, but then has noed and one shots a couple of survivors down at the end makes a huge difference. Why cause you couldn't dodge the M1 as easy as the M2? Yet there is still counter play to preventing the one shot on the M1.... So how is that any different, just cause every killer can get a one shot ability?
Anyways... All these NOED posts are funny AF!
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ill be honest with you.
when i saw the discussion title, i immediately thought "ugh. another one of these crybabies who cant handle the perk and now cry for a nerf. how annoying."
i also didnt plan on reading the whole thing, as i was sure it'd just tell me what every other noed post here tells me too: -the perk needs a nerf, -the perk is too strong, -the perk is only for bad / low skilled killers, -the perk has not enough counterplay, blahblah.
however, i got interested in the post, when i saw the discussion with @not_Queen, so i decided to give it a try.
and what can i say, it was exactly what i thought it was gona be.
no, the perk does not need any nerfs. no, it is NOT carrying bad killers up the ranks and it is most definitely NOT an unfair perk.
there is PLENTY of counter play to the perk, even BEFORE it activates. if you can not handle this perk, this is for you:
and also, here are my thoughts on your ideas:
1: NOED is no longer a HEX perk. Works like before, but all pallets respawn when it activates.
first off, how do you mean that "it works like before"? there were multiple states of noed before the totem nerf, so please state which one you are talking about: the 2 minutes noed or the infinite noed. if you were refering to the 2 minutes noed, this idea is straight up horrible, as anyone would be able to loop the killer until this timer runs out. if you were talking about the infinite noed, its not as bad, but still a huge nerf, as survivors would still be able to stall you with their pallets until a door opens and theen escape through it / delay you until everyone escaped and then eigther get cought (so you'd only be able to get 1 kill) or take the hatch. on top of that, survivors wouldnt even need to take care of their pallets anymore, as they would simply all respawn in the end game, so they can use them careless in the actual game. also, any survivor would immediatley aware there is gonna be a noed coming, once all the pallets on the map recover.
2: NOED activates when at least 1 exit gate is opened.
again, how do you mean that? does the cursed totem only activate when a gate is opened, or will the perk activate? if you were talking about a totem here, this idea is (again) horrible, as you would give the survivors tons of new time to go and destroy the totems, while leaving the gates at 99%, so the perk would never even activate. if we are talking about the perk activating, its better, but very unnecessary. noed only shines when you are actually able to defend a gate, not when its already opened, as everyone will just be able to leave before you can catch a second survivor.besides that, opening a gate only takes 20 seconds, so you would only gain a 20 second delay on noed, still allowing the perk to punish overly altruistic people easily. this is most certainly not needed, as its actually already a thing. i mean, 20 seconds is a very short time span... you should be able to stall that out and then leave through the now opened gate...
3: NOED is also an obsession perk. If the obsession dies during the trial, the perk doesn't activate. The obsession sees the aura of the HEX totem when it activates. When the obsession starts working on the totem, he sees the killer's aura and vice versa.
so your trying to add EVEN MORE unnecessary counterplay to it? great. give the killer even more restrictions during the actual game. also, what if the obsession leaves? will the perk stay active or will it deactivate? if it stays active, you would STILL allow one survivor to escape for free, while if it deactivates, the perk would be completely useless. also, you are still trying to keep it a totem perk, which is totally absurd. the perk has NO WHERE NEAR enough power for such a drastic nerf! not at all!
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- Yes it is infinite. The idea behind it is to help survivors against noob killers. At the end of the match most of the pallets are gone so any braindead killer will be able to catch survivors thanks to noed. Meanwhile, good killers can still land hits through pallets and take advantage of the speed boost. This is by far my favorite idea.
- Works like before, only it activates when gate is opened not powered. This would be a big nerf indeed. If you look at the big picture, there's no pallets, survivors are in obvious location, near the gates, trying to open and you have noed, pretty much guaranteed someone will go down. Again, it helps noob killers less.
- If the obsession leaves and you are against 3 survivors, you don't need NOED anyway, the game becomes a lot easier when 1 survivor is taken out of the picture for a good killer.
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wow, that is a terrible idea
also WE DONT NEED ANYMORE TYPES OF REWORKS FOR A PERK THIS BAD
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A totem counter is a hard nerf to NOED. Put it in Small Game. The problem isn’t solo survivors being outmatched, the problem is the solo survivors don’t want to adapt to gameplay and change their meta perks. They want to keep their Iron Will and Urban to sneak around maps and they don’t want to drop one for SG or Detectives Hunch, both of which make totem hunting VERY easy.
I played a Doctor yesterday who wasn’t very good but thanks to NOED, turned one kill into three. I was running Detectives Hunch and I cleansed four totems. The other guys could not even get ONE totem done. I ran the killer for the last two gens, so they popped with me having no idea where the fifth totem was. I got hit while opening a gate and the last guy got chased out of the map with me on the hook.
I don’t blame the killer there, I blame myself and my bum teammates who couldn’t even cleanse one totem. But a free totem counter on the HUD just reminds everyone at all times that totems are left and makes NOED pointless. Might as well just end the match as soon as five gens are done.
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Oh boy, but YOU are the man, who knows what he is talking about? Please!
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