Why Do People Think Plague Is Good Again?
She has 0 map pressure. 115 doesn't mean anything if everything she does slows her. Her addons are a joke outside of a few. The survivors have total control over your power. Broken isn't scary. Puking on objects spreads plague, ooh, big help? I totally wanted an extra 2 loops to make them get sick over 30s. You can only reliably break someone quickly if they run in a straight line, which you're an idiot if you do that anyway, survivors I mean. Not to mention you get a Legion stun level slow after puking/breaking someone.
Charging takes 3s, slows you down, and they can just easily cut a corner and boom. You can't puke on them. Now you've extended the loop. Oh, but corrupt purge! Good thing stealth doesn't exist. Good thing you can't abuse the multiple tiles/debris walls that are totally safe against her if you run them right. Not to mention how incredibly bugged she is. Direct shot with a full stream, never hits. Vile and corrupt. Just splashed on them. Nice little plague bath.
On top of all this fountain spawns are awful and waste so much of your time to get them if they just use farther fountains in areas with popped gens. They get a full heal, so again not scary getting broken in fact you can use that heal to your advantage. Not to mention fountains can be slapped in really awful areas so you have to really waste time to get to them. Don't you get pallet stunned either, or *pop* there goes the only thing that makes you even remotely useful.
All the while you're puking and smacking survivors, they're just popping gens left and right cuz what are you gonna do? Puke on them?I have better matches playing legit legion, (No moonwalking, no addons), than I do with Plague. I never use addons, but I've tried all of her addons through 2 prestiges now. Multiple perk loadouts, multiple playstyles, nothing works. Unless I play super sweaty/go after the unhooked which I hate to do.
Tl;dr: Plague has way too many downsides to her power, and little to no actual upsides outside of Corrupt, which is easily dealt with/removed. That's not even including game breaking bugs such as her power straight up not working. Damn shame cuz god I love her design.
Comments
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You can tell the developers don't have any kind of top tier play in mind when they design killers. In about a week or less survivors have adapted to the Plague and I've been seeing her a lot less. It's a shame since her appearance and mechanics are well done.
Her three major weaknesses are things that cannot be excused in a killer:
- Poor map pressure, mobility, and chase potential.
For a killer to be considered viable and strong in Dead by Daylight, they need to have at least two of those advantages, but preferably all three. With the speed in which generators are completed (being the only true objective survivors have), killers that do not have the ability to pressure the map by chaining quick downs will -never- be considered strong.
Unless the developers are willing to alter, change, or add to the core mechanics of the game, this will always be the case.
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100%. She's so amazingly well designed, but in-game she's easily the worst killer in the game which is sad. I love her cosmetics, I love her map, Red Forest especially. I like playing as her, but the frustration you feel from seeing puke just go through people. Hit, but not actually do damage. Having a ton of people sick, then suddenly full health as your gens pop. I really hope they at least address the grind/core soon.
I don't want to have to sweat every game. I want to give people a fun time, but I just can't if I want any kind of chance at pipping, or getting points.
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As I've unfortunately said too many times before, it's back to business as usual. BVHR doesn't seem to be interested in promoting a more varied killer pool for the higher ranks. It's just confusing how they'll release changes for the game that hint they'd like it to be taken somewhat seriously (the recent ranking changes), but in the same swing release yet another 'ok' killer that can't compete at the higher ranks. Mixed message city.
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Hell even at lower ranks she struggles. Fungoose has been posting vids of him solo bullying Plagues to the point they don't get hardly any hooks if any at all. He asked everyone to point a known Clown main streamer. People don't play these killers cuz they're just bad and you can only have so much fun getting utterly stomped and insulted.
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People think she's good because they see Scott play her against potatoes and win. She has absolutely nothing going for her.
Marth was destroying survivors left and right and kept calling her mid-tier AT BEST.
She's the worst killer, one that got nerfed a la Freddy (except even worse, because she wasn't that good on PTB yet she got nerfed anyway because the devs don't play their own game enough (minus one or two that I know)). You beg the survivors to allow you to have the power equivalent of Huntress mixed with Leatherface. She's abysmal.
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@BadMrFrosty "It's just confusing how they'll release changes for the game that hint they'd like it to be taken somewhat seriously (the recent ranking changes), but in the same swing release yet another 'ok' killer that can't compete at the higher ranks."
The first one is here to make you come back, thinking "Finally they're doing something !"
To make you buy the second one, only to see that it's still the same bullshits.
But at this point, they already got your money.
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That is a major bug that affects both killers and survivors. If you hear a sound, they left the match. No sound means they were kicked from the match or pulled the plug. A LOT of people including myself have been kicked or had survivors randomly ejected from the game. It's super frustrating.
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I like her, she's viable to me at r1 constantly. If I was going to change a few things about her, I would increase her scoring events her bp post game is pretty poor think I've only got one 29k on her, and the repeated chinging noise when people clense is annoying. She has alot of depth to her that not every killer users.
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She's mid tier, definitely not the worst killer in the game. Add-ons are needdd for her at higher ranks but even at that most killers need them.
I'm getting constant 4K games with everyone being 3 hooked. Ruin is needed definitely and corrupt intervention helps at the beginning but I think she's better than people are wanting to give her credit for.
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She needs momentum. Her sickness can take its toll, but only after it gets rolling on multiple people and pools start becoming scarce.
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she is good. shes not the best, but shes also far from the worst. she's really just your standard m1 killer but also has the ability to get a free hit with her puke by making them broken. enduring/spirit fury is scary on her
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The Plague had potential but it was lost. She's missing several add-on variants that the Clown and Huntress have.
Such as exhaustion after being hit or hemorrhage, etc.
They could've made her power more centered on infecting and debuffing survivors through the disease and make object infection last longer so that her disease will really affect the trial.
They could've had her add-on usage act like evolving in Plague Inc and be centered on strengthening the disease.
Instead we got a some weird "Pug"
Pig's secondary objective only significantly less dangerous.
Huntress's ranged damage.
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She's not the worst Killer but she's far from the best, I'd say she's straight up Mid tier and How effective she is relies heavily on survivors you face, If they know to dodge the vomit and loop then she's not going to do well but if they run in a straight line she'll get you down fast.
She's only really a threat in a wide Open area or with corrupt purge, which she has to give up any patrolling/chases to go and get giving up even more of her non existent map pressure unless you stumble upon one.
Her Power also instantly heals survivors at a fountain so any healing time done by survivors in the game is gone which gives more time to do gens so you find yourself being gen rushed often.
She's joins the growing group of non-viable killers at red ranks sadly.
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So she's a threat in the same areas as Leatherface, but LF has a chainsaw instead of some puke that does nothing but slightly annoy survivors.
Plague's kit is too bloated and was built to have way too many counters to itself from the start. In the end, she's an M1 killer with nothing going for her.
At least we agree that against good survivors she loses. I wish the devs could realize that if a killer insta-loses to good survivors, then said killer is weak, but then again BHVR will always be BHVR.
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I'd say being able to break Survivors and down them from there is more than just "slightly annoy." The problem is that by nerfing her speed while holding fully charged purge, she lost the ability to properly set up her shot before releasing the stream, forcing her to use the same "charge and fire" strategy that Leatherface has, only as you said, Leatherface gets to insta-down upon even grazing the Survivor while Plague has to still focus her stream to just be able to put them in a position to be one-shot. She kinda went from being a better Leatherface to a worse Leatherface in that regard IMO.
I still wouldn't call her the worst Killer in the game, though. More a Killer that lost a lot of viability with a single nerf.
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I run No Mither a lot because that's how little I care about being broken tbh. There is actually no reason to heal. Just rush the gens, cleanse on your way out. Bam, you've countered Plague entirely.
Also might be a bug, but I'm 100% certain her pallet break animation is longer than other killers'. But surprisingly her gen kick animation speed is the same. I really noticed how bad it was when I took off Brutal Strength on her.
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@TAG forgot to mention I agree with the rest of the post (other than the "Plague isn't the worst killer" part). Idk why the forums don't allow you to selectively quote specific parts of a post anymore, I'd have broken down your post and said where I agreed and disagreed.
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Who says that she is a viable killer?
The movement speed nerf has crippled her. Sure she is still better than other killers... cough cough.... but they dont set the bar that high =)
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She's really not any better than anyone at the moment. We had a Freddy situation happen to her. It's like the devs didn't learn anything about not listening to bad players (but then again, they have bad players working on their game and making said balance changes, so.......)
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I find Plague decent. Not top tier, not weak either. Somewhere along Myers, Pig and Clown in the higher midtier. Breaking survivors after a set time is strong against good loopers. And plague has a harder huntress M2+M1 combo. In corrupt form, she is one of the strongest killers but she pays in instaheals for it.
Decent powerlevel, although i really hope for more Billys, Huntress and Spirits in terms of killer powerlevel. Close though
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I find her corrupt purge to be at best on par with Huntress' hatchets. And Huntress doesn't require survivors to insta-heal at lockers in order for you to collect hatchets from them just to only be able to use them for 1 minute.
Being broken is a joke. Just gen rush harder. Then cleanse once the gens are done. Bam, you've countered Plague entirely.
She's nowhere close to Myers or Pig. Clown, maybe (because Clown is also awful). And Spirit is overrated, but also not bad (more like Myers level).
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They don't that's why nobody plays her.
I think I've seen a few survivor mains saying she's good and if they do that with a killer you know they're low tier
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Very similar to huntress indeed. If you can handle huntress, she will be better. but plague doesnt need good aim, you can just spray&pray. I think she has her niche in that regard.
Broken is not a joke. Permanent EW3, No Mither, Noed, Iri hatchets and Chainsaws are no joke. Its the breaking point where ######### gets serious. The difference between normal wraith and noed wraith is gigantic. Just like EW2 myers and EW3 myers. Running around broken is an invitation to get snowballed, my 2c.
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🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
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She's a flamethrower Killer who walks like a contestant on RuPaul's Drag Race.
She's not the worst Killer by a stretch. You K-Mains kill me with your whining wanting every Killer to have superspeed like Billy and Nurse.
On top of that, you say she has too many counters? Well, that's the point. You try to juke the Billy revving. You try to juke the Nurse clenching her fist. With the Priestess, you run around a wall. Legion has no counter and that's why people DC.
Good grief, pick a stance and actually believe in it, K-Mains.
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The only people you see saying she's good are low ranks or survivors who don't even play killer.
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Broken is a joke. I literally run No Mither against normal killers, you think broken scares me? You think it suddenly stops them from looping or hiding? This is the problem, you all look at one simple little thing and ignore literally everything else in the game. Perma E3 is strong cuz he could have a tombstone, and/or he has longer lunge, faster vault speeds, and isn't slowed by using his power. It also takes FOREVER to get and you can usually rush gens before he hits 3 if you play right.
NOED? Cleanse the totems, NOED isn't scary. If you get 4k'd by NOED you're bad. Sorry the truth hurts, but there it is. You don't HAVE to save someone, get out. Iri Hatchets got nerfed, and you can still use LOS, dodge, there is counterplay. I won't deny it's extremely difficult, but it's also an UR that drops you down to 1 hatchet, and requires a purple to be really effective.
Billy's chainsaw isn't a joke, you can avoid it though. LF's chainsaw? That's a joke. There is 0 difference between normal Wraith and NOED Wraith except my Wraith has 4 perks all game, instead of 3 and I don't risk losing it end-game. The difference between EW2 and EW3 isn't just the down. It's longer lunge and vault speed which is HUGE. He can also pocket it and is mobile with it meaning you, the killer, can use it when it's effective unlike Plague who relies on Survivors to give her power.
I had a group run around broken. They still just rushed my gens and only got a 4k cuz they a made really bad play and I managed to catch them in unsafe areas. They got a bit cocky, and altruistic. Had they just finished the gens, I'd have never won. I didn't get my corrupt plague once that entire game. To give you an idea about how bad they were, they dropped the god pallets immediately when I wasn't even chasing them. One guy ruined their safest spot.
Coordinated solos, can utterly stomp a Plague. You get warned when she gets her corruption, she glows bright red, she's super ######### tall, has a normal TR. You can literally just stealth her. No TR? Do gens. TR/see her? Stealth/run to a jungle gym/area to avoid her.
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Huntress is just better in every way to Plague, Plague is just kind of like a offbrand huntress
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Unlike you whining survivor mains, we actually get good and understand both sides. It's why we laugh when you post something this insanely stupid. She is the worst killer, and I say this after 40+ hours as well as 100%ing the game and having all killers P3. No one said they wanted another Billy and Nurse, or anything about speed? Stop throwing random assumptions out and pretending like anyone actually wants that. Every single one of you does this, and it's why no one takes survivors seriously. You're a ######### hive mind that wouldn't know balance if Thanos snapped.
What's the point of having so many counters you're worthless? A counter is fine, maybe two. She has MULTIPLE including game breaking bugs that stop you from using her power altogether. Can you name her counters? You seem to know her pretty well, but I bet you don't play her at all despite pretending you have any clue what you're talking about. Juke a Billy? Juke left or right, get to a jungle gym, you can do it. Is it easy, no, but it's possible.
Juke a Nurse? That's easy, stop running back and being predictable. Use LOS, use verticality, STEALTH HER. You can see how she blinks, work around it, hug debris so she hits it instead of you. Stop short, then run forward. Sit at a pallet and slam it in her face for free time/points.
Legion does have counters. Bait the pallet and stun, if they moonwalk it still takes 30s to bleed out. While frenzying they can't see marks and blood is hard to see without Bloodhound. I don't really see many doing that either. Frank's is rough, but you can still do gens. I base their power on their base kit, not addons.
Obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
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Imagine having to throw Nerf Hatchets at Survivors and unless they take the foam hatchets to a locker cuz they're kinda annoying to see on their screen, you don't get real hatchets at all.
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+1 I LoL'd
Pretty accurate though. They have complete control of her power.
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Sounds very different to my experience. Broken/Exposed survivors die fast and easily. They cant dodge a single hit for minutes, let alone multiple gens. Without the stronger half of their health states, they actually go down fast. And if multiple survivors are broken, thats a huge timeframe to just take over the game. How often do lose against 4x no mither? How strong to you think its in comparison to 4x normal survivors?
Imo running around broken to deny a corrupt form is shooting yourself in the foot. I'd love to see survivors doing this "strat" against me. Perma noed is neat
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How often do you lose to 4 No Mither? Have you ever seen a No Mither sabo squad?
If they're coordinated, they're only a bit worse. No Mither isn't broken by any means but it's far from the ######### perk everyone thinks it is.
Again, broken is a joke. If they have situational awareness, they'll reach a loop before you can get to them, then you have to go through the same long chase. Especially if they stay separated but coordinated, then you're screwed.
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I played a 4x no mither squad once and they like immediately lost :D
It only takes 1 hit to down them, they're not even getting the speedboost from getting hit. Let alone that the first hit is the easy hit and the second one the hard hit. So no, they dont go through the same lengthy chase, but on average less than half the time, if they stay broken. More importantly, it would be easy to snowball and win. Same as 4k slugging with noed. Its a possibility that is not there without everyone beeing broken.
I seriously cant believe you really think that 4x no mither is not a big deal. Every no mither can be felt in game. Let alone all four
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No Mither/Broken/Being injured doesnt make you run faster, or loop better or anything. If the people behind those characters are doing a good job while running around in that state, then that means they will do twice as good without using No Mither. A good coordinated SWF can definitely pull it off, but the fact that they wont be able to be at top health also affects them.
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No mither isn't as weak as people think they can get gens fast af and sabo squads are insane... It's not OP but good survivors with all 4 using no mither is a nightmare say bye bye to gens/hooks.
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well yeah, but that's why I said only a bit worse and not equal. But being broken as the only downside to being sick isn't enough, and it's shown every time anyone plays against her and destroys her.
Against Plague, though, unironically 4 No Mither survivors don't have any disadvantage against her compared to 4 normal survivors. Her power is that dependent on survivors.
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Simple math why no mither is #########:
Resilience adds 9% (or 15%?). So you work at 109%. The chased survivors loops AT MOST for 50% of the time he could. So they work 50% max.
Thats an efficiency of 54,5% with no mither squads for simple genrush. Now add, that hooked survivors take away momentum exponentially more the earlier they go down and its clear, that no mither squads are too occupied dying to rush gens.
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This is flawed. If they have DH, that's a helluva lot more than just 50% of the looping time. You also need to make that 9% 27% due to the other three survivors running Resilience and working on gens. It can vary greatly depending on perks and items.
People really need to learn that healing isn't necessary. Like at all. Unless you're going against a Nurse and you still need to do like 3-5 gens, then maybe? But otherwise, healing is a waste of time.
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@Weederick You can't explain that to resilience apologists, they refuse to accept that resilience is a ######### perk when it comes to gen rush. I don't know its effect on vaults so I can't speak about that.
All it does is to remove 6.6 second from a generator which is more or less the same with 3 great skill checks. Just equip stake out and have the same effect with one more health state.
Thanatophobia 1 injured guy gives the entire team 6% debuff but it is considered to be extremely underpowered.
'Survivors don't cleanse themselves and broken doesn't mean anything'. Dude Myers is the best killer among low and mid tier killers, how is plague worse than others in that situation? You literally have permanent tier 3 myers in your hands at that moment.
@Blueberry has said it, the only legitimate concern is insta heal since it prevents the killer applying pressure. Whenever they get off of the hook, they immediately become healthy and start to work on a generator which is a problem. Either remove insta heal or make it that when you are injured, it takes longer to use the fountain.
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I already said this, but what is the difference between using Dead Hard as No Mither vs using Dead Hard without it? Its like doing math like this: (2*2)/2 = 2
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Assuming the time between being seen to being hit the first time (t1), the time between being hit the first time and using DH (t2), and the time from DH to being downed (t3) is all the same, then you lose 1/3 of your looping time. Granted a lot of factors can make t1, t2, and t3 be vastly different values, but let's just say for the sake of argument they're equal.
So one survivor keeps the killer busy for 2/3 the time he normally would without No Mither. The others are at +9 repair speed on gens thanks to Resilience. This doesn't take into account that they could be using toolboxes, so they're AT LEAST ~27% more productive on gens combined (this number can fluctuate due to how much time they can save by using toolboxes, and it also assumes everyone is working on separate gens) (Prove Thyself really only comes into effect for the last 2 gens if they have it).
So in a hypothetical situation, the differences are minute at best (6% difference? More or less shows how little healing matters). But it's really all situational.
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- If you fall for dead hard against no mithers, uninstall
- You can use DH without no mither too. Not that you should fall for it in the first place.
- 9% per person. Its 27% only with 3 people, so you mean 327% for 3 people, which is still 109%.
Healing is not a waste of time. I did some math before, you only need to get chased for 10-15s to make healing (vs gens) worth it. The attack cooldown and sprintburst from getting hit make up for 10s already, so unless you run into walls or potato hardcore, its worth healing for your fellow genrushing teammates.
I would only consider not healing, when the game is about to end. Either the survivors are about to open the gates or escape or the killers is about to 4 slug and you NEED the last gen done or the second for hatch atleast. Healing means playing it safe, which is good if survivors are ahead. They dont want to throw a winning match by not healing and then getting 4 slugged. Not healing is risky like slugging, sometimes worth it for immediate advantage. But only if you know what you're doing. If you go down quickly because you didnt heal, you missplayed.
If everyone just goes broken and doesnt care, they're dead. Its a terrible strat.
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Because I feel powerful when I use her.
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If you heal that often, then thank God I don't swf with you.
Where did you get 109 and 327 from?
I don't fall for DH against No Mithers, but you can easily use DH to extend a chase anyway by reaching a pallet or window you normally couldn't get to, which then extends the chase for dumb amounts of time.
The time you spend to heal can easily be replaced with doing a gen. If you don't use No Mither, then run Adrenaline and gen rush into it. It's actually that simple.
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How? And why?
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I heal 0-1 times per match usually. But the one time i do heal myself, it might be the reason why the killer gets looped for long and the gens are popping. While the survivor next to me doesnt heal and he gets half a generator done in that way. Later on he gets caught by surprise and our team has to stop genrushing to save that dumbass, losing more than 40s of genprogress.
If 2 survivors are working generators, you only have to waste 16s to make it worth healing. 10s of it is already covered by the bloodburst and cooldown. If you can juke 6s, you're even on efficiency. Now take that good looper and imagine how much value he can squeeze out of that health state. He can loop a killer for 1 minute with 1 health state. Thats 60s 2 = 120s of gens. Much more than 40s work alone. If all 3 survivors are working gens (which is more likely the better you loop), then you gain 180s of gens. The potential gains of healing yourself is muuuuch higher than yolo repairing generators injured.
Thats why healing yourself is good. Its not about YOU doing gens instead of healing. Its about YOU surviving long enough, that 3x as much survivors can do gens during it.
327 is 3x109. Because you said its 27% more, but its not. Its still 9%. Even if 4 people work 9% faster each. You still only work 9% faster.
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Yeah tbh I wouldn't even mind if they increased how much puke it took to transition them to broken if they removed the heal on fountains. This would make the game more fun for both sides. Then Plague wouldn't be as concerned about tunneling and she would want to just spread her sickness as much as possible to create pressure and removing the heal on fountains actually makes this viable and slows the game down. Currently with the fountain heal her spreading pressure play style with her sickness is just not a viable means. I also think this play style just fits her more thematically anyway.
Her lack of pressure from her current state is what leads her to getting gen rushed so easily right now.
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@Blueberry And then Self-Care would become meta even FURTHER and everyone would complain about dealing with Broken. Plague would become the next Legion...
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