get rid of exhaustion addons
that might be a little much. its my favorite option but people are guaranteed to hate that idea.
instead no exhaustion addon should cause exhaustion for more than 20 seconds, and while under the effects of exhaustion, you recover from it while running
you ONLY recover from exhaustion while running if the killer made you exhausted, not if u used your perk
I think its fair if you can last more than 20 seconds after being hit with exhaustion that you get your perk back
you cannot reset the exhaustion timer (clown) once the survivor is exhausted, and they must get hooked or not run for 40 seconds to recover from exhaustion after using their perk (personally, I feel u should recover from exhaustion while running and not in chase but that's just me)
pig's exhaustion add-on should just be removed, that addon is built for tunneling
Comments
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God prevent that there are counters to survivor perks
Tunneling? You mean when survivors repair gens to 100% without switching them?
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Exhaustion doesn't make you slower it just prevents you from using a perk for a little bit. If you can't loop or win the chase without an exhaustion perk do you really deserve to have one? That's what I think at least; and I'm a balanced landing hero.
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That's cute but it's false. Survivors have 1 objective, killers have 4.
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its not just a little bit, its until the chase is over, which means you'll never get to use your perk effectively. saying if u "deserve" a perk is confusing because you could say that about literally anything.
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Survivors have 5, out of a possible total of 7.
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I like the addons from an opposition perspective. They prevent us from getting to comfortable with the killers distance and always relying on that last second speed burst for the escape. Matches are far more interesting when you can't guarantee a single method escape.
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you're comparing tunneling players to gens?
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No. It is not equivalent.
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Because gens don't have feelings?
I'm outta here. So much nonsense
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I don't know many people who enjoy having their perks countered before they even have the chance to use them but hey to each their own
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What? You are the one talking nonsense and I think you know that since you gave up arguing after one rebuttal LOL. Later dude.
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They are using a valuable add on slot for a perk that someone might not even have.
Say me, I don't run exhaustion perks, so why the hell would I care if a huntress hits me with something that makes me exhausted?
I know I don't make up the majority, so my point might be moot. However, the killers are still gambling on the fact that the survivors would be running a perk that makes the add on useful. Besides, how often would a sprint burst user actually be affected? They start running as soon as they see the Clown or the Huntress anyways.
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not everyone is a sprint burst user, they don't care about exhaustion addons I know that.
why bring up a point just to debunk it right after? the last time I saw a game with less than 2 exhaustion perks was when I was rank 20, we all know everyone (mostly) uses them.
if you're so concerned about that valuable addon slot, maybe this change is for the better to discourage people from using exhaustion addons if they aren't great in chases, so they'll choose something better.
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You don't get my point. Everything in this game is completely situational. I forgot when, but I once had like two or more matches where the survivors I faced had no or only one exhaustion. Meaning if I did have a add on to counter Sprint Burst/Dead Hard/Etc, it'd only work on one person.
I'm not concerned about slots since I don't care much for trying to counterplay something I don't even know exists. Look, all I can say is that due to how situational the add ons are (and how few killers actually have it), they should remain. For the few who can actually use it.
I dunno, I can't word myself right at the moment.
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Such a tremendous argument you made there.
That's why I answered like that.
My response to OP is:
No. Because.
There's no reasoning and talking sense into people that will never understand the point of view of the opposing player.
Have a nice life.
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you seem to think because its situational and limited to only a few killers its fine. thats not how you should judge balancing imo but I guess u feel differently. its like saying iri head is balanced because only huntress can use it. something as strong as completely removing a perk with no extra effort from your side isn't balanced to me.
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Completely killing momentum with a insta heal is pretty bad but since it's situational and rare, it's fine.
'A good killer can just knock down the person who has full health again.'
Sure, but that's still time you could have used for literally anything else. Sorry to use a strawman, but can you see my point?
You are doing the survivor equivalent of what killers do. Flashlight blinds exist?
Erase or nerf flashlights. Even though there are counters. (I dislike item complainers as much as I like add on complainers).
'Something as strong as completely removing a perk with no extra effort from your side isn't balanced to me.'
Hex perks would like a word with you. Yeah I know high risk/mediocre reward is okay when it screws killers but still. If you get hit with a hatchet and get exhausted then you got hit. I avoid hatchet throws all the time until the game says screw you and allows me to get hit.
And if you get hit by a Clown's bottle before the chase... Eh.
I'm sorry for making a wall but hopefully it brings my points and is easy on the eyes.
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u believe even Insta heals are fine because they're rare, which I just don't get.
"You are doing the survivor equivalent of what killers do. Flashlight blinds exist?
Erase or nerf flashlights. Even though there are counters. (I dislike item complainers as much as I like add on complainers)."
I don't understand what you're saying here, flashlights have easy counters
u do have to at least put some effort into disabling a hex, if you are the one looking for it that is. its different when you flip it because there are 4 survivors and only 1 perk to disable, so not everyone has to contribute in disabling it
also tips on avoiding clown bottles? especially before getting injured to use dead hard? or making it to a window or elevation for lithe or balanced? doesnt sound reasonable to avoid a bottle until you reach something to use ur exhaustion perk, if ur not lucky enough to be on a gen really close to one of those
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God forbid a killer has some kind of counter to a survivor perk. And not every killer even has an exhaustion add-on. Hell, the only one I find worth my time using is Iri King because of its multitude of other effects. The others don't guarantee they're useful because the survivor could just not be running an exhaustion perk.
Honestly, get rid of exhaustion perks if you want to get rid of exhaustion add-ons. They extend chases for absurd amounts of time and require no skill to use. And have no reliable counter.
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Everything in this game is pretty fine. I don't mind SWF, I don't mind campers or tunnelers. Do I heavily dislike clicky clickers or t-baggers? Yeah. Do I dislike getting hit forever while on hook? Yeah. But that is not my main point.
I know flashlights have easy counters. I have no problems with flashlights. But to make a post about a add on which (at least on Huntress) may not take effect at all, is the equivalent (to me at least) of a killer complaining about items.
You prove my point with that Hex one. Three other people can do objectives (not counting any chase that could occur), while one guy can just work on totems. Equip a map and you need no one else.
Alright, I'll give you lee way on the Clown part if you are running Dead Hard. However, that is the thing. Unless the Clown player has the forethought of a god, he can't really use his bottles to counter Lithe/Sprint Burst/Balanced Landing. Since any smart survivor would use those perks before the Clown could hit them with a bottle.
Sprint Burst: Run as soon as you know it's the Clown, people do this already.
Lithe: With it's QOL it can be used like a better Sprint Burst, unless you aren't close to a window but like 75% of the gens are usually near a window 100% of the time. Except for the cornfield. [Bad Word] the corn.
Balanced Landing: This perk is situational as hell, and might not even work at all. That's not the Clown's fault, it's the map's fault for not having a elevated place.
Didn't get to say this earlier, but I hope your day is going fine.
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Killers can't have equipment that counters Survivor equipment?
It's a 1-time use, or 2 if you place an expensive Black Ward.
Perks are forever.
Sometimes you'll just have bad match-ups.
You know, like how you may run Distortion, but they don't run any aura Perks at all.
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This, pretty much.
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Really?
I though its survivors: do gens and cleanse totems
killers: hook survivors, prevent gen progress
What are the 4 objectives you are talking about @brokedownpalace ?
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we share really different viewpoints lol. I think a lot of things in this game have a problem but that's for another post.
I'm still not comfortable with how u feel about how flashlights being compared to exhaustion addons but that's fine.
yeah I was with u on hex perks not having everyone needed to counter them. only one that requires a lot to counter is noed because ALL totems need to be cleansed. if you assign 1 person to totems thats nearly 2 gens worth of time finding and cleansing them. and if someone is getting chased then only 2 people are on a gen. and if someone is on a hook and someone else is getting chased... you get the point (hopefully).
with balanced, if you're exhausted, it may not be worth running up that hill anymore, that is what I'm trying to get at. it would be the addon's fault, not the map. (as u said, its situational, so if that situation arises it doesnt even matter because of an add-on)
we both feel strongly about our own sides and I dont think we're gonna convince the other otherwise lol
also I didnt sleep last night but other than that I'm feeling fine, hope you're good as well
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it's a brown or yellow addon, I don't think people are worried about running out of them.
either way, you benefit because you don't have to worry about exhaustion perks or having your aura read. you could argue u wasted a perk/addon slot, but you brought them for a purpose and you got what u wanted
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We truly share different view points. This shall be my last response as I don't want this to go on forever. And I can make this go on for a long time, but I don't want to.
I'm not comparing flashlights to a add on. I am merely saying the argument you brought up is the equivalent of a killer complaining about a item.
Yeah I get the point.
Balanced has the extra perk of recovering from falls faster. I know people who run it for that, and that alone. It's the same for a perk like BBQ. People usually just run it for blood points now a days.
I may mostly sympathize more with the killer side, but do not assume me to be against survivors either. I play both sides. But yeah, I think we are both too stubborn to change our views like that.
Darn, well I hope you can get better rest soon. Have a nice day.
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also to anyone arguing "why cant killers have stuff to counter survivor stuff", they can. exhaustion perks shouldn't be one of them. they're a 1 time use per chase, and you're not always guaranteed to be able to actually use them well (except sprint burst, but sprint burst doesnt care exhaustion addons)
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Exhaustion perks are the strongest perks survivors have. Of course there needs to be some counter (and for quite a few killers, there isn't).
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And then they're gone.
Unlike Perks.
And they're not guaranteed to give a benefit, just like Perks.
What if they bring other good Perks besides Exhaustion Perks? Boom, Add-on nullified.
You can argue you win either way because there's no Exhaustion Perks at all.
I argue that they now bring something else that can help just as well.
Here: Survivor has 4 Perks, 1 of which is Dead Hard.
Killer equips "Trigger Exhaustion" Add-on.
Survivor now has 3 Perks, the Killer's Add-on can be used.
And then this: Survivor has 4 Perks, none of which is an Exhaustion Perk.
Killer equips "Trigger Exhaustion" Add-on.
Survivor now has 4 Perks, the Killer's Add-on cannot be used. (Well yes, they get Exhausted, but it has 0 effect.)
Certain equipment cancelling out certain equipment is totally fine, and the power role cancelling out an ability that might not even be there with a consumable is totally fine.
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with my proposed change there is still a counter, its just not as free as before, you have to actually capitalize on them being exhausted
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1. Stop
2. Drop
3. And
4. Roll
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I'm fine with that. You shouldn't be permanent exhausted just because a clown isn't a completely 4head and hits you with bottles. If you run a clown for long enough you deserved to use you perks, no matter what addons he's using.
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if u want an addon that would be good for all situations, you'd bring one that does just that. if u want an addon to prevent exhaustion perks, you'd bring an add-on that does that. this isn't the Hannah Montana theme song. you also share the same mentality as Shad in which u believe because something is rare or limited use, it is balanced. that is something I can never support
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It's almost like killers don't want survivors to do their objective. @Master Survivors can't tunnel a gen. That would be like tunneling a hook. Do killers tunnel hooks? No? A more apt comparison is to compare tunneling to looping the killer in strong spots.
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Not much need to make a point, remove NOED, blah blah blah, now this? Okay.
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that is a 100% better comparison. both are dickish things that are unnecessary in order to win the game
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Why should you recover from exhaustion while running when it’s caused by an add-on? That would make the add-ons pointless. 20 seconds in a chase on a majority of map RNG is NOTHING. That’s one safe pallet, potentially two against a majority of killers.
Ive played some asymmetrical competitive MP games before DbD. It amazes me how much people who only play on the 4 side don’t understand the dynamics neededfor a balanced game. DbD is survivor sided because 1 of those 4 can keep the killer occupied for way too long to make balance viable. That’s why killers that ignore this rule (Billy, Nurse, Spirit and Legion to a degree) are constantly viewed as broken and unfun to play against.
A killer should be able to end a chase somewhat quickly, barring great survivor skill. But it’s not great skill that extends chases, it’s looping one safe pallet to the next, hopping around T walls, etc. Exhaustion add-ons help even the playing field in the chase a little, and killers like Clown badly need it. More killers need add ons that cause it, tbh. And I say that as someone who runs DH in every build.
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I didn't say that i think all Add-ons are fine, you just assume that.
We're talking about an anti-Exhaustion Add-on, thus i say it's balanced with how Exhaustion works.
Please don't make mindless assumptions as you'll have a very wrong image of me.
Now then, about the first bit that you said: You're right.
If there was an Add-on that gave them anti-Exhaustion, a big permanent Haste bonus, Exposed forever etc. of course Killers would generally go for that on my Bloodweb.
Just the same as Survivors would generally farm for a Perk on their Bloodweb that allows them to insta-heal, sprint infinitely, repair Generators instantly etc. and then never run anything else in place of that Perk.
Thankfully, such things don't and won't ever exist and thus i find you trying to make it into an argument flawed.
The concept of anti-Exhaustion Add-ons is fine and should just stay.
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when i described that mentality of yours, i was only referring to this topic because you've brought it up being limited use twice now, think topic related and u won't assume what u think I'm assuming. maybe I shouldve been more clear on that
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Limited use being mentioned twice does not automatically mean i see that as THE legitimate reason.
It's just balanced as it is, to put it more simple.
I guess i'll mention this twice as well: Sometimes you'll have certain equipment cancelled out certain equipment, it's how the game's always been and i prefer we don't fix what's not broken.
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you can't say it isn't one of your main reasons, so dont try to dismiss it as it isn't one. also yes I understand that happens in the game but as I said earlier, I dont believe that should be the case with exhaustion perks for reasons u can scroll up to see
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By that logic survivors have 5 objectives.
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bad maps, killers, setups, etc. are what make chases last as long as they do. those are what need to be fix and people need to improve for chases to be shorter. exhaustion perks are one of the last things to dictate a chase
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I indeed can't say that, nor do i want to.
I didn't say it isn't a main reason, i said it isn't THE reason, i wasn't dismissing anything.
I read your reasons before and find them invalid.
It'll always make them function while other equipment can still be nullified, some even without counter-equipment.
Exhaustion shouldn't get an exception as they already make great counters towards a few Killers' Powers while providing a general great bonus against any other Killer.
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the only exhaustion perk I see countering some of the killer's powers is sprint burst, and that is irrelevant to this because sprint burst doesn't care about exhaustion addons. and what's wrong with great bonuses from positioning/timing? a lot of other perks reward you for something that don't have counters so why shouldnt exhaustion?
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Yeah, the numbers are very extreme atm, especially with exhaustion not recovering while running.
I think there should be a partly-exhausted rebuff where you could recover from THAT rebuff while running
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I got hit with a hatchet that had an exhaustion add-on, so I couldn't use my Dead Hard, and the killer got an ez smack. Didn't help that the game lagged the f*ck out after the hatchet hit me, so I couldn't even get distance.
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Sounds more like bad internet connection and relying on a perk to outskill the killer. Darn.
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Well, I wasn't planning on needing to use it until my game lagged. Here's the clip:
By the way, my internet it actually pretty good. My ping doesn't usually go over 50ms.
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Why do discussions like these get so much attention?
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