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The Plague needs a Buff next patch!
Survivor Main here...but enjoys Killer side 30% of the time. I made her my temporary new killer main since she was released. Here just what I noticed...
Base kit. All games (about 50 played), her perks only (all T3) Level 50 with those questionable add ons. Lol
1. Absolutely no Map Pressure at all.
2. She is SLOW considering her power is not not that effective.
3. Her "power" is optional to use (loop/pallets/etc) at best, plus it just wastes so much time. So basically just use her censer & bloodlust to get the job done.
4. Just like Freddy (dream transition), survivors are STILL able to do their main objective with no concern or pressure about being infected.
5. Unless you have very unskilled survivors in your trial, without the use of other killer's perks, she would be destroyed by seasoned survivors such as myself lol
Possible buffs:
1. Auras of fountains are no longer visible to survivors once infected. (Adds Pressure & time to game)
2. Speed her up!!!!
3. Her power should slow survivors down. At it's current state, it doesn't. It just makes a very annoying experience for a survivor to cough/puke all around the map until broken or finds a fountain . Once infected, survivors speed should slow down a tiny bit. (Think max madness with Doc.)
4. Survivors ONLY goal once infected should be to find a fountain (Adds Pressure). I am guilty of this myself, I just continue doing gens and when convenient for me, I do a 360 of my cam and go to the nearest highlighted fountain. Lol.
Any Plague players out there can add to this? I noticed she wasn't really a capable "killer" with her base perks alone. She NEEDS the other killer perks to be viable IMO. I distinguish how "well" a killer is with their base perks alone. She failed lol. My opinion.
And did anyone of you get her adept trophy AFTER survivors learned her play style/counter after that 1st week of release?
Comments
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Her speed needs to be returned to normal when she's holding her vomit. She slows down when she starts charging, she's slow while holding it, and she slows down again after releasing it. If survivors were slowed down, this might make sense, but a survivor's speed isn't affected at all by Vile Purge, and survivors get a speed boost when hit by Corrupt Purge.
Something needs to make it more dangerous for survivors to stay sick. Maybe slowed down repair speed. Or maybe their aura is revealed to the killer occasionally if they remain sick (like being in Freddy's Dream World, but not constant). She has the pink add-on that reveals a survivor's aura when they vomit, which doesn't really seem like it should be a pink add-on; either survivors aren't using the fountains and it needs to be part of her base kit, or survivors are using fountains and the add-on is nearly useless and shouldn't be rarer than green.
I got her Adept achievement on the 24th, but I did it on the PS4 at rank 16, and I used her as an M1 killer. I didn't use her power once.
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Is this an April Fools?
Plague is a good killer.
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Plague should get the red vomit by default. Interacting with red vomit objects like generator will take 1 health state from the survivor per 0.1 seconds.
Drinking the fountain should convert the puke to a no-cooldown, no-charge-up, instant 48m radius nova pulse on activation.
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2 things that were suggested in the PTB:
- Survivors periodically suffer the Hindered Status whenever they vomit. This makes looping against the Plague more difficult due to random slowdowns while fully infected and in the broken status, but not too Oppressive for her as decent survivors can still deal with it. However it's still threatening enough that it will encourage survivors to use the fountains.
- Also when survivors vomit they gain a short term 3-4 meter AoE that infects all objects and survivors around them. This eliminates the need to directly interact with objects and other survivors to spread the disease, and slightly reduces the amount of work the plague herself has to do in order to spread it. On top of that, she will gain Contagious and Infection bloodpoints in the devious category for every time an object or survivor is passively diseased this way which will help her currently poor BP gain.
I would also add that Her overall BP gain needs major adjustments as she is currently the lowest BP scoring killer.
Make it so that generators that are currently diseased/infected gain a reduced repair rate of 10%. Sick survivors can still work on uninfected gens at the normal rate, but if they get to the point where they are fully sick and infect the gen, then the repair rate will suffer for everyone on it. This also allows her to apply better pressure herself just by vomiting on generators to not only spread the disease but slow down repair progress on them. Perhaps this is too oppressive, but on paper it sounds okay to me. Anyone else think so?
I'm also totally with you on speeding her back up like she was in the PTB, where she slowed down for charging, sped back up to normal speed while holding, and slowed down again for her cooldown period. It took some getting used to, but made her a more effective killer in chases, and I'm honestly unsure as to why they changed it since she wasn't OP that way.
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Just make her as she was in the PTB
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Instead of Hindered I think it would be better to bring back the sickness VFX that covered the screen but make it so that when they puke the VFX covers more of the screen and maybe it's fuzzy or tilted camera (like a rocking effect though this could cause motion sickness for some people). Something that makes it more likely the survivor will make a mistake.
The problem with putting an effect like Hindered on puking is that it's random. Like it's already stupid enough when you are against a Doc and go to vault something only to randomly scream which blocks the vault action. This is pretty much in that same category. But make it something that doesn't affect the player's ability to play normally directly, make it indirect like I said above, and it becomes a lot more fair/balanced.
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@thesuicidefox Oh god please no. I hate it when I have VFX covering my screen. I'd rather have another mechanic limiting my actions instead of getting hit simply because I can't see properly. :(
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But that's the idea. It would only pop up for a second or 2 as you puke, not a permanent thing. It's to make it so you are more likely to mess up which then the killer can capitalize on. Limiting your actions is a bad decision because then the mistake is out of the hands of the player. It just happens, randomly, and there is nothing you can do to play around it.
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@thesuicidefox It's probably personal taste what each person finds more "bearable".
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good at losing
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It's not about what is "bearable" it's about what has counter play and what is balanced. Limiting a player's action by slowing them down, preventing a vault, etc, has little to no counter play. You just get screwed over by it when it happens and there is nothing you can do. Limiting a player's view however, has counter play and is thus more balanced. You can overcome this limitation through playing well, but it increases the chance you will mess up which the killer can capitalize on. It makes looping harder but not impossible (where Hindered would make it just impossible which is a lame experience). There is also the chance that you mess up and the killer fails to capitalize on it. That can happen with the Hindered effect also, but the difference there is that the killer is actively capitalizing on something instead of RE-actively. The former rewards killers just because and the latter rewards them for good play.
Like I agree that visual limiters can be a bit lame, but action limiters are far more lame.
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@thesuicidefox If I play against a Doc, I know that I have to change how I loop a bit, for example. I prefer to deal with that instead of seeing something important too late. I could also argue that there's no counter to only seeing half of what is going on.
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But there is though, you just need to be more focused. However you can't control when you will scream, and while you can play around it to an extent there will come a time where it happens and there is NOTHING you can do about it, and it will cost you the chase. Like you can be in a position where vaulting the window is your ONLY option, and even though you played to avoid the window you are forced into it by pure circumstance but then get screwed over and that is beyond your control. You can still do anything you want if your vision is limited, it's just that it's harder to do is all. You can't argue there is no counter play to that because there always is... be aware of your surroundings.
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@thesuicidefox You can't be aware of your surroundings if you don't see them. Less screen = less information
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Then what does it matter? If you run into a structure without any previous knowledge of the layout that can screw you over too. If you are impaired visually, then it won't make a difference because you already have no awareness. That's what awareness is, the forethought to see what's around BEFORE something happens, not while it happens.
Not to mention that you can still totally see your surroundings, just that it's harder to do efficiently. But if you have previous knowledge of the layout of say, windows on Lery's then it shouldn't matter as much if you can't see them.
Like I'm sorry but there is no way you can sit there and say it's balanced to remove actions from the player but it's NOT balanced to limit your perspective a little bit. You can not like having your view cut off, not saying you should like it, but it's objectively the far more balanced of the two options.
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I agree Plague does need buffs. I mean it’s a little ridiculous that for Freddy’s weaknesses he has some definite pluses that a good Freddy can take advantage of - Plague doesn’t have ANYTHING in her favor, meanwhile survivors get free heals!
I get it. Devs probably did not want another Legion on their hands, but they need to put their foot on the Plague pedal a little more because she’s just not effective. It’s a little sad that Freddy and Leatherface, both extremely weak killers, have things in their favor that make people who play them want to play them (ie. Aura tracking, instant down and potentially more maneuverable than hillbilly (LF isn’t locked into a straight line.))
Coming from Overwatch and maining Symmetra, I am a little saddened once again the woman character who looks and acts like a fierce queen is once again cast to the bottom of the barrel.
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@NoShinyPony To make a point let's look at smoke grenades and flashbangs in shooting games.
Most of the time, when someone throws a smoke grenade it merely limits your view of the battlefield. Your actions are not impaired, you can shoot and reload and do whatever you want, but without being able to see the enemy you need to have the awareness of your surroundings to take advantage of the smoke. Running into the smoke will most likely get you killed because if bullets just come flying through the smoke you get hit and die. But if you know "hey there is a wall 10 ft forward and 2 ft to the left I can use as cover" you can, in theory, run up to that wall despite not being able to see it, and in this case use the smoke to your advantage. Generally you do this if you were the one to use the smoke, because you look around and think "if I smoke this spot I can run to over here and the enemy won't know and the smoke will give me enough cover to make it there" but you can also do it reactively if the enemy smokes you and you have the awareness of your surroundings to make that play.
Now imagine if instead of a smoke we have a flashbang. Flashbangs typically remove some level of control from your character. While they also come with a visual limiter (and audio limiter) the main effect you see is a slow down action. This let's someone pop you with a flashbang and attack you, while you have very VERY few options to counter. If you get flashbanged chances are very high you will die and not be able to counter. So you are left with the option to just avoid the flashbang, but that in itself does not change the fact that IF HIT, you are left mostly helpless. It turns an encounter into something where you can't stop it once it happens. Contrast this with a smoke grenade, where you can completely counter anything the enemy does it's just harder and more risky to do. And yes, in something like COD or BF when you get flashbanged there is a level of counter play where you can still win the fight, but it's VERY minimal chances of success against a veteran player. Really it's more luck than skill where you just spray your gun and hope you hit someone before they hit you. More than likely, flashbang = death. Smoke =/= death unless you do something stupid to allow the other players to kill you (ie. running into the smoke without any awareness).
Case and point, stun effects in Overwatch have generally been a source of a lot of complaints from players. Mcree's flashbang and Brig's shield bash were things the community generally disliked, all because it took control away from the player and there was little to no counter play because of this. I haven't kept up on the game in a while, so IDK if these things are still issues, but the point here is that... removing control from the player = bad. VERY BAD. BHVR has even stated they want to avoid these types of mechanics as much as possible, which is why we will never see something like "Boil Over inverts killer controls" or some other thing.
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I dunno, I feel Plague is the most balanced killer of the bunch (if you exclude some of the bugs that came with her)
She’s neither OP or Weak in my experience, as I’ve encountered some Plagues who have slaughtered us pretty viciously, but I’ve also encountered some we’ve won against easily.
All depends on how she’s played really.
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@thesuicidefox Look at my posts. I'm talking about my preferences. My personal taste, what I prefer to play against.
You prefer to adapt to a limited field of view instead of Doc's brizzles zapps. That's fine. I prefer it the other way around. That's also fine.
There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal taste.
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I've been playing Plague a lot. She's not bad but definitely could be better. The hit boxes on her puke doesn't register sometimes (This happens rarely. Like 1 outta 20 matches.) and she doesn't encourage survivors to use the fountains unless they're scared of being one shot.
Corrupt Purge is downright amazing. It's incredible how effective it is to down players if used right. Kinda like Huntress but with less precision and multi-hit, all at the cost of range. Add on top of the fact that you're 115% she can somewhat handle herself better than the former. Even with the timer.
Vile Purge however, is a less effective version of Madness without the map pressure. Survivors that have already adapted to the no-heal meta are going to not have a problem being sick. Even with the tracking abilities (generators becoming contagious), it's not enough to stop map pressure. If she is going to be buffed, the devs will have to address that. Pretty easy to slug though if you can get them.
Basically - Give more reasons for survivors to use the fountains so The Plague benefits more. Healing is nice but being sick doesn't really affect generators all that much against a team that's not scared of being injured.
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I've played probably more than 50 games as her and I can agree she needs a very slight buff, but nothing major.
Problems:
1. Over reliant on add-ons. I use green charge speed increase and effectiveness add-ons and they are needed for her.
2. Not enough brutality points. If you break survivors and down them you'll not get above 3000 points unless you farm the survivors.
3. Survivors don't use fountains. Personally I don't mind this because it's an easy one hit down but gens can go extremely fast.
4. Too slow while holding purge. I understand this when using corrupt purge but with vile purge it should be different.
5. If survivors aren't broken the sickness doesn't spread instantly. I might be wrong but I think if you save a sick survivor from the hook or interact with them you may not get sick if they aren't broken.
Solutions:
She should get double brutality points per hit. When holding corrupt purge she should be 110% speed but 115% with vile purge. Survivors should instantly become sick when interacting with another sick survivor, broken or not. Maybe have gen speed decreased by 5% while fully broken.
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She needs to just go back to how she was in the PTB, She wasn't even that strong PTB anyways to deserve the nerf she got.
Sure in the right hands she can do well, but the same can be said for any mid or even low tier killer. Majority of the time it's on the survivors mistakes to determine how well she does.
She shouldn't be slowed down while holding the vomit, Healing is already taken out of the trial thanks to fountains and as a result the Gens pop very quickly and with her 0 map pressure she just doesn't do well against that.
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I got the adept achievement yesterday after my fith game or so with her.
I play on the purple ranks as killer, only had infectios fright on rank 2 by the time (the rest at 1) and used 2 yellow addons (the on that makes it last longer on gens + another one i cant remember).
I even killed all of the survs in my first game, but it didnt count sadly.
My opinion after like 10 games with her is: she is fine. I had good games with her and not so good games. Just like with every other killer as well. But i had fun each time i played her.
The only thing i would buff is her BP gain, someone mentioned she could gain some BP when a survivor enters the broken state.
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What the hell are you talking about? She is the 4th best killer at moment!
LOL! You are just another stupid survivor main who doesnt know how to play, i'd gladly accept any unecessary buffs to her, but you cant say that she is weak at the current state you ######### CASUAL!
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She doesnt need a buff, she has map preasure and can throw up on everything. Everyone gets sick and she can 1 hit them
Her red puke can 2 hit people if you want and dont have to aim it.
get good dude
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@NoShinyPony "Look at my posts. I'm talking about my preferences. My personal taste, what I prefer to play against."
Yea I never said that you weren't talking about your preferences. I'm making the point that, regardless of which you prefer, there are objective ways to demonstrate whether or not something has counter play and by extension balance. Visual limitation has counter play because you can still act as you normally would. Physical effects have potential for no counter play because it can just happen and the outcome is beyond your control. Hindered status when puking randomly is one such physical effect with no counter play. If you are running from the killer to a pallet, the game can randomly screw you over by making you puke. If you do, then you are screwed over by something beyond your control and beyond your ability to counter play. If you don't then it's just luck, you did nothing special to counter the effects. By contrast, if your view was limited when you puke, you can still make the pallet. However if it's not in a straight line in front of you, and you fail to have awareness of your surroundings, you will make a mistake and walk into a wall or something and get hit. The outcome is entirely in your control, it's just harder to have that control. With Hindered, it's not just harder to have that control it's IMPOSSIBLE. This is the point I'm trying to make. You can prefer one thing over another, but at the end of the day what's healthier for the game is something balanced that offers the player control over their character so they can counter play whatever the thing is that's happening.
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She was in PTB, but the movement speed nerf crippled her
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@Bug_Reporter Carry on child. But thanks to all who gave appropriate feedback. 😎
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"But if we buff Plague she would be too oppressive." -BHVR
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She's fine how she is right now. I'd just say give her 115% movement speed while holding Vile and 110% while holding Corrupt. Most survivors don't want to be injured with a 115% movement speed killer with Enduring and Spirit Fury. I personally think she's around mid-high tier when played correctly.
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That seems fair, since Vile Purge is, at best, a delayed M1, while Corrupted Purge makes her a worse Huntress.
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"She's fine how she is right now." "she's around mid-high tier when played correctly"
These can't go in the same response as they are contradictory. If she's fine then she wouldn't be mid tier and if she's mid tier she isn't fine. Mid tier isn't rank 1 viable. That means you're only winning if the survivors are potatoes.
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Let me ask you something, how do you think Plague could be improved on other than my movement speed proposition? What do you think her downsides and upsides are?
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I think the fountain heal needs to be removed and some kind of extra penalty for staying broken to incentivize using the fountains. In tandem with this they can also increase the amount of puke needed to transition someone into broken. This actually incentivizes her to spread pressure with her plague rather than just tunneling into one guy which is what we have right now. It fits her more thematically and is more fun for both sides.
These changes I think would make her rank 1 viable but still not better than say Spirit and most killers and survivors alike generally consider Spirit as one of the most balanced killers while also being rank 1 viable, so I believe that's a good point to aim for.
Most rank 1's just ignore using fountains which means a very fast gen rush as without healing or going to use fountains she has zero map pressure. Yes now they are all broken and can be one shot, but between the vast amount of pallets available and zero time wasted on healing or going to fountains they have more than enough time to get the gates powered before even 3/4 of the pallets are used.
Now inversely sometime you get a group that does use the fountains. Now you have a discount huntress ability and a tiny bit of time wasted going to fountains, but once again with fountains healing you have no map pressure again which leads to fast gens. This is still a better scenario for you than the first, but not rank 1 viable great.
I honestly don't think she really has much upsides. Her Corrupted Puke if she actually gets it is easier to use than Huntresses but less powerful, that's about it. Having the survivors control if she gets her power isn't a good design idea.
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Okay, what I got from this is that survivors need more incentive to actually cure themselves from the sickness. The pallet issue is more based on the amount of poorly designed maps such as Coldwind and Ormond. A lot of maps need reworks. How would you give survivors more reasons to cure? Action speed debuff? Hindered while vomiting?
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I think map design is at the core of a lot of problems. Unfortunately I don't see them fixing that, so we're left balancing around the assumption we're just stuck with it and have to make it work.
Either a repair speed debuff or maybe a split second animation pause during vomit animations(make it even more dangerous to stay broken as this would make you less able to pallet loop).
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