http://dbd.game/killswitch
Bring Legion’s Double Stun Back To Combat The Third Strike Abuse Tactic
I think this mechanic needs to come back and activate after hitting the same player in feral frenzy for the third time in a row consecutively while deep wounds is applied to them. If you hit them twice, all good, no double stun. You hit them a third time? Double stun. And the survivor’s built in speed boost upon being hit should last twice as long, and disable scratch marks and blood trails for 10 seconds allowing them to finally get away and actually mend instead of robbing them of a chase when there’s little they can do to avoid it.
I don’t like that people DC when I play before I even get a chance to show them I’m going to play fair. It doesn’t happen that often for me, but it’s still disheartening because then I feel bad if I kill the rest of the team.
Im sick and tired of legion being in danger of losing feral frenzy, or being reworked into something boring to play, all because of the people who use feral frenzy only to down them. This will only effect those who don’t actually have enough skill to down the survivor as intended. So if you abuse this strat, learn to use your frontal lobe and git gud before you ruin it for everyone else.
On top of this, Legion’s double stun in total should last 10 seconds. Is this a biased nerf? Nope. I play him right, you strike twice at most and then commit to the 110%. Try to cheese things, and you’ll be punished for being too weak willed to try. I don’t think there’s any reason not to bring this into the game.
I get downs with deep wounds by accident usually when I’m patrolling and I manage to hear someone mending. It happens a lot more then you think, there’s really no reason to moon walk honestly.
I get 4k’s a plenty with legion, I’m rank 3 this season, and I have downed someone with frenzy strikes twice in the past 5 months, and it wasn’t even on purpose the first time. I got lost in the moment and forgot who I was chasing when another strike was needed to keep their meter lower. The second time was out of desperation to keep a flashlight click spammer from leaving. And I don’t take kindly to taunts. It’s the fastest way to get flattened in a match.
Comments
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No.
Short and simple.
Post Scriptum: No.
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A bandaid fix. Legion needs a rework, not nerfs and not buffs. Complete overhaul. Their playstyle and mechanics don't work in this system at all.
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They would work if the moonwalking and blades exploits were fixed.
They're not as bad as everyone wants them to be.
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The problem is how deeply unfun they are to face. Not how balanced they are. (That's an issue too but nothing new)
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See, I enjoy facing them though. It's an actual chase and not just a run around while hopping over pallets. They are one of the only killers I FEAR chases with.
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If the stuns get longer with each consecutive stun/frenzy stab maybe not so drastic but fair at 2nd stab but heavy penalty for 3rd onwards, I play legion as a seek and destroy, tagging people with deep wound then using killer instinct to track others who may be hiding then like you 110% chase and mindgame w/ M&A esp. I seriously think downing with 3 strike is cheese too esp since if this was intended it wouldn't require franks and hounding. A boost to normal speed would be nice and moving frenzy back towards divide and multitracking not downing at all. Maybe some kind of buff to people wounded w/ deep wound like freddys decreased dream world action speed or stat effects if you've been deep wounded for 30s would encourage legion to spread the pain rather than frenzy on 1 guy at a time.
As a side note about using a flashlight/being a flashlight clicker on a legion, it is amusing that people think they can get a blind faster than I can frenzy
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Then you're one of few. Personally I hate getting stabbed and watching them leave. Turns it into mending simulator. Also frustrating in a chase cause unless the killer is very bad at tracking, there's very little chance of you actually managing to escape. And I'd say the extremely high DC rate would back up the notion that most people hate facing them
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What would people change Feral Frenzy to? The ability to look like another Survivor? I think people still wanted such an ability, and it would be pretty interesting if someone played like a decoy survivor up until they shanked you.
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@ClogWench What exactly is so horrible about the mend though, you get tons of bp from it throughout the match if the legion plays fair, gens/healing are basically the same sim but much longer, the screen getting dark is annoying but meant to encourage the mend, pigs helmets are also a distraction tactic, is it purely that you have a 15s mend then heal then potentially get the same again? I guess it might be that you feel it is too easy to get wounded as opposed to chase with another killer? Might also be that once fully healed you're more likely to be found by killer instinct when a less skilled surv gets the initial frenzy hit? I think the weakness w/ 110 movement is made up by the frenzy ease of hits. Also makes up for his lack of true pressure due to base movement speed. How would you rework this without scrapping the method entirely? I actually like frenzy as is, I just think they need to get rid of the cheese legions (aka franks and moonwalk/LOS chases). Legion can be looped and counterplayed people just DC before they get the chance to learn.
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Exactly, Legion doesn't play DbD imo, buffing or nerfing won't change that. Rework is the only solution.
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Why do people always think you need a rework when sidegrades are a thing?
His issues are lack of a skill gap, counter play and his cheese.
All of these issues can be fixed without a rework, it's just a matter of putting them all in the same post.
For example I think he needs to do a half second roar when he enter's frenzy, during which time he looks straight up. That way his not seeing scratch marks weakness actually matters since the survivors can quickly dive for cover and break LoS in the time. Thus adding counterplay. It also means the survivor get's a que of when to drop a pallet if the legion is trying to bait it thus making pallet stuns more probable
A way to add a skill gap would be to prevent using Frenzy on a partial charge (or at least require the bar to be far more filled in order to use) since it would require more thought onto when to use Frenzy instead of it just being mindless. Also we could make vaulting drain the bar partially (10-20% probably) so he needs to be careful about it.
The ways to fix the cheese is to do the above and also either:
A: Make DW not go down in the legions terror radius
Pros: Mostly eliminates Moonwalking, Gives a psudo-whispers as a side effect
Cons: Punishes non-Moonwalkers, makes DW almost impossible to down with if you aren't multi-hitting
or
B: Make DW go down in a chase and increase the timer as necessary
Pros: Makes using 110% in a chase more viable, completely eliminates Moonwalking
Cons: Hard to balance for, Can feel unfair even when balanced (mitigated by the first 2 change suggestions)
From there it just becomes a matter of balance. Adjusting things like frenzy duration, damage, fatigue time ect until he has strength. Unlike things like Skill gap, balance NEVER demands a rework, especially given that Legion has a lot of numbers that can be tweaked.
Also, remove the power drain on M1, it's just stupid.
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This would ruin Legion.
He has to be able to frenzy hit one person multiple times otherwise he's 110% when he wants to down with no chase power.
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why? You and 5 other people like using that tactic? Just not going to explain your reasoning? Why even bother commenting then? It’s not helpful to the discussion at all.
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Dude I get 4k’s without striking someone three times who is ALREADY in deep wounds. You don’t need to frenzy strike someone more than twice before they mend. Smh.
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If there is anything Legion doesn't need it is a straight nerf. He's not Freddy tier, but he's still really weak.
Pair your nerfs with buffs
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I actually just posted a better solution.
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See I WOULDN'T rework it without scrapping it. I really think the entire power needs to be replaced. I don't care about his weakness or strength, the power is inherently unfun and obnoxious to face and unlike regular hits or pigs traps, you end up dealing with it over and over again.
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I actually just made a good post to fix that.
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@NuclearBurrito Wow thank you, glad to see someone actually suggesting things that are useful rather than just complete scrap and work or remove...
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@Kiskashi of course. Asking for a removal is just counter productive as that is never going to happen and as a dev I would never do that. And asking for a rework is the equivalent of giving up (and also takes longer and is less likely to be added compared to the alternative).
Just because he as serious issues doesn't mean they are unfixable.
Mending times can be shortened and given skill checks, Frenzy speed can be modified and so can it's duration, bleed out speed can be increased or decreased, Franks Mixtape can be nerfed, ect ect ect
DO NOT CRY REWORK LIGHTLY PEOPLE!
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It’s not a nerf. It’s only a nerf if you play like a simpleton and follow the same survivor around repeatedly striking them with feral frenzy until they go down. It’s not fair for the survivor and I get 4k’s often at red ranks without using such a tactic.
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"it's not a nerf"
"it's a nerf to these people"
Contradiction.
It is absolutely a nerf. Especially if it's 10 seconds, that's WAY too long.
"Simpletons" use that strategy for a reason, the alternative strategy's while more effective are also far harder for anyone who isn't a legion main to actually pull off. It's like saying Nurse exists thus Killers are fine.
And even then the better strategy's are still inferior to the majority of Killer's.
Legion is underpowered right now. Not because 4k's are impossible. Not because 4 stabs. It's a combonation of things. But either way right now he doesn't have a huge amount of Killing potential compared to other Killers (who already are lacking).
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@NuclearBurrito It’s not really a contradiction as it’s more of a trade off that’s negated the moment you stop harassing the same person with three or more frenzy strikes.
The double stun only applies if you double strike a victim, get stunned, then use frenzy again and strike them again, causing the double stun as a trade off for putting their timer critically low that way. This only applies if they have the deep wounds effect. So if they mend it resets.
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Then buff alternative strategy's (in addition to something along the lines of the OP)
Sidegrades are the key. Don't nerf, and don't JUST buff, transfer power from one strategy to another. That means buffing alternative strategy's as much as it does nerfing problematic ones.
If you just nerf legions problematic strategy's without buffing his alternative strategy's then he is left with almost nothing to work with.
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Well for starters his movement speed could increase to 115% when his power gauge is full.
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You cannot fault a killer for using their power, you wouldn't flame a Nurse for blinking, or a Trapper for using his traps. The issue isn't you getting stabbed over and over, because you get a speed boost every time, he gets stunned with every FF stab after the first, and it extends the chase.
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If he’s fine then why do so many people have a problem with him? I’m generally trying to figure out why there’s such a large divide on this. He’s not even as bad to play against as people make him out to be.
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Legions primary issue is his mostly non-existent skill gap. The difference between the best legion player and a noob legion player is that a good legion player has better killer fundumentals. And not some inherent skill with the power unlike Spirit, Nurse and even Billy
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I agree 100%. I think my discipline (or self induced torture) of playing legion and pig without any perks has vastly improved my basic killer behavior and mannerisms to approaching different situations. This change may not help much at all. I would like to see legion be given a skill gap.
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